DACA, immigration reform whatever

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

3 minutes ago, zork said:

That cat sure looks like it cares.  Do you?

About kids being separated from their parents? Your damn right I do. 

A fucking jacket? Not a lick. 

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

 
Please, it's a fucking jacket. It's actually sad/comical the number of people losing their shit over it. Of all the fucking legit things (hello kids being taken from their parents) to freak out about and this is the latest shinny object. 
Hell I'm impressed she is wearing a $39 jacket. 

Imagine Nancy, Barbara, Michelle or any other First Lady wearing something like that after such a debacle. If not on purpose, she looks like an idiot teenager and her handlers fucked up. If in purpose, then we truly at the moment where we all collectively say “wow” and are left speechless.

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,245]

11 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I don't think Melania cares enough about this issue for that choice of wardrobe to have been intentional.

You’re assuming it was her choice.

[Huckleberry 32,141]

1 hour ago, HtownHorn said:

and what you be surprising to you? Support a party that loves abortion, or sit out the process entirely. It's a retarded kobayashi maru you got going there.

I'm not sure what you're asking with the first sentence.

As for the second, it is exactly that kind of idiocy that has you supporting a New York liberal who is enacting anti-free market policies and is expanding government overreach at every opportunity. You think you're winning because an (R) got elected. In reality everything you claim you stand for is being defeated. Let me know exactly how much headway has been made on the abortion issue at the federal level since Trump took office.

And nobody loves abortion. That's just more brainwashed red meat being regurgitated by a simpleton.

Edited June 21, 2018 by Huckleberry

[zork 629]

11 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

About kids being separated from their parents? Your damn right I do. 

A fucking jacket? Not a lick. 

that cat cares about being led around by the led light.  

[Fozzz 152]

I think Gorsuch and the gutting of federal regs (thanks Pruitt) is probably worth it from a "free market" perspective even with his trade shenanigans.  Gorsuch and company are about to kill public sector unions, for instance.  

Also, just today...a huge win for the market and a big L for big government:

 

 

Edited June 21, 2018 by Fozzz

[Huckleberry 32,141]

6 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I think Gorsuch and the gutting of federal regs (thanks Pruitt) is probably worth it from a "free market" perspective even with his trade shenanigans.  Gorsuch and company are about to kill public sector unions, for instance.  

Riiiiiiiiiight. Sure they are. Keep believing that.

When the pendulum goes back the other way everything Pruitt has done will be undone several times over. That's another terrible thing so-called "conservatives" are cheering on right now. Solutions based on executive branch whimsy. I'm sure that's gonna work out great when the executive branch is in Democrat hands.

As for public sector unions, I expect the ruling to go the same way that you and most others do. But the long-term implications of the ruling may cause you to wish it never happened. Be careful what you wish for.

[JimmyHoffa 1,188]

18 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:

Imagine Nancy, Barbara, Michelle or any other First Lady wearing something like that after such a debacle. If not on purpose, she looks like an idiot teenager and her handlers fucked up. If in purpose, then we truly at the moment where we all collectively say “wow” and are left speechless.

 

Or Hillary wearing a $12,000 (or however much it was) Armarni jacket. 

 

Who gives a shit. 

[Brisketexan 103,141]

2 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

Riiiiiiiiiight. Sure they are. Keep believing that.

When the pendulum goes back the other way everything Pruitt has done will be undone several times over. That's another terrible thing so-called "conservatives" are cheering on right now. Solutions based on executive branch whimsy. I'm sure that's gonna work out great when the executive branch is in Democrat hands.

 

Here's a simple lens to look at this through, and it's quite telling: Trump and team are gonna "bring back coal."  They are rolling back as many regs as they can.  Hell, they're talking about creating incentives for coal power.

If the coal and electric generation industry thought that those changes were REAL, and that they had any chance of surviving ANY succeeding presidential term, they'd be making significant long-term investments in firing up coal generation, bringing mothballed coal generation facilities out of retirement, and the like. 

They aren't.  Sure, there are a handful of marginal plants that go back and forth.  But the INDUSTRY is not reacting in a way that says "coal is back, baby!"  Because they know that (1) Trump is mostly talk, and (2) whatever actions he takes are impetuous and not connected to any cogent or lasting policy change, so they'll likely be undone in less than 10 years, which doesn't make long-term investment a wise move.

