UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate

[Js1 82363]

Yeah, we are in the tier right under the 5 "historical" bluebloods. 

UCLA is still there.  Sure they haven't won a title in almost 30 years, but they also have 4 Final Fours since that title in 1995, a runner up finish in 1996 and 5 Elite Eights. 

Indiana hasn't been to the Final Four since 2002 (runner up finish) or past the Elite Eight since 2002. 

UNC, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UCLA is tier 1
Texas, Indiana, UH, UConn, Villanova are a step below, but Texas is probably towards the bottom of that second tier (still top 10) 

I would not put us #1 in that second tier, compared to a UConn (2011/2014 titles) or UH (2021 Elite 8, 2022 Final Four) or Villanova (2016 and 2018 titles, 2022 Final Four) considering we havent made the Elite 8 since 2008.  

 

Texas has the potential, but not the history of titles or recent NCAA runs. 

[Doc Daneeka 6768]

By the time Beard retires, Texas could be top ten in titles with momentum and in a recruiting hotbed. 

It’s not exactly the same because Texas has had flashes and success in other sports, but it could be in the ballpark of Bowden’s planting a program on the national stage. 

He’ll be hard to replace. 

[CheesePie 230]

15 minutes ago, Js1 said:

 

UNC, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UCLA is tier 1
Texas, Indiana, UH, UConn, Villanova are a step below, but Texas is probably towards the bottom of that second tier (still top 10) 

I would not put us #1 in that second tier, compared to a UConn (2011/2014 titles) or UH (2021 Elite 8, 2022 Final Four) or Villanova (2016 and 2018 titles, 2022 Final Four) considering we havent made the Elite 8 since 2008.

The Texas job has more similarities to Ohio State & Florida than to the basketball centric schools you grouped us with above. Some coaches prefer the smaller, basketball focused schools. Not having to compete with football is appealing if you’re ok with the magnified attention.
 

On paper, Texas is amongst the best of the non-blue bloods. But certain types of coaches will never come here (jay wright) due to being second fiddle in the athletics department.

[Underdog 27966]

1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Yeah, we are in the tier right under the 5 "historical" bluebloods. 

UCLA is still there.  Sure they haven't won a title in almost 30 years, but they also have 4 Final Fours since that title in 1995, a runner up finish in 1996 and 5 Elite Eights. 

Indiana hasn't been to the Final Four since 2002 (runner up finish) or past the Elite Eight since 2002. 

UNC, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UCLA is tier 1
Texas, Indiana, UH, UConn, Villanova are a step below, but Texas is probably towards the bottom of that second tier (still top 10) 

I would not put us #1 in that second tier, compared to a UConn (2011/2014 titles) or UH (2021 Elite 8, 2022 Final Four) or Villanova (2016 and 2018 titles, 2022 Final Four) considering we havent made the Elite 8 since 2008.  

 

Texas has the potential, but not the history of titles or recent NCAA runs. 

Jimmy B would like for you to stand out by the highway when he’s driving home tonight.  
 

 

I know you meant 2006. 

[Js1 82363]

1 hour ago, CheesePie said:

The Texas job has more similarities to Ohio State & Florida than to the basketball centric schools you grouped us with above. Some coaches prefer the smaller, basketball focused schools. Not having to compete with football is appealing if you’re ok with the magnified attention.
 

On paper, Texas is amongst the best of the non-blue bloods. But certain types of coaches will never come here (jay wright) due to being second fiddle in the athletics department.

We are definitely in that first tier of non-historical blue bloods just based on potential. Need the right guy to tap into it. Beard looked/looks like the guy if he can figure out keeping his job 

[Pancho 41822]

1 hour ago, CheesePie said:

The Texas job has more similarities to Ohio State & Florida than to the basketball centric schools you grouped us with above. Some coaches prefer the smaller, basketball focused schools. Not having to compete with football is appealing if you’re ok with the magnified attention.
 

On paper, Texas is amongst the best of the non-blue bloods. But certain types of coaches will never come here (jay wright) due to being second fiddle in the athletics department.

