Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
3 hours ago, mooseoutfront said:

Have any of y'all considered becoming hunters to supplement your red meat needs?

Hunting and fishing provides us with 95% of our protein.  The only meat we buy regularly is bacon.  The occasional ribeye about once a month.  We live on moose, caribou, grouse, salmon, halibut, ling cod, and rock fish.

I realize that where I live provides us with way more hunting and fishing opportunities than most of you have, but providing for yourself and family is one of the more spiritual aspects of my lifestyle that most people overlook.  The bonding that my wife and I experience during the whole process is immeasurable.  

Fishing is complicated, there’s not a fresh water catch at least in the continental 48 that I would consider eating at this point. Even Rocky Mountain trout is laced with high concentrations of PFAS. It’s really demoralizing. 
 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
2 hours ago, troph said:

Fishing is complicated, there’s not a fresh water catch at least in the continental 48 that I would consider eating at this point.

Maybe it's time I get a new job. Totally read that as "fisting is complicated..."

  • Haha 1
Posted
18 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Let’s stop beating around the bush and have some people admit that they either don’t understand or don’t give a shit that the continued cultivation of cows (especially), pigs, chickens, and other livestock is decimating our environment. DECIMATING.  
 

Yeah, I love steak too man. Burgers are good. Chicken wings are a staple!  I get it. BUT. Just take it down a notch. No one has a knife to your throat saying you have to eat tempeh 6 days a week and you have to go to Whole Foods to buy kale to shove in your wife’s pussy before you can fuck it. Though I am open minded. 
 

My point is “eh, I don’t really want to go to plant based or lab grown meat because it’s weird” is a stupid and fucked up argument. It’s a moral imperative to stop eating that shit all the time. And the alternatives already taste good and are only going to get better. 
 

Eat up buttercups!  The next step if you don’t is fucking Soylent green. 

great post, and I agree 100%. Livestock is just not sustainable at current levels. I made the switch long ago to fish, chicken and the occasional pork chop / steak, like maybe once a month at most. Its healthier as well. Fish is costly, but I get a nice piece of salmon in daily, and all the good fats that come with it. 

Honestly, covid also got to me in terms of the industrialization of livestock. Its a fucking ticking time bomb for disease. Unreal that we think its ok to treat mother nature with so much disdain and she would never fight back. 

  • Hook 'Em 3
Posted (edited)

You shove an empty pringles can up in there? Mother of god I had no idea.  
 

btw did someone call their wife “it” up above? 

this world is coming to an end, kale and empty pringles cans up vajayjays. WTF is next?

don’t answer that. 

Edited by troph
Posted
3 hours ago, staboner said:

Honestly, covid also got to me in terms of the industrialization of livestock. Its a fucking ticking time bomb for disease. Unreal that we think its ok to treat mother nature with so much disdain and she would never fight back. 

Look into alpha-gal syndrome; it might be her opening salvo.

Posted
7 hours ago, troph said:

You shove an empty pringles can up in there? Mother of god I had no idea.  

That’s not how fisting works. I think you’re missing the concept. 

Posted
On 4/25/2024 at 1:14 AM, Biff Tannen said:

No one has a knife to your throat saying you have to eat tempeh 6 days a week and you have to go to Whole Foods to buy kale to shove in your wife’s pussy before you can fuck it.

Topical:

 

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Haha 1
Posted
17 hours ago, mooseoutfront said:

Have any of y'all considered becoming hunters to supplement your red meat needs?

Hunting and fishing provides us with 95% of our protein.  The only meat we buy regularly is bacon.  The occasional ribeye about once a month.  We live on moose, caribou, grouse, salmon, halibut, ling cod, and rock fish.

I realize that where I live provides us with way more hunting and fishing opportunities than most of you have, but providing for yourself and family is one of the more spiritual aspects of my lifestyle that most people overlook.  The bonding that my wife and I experience during the whole process is immeasurable.  

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I shoot but I don’t hunt, because I don’t enjoy taking life. Nevertheless, I’m getting to a point in life where ethically I think I would feel more comfortable doing that than I am with industrial scale meat.

Posted
25 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I’ve been thinking about this a lot lately. I shoot but I don’t hunt, because I don’t enjoy taking life. Nevertheless, I’m getting to a point in life where ethically I think I would feel more comfortable doing that than I am with industrial scale meat.

It would at least bring the emotional cost of eating meat - taking a life - to the forefront.  I don’t particularly enjoy venison but I’ve only had it a few times. I guess raising a cow is possible too but only with land.

I don’t particularly have an issue with killing cattle or pigs they are fully domesticated and only have life due to their food potential for humans. I think the methods of raising and slaughtering are some of the worst evidence regarding the cruelty of humans and for profit motivation though.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted

This is only tangential to the climate issue but The Omnivore’s Dilemma by Michael Pollan is a worthwhile read.