Watch the investment dollars.  Those tell you whether a political initiative/move is legit or not.

[Brisketexan 103,141]

3 minutes ago, JimmyHoffa said:

 

Or Hillary wearing a $12,000 (or however much it was) Armarni jacket. 

 

Who gives a shit. 

Well....millions of Fox News viewers did.

Until they didn't.

[Patricio Swayze 17,058]

Well....millions of Fox News viewers did.
Until they didn't.

I wonder if the jacket was made in a Guatemalan sweat shop.

[Aqua Buddha 13,897]

So, what becomes of the people in custody now?  We've dispersed them around the country but do they get a trial or a hearing and then what?  If the parent is granted asylum, are their kids automatically granted asylum and will they be reunited?  What's the end game?

[Bama Chick 28,595]

 
Or Hillary wearing a $12,000 (or however much it was) Armarni jacket. 
 
Who gives a shit. 

So, were you preaching this “Who gives a shit? You should be better than this!” tripe when the right lost their collective minds over -

- Barack Obama’s tan suit
- Michelle Obama’s sleeveless dresses
- The Obama daughters wearing short hemlines

Something tells me you weren’t.

[Aqua Buddha 13,897]

4 minutes ago, Bama Chick said:

 

So, were you preaching this “Who gives a shit? You should be better than this!” tripe when the right lost their collective minds over -

- Barack Obama’s tan suit
- Michelle Obama’s sleeveless dresses
- The Obama daughters wearing short hemlines

Something tells me you weren’t.

 

In all fairness, all of your examples are black.

[Skyline 325]

While it is incredibly tone deaf, people should not take the bait from the Trump's. They'd rather that people discuss anything but family separation, or the new healthcare bill the GOP will attempt to pass. 

[Bama Chick 28,595]

I don’t know about you but I can discuss and be mad about multiple issues at any given time.

But I am a woman so I’m good at that kind of thing.

[Brisketexan 103,141]

Let's talk about the Trump demagoguery on immigration, shall we?

While I think Americans across the board agree that (1) we need to have borders, and (2) we need to have a system of laws and rules.....and we think that about a lot of things.  We should have a healthy, functioning system that is orderly.  But that doesn't mean that the issue is a crisis.  In fact, it's not a crisis.  The whole Trump nativist anti-immigrant story is BULLSHIT.  It is fear-mongering, hate-feeding bullshit.

Quote

Return of the Blood Libel

By Paul Krugman

Opinion Columnist

June 21, 2018

 

The speed of America’s moral descent under Donald Trump is breathtaking. In a matter of months we’ve gone from a nation that stood for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness to a nation that tears children from their parents and puts them in cages.

What’s almost equally remarkable about this plunge into barbarism is that it’s not a response to any actual problem. The mass influx of murderers and rapists that Trump talks about, the wave of crime committed by immigrants here (and, in his mind, refugees in Germany), are things that simply aren’t happening. They’re just sick fantasies being used to justify real atrocities.

And you know what this reminds me of? The history of anti-Semitism, a tale of prejudice fueled by myths and hoaxes that ended in genocide.

First, let’s talk about modern U.S. immigration and how it compares to those sick fantasies.

There is a highly technical debate among economists about whether low-education immigrants exert a depressing effect on the wages of low-education native-born workers (most researchers find that they don’t, but there is some disagreement). This debate, however, is playing no role in Trump policies.

ADVERTISEMENT

What these policies reflect, instead, is a vision of “American carnage,” of big cities overrun by violent immigrants. And this vision bears no relationship to reality.

For one thing, despite a small uptick since 2014, violent crime in America is actually at historical lows, with the homicide rate back to where it was in the early 1960s. (German crime is also at a historical low, by the way.) Trump’s carnage is a figment of his imagination.

You have 2 free articles remaining.

Subscribe to The Times

True, if we look across America there is a correlation between violent crime and the prevalence of undocumented immigrants — a negative correlation. That is, places with a lot of immigrants, legal and undocumented, tend to have exceptionally low crime rates. The poster child for this tale of un-carnage is the biggest city of them all: New York, where more than a third of the population is foreign-born, probably including around half a million undocumented immigrants — and crime has fallen to levels not seen since the 1950s.