Jay Wright is never coming here because he’s retired and Austin isn’t Philly but more because he’s retired. It’s time this board moves on. 

 

Jay Wright wasn’t coming here even if he was still coaching. 

[jimmyjazz 45055]

6 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

as long as i live (so probably not that much longer), i'll never forget/stop incredulously trashing the idea that a bunch of people here on surly (aka people who actually follow this sport/program more closely than 99% of UT fans) actually all agreed that grant fucking mccasland would be a great hire to replace chris beard. 

Nobody said that, Derka.  The discussion was centered around coaches who would take the job right now, and consensus was that Donovan and Wright would pass.  Then you move on to Oats, Muss, Cal.  Some of us don't want to have anything to do with Muss or Cal.

Fuck you for never being able to suss out the nuance of a discussion.  Nobody said the UNT coach was the best guy for the job.  The point was his background isn't much different than that of Beard or Oats when they grabbed their first P5 job.

[Pam Cummings 9409]

Will you motherfuckers shut the fuck up about grant mccasland? You wanna talk about a meaningless discussion that bears no fruit for anyone involved, well there it is.

Edited December 27, 2022 by Pam Cummings

[jimmyjazz 45055]

11 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Will you motherfuckers shut the fuck up about grant mccasland? You wanna talk about a meaningless discussion that bears no fruit for anyone involved, well there it is.

OK, Dad.

[Pancho 41822]

20 minutes ago, Pam Cummings said:

Will you motherfuckers shut the fuck up about grant mccasland Jay Wright? You wanna talk about a meaningless discussion that bears no fruit for anyone involved, well there it is.

FIFY

[hobbes2702 12481]

6 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

This board is so stupid I never got more shit than for a post on Christmas of 2011 when I said the NBA was in the era of Lebron. That was a throwaway line while kind of doing a state of the nba and talking about what the national team might look like. I literally thought it was so self evident as to not be worth discussing in even the most cursory manner.  But I got absolutely flayed. The reason?  People are stupid. Shake it off. You know more hoops than 99% of this board. 

I got ripped last year for saying Trae wasn’t anywhere near Lukas level. Didn’t think it was controversial really

[shadow_operative 15931]

4 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

I got ripped last year for saying Trae wasn’t anywhere near Lukas level. Didn’t think it was controversial really

i got crushed for saying that Luka was more skilled than Dirk, lol.

[Js1 82363]

29 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

OK, Dad.

[ClubWhatever 12066]

Confucius say, only fool look for affirmation from surlyhorns website

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

5 hours ago, Js1 said:

Yeah, we are in the tier right under the 5 "historical" bluebloods. 

UCLA is still there.  Sure they haven't won a title in almost 30 years, but they also have 4 Final Fours since that title in 1995, a runner up finish in 1996 and 5 Elite Eights. 

Indiana hasn't been to the Final Four since 2002 (runner up finish) or past the Elite Eight since 2002. 

UNC, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UCLA is tier 1
Texas, Indiana, UH, UConn, Villanova are a step below, but Texas is probably towards the bottom of that second tier (still top 10) 

I would not put us #1 in that second tier, compared to a UConn (2011/2014 titles) or UH (2021 Elite 8, 2022 Final Four) or Villanova (2016 and 2018 titles, 2022 Final Four) considering we havent made the Elite 8 since 2008.  

 

Texas has the potential, but not the history of titles or recent NCAA runs. 

UCLA isn't top tier anymore, they don't pay dick.  

Indiana isn't Second tier anymore- they haven't been relevant nationally in forever and most of their success was 1 dude. 

I'm not ready to say Duke is first tier until I see someone other than K have some success. If they go to a final 4 in the next 3 years I'm perfectly fine with saying that- just want to see it 1 time without K before we stamp them top 5.  I know UH has been better than us recently, and has historical highs that are better than us, and I say this with no disrespect to UH- but I think the majority of the world would view UT as a better job than UH.  

I'd have UNC, UK and KU in a tier by themselves

2nd tier- Gonzaga, Duke and UCLA- with Duke promoted to first tier if they make a final 4 shortly
next tier- Texas, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Nova, Uconn, Tennessee (they are at the bottom of this tier but they've been ranked #1 for a couple different coaches), Arkansas.  

