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The Robert Mueller Investigation


Hugo Stiglitz

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11 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Smarter politicians know how to run this stuff through their lawyer screens. 

 

Maybe later in the process they insert it into the surveillance apparatus. 

I think this is also true.  but politics is not always organized crime.  I think from time to time politicians do unlawful shit but they are not in a business defined by breaking the law.

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9 minutes ago, Enchubben said:

I get that today was disappointing for you, but maybe take a deep breath and a small break. 

Disappointing?  Maybe, but not in the way you think.  The Mueller Report makes clear the President knew of a criminal conspiracy against the US, knew he would benefit from it, did nothing to stop it, and actively covered it up.  That is VERY disappointing.  And gaslighting shit-for-brains like yourself who don’t recognize the danger of those facts to our Republic or who don’t care can fuck right off.

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3 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

It’s never a pretty thing when willful delusions break down. Do the prague thing again bitch. 

You're still going to stick with the "delusion" bit?

You know, calling someone delusional is equivalent to calling them crazy. I don't know you in the wild but you seem to have alluded a few times to having experience in the realm of either psychiatry or psychology and should know the definition of the term "gaslighting."

Your labeling posters as "delusional" for suspecting that the Trump campaign somehow coordinated/collaborated/conspired/colluded/cooperated or whatever with the Russian government based on all the publicly available evidence about shady ties (and lying about them) can very easily be interpreted as "gaslighting," especially within the context of you consistently pointing out a single data point (i.e. Prague) which appears to have been incorrect while also refusing to address all the other incidents that seem to have been confirmed.

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1 hour ago, troph said:

it's a daming report on many levels.  we should be at war with Russia (we might be cyber wise) but we need to scream from the rooftops that your social media is infected.  the social media portion of the report is pretty eye opening.  like this gem:

 

The IRA organized and promoted political rallies inside the United States while posing as U.S . grassroots activists. First, the IRA used one of its preexisting social media personas (Facebook groups and Twitter accounts, for example) to announce and promote the event. The IRA then sent a large number of direct messages to followers of its social media account asking them to attend the event. From those who responded with interest in attending , the IRA then sought a U.S. person to serve as the event's coordinator. In most cases, the IRA account operator would tell the U.S . person that they personally could not attend the event due to some preexisting conflict or because they were somewhere else in the United States.82 The IRA then further promoted the event by contacting U.S. media about the event and directing them to speak with the coordinator. 83 After the event, the IRA posted videos and photographs of the event to the IRA 's social media accounts. 84

 

The report goes on to highlight a few.  the sophistication of the Russians is quite impressive and their ability to stir dissention and activate Trump support is outright alarming.

We have influenced elections to suit our purposes all over the globe for more than a century- most prominent recent example is Israel in 2015 backing the Zionist Union over Likud. Should they have declared war on us? Get back at Russia by fucking up their relationship with Syria and Iran. You have to begrudgingly tip your cap at them for riling us up. Don’t let it happen again and warn them privately that we’re going to fuck their shit up if they do.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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19 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

This isn’t your father’s GOP anymore.

Finally something I agree with you about.  You say it like its a good thing when in reality the GOP has lost all its morals and principals for a dear leader so devoid of any decency it’s staggering.  My father would have never tolerated this banana republic bullshit that Trump is responsible for that you and your friends just lap right up off the sacks of Hannity and his ilk. 

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11 minutes ago, bolverk said:

You're still going to stick with the "delusion" bit?

You know, calling someone delusional is equivalent to calling them crazy. I don't know you in the wild but you seem to have alluded a few times to having experience in the realm of either psychiatry or psychology and should know the definition of the term "gaslighting."

Your labeling posters as "delusional" for suspecting that the Trump campaign somehow coordinated/collaborated/conspired/colluded/cooperated or whatever with the Russian government based on all the publicly available evidence about shady ties (and lying about them) can very easily be interpreted as "gaslighting," especially within the context of you consistently pointing out a single data point (i.e. Prague) which appears to have been incorrect while also refusing to address all the other incidents that seem to have been confirmed.

He's gone off the rails and destroyed any and all goodwill, not to mention perceptions of objectivity around here.  Fuck him.

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16 minutes ago, troph said:

I think this is also true.  but politics is not always organized crime.  I think from time to time politicians do unlawful shit but they are not in a business defined by breaking the law.

Know how I know that you are an exceptionally smart lawyer. 

