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Formula 1 2021


wood

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2 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Interesting tidbit I heard post race, maybe they talked about it before. Apparently they painted some white lines on the track after Qualifying, and it got on the red Bull tires that were designated to start the race. The appealed and were granted the ability to start on brand new reds instead of the tires from Q2. (Instant advantage over Hamilton)

I didn't hear that before the race. Interesting. I think the correct decision.

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3 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Interesting tidbit I heard post race, maybe they talked about it before. Apparently they painted some white lines on the track after Qualifying, and it got on the red Bull tires that were designated to start the race. The appealed and were granted the ability to start on brand new reds instead of the tires from Q2. (Instant advantage over Hamilton)

The sky broadcast said he started on a different pair of used softs, not brand new ones. It probably gave him a slight advantage but not a huge difference. 

Edited by Burt Macklin
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3 hours ago, PittsburghTiger said:

I really hope Max and Sergio can continue the fight. 

All any of us have wanted is more competition. It was boring as fuck watching Hamilton, in one of the greatest cars ever, constantly win. Yes, the other teams have been morons through much of this stretch but, the Mercedes was too powerful.

I don't think they've been morons. Merc has the biggest budget & had a big head start on this PU. Everyone else was playing catch-up from day one, with a token system & no in-season testing, which severely restricted their ability to make up any ground.

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3 hours ago, ChickenSandwich said:

Interesting tidbit I heard post race, maybe they talked about it before. Apparently they painted some white lines on the track after Qualifying, and it got on the red Bull tires that were designated to start the race. The appealed and were granted the ability to start on brand new reds instead of the tires from Q2. (Instant advantage over Hamilton)

Ted said they were told they started on used Softs in similar condition, not new ones.

ETA: Or, you know, what Burt Macklin said.

Edited by wood
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3 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Aren’t they the tire supplier basically by default because no one else would do it?

Pretty much. Michelin said they'd do it if they'd be allowed to build quality racing tires, & iirc they also wanted the tires to be low-profile. That didn't fly, but now we're going to low-profile tires soon with Pirelli as the manufacturer. It's F1, so of course this makes sense to someone there in some weird way.

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Wow.

That was a crazy race.  ]

It looked like everything was breaking Lewis' way, which seems like an every-week kind of thing even though I know Lewis and Merc earn it by just being that good.  But then, then... even Lewis got hit with a huge bad break.  Wild, weird, crazy stuff. :)

Felt happy for Checo, Gasly, and Fred (what a re-start!).  And, strangely, i also felt happy or Seb.  Which makes me feel a little dirty for some reason... 

 

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1 hour ago, utee94 said:

Wow.

That was a crazy race.  ]

It looked like everything was breaking Lewis' way, which seems like an every-week kind of thing even though I know Lewis and Merc earn it by just being that good.  But then, then... even Lewis got hit with a huge bad break.  Wild, weird, crazy stuff. :)

Felt happy for Checo, Gasly, and Fred (what a re-start!).  And, strangely, i also felt happy or Seb.  Which makes me feel a little dirty for some reason... 

 

Yep. Fred was filthy on every start/restart today. He's starting to get more comfortable, and it shows. So much for the talk going around that he's "past it", "too old", etc. Here's the last one...

And yeah, great top 6 today. Nando, Lando, Perez, Gasly, Leclerc ... even Vettel! And got damn, those ATs are quick as shit.

 

Edited by wood
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5 hours ago, wood said:

I don't think they've been morons. Merc has the biggest budget & had a big head start on this PU. Everyone else was playing catch-up from day one, with a token system & no in-season testing, which severely restricted their ability to make up any ground.

I guess I'm just thinking about how many times Ferrari fucked up any chances they had the past four seasons or so.

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2 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:
On 6/5/2021 at 4:18 PM, Goofyboy said:

Really?? Max has matured a whole lot. He’s more patient on the track than he was when he first hit Red Bull. I’m not a fan of his, but he has improved a ton.

Yeah, he's not punching other drivers anymore.

Right?  I mean, ya gotta start somewhere!!! :)

 

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10 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm coming around to Max. Felt awful for him today.

I don't love the guy.  I love Ricciardo and hated how things went down at RBR between the two.  But ultimately that was on the team, it was on Horner, and Max just wants to race.  He's still a whiney ahole some of the time but he's getting better and he's only 23 and I can forgive at least a bit of it.  He's a true competitor and I felt bad for him today, too.  That was absolutely his race, and the tires let him down.

 

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I don't love the guy.  I love Ricciardo and hated how things went down at RBR between the two.  But ultimately that was on the team, it was on Horner, and Max just wants to race.  He's still a whiney ahole some of the time but he's getting better and he's only 23 and I can forgive at least a bit of it.  He's a true competitor and I felt bad for him today, too.  That was absolutely his race, and the tires let him down.
 
I love Danny, too. But he and Max are still close. Max tweeted out today that they share a jet on race weekends and that they are close friends away from racing.
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7 hours ago, Chewbacca said:

I'm coming around to Max. Felt awful for him today.

That shot of him kicking the blown-out Pirelli before walking away from the car is just priceless. At what point does Pirelli just cut their losses and gtfo of F1?

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So what's the deal with the blame on Pirelli.  They officially issued guidance on the longevity of the tires?  Trying to see where their actual logical liability on this lies. 