Next tier- State schools in P5 conferences that usually make the tournament- the best of the mid majors- schools named after cities that are top 30 cities in population size.  

[jimmyjazz 45055]

I'd definitely put Baylor in that list.  Not sure which tier, but not next-next tier.  A national title and multiple top 5 finishes means something.

[shadow_operative 15931]

i'd guess that baylor would probably still be down the list a bit for a program with its recent success due to it being a private, baptist school with a small budget, located in Waco, Texas. 

[jimmyjazz 45055]

3 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i'd guess that baylor would probably still be down the list a bit for a program with its recent success due to it being a private, baptist school with a small budget, located in Waco, Texas. 

Baylor:  private, 21K students, $2B endowment, Baptist, Waco (population 140K , 100 miles to Austin, 100 miles to Dallas)

Gonzaga:  private, 7K students, $0.3B endowment, Catholic, Spokane (population 230K, 280 miles to Seattle, 350 miles to Portland)

 

Gonzaga definitely fails on the (known) rapist and murder (cat + people) metrics, though.

[redswingline 1057]

14 hours ago, Herpa Derpa said:

as others have already pointed out, you're arguing program legacy when the discussion is current coaching job.

Nope.  I argued that titles from a long time ago may not be worth much and that more recently, duke has the most titles of anyone. see below. 

 

On 12/26/2022 at 9:57 PM, redswingline said:

How much does recency matter?  duke has 5 titles in the last 31 years, N. Carolina has 4 and Kentucky has 3 (I think). I  hate duke but they have to be top 5, at least during the last 3 decades.

UCLA has something like 11 or 12 titles all time, more than anyone else - they just crushed it during those wooden years. However, their last title was 1995.

Just by sheer # of titles I would have a hard time putting any program above ucla from a historical context. However, 1995 was a long time ago.

 

[redswingline 1057]

16 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

yeah man, top flight coaches are just bending over backwards trying to land that San Francisco job. 🙄 the fact that you can't/won't honestly answer the question says everything. 

usf doesn't have anything to do with us not being a top 5 program.

let's look at the last 21-22 title winners and the runners up (far right column). how many times do you see us in there?

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by redswingline

[redswingline 1057]

14 hours ago, Js1 said:

Yeah, we are in the tier right under the 5 "historical" bluebloods. 

UCLA is still there.  Sure they haven't won a title in almost 30 years, but they also have 4 Final Fours since that title in 1995, a runner up finish in 1996 and 5 Elite Eights. 

Indiana hasn't been to the Final Four since 2002 (runner up finish) or past the Elite Eight since 2002. 

UNC, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UCLA is tier 1
Texas, Indiana, UH, UConn, Villanova are a step below, but Texas is probably towards the bottom of that second tier (still top 10) 

I would not put us #1 in that second tier, compared to a UConn (2011/2014 titles) or UH (2021 Elite 8, 2022 Final Four) or Villanova (2016 and 2018 titles, 2022 Final Four) considering we havent made the Elite 8 since 2008.  

 

Texas has the potential, but not the history of titles or recent NCAA runs. 

i didn't realize ucla had that many elite eight and final four appearances since their last title.

 

[redswingline 1057]

9 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

UCLA isn't top tier anymore, they don't pay dick.  

Indiana isn't Second tier anymore- they haven't been relevant nationally in forever and most of their success was 1 dude. 

I'm not ready to say Duke is first tier until I see someone other than K have some success. If they go to a final 4 in the next 3 years I'm perfectly fine with saying that- just want to see it 1 time without K before we stamp them top 5.  I know UH has been better than us recently, and has historical highs that are better than us, and I say this with no disrespect to UH- but I think the majority of the world would view UT as a better job than UH.  

I'd have UNC, UK and KU in a tier by themselves

2nd tier- Gonzaga, Duke and UCLA- with Duke promoted to first tier if they make a final 4 shortly
next tier- Texas, Florida, Ohio State, Michigan State, Michigan, Nova, Uconn, Tennessee (they are at the bottom of this tier but they've been ranked #1 for a couple different coaches), Arkansas.  

