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UT's next basketball coach - discussion/debate


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21 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

The counterweight I see, and I could be totally off base, is a perceived toxicity within the administration/basketball program. Beard and Shaka will both have left under less than graceful circumstances. I'm less certain on the details of Barnes' departure, but it's open for debate as to why he's found his stride again after moving away. I wonder if there a notion within coaching circles that the juice just ain't worth the squeeze at Texas.

 

None of this is correct. 

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24 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

Acknowledging the advantages Texas has over places like Arkansas & Alabama when it comes to our NIL program, facilities, and ease of recruiting. The counterweight I see, and I could be totally off base, is a perceived toxicity within the administration/basketball program. Beard and Shaka will both have left under less than graceful circumstances. I'm less certain on the details of Barnes' departure, but it's open for debate as to why he's found his stride again after moving away. I wonder if there a notion within coaching circles that the juice just ain't worth the squeeze at Texas.

 

Beard was the perfect guy to handle the internal pressures of this job. Oates & Muss may be assessing what they've built at marginally inferior programs and come away thinking the grass isn't always greener. That's why I think we'll ultimately land a guy from a program with a much more exaggerated resource disparity than say Arkansas or Alabama. 

Lol wut. It was clear Shaka sucked 2 years in and he was given 5 years to show something. Beard had every ounce of support possible and was building something when he threw it all away by his own doing. Neither of those show any kind of toxicity, and there was nothing wrong with how Shaka was fired. He was given more than enough time and support; he’s just a shitty basketball coach. 

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Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Lol wut. It was clear Shaka sucked 2 years in and he was given 5 years to show something. Beard had every ounce of support possible and was building something when he threw it all away by his own doing. Neither of those show any kind of toxicity, and there was nothing wrong with how Shaka was fired. He was given more than enough time and support; he’s just a shitty basketball coach. 

Not to mention he wasn't even fired. 

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38 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

Acknowledging the advantages Texas has over places like Arkansas & Alabama when it comes to our NIL program, facilities, and ease of recruiting. The counterweight I see, and I could be totally off base, is a perceived toxicity within the administration/basketball program. Beard and Shaka will both have left under less than graceful circumstances. I'm less certain on the details of Barnes' departure, but it's open for debate as to why he's found his stride again after moving away. I wonder if there a notion within coaching circles that the juice just ain't worth the squeeze at Texas.

 

Beard was the perfect guy to handle the internal pressures of this job. Oates & Muss may be assessing what they've built at marginally inferior programs and come away thinking the grass isn't always greener. That's why I think we'll ultimately land a guy from a program with a much more exaggerated resource disparity than say Arkansas or Alabama. 

What I’ve heard was Barnes was asked to fire his coaches and he refused to do so

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32 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

Lol wut. It was clear Shaka sucked 2 years in and he was given 5 years to show something. Beard had every ounce of support possible and was building something when he threw it all away by his own doing. Neither of those show any kind of toxicity, and there was nothing wrong with how Shaka was fired. He was given more than enough time and support; he’s just a shitty basketball coach. 

Yes, Shaka sucked and didn't have the chops to coach here. From what I understand, he framed his departure as something to do with not receiving enough support from the fans/program. We all know the fans didn't support him because he was terrible at his job. He's not going to frame it that way when he's talking to his coaching buddies.

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Texas' firing of Barnes and Shaka (OK, transfer of Shaka) aren't even controversial.  Beard is the first coach since Penders to put his job in jeopardy for things beyond performance.

There is absolutely no stink on this program, other than the fact that we often seem to do less with more.

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7 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

Yes, Shaka sucked and didn't have the chops to coach here. From what I understand, he framed his departure as something to do with not receiving enough support from the fans/program. We all know the fans didn't support him because he was terrible at his job. He's not going to frame it that way when he's talking to his coaching buddies.

You threw out the “just asking, I could be wrong” stupid first post, which is fine but now you’re sticking with it in the face of being clearly wrong. Time to let it go. 

Shaka making excuses for sucking is irrelevant. Oats or any CBB coach knows Shaka sucks and won’t care about his excuses for why he failed after getting more time than most other programs would’ve given him. 
 

 

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11 minutes ago, CheesePie said:

Yes, Shaka sucked and didn't have the chops to coach here. From what I understand, he framed his departure as something to do with not receiving enough support from the fans/program. We all know the fans didn't support him because he was terrible at his job. He's not going to frame it that way when he's talking to his coaching buddies.

Where is your source for this? 

Shaka left on his own accord.  