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the cohen and Papadopoulos paragraphs are pretty interesting - despite repeated attempts to conspire by the Russians and after lying to congress, etc. - it just didn't happen.  I think the cohen excuse is Trump lied about the Trump Moscow tower continuing while the primaries were going on.  but the emails from Russia were explicit about the campaign benefits.  Papadopoulos was about Hillary dirt and repeated attempts to coordinate but it didn't happen.  both of them got in deep trouble for lying.

it's just odd.

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Just now, Anastasis said:

 Know how I know that you are an exceptionally smart lawyer. 

lol.

I don't think it's a huge leap to conclude Trump - the casino man, the Brooklyn boy, and the guy not afraid to do "legit" business with Russian organized crime is well, a crime boss, or at least operates with similar principles.

 

the real dirt is going to be the RICO shit.  no way his organization isn't involved in hard core financial crimes at this point.

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11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Oh, it was far from disappointing.

Oh no, it was terribly disappointing. It’s one thing to consider the corruption of the Trump administration via conspiracy-tinged tweets and trying to connect the blurry dots. It’s another thing entirely to see the depths of Trump’s corruption meticulously described in an official government document. It’s real now. There’s a certain mourning and grief that goes along with the much more clear reality now. This is a sad, sad day for anyone not playing team politics.

The bits about Trump’s attempts to break the law being undermined by his people should be horrifying to all of us.

“The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests,”

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44 minutes ago, Michael Knight said:

What elections do you think Russia has?

Well they used to have them.  Ya know, because Bill Clinton literally bought and paid to keep Yeltsin as the Russian president.  Dude's numbers were completely in the tank.  Everyone knew he was going to get crushed.  Then ol' Slick Willy stepped in with a boatload of cash so Yeltsin could start paying people off and, wow, he magically won by a narrow margin!

That's not a foreign intelligence agency spreading shit on the internet for the rubes to lap up and maybe change their opinion.  That's the leader of a foreign power outright buying off your election.  But we should "go to war" over this shit when the Russians didn't over that shit back in '96? 

In fact, it can easily be argued that our current predicament with Russia is just yet another consequence of our awful foreign policy of meddling everywhere we can stick our dirty fingers.  The list of democracies where we've come in, fucked shit up, installed a dictator, and then bailed is long as fuck.  Russia probably falls into that camp.  We broke them in the Cold War, then we started fucking around in their elections, but instead of getting our guy in there and keeping him there we opened the door for a ruthless fuck like Putin to take over.  He, naturally, doesn't have many fond feelings for us and our hypocrisy.  So tit for fucking tat.  If we were in his position we'd be doing the exact same fucking thing.

Acting aggrieved and indignant is fucking stupid.  This is how the game is played.  We're fucking morons who are glued to our phones 24/7 and believe any crap spewed in the media or online that justifies our own warped ideologies and prejudices.  It bit us in the ass.  The only proper response is to nail Zuckerberg and his ilk to the wall and to be more vigilant about this type of shit.  I'd say we should also learn to stop giving a fuck about what we see in the media and online and not let it work us into a frenzy, but yeah, we all know that ain't gonna happen. 

The problem is us, not Russia.  Those crazy fucks are sitting on an ever shrinking economic island, have zero pull on the globe at large, and are rapidly killing themselves through alcohol poisoning, injecting gasoline into their veins, and falling off of tall buildings.  They're probably stunned their little stunt worked as well as it did.  Just like Osama was probably stunned he was able to pull off the largest terrorist attack in history with a few dumb fucks with box cutters because pilots didn't bother to lock the cockpit door.  If our country wasn't such a dysfunctional mess filled with easily led simpletons this "informational warfare" would have been a laughable joke.

 

 

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I would assume that the real response to Russian interference is going on behind closed doors in places like Fort Meade.
The social media interference I don't know how you handle.  That's more of a function of American stupidity than Russian cunning.

Verification would be a first step. Flag sources from outside the country and add filtering options not just to block, but to week out. Lastly seek out and terminate all political speech on social platforms. Facebook is for sharing photos of kids to far away family, not for engaging 3rd cousins on the merits of single payer health care.
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2 minutes ago, TexEx15 said:

Finally something I agree with you about.  You say it like its a good thing when in reality the GOP has lost all its morals and principals for a dear leader so devoid of any decency it’s staggering.  My father would have never tolerated this banana republic bullshit that Trump is responsible for that you and your friends just lap right up off the sacks of Hannity and his ilk. 

I dunno, man. Your dad could've gone down the same path as mine.