412MjiOz8VL._SL500_.jpg
 

A couple of the meals address the contrast between “industrial organic” and a more natural, holistic approach to organic farming. (I’m sure I could phrase that better if I had more time.) The final meal is all sourced by hunting and gathering. (The first meal was fast food.)

  • Like 1
Posted
4 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

It's a cultural thing for a lot of people (e.g. Italians

Absolutely.  My wife is 2nd generation Italian-American and she's the reason I appreciate food as much as I do now.  When you go to Italy, they cherish the food and it is grown/raised in sustainable ways.  They use mostly local ingredients and, while they eat meat, it's not the staple of the meal in most instances.

We are talking mainly about an American problem.  Our broad view of food and the food industry is completely fucked compared to many other countries.  It is not sustainable, healthy, or good for society in general.  

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
2 hours ago, BeardIP said:

I made a short story long here, but the point I'm trying to drive home is: food is a part of culture and culture is acted upon and experienced by and in and around people, and people make up regional populations and so disrupting that will take a lot more than just meeting the bar; it will have to go above and beyond the status quo. Fake meat and inferior substitues will have to not only be "as good" but much, much better to catch on.

In the absence of that, regulation will need to occur to change behavior IMO.

I think you're right.  And I think because of this, we are fucked.  Not just because of unsustainable food practices, but our unsustainable way of life in general.  

Posted

Sadly, there is an aspect of meat consumption statistics that nobody seems to want to talk about. People don't want to give up much meat consumption, but they'll want to give up this even less:

image.png.7eb6c53a3931c583aa13f6f11d60d664.png

UCLA Institute of the Environment and Sustainability

We're a pet-crazy nation. I like dogs and cats. The resources going to them and the damage they do is nuts. 

Stop acquiring new pets. When your beloved dog dies. Mourn it. Don't replace it. You can live without a new one just like you can live without a giant pick up truck and 20% of the meat you now consume. 

Or, people can keep doing what they're doing and pass some more consequences the the young. 

It's not a difficult guess about which way the Americans will go. We've been very consistent in our choices.

Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Sadly, there is an aspect of meat consumption statistics that nobody seems to want to talk about. People don't want to give up much meat consumption, but they'll want to give up this even less:

image.png.7eb6c53a3931c583aa13f6f11d60d664.png

UCLA Institute of the Environment and Sustainability

We're a pet-crazy nation. I like dogs and cats. The resources going to them and the damage they do is nuts. 

Stop acquiring new pets. When your beloved dog dies. Mourn it. Don't replace it. You can live without a new one just like you can live without a giant pick up truck and 20% of the meat you now consume. 

Or, people can keep doing what they're doing and pass some more consequences the the young. 

It's not a difficult guess about which way the Americans will go. We've been very consistent in our choices.

This is interesting data that I’ve honestly not thought about. However, I would also say that dogs and cats are going to keep breeding even if we “stop replacing them”, as was your suggestion. I think Bob Barker had a much better solution. 
 

Or  maybe people should stop having kids too. 

Edited by Biff Tannen
Also, dogs and cats are carnivores, whereas humans are omnivores. So not apples to apples.
Posted
1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

Sadly, there is an aspect of meat consumption statistics that nobody seems to want to talk about. People don't want to give up much meat consumption, but they'll want to give up this even less:

image.png.7eb6c53a3931c583aa13f6f11d60d664.png

UCLA Institute of the Environment and Sustainability

We're a pet-crazy nation. I like dogs and cats. The resources going to them and the damage they do is nuts. 

Stop acquiring new pets. When your beloved dog dies. Mourn it. Don't replace it. You can live without a new one just like you can live without a giant pick up truck and 20% of the meat you now consume. 

Or, people can keep doing what they're doing and pass some more consequences the the young. 

It's not a difficult guess about which way the Americans will go. We've been very consistent in our choices.

I’d rather get rid of all people before giving up my dog. 

  • Hook 'Em 3
Posted

I love my old dog -- love my young dog, too -- but I'm hoping the older one passes peacefully soon.  She's slowed down to a crawl, is clearly not comfortable, but there is no specific diagnosis the vets can identify.  Such a sweet girl.  I'm feeding her whatever she likes the most at this point, including hamburgers, salmon, cheese, you name it.

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I love my old dog -- love my young dog, too -- but I'm hoping the older one passes peacefully soon.  She's slowed down to a crawl, is clearly not comfortable, but there is no specific diagnosis the vets can identify.  Such a sweet girl.  I'm feeding her whatever she likes the most at this point, including hamburgers, salmon, cheese, you name it.