And this really shouldn’t be surprising, because criminal conviction data show that immigrants, both legal and undocumented, are significantly less likely to commit crimes than the native-born.

 

So the Trump administration has been terrorizing families and children, abandoning all norms of human decency, in response to a crisis that doesn’t even exist.

Where does this fear and hatred of immigrants come from? A lot of it seems to be fear of the unknown: The most anti-immigrant states seem to be places, like West Virginia, where hardly any immigrants live.

But virulent hatred for immigrants isn’t just a matter of rural rubes. Trump himself is, of course, a wealthy New Yorker, and a lot of the funding for anti-immigrant groups comes from foundations controlled by right-wing billionaires. Why do wealthy, successful people end up hating immigrants? I sometimes find myself thinking about the TV commentator Lou Dobbs, whom I used to know and like in the early 2000s, but who has become a rabid anti-immigrationist (and Trump confidant), and who is currently warning against a pro-immigrant plot by “the Illuminati of K Street.”

I don’t know what drives such people — but we’ve seen this movie before, in the history of anti-Semitism.

The thing about anti-Semitism is that it was never about anything Jews actually did. It was always about lurid myths, often based on deliberate fabrications, that were systematically spread to engender hatred.

For example, for centuries people repeated the “blood libel” — the claim that Jews sacrificed Christian babies as part of the Passover ritual.

In the early part of the 20th century there was wide dissemination of “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion,” a supposed plan for Jewish world domination that was probably forged by the Russian secret police. (History repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, the second time as more tragedy.)

 

The fake document received wide dissemination in the United States thanks to none other than Henry Ford, a virulent anti-Semite who oversaw the publication and distribution of a half-million copies of an English translation, “The International Jew.” Ford later apologized for publishing a forgery, but the damage was done.

Again, why would someone like Ford — not only wealthy, but also one of the most admired men of his time — have gone down this path? I don’t know, but clearly such things happen.

In any case, the important thing to understand is that the atrocities our nation is now committing at the border don’t represent an overreaction or poorly implemented response to some actual problem that needs solving. There is no immigration crisis; there is no crisis of immigrant crime.

No, the real crisis is an upsurge in hatred — unreasoning hatred that bears no relationship to anything the victims have done. And anyone making excuses for that hatred — who tries, for example, to turn it into a “both sides” story — is, in effect, an apologist for crimes against humanity.

Time to draw the fucking line, and call BULLSHIT on this entire narrative.  They've take it too fucking far, and time for the counter-offensive, using the truth.  Fuck you for using immigrants and "the other" as your cheap punching bag.  Fuck you for happily ginning up hatred and demonization against these human beings.  It's a tactic for the cowardly and simple-minded.  It does not reflect reality.  Basta.

[Underdog 27,966]

1 hour ago, JimmyHoffa said:

Please. 

Wonder if that’d work on Donald?

[Brisketexan 103,141]

1 minute ago, Underdog said:

Wonder if that’d work on Donald?

Do they make laser dots that look like overdone eastern european chicks with fake tits?

 

Asking for a friend....

[Underdog 27,966]

Your friend, left or right? 

[retread 2,951]

26 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Let's talk about the Trump demagoguery on immigration, shall we? 

 

Quote

 For one thing, despite a small uptick since 2014, violent crime in America is actually at historical lows, with the homicide rate back to where it was in the early 1960s. (German crime is also at a historical low, by the way.) Trump’s carnage is a figment of his imagination.

 True, if we look across America there is a correlation between violent crime and the prevalence of undocumented immigrants — a negative correlation. That is, places with a lot of immigrants, legal and undocumented, tend to have exceptionally low crime rates. 

And this really shouldn’t be surprising, because criminal conviction data show that immigrants, both legal and undocumented, are significantly less likely to commit crimes than the native-born.

Interesting how we never hear these stats from the Rs.

 

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,245]

I liked Melania better when she was missing.

[zork 629]

1 hour ago, Aqua Buddha said:

So, what becomes of the people in custody now?  We've dispersed them around the country but do they get a trial or a hearing and then what?  If the parent is granted asylum, are their kids automatically granted asylum and will they be reunited?  What's the end game?

The 20 days point is going to be key.  Can't have the kids in custody for more than 20 days, or something.  But zero tolerance so no catch and release?  What will they do?