My 81-year-old dad has devolved from a Goldwater/Reagan Republican, who constantly harangued about East Texas Yellow Dog Democrats that'd support the Devil before a Republican, has become increasingly radicalized and the very thing he once detested. Over Thanksgiving, I heard him tell my niece that you should vote for "The Party" instead of the candidate. It's all thanks to the slavish devotion and (quite frankly) addiction to Fox News that he's developed in his retirement.

Again, I dunno, but this "The Party" shit sounds distinctly like totalitarian indoctrination to my ears.

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

Where, exactly, do you think removing redactions is going to provide some goldmine of new information about your second sentence?

I mean, I was told on this thread that all the good stuff would be redacted, but not once in reading it did I say "oh shit, a redaction, this was getting good."

Well since it was redacted how would you know what it says and whether it’s good or not?

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16 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

He's gone off the rails and destroyed any and all goodwill, not to mention perceptions of objectivity around here.  Fuck him.

Because he doesn’t toe the party line here I guess. All of us who don’t get branded as being dishonest, stupid, etc. The go to insults are the same. Shocking that this place is an echo chamber except for a few of us willing to spar with y’all.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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What happened to your Dick Cheney avatar?


I’m still thinking about who personifies the American Swindle these days.

Hmm?......What morally bankrupt politician that uses the guise of government to trample on the inalienable rights of the people, in public says one thing but in private does the opposite, has zero principles whatsoever, lacks total empathy for human life, and enriches themselves and their friends by doling out our tax dollars to endless boondoggles and crony capitalist ventures?

What are your top candidates? Any recommendations?
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4 hours ago, Enchubben said:

 

They forgot to put "GOP"  in front of the House and Senate investigations.   The ones where they refused to call witnesses or subpoena evidence that the Democrats asked for.  But if you want to spread old people Facebook posts,  OK.

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4 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Because he doesn’t toe the party line here I guess. All of us who don’t get branded as being dishonest, stupid, etc. The go to insults are the same. Shocking that this place is an echo chamber except for a few of us willing to spa with y’all.

Sorry, dude, but I won't ever be willing to "spa" with you.

(Yes, I know it was a typo but low hanging fruit and all.)

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12 minutes ago, SpiralOut said:

Well they used to have them.  Ya know, because Bill Clinton literally bought and paid to keep Yeltsin as the Russian president.  Dude's numbers were completely in the tank.  Everyone knew he was going to get crushed.  Then ol' Slick Willy stepped in with a boatload of cash so Yeltsin could start paying people off and, wow, he magically won by a narrow margin!

That's not a foreign intelligence agency spreading shit on the internet for the rubes to lap up and maybe change their opinion.  That's the leader of a foreign power outright buying off your election.  But we should "go to war" over this shit when the Russians didn't over that shit back in '96? 

In fact, it can easily be argued that our current predicament with Russia is just yet another consequence of our awful foreign policy of meddling everywhere we can stick our dirty fingers.  The list of democracies where we've come in, fucked shit up, installed a dictator, and then bailed is long as fuck.  Russia probably falls into that camp.  We broke them in the Cold War, then we started fucking around in their elections, but instead of getting our guy in there and keeping him there we opened the door for a ruthless fuck like Putin to take over.  He, naturally, doesn't have many fond feelings for us and our hypocrisy.  So tit for fucking tat.  If we were in his position we'd be doing the exact same fucking thing.

Acting aggrieved and indignant is fucking stupid.  This is how the game is played.  We're fucking morons who are glued to our phones 24/7 and believe any crap spewed in the media or online that justifies our own warped ideologies and prejudices.  It bit us in the ass.  The only proper response is to nail Zuckerberg and his ilk to the wall and to be more vigilant about this type of shit.  I'd say we should also learn to stop giving a fuck about what we see in the media and online and not let it work us into a frenzy, but yeah, we all know that ain't gonna happen. 

The problem is us, not Russia.  Those crazy fucks are sitting on an ever shrinking economic island, have zero pull on the globe at large, and are rapidly killing themselves through alcohol poisoning, injecting gasoline into their veins, and falling off of tall buildings.  They're probably stunned their little stunt worked as well as it did.  Just like Osama was probably stunned he was able to pull off the largest terrorist attack in history with a few dumb fucks with box cutters because pilots didn't bother to lock the cockpit door.  If our country wasn't such a dysfunctional mess filled with easily led simpletons this "informational warfare" would have been a laughable joke.