Next tier- State schools in P5 conferences that usually make the tournament- the best of the mid majors- schools named after cities that are top 30 cities in population size.  

 i like your post. my tiers are a bit different

tier 1 - duke, unc, ku, kentucky, uconn, ucla. duke has more titles than anyone since 1991. they are definitely tier 1. ucla has a combined 9 elite eight and final 4 appearances since 1996. that's one appearance every 3 years on average. uconn has 3 titles since 2004.

tier 2 - nova, michigan state, baylor, michigan,  UH, gonzaga. jay wright is retired and is why i don't have nova in tier 1.

tier 3 -  florida, louisville, . when guys like  billy donovan and pitino leave, their programs inevitably fall off. not even sure if this tier should exist and maybe they should all just be lumped in with 'next tier' instead. however, florida and louisville have fairly recent titles.

next tier:  teams like ohio st, Texas. i agree with what you posted,  p5 teams and mid majors that consistently make the tournament are in this tier. I would add, a lot of schools are in this tier. ohio state had a pretty good run from 2007-2013 but hasn't sniffed a sweet 16 since 2013. we haven't been to a sweet 16 in 14 years.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2022 by redswingline

[shadow_operative 15931]

3 hours ago, redswingline said:

usf doesn't have anything to do with us not being a top 5 program.

let's look at the last 21-22 title winners and the runners up (far right column). how many times do you see us in there?

 

 

you literally just believe that a CBB HC job is as attractive as it's wikipedia entry for title game appearances, no more, less. okie dokie. i'm gonna go ahead and recommend that this entire forum put you on ignore after this series of wildly stupid responses to one simple question that you still can't answer. 

[hobbes2702 12481]

You know I thought he got it when someone pointed out we were talking about different things. Apparently he did not. It seems as though he actually thinks the best coaching gigs are 1:1 with who has titles. It’s real stupid.

Btw, anyone who has Baylor, Zags, UH, UConn ahead of the Texas job is an idiot. None of those programs have the combination of facilities, location, recruiting base, salary, or NIL that we have. In the day of NIL Texas is an elite destination for a coach. 
 

Edited December 28, 2022 by hobbes2702

[shadow_operative 15931]

the Texas job is 1 of 1. it is singularly tantalizing due to its obscene combination of the ability to recruit here, the legit opportunity to win titles here, and the abject lack of pressure and expectations. and that doesn't even mention the city of Austin, a beautiful, modern, international city, the salary, which will be top 5 in the country, the athletic budget, the close proximity to Dallas and Houston for recruiting purposes, the 50,000 student population, or The Moody Center. the people who are in here who are ranking jobs based solely on past performance and prestige are missing the mark by a mile. there's no other job with ad many perks and as few drawbacks as the Texas job. 

[shadow_operative 15931]

let's talk about the ucla job for a second, and the idea that it's a bigger/better job than the Texas job. how many casual cbb fans can even name the bruins current HC? less than half? how many college hoops fans even watch UCLA, or have any idea what their record is, how they're doing, what the Pac 12 looks like, etc? the UCLA job may as well be on the North Pole compared to the Texas job here in Austin, the central time zone, and the big xii/sec. you could go out to ucla and go 28-3 in your first season and nobody would even know anything about your team as they are filling out their brackets. and yet that fan base still expects to be dominant and nationally relevant. that is not a better job than Texas, i don't care how many titles they won half a century ago. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by shadow_operative

[troph 23963]

On 12/26/2022 at 9:56 PM, Pancho said:

Context. 

Is Texas a top 5 job in terms of its record when it comes to NCs, FF, EEs, S16s, etc? No, and I think we would all agree there. 

I’ve had a P5 assistant coach at a SEC camp in Orlando tell me Texas is a “top 5 job” in the eyes of coaches/assistants because of three things—1.) recruiting base, 2.) money, 3.) no pressure/less pressure. If that’s the context, then yes, I’d say Texas is top 5. 

I’m trying to think of a school in college football that you could equate this to, and I’m getting a blank except for something like UCF starting in 2023. I’m not sure there is a school where football would meet those 3 criteria. 