[4th&Five 41,055]

 

[JimmyJames 12,267]

2 minutes ago, 4th&Five said:

 

The white guy?

[Celery Man 20,535]

Note to self - when elected president, have my wife throw out all of her clothing emblazoned with “suck my cock you fucking rubes”

[zork 629]

2 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

Note to self - when elected president, have my wife throw out all of her clothing emblazoned with “suck my cock you fucking rubes”

so it was Trump's jacket?  His jacket would have said:  "I wouldn't let you suck my cock ...."

Edited June 21, 2018 by zork

[scottsins 1,921]

48 minutes ago, zork said:

The 20 days point is going to be key.  Can't have the kids in custody for more than 20 days, or something.  But zero tolerance so no catch and release?  What will they do?

They will keep them longer, get sued and have the courts undo the EO, then Trump will claim that he tried, but dems/judges won't let him.  #MAGA

[zork 629]

4 minutes ago, scottsins said:

They will keep them longer, get sued and have the courts undo the EO, then Trump will claim that he tried, but dems/judges won't let him.  #MAGA

I've read that somewhere else.  who will sue?

[Mojo Hand 4,580]

The administration has already filed a request with the court for a modification of the Flores agreement, so it'll get its ruling one way or the other.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/21/department-justice-files-flores-agreement-modification-to-fall-in-line-with-trump-executive-order.html

[scottsins 1,921]

1 hour ago, zork said:

I've read that somewhere else.  who will sue?

 Family that is locked up for more than 20 days, of course.

Edited June 22, 2018 by scottsins

[Pancho 41,818]

 

[RayDog 682]

1 hour ago, Mojo Hand said:

The administration has already filed a request with the court for a modification of the Flores agreement, so it'll get its ruling one way or the other.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06/21/department-justice-files-flores-agreement-modification-to-fall-in-line-with-trump-executive-order.html

They will get their asses handed to them by the Judge. I suspect that Peter Schey will get the Judge to order that the government reunite the children with their parents. The judge will not extend the 20 day limit. The judge will not approve the use of military facilities in the administration's attempt to skirt the licensure requirement in the Flores agreement.

[Pancho 41,818]

The United States if America in 2018

 

[JohnnyRage 1,616]

5 hours ago, zork said:

The 20 days point is going to be key.  Can't have the kids in custody for more than 20 days, or something.  But zero tolerance so no catch and release?  What will they do?

Only 10 to 20 percent of illegal immigrants are being detained awaiting trial under Trump's Zero Tolerance Policy. They don't have the capacity to prosecute more than that per Border Patrol Representative Brandon Judd. The rest are given a court date.

[Zepol87 9,015]

The United States if America in 2018
 

This is fucking disgusting

[blackmarketbaby 118]

7 hours ago, Fozzz said:

I think Gorsuch and the gutting of federal regs (thanks Pruitt) is probably worth it from a "free market" perspective even with his trade shenanigans.  Gorsuch and company are about to kill public sector unions, for instance.  

Also, just today...a huge win for the market and a big L for big government:

 

 

Is this the Putin plan?

[Ragnarok 103]

Geez, jacketgate. Once again, the left gets all in a tizzy about nothing. She only wore it because her "Let them eat cake" jacket was at the cleaners.

[WhatTheBuck 28,574]

Where is the girls' prison? 

[Aqua Buddha 13,897]

14 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

Riiiiiiiiiight. Sure they are. Keep believing that.

When the pendulum goes back the other way everything Pruitt has done will be undone several times over. That's another terrible thing so-called "conservatives" are cheering on right now. Solutions based on executive branch whimsy. I'm sure that's gonna work out great when the executive branch is in Democrat hands.

As for public sector unions, I expect the ruling to go the same way that you and most others do. But the long-term implications of the ruling may cause you to wish it never happened. Be careful what you wish for.

I said this in the Fox News thread but when a new administration gets sworn in, the new EPA chief will undo everything Pruitt in an afternoon.  We'll then here utter hyperventilation, screaming, and frothing at the mouth from Fox about the evils of government overreach.

[retread 2,951]

Quote

The Trump administration is shutting down the least restrictive alternative to detention available to asylum-seekers who have entered the U.S. illegally, The Associated Press has learned.