 

 

Pos rep if I had any left 

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Republicans gloating about the Mueller Report is pretty amazing.

Yeah, your boy's off the hook for collusion.  But obstruction is wide open.  The man did everything he could to slow this investigation down, and that is exactly what sank Nixon.

And this is the fucking redacted version...

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34 minutes ago, BrickHorn said:

Disappointing?  Maybe, but not in the way you think.  The Mueller Report makes clear the President knew of a criminal conspiracy against the US, knew he would benefit from it, did nothing to stop it, and actively covered it up.  That is VERY disappointing.  And gaslighting shit-for-brains like yourself who don’t recognize the danger of those facts to our Republic or who don’t care can fuck right off.

I don’t think calling out those last two posts of yours is gaslighting, but you do you. Childish name calling and telling people to fuck off is maybe not the best way to get your point across though. Sweet dreams young prince.

Edited by Enchubben
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Well they used to have them.  Ya know, because Bill Clinton literally bought and paid to keep Yeltsin as the Russian president.  Dude's numbers were completely in the tank.  Everyone knew he was going to get crushed.  Then ol' Slick Willy stepped in with a boatload of cash so Yeltsin could start paying people off and, wow, he magically won by a narrow margin!
That's not a foreign intelligence agency spreading shit on the internet for the rubes to lap up and maybe change their opinion.  That's the leader of a foreign power outright buying off your election.  But we should "go to war" over this shit when the Russians didn't over that shit back in '96? 
In fact, it can easily be argued that our current predicament with Russia is just yet another consequence of our awful foreign policy of meddling everywhere we can stick our dirty fingers.  The list of democracies where we've come in, fucked shit up, installed a dictator, and then bailed is long as fuck.  Russia probably falls into that camp.  We broke them in the Cold War, then we started fucking around in their elections, but instead of getting our guy in there and keeping him there we opened the door for a ruthless fuck like Putin to take over.  He, naturally, doesn't have many fond feelings for us and our hypocrisy.  So tit for fucking tat.  If we were in his position we'd be doing the exact same fucking thing.
Acting aggrieved and indignant is fucking stupid.  This is how the game is played.  We're fucking morons who are glued to our phones 24/7 and believe any crap spewed in the media or online that justifies our own warped ideologies and prejudices.  It bit us in the ass.  The only proper response is to nail Zuckerberg and his ilk to the wall and to be more vigilant about this type of shit.  I'd say we should also learn to stop giving a fuck about what we see in the media and online and not let it work us into a frenzy, but yeah, we all know that ain't gonna happen. 
The problem is us, not Russia.  Those crazy fucks are sitting on an ever shrinking economic island, have zero pull on the globe at large, and are rapidly killing themselves through alcohol poisoning, injecting gasoline into their veins, and falling off of tall buildings.  They're probably stunned their little stunt worked as well as it did.  Just like Osama was probably stunned he was able to pull off the largest terrorist attack in history with a few dumb fucks with box cutters because pilots didn't bother to lock the cockpit door.  If our country wasn't such a dysfunctional mess filled with easily led simpletons this "informational warfare" would have been a laughable joke.
 
 



Which makes me wonder why we don’t follow the path that ended the Cold War: diplomacy.

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https://nypost.com/2019/04/18/mueller-completely-dropped-the-ball-with-obstruction-punt/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

“Most important, the special counsel found that there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, and that the president’s frustration wasn’t over fear of guilt — the typical motivation for obstruction — but that the investigation was undermining his ability to govern the country. The existence of such a motive is a strong counter to evidence of a corrupt intent, critical because corrupt intent must be proved beyond a reasonable doubt in an obstruction case.

This is exactly why prosecutors should never speak publicly about the evidence uncovered in an investigation of someone who isn’t charged.

In his report, Mueller didn’t resolve the issue. If he had been satisfied that there was no obstruction crime, he said, he would have so found. He claimed he wasn’t satisfied. Yet he was also not convinced that there was sufficient proof to charge. Therefore, he made no decision, leaving it to Attorney General William Barr to find that there was no obstruction.

This is unbecoming behavior for a prosecutor and an outrageous shifting of the burden of proof: The constitutional right of every American to force the government to prove a crime has been committed, rather than to have to prove his or her own innocence.

This is exactly why prosecutors should never speak publicly about the evidence uncovered in an investigation of someone who isn’t charged. The obligation of the prosecutor is to render a judgment about whether there is enough proof to charge a crime. If there is, the prosecutor indicts; if there is not, the prosecutor remains silent.”