The problem with making the football analogy is that the football program gives name recognition to the basketball program. I would argue academics as well but that only bolsters my argument. UCF is a shit program for football and academics even if it has those three elements. Texas basketball is a mediocre program, but it’s TEXAS. The “but it’s TEXAS” is recognition and that’s football and academic prestige.  Add the tantalizing elements and you have an intriguing opportunity, a top 5 in a sense but not a traditional sense. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by troph

[shadow_operative 15931]

Texas has been a big name in basketball since KD was here. our name rings out irrespective of what our football program does/has done. any kid we are recruiting has only known UT football as being shitty and overrated, but he knows that KD, TJ, PJ, LA, etc all went to Texas. KD is one who gives name recognition to the hoops program.

[ztejas 42744]

On 12/27/2022 at 8:57 AM, Js1 said:

UNC, Kentucky, Duke, Kansas, UCLA is tier 1
Texas, Indiana, UH, UConn, Villanova are a step below, but Texas is probably towards the bottom of that second tier (still top 10) 

I might add a couple more. I think Michigan is a great job. I think Arizona is a great job. 

[ztejas 42744]

18 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I'm not ready to say Duke is first tier until I see someone other than K have some success.

Duke made 4 Final Fours in the 18 seasons before K got there including making it just two seasons before they hired him. Coach K didn't build Duke basketball - he pushed it over the top.

They are absolutely a tier one job - whether Scheyer pans out or not. Duke cares about school and basketball. That's it. 

Have you been to a game at Cameron?

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

21 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I might add a couple more. I think Michigan is a great job. I think Arizona is a great job. 

I had Michigan but not Arizona. That was an oversight on my part. Arizona is absolutely a great job. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

16 minutes ago, ztejas said:

Duke made 4 Final Fours in the 18 seasons before K got there including making it just two seasons before they hired him. Coach K didn't build Duke basketball - he pushed it over the top.

They are absolutely a tier one job - whether Scheyer pans out or not. Duke cares about school and basketball. That's it. 

Have you been to a game at Cameron?

Never been to a game at Cameron, no, but am well aware of what that place is and what it means. 
I have them behind (momentarily) Kentucky, Kansas and UNC. I just think there’s a difference in that multiple coaches have won national titles at those places so you just KNOW that the job isn’t all the doing of any particular coach.  But, I’ve still got them as a top 5 job so I’m not super down on them or anything. 

[ztejas 42744]

2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Never been to a game at Cameron, no, but am well aware of what that place is and what it means. 
I have them behind (momentarily) Kentucky, Kansas and UNC. I just think there’s a difference in that multiple coaches have won national titles at those places so you just KNOW that the job isn’t all the doing of any particular coach.  But, I’ve still got them as a top 5 job so I’m not super down on them or anything. 

That's fair. Difference is your tier 1 is just 3 schools. I'd probably have UCLA 5th with not much differentiating the top 4. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

2 minutes ago, ztejas said:

That's fair. Difference is your tier 1 is just 3 schools. I'd probably have UCLA 5th with not much differentiating the top 4. 

Yep. I only have 3 in my tier 1 because my tier 1 standard is perfection- not a single problem with the job or school or anything. They all have history, present success, pay really well, are flagship schools for their apparel company (shoe wars matter) Where the apparel companies are actively interested in their success, have a rabid and national following and admin that will throw all sorts of resources at the program, along with hardware in the program from multiple coaches. I can only think of 3 that don’t have any blemish and hit the marks in all those things. UCLA fails at pay. Duke hasn’t definitively proven that it’s the job and not K. I believe they will, but if they don’t hit it with this hire I guess I wouldn’t be shocked if the job turned into Florida after Donovan left. Still a really great job, but nobody thinks of them as a national title waiting to happen and they wouldn’t have their first choice of everyone. 