Immigration activists consider the move a callous insult to migrants fleeing traumatic violence and poverty — nearly all the program’s participants are Central American mothers and children — by a White House that has prioritized deportations that break up families over assimilating refugees.

“This is a clear attempt to punish mothers who are trying to save their children’s lives by seeking protection in the United States,” said Michelle Brane of the nonprofit Women’s Refugee Commission. “I think it’s crazy they are shutting down a program that is so incredibly successful.”

The overwhelming majority of asylum-seekers that U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement spares confinement at family detention centers — about 70,000 —have been placed in a highly intrusive “intensive supervision” program as they await court hearings on whether they can stay in the U.S.

The Family Case Management Program that is being shuttered had 630 families enrolled in May. Essentially a counseling service, it has operated in Chicago, Miami, New York, Los Angeles and Baltimore/Washington, D.C., since January 2016. Social workers help participants find lawyers, navigate the overburdened immigration court system, get housing and health care, and enroll the kids in school.

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/2017/06/09/204218/ice-shutters-detention-alternative-for-asylum-seekers/

 

Quote

BURNETT: Well, you know, we've been hearing from administration spokespeople and the conservative media about how if the government doesn't prosecute these people and jail them and also take their kids away, they'll abscond. But there are alternatives to detention. I received an email from ICE yesterday with an amazing statistic - 99.8 percent of participants enrolled in alternatives to detention successfully make it to immigration court. And I know lots of immigrant parents with children are being released right now in South Texas wearing these electronic ankle monitors. When they strap them on, they agree to appear at all their immigration hearings and check in with ICE periodically. Conservatives contradict ICE, saying the no-show rate is actually much higher.

But there - so there are three of these electronic alternatives, two more - telephonic reporting allows a participant to call a number that recognizes their voice print and constitutes a check in. And finally, there's a program launched earlier this year that I think a guest mentioned in the earlier hour called SmartLINK that allows the immigrant to check in with their mobile phone. And the Government Accountability Office found that these kinds of electronic supervision are the cheapest form of monitoring, much less expensive than detention, which is what the Trump administration wants more of.

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/20/621726953/update-on-immigration-and-family-separations

[Fozzz 152]

Depends on whether the dem nominee makes that a priority. There’s also the tax cuts, relaxing of banking regs, etc., that was done through Congress. And of course Gorsuch will do immeasurable amounts of damage. 

Even if the Dems don’t nominate a centrist stooge, the damage from this admin will be felt for a long time. 

[EastTexan 662]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Here's a simple lens to look at this through, and it's quite telling: Trump and team are gonna "bring back coal."  They are rolling back as many regs as they can.  Hell, they're talking about creating incentives for coal power.

If the coal and electric generation industry thought that those changes were REAL, and that they had any chance of surviving ANY succeeding presidential term, they'd be making significant long-term investments in firing up coal generation, bringing mothballed coal generation facilities out of retirement, and the like. 

They aren't.  Sure, there are a handful of marginal plants that go back and forth.  But the INDUSTRY is not reacting in a way that says "coal is back, baby!"  Because they know that (1) Trump is mostly talk, and (2) whatever actions he takes are impetuous and not connected to any cogent or lasting policy change, so they'll likely be undone in less than 10 years, which doesn't make long-term investment a wise move.

Watch the investment dollars.  Those tell you whether a political initiative/move is legit or not.

Didn't some lefty gazilllionaire buy into the coal back when bho put them out of business?

[EastTexan 662]

15 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Well....millions of Fox News viewers did.

Until they didn't.

Most just laughed at her. And laughing still.

[EastTexan 662]

Looking for the Stormy thread. Where'd it go?

[Fozzz 152]

This illustrates what a grave crisis our nation is facing and how it is actually quite reasonable to lock children and families up in cages over a misdemeanor.  

http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/438/

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,245]

 

[retread 2,951]

We are intentionally punishing refugees, many of whom are fleeing deplorable conditions in their home countries - America 2018

Meanwhile at the WH .. 'phony stories of sadness and grief'

 

Edited June 22, 2018 by retread

[Hugo Stiglitz 23,245]

He’s so butthurt he got caught and had to back down.

[retread 2,951]

and he will probably not reunite some of the children with their parents just to show the libs