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the report makes it crystal clear the Russians wanted Trump in office and they bent over backward especially with Cohen and Papadopoulos to try and conspire and to assist.  independently they were all over social media to the point of organizing, promoting and conducting rallies to support Trump.  While Trump campaign may not have accepted these offers, he didn't do what was the politically appropriate thing - to report the interference to the FBI.  While apparently not a crime or at least not a crime that can be substantiated with available evidence (see my posts about organized crime techniques above), it's clear the Trump campaign was still politically shady as shit, and not "but the Clintons" the guy tacitly accepted the help of the Russians, and the modern version of the KGB.  what a world we now live in.  wow.

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1 minute ago, TexArcher said:

Republicans gloating about the Mueller Report is pretty amazing.

Yeah, your boy's off the hook for collusion.  But obstruction is wide open.  The man did everything he could to slow this investigation down, and that is exactly what sank Nixon.

john dean was just on cnn saying this was way worse than anything nixon did.  but what does he know.

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5 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

Pos rep if I had any left 

You know, he's also probably citing the coup and subsequent installation of the Shah in his rant too where we fucked over a duly elected president in a country you're quite familiar with.

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1 minute ago, henrygandorf said:

john dean was just on cnn saying this was way worse than anything nixon did.  but what does he know.

John Dean has been great throughout this whole ordeal.  But I'm sure Fox News hasn't had the journalistic integrity to have him on, so the people who need to hear him haven't.

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6 minutes ago, American Swindle said:

 

 


Which makes me wonder why we don’t follow the path that ended the Cold War: diplomacy.
 

 

 

We did try. That's what the "reset button" was supposed to be about, but Putin don't play those games.

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10 minutes ago, TexArcher said:

Republicans gloating about the Mueller Report is pretty amazing.

Yeah, your boy's off the hook for collusion.  But obstruction is wide open.  The man did everything he could to slow this investigation down, and that is exactly what sank Nixon.

And this is the fucking redacted version...

We learned our lesson from Nixon. The man would be a liberal hero today for creating the EPA, affirmative action and going to China. It doesn’t matter to Dems, our Presidents are cold-hearted baby killers or spoofed as morons. Once a Republican President dies, the press then does an about face by saying they were so much more reasonable than the current crop. Playing nice so y’all will hopefully like us is dead. McCain and Romney tried to peddle the centrist, let’s try to please the editors of the NYT bs. That didn’t excite me or the base. Trump is giving us what we have wanted.

Edited by Iconoclast Texan
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You weren’t watching Martha MacCallum earlier. Our gloves are off. We’re defending our President. This isn’t your father’s GOP anymore.
 

You are correct. They welcomed immigrants, were educated, and respected the men and women who serve this country, and they were committed to defending and expanding American influence.

Now they are party over country morons who fantasize about shooting families, violate the norms of good governance, turn a blind eye in support of nepotism and graft, ally themselves with frauds, willingly became useful idiots, because the fraud doesn’t treat you like the morons you are. You pussies cowered from the Turks, Norks, Chinese and Russians. You were abused like a Baylor coed and you like it.

She is a dumb whore no different than a jerry springer guest. You confuse decorum and respect for weakness.
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29 minutes ago, JimmyJames said:

Well since it was redacted how would you know what it says and whether it’s good or not?

If you read the report, it's pretty easy to tell if critical information were left out.  Just as you can make educated guesses what material was redacted and why.

There are few instances of "In addition to the foregoing, President Trump __________________________________-donkey, prostitute ______________________________ urinated and ___________________________________ with ___________________________________________,

I suspect he's just repeating the talking point that "Barr's gonna hide all the good shit."

Edited by TwiceHorn
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8 minutes ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

McCain and Romney tried to peddle the centrist, I’m a reasonable same please like me NYT editors shit. That didn’t excite me or the base. Trump is giving us what we have wanted.

I would assume marks usually don't want to be conned.  They just can't spot it and therefore can't prevent it.

You're saying that you want to be conned.  I don't know what the term is for that.  Masochists?  Idiots who should be sterilized?

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12 minutes ago, bolverk said:

You know, he's also probably citing the coup and subsequent installation of the Shah in his rant too where we fucked over a duly elected president in a country you're quite familiar with.

I’m sure he is. Mossadeq was a secular nationalist. The mullahs would have never grabbed power but for that awful mistake by the CIA,

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