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28 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

You threw out the “just asking, I could be wrong” stupid first post, which is fine but now you’re sticking with it in the face of being clearly wrong. Time to let it go. 

Shaka making excuses for sucking is irrelevant. Oats or any CBB coach knows Shaka sucks and won’t care about his excuses for why he failed after getting more time than most other programs would’ve given him. 
 

 

None of these replies have convinced me that I'm clearly wrong. I may be wrong, and hope I am. I hope you allow yourself time for reflection on this program if/when we strike out on the guys at the top of the surly wishlist.

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4 minutes ago, longhornmatt said:

Oats got some big time recruits to Alabama in prior classes, but he’s got a lot of bread in their class this year rather than continuing to trend up in recruiting.  Lloyd’s recruiting at Arizona still is TBD as well.

Musselman, despite seeming like a creep in some respects, is the one who seems like a pretty good bet to make it rain as a recruiter.  He also has a bit of the transfer magic like Beard.  His Nevada teams were built on getting transfers.  I’d like him over Oats, and not just to piss off our Hog guest.

I think Muss is also a better coach. I do think Oats would be easier to pry away. 

 

A big dick move I haven't seen mentioned - although he unfortunately just got extended - what if Texas bought out Billy Donovan's contract? He'd have to want to make a return to college but he's currently captaining a listless, 11-16 Bulls team that has zero shot at contending for a title. 

I think it would be too cost-prohibitive (then again, Calipari is being floated as a possibility). Also trying to think of any precedence for an NBA HC walking away from a lucrative, multi-year deal. 

 

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1 minute ago, jimmyjazz said:

I always liked Donovan.

At this point, McCasland is starting to make a lot of sense, given his ties to recruiting in Texas and general approach to the game, not to mention success.

Yeah. McCasland seems like the high potential reward pick, despite his lack of P5 experience. He seems like a potential coaching super star who just needs the right job and Texas could be that right job.

But I certainly get hiring some older coach with lots of skins on the wall as well, presuming there is one willing to come here.

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I don’t see Donovan coming back to college. 

McCasland would need a strong assistant to can be his rainmaker with recruits. I could be wrong, but I can’t see McCasland walking into Souf Dallas for a recruit like I could see Beard doing. 

Still think the top 3 should be: 

Oats/Muss

Muss/Oats

Lloyd

 

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5 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

I see you are aiming for the presidency of the Rodney Terry fanclub.

He was the guy who recruited Kevin Durant right? He can't be that bad.

I personally have no problem with Terry as an assistant. I’m saying you have to give the new coach autonomy to make his assistant coaching decisions how he sees fit. That’s all. 

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27 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I personally have no problem with Terry as an assistant. I’m saying you have to give the new coach autonomy to make his assistant coaching decisions how he sees fit. That’s all. 

Yep.   You don't tell the new guy who he has to have on staff.  Terry may not be a fit to what New 2023 Coach wants to do; no need to automatically hamstring the new coach by saddling him with a guy he doesn't want. 

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Whatever we do I want an offensive specialist as a head coach. There's no way we're going to get another master marketer on the same level as Beard so in lieu of having a salesman in the same vein as him we're going to need a style of play that sells itself to the fans who need shiny objects to be all in with basketball.  Musselman would probably be the closest thing to the salesman that Beard is with the added bonus of having an offensive focus, but it may be tough to lure him away from Arkansas. If he is a no go then I'd like to kick the tires on the dude at Arizona to test whether he'd be interested. There was a time where it would've been blasphemous for Arizona's head basketball coach to leave for UT, but with the way the tables have turned in basketball recruiting circles with the state of Texas probably have the best high school basketball talent in the country I think it's a reasonable possibility. 

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40 minutes ago, Catdaddyhorn said:

Whatever we do I want an offensive specialist as a head coach. There's no way we're going to get another master marketer on the same level as Beard so in lieu of having a salesman in the same vein as him we're going to need a style of play that sells itself to the fans who need shiny objects to be all in with basketball.  Musselman would probably be the closest thing to the salesman that Beard is with the added bonus of having an offensive focus, but it may be tough to lure him away from Arkansas. If he is a no go then I'd like to kick the tires on the dude at Arizona to test whether he'd be interested. There was a time where it would've been blasphemous for Arizona's head basketball coach to leave for UT, but with the way the tables have turned in basketball recruiting circles with the state of Texas probably have the best high school basketball talent in the country I think it's a reasonable possibility. 

yeah my main draw to lloyd is that he wins by playing a highly entertaining style of basketball.  i like musselman more, but if lloyd is more attainable i'm perfectly ok with that.