Also where does AWS get the estimates of the "tire performance %" that they show during the race?  I assume they use thermal cameras from the cars, and then measure deg by cumulative heat put into the tires.  That seems like the only way to ball park the wear corner by corner.  Theoretically they could use cornering telemetry (braking, accel, speed through left/right curves) to estimate the wear, but that seems like a wayyyy muddier equation.

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17 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

So what's the deal with the blame on Pirelli.  They officially issued guidance on the longevity of the tires?  Trying to see where their actual logical liability on this lies. 

Also where does AWS get the estimates of the "tire performance %" that they show during the race?  I assume they use thermal cameras from the cars, and then measure deg by cumulative heat put into the tires.  That seems like the only way to ball park the wear corner by corner.  Theoretically they could use cornering telemetry (braking, accel, speed through left/right curves) to estimate the wear, but that seems like a wayyyy muddier equation.

The AWS stuff seems a lot like complete bullshit or guesswork at best imho. No way the teams are letting them see their telemetry imho. 

Re: Pirelli, it's not just this incident. It's a pattern of problems across several years. No doubt they're working out how to put it on the teams, blaming them somehow, or maybe they already have. Remember, too, that these new tires were specifically redesigned to hold up better and avoid this kind of problem, which is why they're heavier than before.

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53 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

So what's the deal with the blame on Pirelli.  They officially issued guidance on the longevity of the tires?

Pirelli chose those tires as the hard for this race.  On many other tracks it's a soft tire.  Pirelli issued a life of 40 laps.  The tires failed 75-80% into the stated life.

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1 hour ago, VABuckeye said:

Pirelli chose those tires as the hard for this race.  On many other tracks it's a soft tire.  Pirelli issued a life of 40 laps.  The tires failed 75-80% into the stated life.

Yep, and the 'life' of the tire should just denote how long they'll last before falling off the performance cliff in terms of grip & traction. They shouldn't just come apart when that effective life is over, much less before it's even over.

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AWS actually gave a glimpse of how they compute these things.  a little surprised but not.

 

https://aws.amazon.com/f1/

 

Tyre Performance

Using car data, namely car speed, longitudinal and lateral accelerations, and the Gyro, we are able to build an estimation of slip angles and then derive vehicle balance models for each car. This gives an output of tyre wear energy. (Note: tyre wear energy is not physical tyre wear but instead the energy transfer of the tyre contact patch sliding across the road surface.) The output gives us a tyre performance for each corner, which indicates how much the tyre has been used with respect to its ultimate performance life.

 

Wow so it really is the load put into the tires from car dynamics.  I assumed just measuring heat cycles and accumulation would be much simpler

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7 hours ago, wood said:

That shot of him kicking the blown-out Pirelli before walking away from the car is just priceless. At what point does Pirelli just cut their losses and gtfo of F1?

I was really hoping that he would flip the tires the bird rather than making an ineffectual kick at them. 

I still giggle when thinking of this Will Power spazout a while ago. 

 

 

GreedyGeneralKusimanse-small.gif

Edited by Prepuce of Doom
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I don't think you have to hate Lewis to root for a departure from the same old thing.

But ...

Quote

FormulaShorts
10.4K subscribers


Here is a visual representation of (most) F1 fans when we saw Mercedes F1 driver, Lewis Hamilton go straight on at turn 1. The effect on the championship this had was crucial to keeping it a close and tight fight. (this isn't an actual reaction)

 

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36 minutes ago, Mr. Drummond said:

that Youtube clip is an old soccer (i think world cup) video.  Not really from this weekend.

Yep. That bit I quoted above is from the youtube page. Says it's not real at the end...

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AMuS: 2nd US race possible in 2021, at Indy or COTA...

- 2nd US race possible in 2021, at Indy or COTA...

-Istanbul, Sepang and Shanghai are potential replacements for Singapore and if needed Suzuka

-If the Olympics are happening F1 has a chance in Suzuka

-If Sao Paulo isnt happening potential replacements are a 2nd Austin, Indy or Sakhir. Qatar is mentioned too.

-no discussions with Germany

-Melbourne wants the race to happen, but the gvt is cautious. However a 2nd race on the Bend in Adelaide is also talked about

 

https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-1/gp-singapur-2021-abgesagt-corona/

Edited by wood
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Regardless of any specifics, why would you be surprised that a lot of fans of any competition react like that when the competitor who has dominated for a decade or so has that happen? That's fairly common across the sports world. 

 

Specifics meaning that it's fake. But the top dog getting knocked off is always cheered. Which is why that meme was applied. 

Edited by Huckleberry
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On 6/8/2021 at 9:48 AM, wood said:

AMuS: 2nd US race possible in 2021, at Indy or COTA...

- 2nd US race possible in 2021, at Indy or COTA...

Someone spruce Road America up a little and have the second one there plz. I don't care that it's in the middle of nowhere.

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With O’Ward winning yesterday’s race, I believe he’s now 1st in driver standings for Indycar. It would be awesome to see him get a legit shot at F1. I know he did a little bit of F2 and some other stuff, but he wasn’t given enough time to really shine there. 
 

While he’s not from America, his IndyCar fame would probably really help with the American market and he could keep the Mexican representation once Checo leaves. 
 

It would also be good to start showing there are other avenues to get into F1. The feeder series is way too expensive right now and shrinks the potential talent pool way too much. 

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