[Pancho 41822]

1 hour ago, troph said:

The problem with making the football analogy is that the football program gives name recognition to the basketball program. I would argue academics as well but that only bolsters my argument. UCF is a shit program for football and academics even if it has those three elements. Texas basketball is a mediocre program, but it’s TEXAS. The “but it’s TEXAS” is recognition and that’s football and academic prestige.  Add the tantalizing elements and you have an intriguing opportunity, a top 5 in a sense but not a traditional sense. 

I like you troph, but no.

 

[UTDD 362]

I think if I was a coach I would consider Texas a Top 5 job or pretty close to Top 5 at worst.  The combination of advantages added with a little less pressure of immediate success is appealing.  The most unfortunate thing about Beard's situation is how clearly the trajectory of the program was hitting a positive tipping point.  Shaka Smart almost feels like a different world, and it felt like the program was about to take off in a way we only can dream of with the football program.

I'd say UCLA is a pretty good job personally **IF** the university would commit to the program, especially if they end up in the Big Ten.  I think they are still a sleeping giant, and Los Angeles/Westwood isn't the worst place either for a number of reasons.  I do think Cronin is bumped up to about 4 million?  Beard is I think 5.25?  But Calipari is over 8.  UCLA was also just in the Final Four two years ago and are clearly not Tier 1 consistently with recent results, but it's not Indiana bad either.  I think Duke will likely end up ok but they need a non Coach K to lead them to positive results as his shadow won't last forever.  But they're going to have a grace period to continue that momentum.

[YChang 3365]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

Duke made 4 Final Fours in the 18 seasons before K got there including making it just two seasons before they hired him. Coach K didn't build Duke basketball - he pushed it over the top.

They are absolutely a tier one job - whether Scheyer pans out or not. Duke cares about school and basketball. That's it. 

Have you been to a game at Cameron?

Yeah until proven otherwise they’re a tier 1 to me. Attended a game at Cameron as part of coach K’s going away tour. Really fun atmosphere, I can’t imagine the passionate basketball culture going away. 

[Rickylovesweed 14076]

Look at what Vic Schaefer and Beard have been able to do in the portal with NIL.

I don't need to say anything else to justify why Texas is a top 5 basketball job. 

[troph 23963]

22 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I like you troph, but no.

 

I like you too. UCF football is not a top 5 sleeping giant or whatever you called it and it doesn’t compare to Texas basketball. Your analogy doesn’t work. And if you really think Texas basketball - a perennial under achiever and mediocre program doesn’t benefit from football and academic prestige and reputation then ok, but you’re wrong. None of this is in a silo. 

[troph 23963]

2 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

Texas has been a big name in basketball since KD was here. our name rings out irrespective of what our football program does/has done. any kid we are recruiting has only known UT football as being shitty and overrated, but he knows that KD, TJ, PJ, LA, etc all went to Texas. KD is one who gives name recognition to the hoops program.

You both aren’t understanding what I’m saying. Without the academics, the director’s cup, the ubiquitous nature of Texas across all college athletics and sure Barnes and success with key players, Texas basketball is an also-ran. If you say top 5 program and claim resources well hell that’s football. 
 

look, I played basketball and football is not my favorite UT sport - I’m not a football sycophant and I mostly lurk here on the bball board, but there is no way Texas basketball matters one iota without the Texas brand and that’s football and the institution itself. It’s how Barnes got the damn thing started. It’s why Tennessee has done well. It’s why bama is doing well, it’s how a lot of big state - football first schools get a basketball program going. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by troph

[ztejas 42744]

18 minutes ago, troph said:

You both aren’t understanding what I’m saying. Without the academics, the director’s cup, the ubiquitous nature of Texas across all college athletics and sure Barnes and success with key players, Texas basketball is an also-ran. If you say top 5 program and claim resources well hell that’s football. 
 

look, I played basketball and football is not my favorite UT sport - I’m not a football sycophant and I mostly lurk here on the bball board, but there is no way Texas basketball matters one iota without the Texas brand and that’s football and the institution itself. It’s how Barnes got the damn thing started. It’s why Tennessee has done well. It’s why bama is doing well, it’s how a lot of big state - football first schools get a basketball program going. 

I understand the point you're making and agree that the brand has been mainly built through academic standing and football but you're also underselling the basketball program's general history. 