Ok, no need to cross over the dog thread here.  I can only stand so much dust.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

Sadly, there is an aspect of meat consumption statistics that nobody seems to want to talk about. People don't want to give up much meat consumption, but they'll want to give up this even less:

image.png.7eb6c53a3931c583aa13f6f11d60d664.png

UCLA Institute of the Environment and Sustainability

We're a pet-crazy nation. I like dogs and cats. The resources going to them and the damage they do is nuts. 

Stop acquiring new pets. When your beloved dog dies. Mourn it. Don't replace it. You can live without a new one just like you can live without a giant pick up truck and 20% of the meat you now consume. 

Or, people can keep doing what they're doing and pass some more consequences the the young. 

It's not a difficult guess about which way the Americans will go. We've been very consistent in our choices.

We should start by banning cats. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

We should start by banning cats. 

Hold on, what do they taste like?

EDIT:  I claim "fish"

Edited by jimmyjazz
Posted

I'm sure all the people living in the climate cataclysm will understand. 

We should curtail child births, but the DNA won't allow it. That's something nobody can stop.

We could take bolder steps regarding cars and mass transit, but it's too costly and inconvenient.

We could make owning a new pet extremely expensive through licensing, but dogs are great.

We're spoiled. We don't want to do anything that changes our status quo.

I'm not doing a lot myself. I don't eat nearly as much beef as I did, I'm careful with water (not a climate thing, but I need enough stuff for another comma), and I'm about to buy a car that gets twice as much MPG as our current main vehicle. Electric is impossible where we live.

We will be hated. Rightfully despised. I cannot be satisfied to shrug my shoulders and do absolutely nothing.

spacer.png

We don't listen, either.

Posted
2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm sure all the people living in the climate cataclysm will understand. 

We should curtail child births, but the DNA won't allow it. That's something nobody can stop.

We could take bolder steps regarding cars and mass transit, but it's too costly and inconvenient.

We could make owning a new pet extremely expensive through licensing, but dogs are great.

We're spoiled. We don't want to do anything that changes our status quo.

I'm not doing a lot myself. I don't eat nearly as much beef as I did, I'm careful with water (not a climate thing, but I need enough stuff for another comma), and I'm about to buy a car that gets twice as much MPG as our current main vehicle. Electric is impossible where we live.

We will be hated. Rightfully despised. I cannot be satisfied to shrug my shoulders and do absolutely nothing.

spacer.png

We don't listen, either.

We've chose the FAFO approach. It's a bold strategy. I've become quite the curmudgeon about basically everything, although I've learned to keep most of my thoughts in my head to prevent everyone around me from being miserable.

My inner monologue goes something like "Do we really need another strip center? Why are there so many giant goddamn pickup trucks? What is the purpose of planting a bunch of non-native grass just to pay people to use gas-chugging mowers and weedeaters to cut it every week? Why is there so much shit in my own house? Does everything need to come in plastic? Why are we all getting a bunch of bullshit delivered to our front door in 3 extra layers of packaging? Is it so hard to have recycling bins available? Oh yea, because people can't even be trusted to walk 3 feet to throw something in a trash can when they can just leave it at there feet."

It would be nice if we as a society showed some urgency in solving any of the myriad issues contributing to climate change, but having stuff and never being inconvenienced are what we value most.

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Rage+1 2
Posted
4 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Why are my dogs bad for the environment?

Same reasons humans are bad for the environment except the dog per se isn’t the problem - we are and we have too many, we feed them meat and the dog food industry is disgusting. 
 

dogs or no dogs is not where this battle gets won. It gets won on innovation, mass migration away from carbon based energy (electricity and fuel), new and improved energy storage techniques, carbon capture and sequestration, and elimination of petroleum based plastics.  There is more but if we do that we are well on our way and our dogs keep getting belly rubs and treats.

we already have the answers for most of this, what we lack is political will. Individual will won’t get it done, as much as we each try, it’s got to be governmental and industry initiatives and mandates.

coming at people for having dogs is simply barking up the wrong tree.  

  • Hook 'Em 4
Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yup. So it ain’t gonna happen. 

It’s going to happen just too late. There are changes happening just not enough. China EV adoption rate and their clean energy projects are very impressive, as an example. Europe and US initiatives are accelerating as well. Industry innovation is extremely promising. We could ban petroleum plastic bags now and go with fully biodegradable bags. There is tons of technology waiting to be relied upon. But in the end, as we humans do, we react way too late to the problem. These solutions are 20 years too late and soon to be 30-50 years too late.