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9 hours ago, ztejas said:

I think Muss is also a better coach. I do think Oats would be easier to pry away. 

 

A big dick move I haven't seen mentioned - although he unfortunately just got extended - what if Texas bought out Billy Donovan's contract? He'd have to want to make a return to college but he's currently captaining a listless, 11-16 Bulls team that has zero shot at contending for a title. 

I think it would be too cost-prohibitive (then again, Calipari is being floated as a possibility). Also trying to think of any precedence for an NBA HC walking away from a lucrative, multi-year deal. 

 

Happy Workaholics GIF

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10 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah. McCasland seems like the high potential reward pick, despite his lack of P5 experience. He seems like a potential coaching super star who just needs the right job and Texas could be that right job.

But I certainly get hiring some older coach with lots of skins on the wall as well, presuming there is one willing to come here.

Only 1 season of less than 20 wins, that was the post Covid season, and he beat Purdue in the tournament that year. Graduated from Baylor before the stink of the murder took place.

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i've read a lot of stupid shit since monday, but this thread takes the cake. surly is all about hiring this guy:

9D95BBDB-2CED-46DB-8BD1-368E24B5C960.thumb.jpeg.98efe6453347f8e98b75a452715e7bcd.jpeg

 

D94C32F4-E581-4DAF-A980-C2F25742AC7B.thumb.jpeg.c3622b88fedeabf31151df8a33a65ae5.jpeg

 

6DE3A7F5-7142-42D9-831B-CA11CDDF1525.thumb.jpeg.09796fa7bf31ecf27ffc2918ee752b9c.jpeg

 

but wants absolutely nothing to do with this guy:

EA3A077A-E12F-436B-AA6C-CF1416C09104.thumb.jpeg.1cfff06e3b6fae4ef8e69d8076d1def6.jpeg

you guys are smoking fucking crack. we should be so lucky to get someone as good as Coach Cal. and don't tell me shit about who he is as a person. i don't know if any of y'all have noticed, but scumbags win championships. Coach Cal, Rick Pitino, Scott Drew, hell even Nick Saban and Coach K are just elite level scumbags who are so good at it that they can remove themselves from being directly linked with their own scumbaggery. Chris Beard is a scumbag, and he was gonna be our Coach K. you don't want a scumbag, then apologize to Rick Barnes and be happy with one FF appearance every two decades or so. otherwise gtfo with the idea that we're "better than" hiring someone like John Calipari. i'd lose a pinky toe if it meant hiring him. you all can have Joe Nobody from UNT.

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to spare everyone a classic, interminable derka diatribe, i'll just say this: folks who only focus on a prospective HC's on-court style and success are ignoring a *huge* chunk of what makes a tier 1 coach a tier 1 coach. there's so, so much more to it than that. if it was all about basketball acumen then mark adams and chris beard would be interchangeable. they aren't.

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8 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

i've read a lot of stupid shit since monday, but this thread takes the cake. surly is all about hiring this guy:

9D95BBDB-2CED-46DB-8BD1-368E24B5C960.thumb.jpeg.98efe6453347f8e98b75a452715e7bcd.jpeg

 

D94C32F4-E581-4DAF-A980-C2F25742AC7B.thumb.jpeg.c3622b88fedeabf31151df8a33a65ae5.jpeg

 

6DE3A7F5-7142-42D9-831B-CA11CDDF1525.thumb.jpeg.09796fa7bf31ecf27ffc2918ee752b9c.jpeg

 

but wants absolutely nothing to do with this guy:

EA3A077A-E12F-436B-AA6C-CF1416C09104.thumb.jpeg.1cfff06e3b6fae4ef8e69d8076d1def6.jpeg

you guys are smoking fucking crack. we should be so lucky to get someone as good as Coach Cal. and don't tell me shit about who he is as a person. i don't know if any of y'all have noticed, but scumbags win championships. Coach Cal, Rick Pitino, Scott Drew, hell even Nick Saban and Coach K are just elite level scumbags who are so good at it that they can remove themselves from being directly linked with their own scumbaggery. Chris Beard is a scumbag, and he was gonna be our Coach K. you don't want a scumbag, then apologize to Rick Barnes and be happy with one FF appearance every two decades or so. otherwise gtfo with the idea that we're "better than" hiring someone like John Calipari. i'd lose a pinky toe if it meant hiring him. you all can have Joe Nobody from UNT.

CDC should hire Derka to lead our basketball coach committee. Wait. Never mind. We’d end up with Barnes 

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