[TreatyOak 16055]

21 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

I'm not ready to say Duke is first tier until I see someone other than K have some success. 

Oh, okay, thanks for clearing that up. Maybe attend a game there, visit their basketball museum, experience the tenting, see how their community revolves around the games, the atmosphere around a UNC game, etc, and then get back to us. 

[UTEE97 3371]

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Michigan State. They have had a lot of tourney success, has an avid fan base, and are willing to pay a lot. They are very much like Kansas but perhaps slightly below? Why wouldn't that be a top tier job in basketball?

[ClubWhatever 12066]

7 minutes ago, UTEE97 said:

I am surprised nobody has mentioned Michigan State.

They have. 

[troph 23963]

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

I understand the point you're making and agree that the brand has been mainly built through academic standing and football but you're also underselling the basketball program's general history. 

not when saying it's a top 5 job.  It's a top 25 program.  when you say it's a top 5 job because of no pressure and resources you are effectively saying that football has the pressure and football brings the resources and why a coach would take the Texas job wanting to turn it into something is based on name recognition.  The next coach to win it all here will be the first and an instant legend.  top 5 based on resources and pressure, top 25 based on it's actual standing.

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

1 hour ago, TreatyOak said:

Oh, okay, thanks for clearing that up. Maybe attend a game there, visit their basketball museum, experience the tenting, see how their community revolves around the games, the atmosphere around a UNC game, etc, and then get back to us. 

Yes- I’ve been running an ncaa tournament pool since I was 7 years old and it’s completely escaped me that they really like hoops at Duke. Also- it’s a crushing insult that I suggested it might be the 4th best job in the country as opposed to the second best job in the country, and we should wait to see how K’s shoes are filled until we make a final determination. 

[TreatyOak 16055]

12 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yes- I’ve been running an ncaa tournament pool since I was 7 years old and it’s completely escaped me that they really like hoops at Duke. Also- it’s a crushing insult that I suggested it might be the 4th best job in the country as opposed to the second best job in the country, and we should wait to see how K’s shoes are filled until we make a final determination. 

"I'm not ready to say Duke is first tier until I see someone other than K have some success."

Your words, bro. For someone who purports to follow basketball, that sure seems like a strange comment.  

[shadow_operative 15931]

17 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Yes- I’ve been running an ncaa tournament pool since I was 7 years old and it’s completely escaped me that they really like hoops at Duke. Also- it’s a crushing insult that I suggested it might be the 4th best job in the country as opposed to the second best job in the country, and we should wait to see how K’s shoes are filled until we make a final determination. 

i'm actually in agreement with you. Coach K *was* Duke. UNC was always the cool, fashionable school, with that tar heel baby blue and guys like Jordan, Worthy, Stack, VC, Jamison, etc, whereas Duke has always been the heel, the small private school with all of the white boys that nobody likes, from Laetnner through Baby Ted Cruz. UNC has always been and will always be cool, especially with the Jordan Brand/MJ cache. there's absolutely no guarantee that Duke doesn't go the way of Indiana post-K. 

Edited December 28, 2022 by shadow_operative

[shadow_operative 15931]

4 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

"I'm not ready to say Duke is first tier until I see someone other than K have some success."

Your words, bro. For someone who purports to follow basketball, that sure seems like a strange comment.  

he's expounded on his point plenty, and as laid out in my previous post, i don't find his comment strange at all. Duke very well could continue to be a tier 1 job like it was under K, but there's absolutely no guarantee that it stays that way, and in fact, it's probably more likely that Duke falls off at least a little bit, if not majorly.

[TreatyOak 16055]

16 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

he's expounded on his point plenty, and as laid out in my previous post, i don't find his comment strange at all. Duke very well could continue to be a tier 1 job like it was under K, but there's absolutely no guarantee that it stays that way, and in fact, it's probably more likely that Duke falls off at least a little bit, if not majorly.

One of my daughters just graduated from Duke, so I've spent a lot of time on the campus over the last four years. While I'm sure the Duke community will be very concerned about your post, I feel confident they will somehow survive your declarations and continue to be one of the top tier basketball programs in the nation.