Edited by troph
Posted

I just spent the week talking about climate impact primarily in East Africa and the Pacific islands. I was traveling with an Australian and Kiwi for this conference. Society for International Development's annual conference. Climate was a big topic, right under governance. What surprised me was the lack of companies with innovation and technology. For instance, there are some great tools for water (irrigation and for people) that are quite effective and not as expensive as many think. They were not there. What was there were quite a few tech companies selling AI for proposals and reports. Aid companies have to do a lot of that shit (think TPS reports about Malaria) and it eats up field time. I have an issue with AI in the proposal, planning and solution development areas. I review a lot of them and I can tell what clients use AI. They go for more grants, sure, but their solutions and approach seem to be always the same. There is little in human innovation in these.

I know on this thread we talk about large sized projects (desal, solar, etc.) but there are a lot of small things that can be done. They are not easy and many times take a cultural mind change for the benefiting community. The development world is a great place to begin and test new concepts. Their need is a lot less than the average Americans. There is not any St. Augustine in Darfur, but they do need to grow food. Test these new techs and customize them for small er needs. Solar? A "home" in Kenya wants 2 light bulbs. Don't care about keeping their house at 69 degrees.

The issue I have been asked to focus on is ocean and the impact on the South Pacific islands. Yep, water is rising, but the amount of trash that floats in the pacific impacting these islands is tremendous. Bays so full local fishing is not possible. I see climate like this. Everything impacts something else. So to do these large projects we must increase the supporting infrastructure. Thinking like this sure can keep you awake at night.

Rant over. Was thinking about this thread all week and wish I could have reached out for some ideas.

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 1
Posted
2 hours ago, troph said:

Same reasons humans are bad for the environment except the dog per se isn’t the problem - we are and we have too many, we feed them meat and the dog food industry is disgusting. 
 

dogs or no dogs is not where this battle gets won. It gets won on innovation, mass migration away from carbon based energy (electricity and fuel), new and improved energy storage techniques, carbon capture and sequestration, and elimination of petroleum based plastics.  There is more but if we do that we are well on our way and our dogs keep getting belly rubs and treats.

we already have the answers for most of this, what we lack is political will. Individual will won’t get it done, as much as we each try, it’s got to be governmental and industry initiatives and mandates.

coming at people for having dogs is simply barking up the wrong tree.  

Nobody in this country is going to do any of that until forced to. Most can't even be bothered to read your clear summary made in a digestible paragraph.

People will choose their dogs over their grandchildren. In fact, they are doing just that as well as choosing hamburgers, needlessly large vehicles, or anything else they believe they're entitled to.

Frankly, it seems like we've already impacted nature enough that we won't be able to prevent climate disaster. The melting permafrost is a gigantice problem, and there is nothing to be done about it now.

Discomfort, pain, or fear force change. By the time climate change evokes any of those, it will be too late.

I like dogs. I just don't like them above everything else. Your statement about the battle not being won by addressing the statistics quoted on the last page is not much different than saying, "Me giving up beef five days a week won't make any difference?"

Posted
28 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Nobody in this country is going to do any of that until forced to. Most can't even be bothered to read your clear summary made in a digestible paragraph.

People will choose their dogs over their grandchildren. In fact, they are doing just that as well as choosing hamburgers, needlessly large vehicles, or anything else they believe they're entitled to.

Frankly, it seems like we've already impacted nature enough that we won't be able to prevent climate disaster. The melting permafrost is a gigantice problem, and there is nothing to be done about it now.

Discomfort, pain, or fear force change. By the time climate change evokes any of those, it will be too late.

I like dogs. I just don't like them above everything else. Your statement about the battle not being won by addressing the statistics quoted on the last page is not much different than saying, "Me giving up beef five days a week won't make any difference?"

I agree with most of your post, I just think you’re not considering all the variables in your “give up your dogs” solution. For example, I don’t have kids. I have three dogs that weigh a combined 50 pounds. You suggesting I give them up to fight climate change is asinine. Their meat consumption is far less than most. In fact, since I often don’t eat meat, and my wife never does, our household is probably below most households by a large margin. I’m not choosing my dogs over my grandchildren. Why can’t we instill a one child policy? That would cut down on meat consumption, wouldn’t it? We don’t do that because that suggestion is just as asinine. If you want to propose household meat rations, go for it. It wouldn’t bother my house one bit. We love Tofu. It’s just a little silly considering we can barely pass laws to prevent companies from pouring toxic waste into rivers. 

Climate Change will be solved by solutions already mentioned. Reduction of fossil based energy, reduction of plastics, reduction of consumption culture, and changes in food production and consumption. 

Why won’t it happen? Because humans celebrate stupidity. 

Posted
32 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I just think you’re not considering all the variables in your “give up your dogs” solution. For example, I don’t have kids. I have three dogs that weigh a combined 50 pounds. You suggesting I give them up to fight climate change is asinine.

I never suggest such a thing. I specifically state that all current pets should carry on as they are. Acquiring new pets would be discouraged by high licensing fees or something.

Your argument for keeping pets in general is the same as not giving up eating some beef.

I've made my point. Emotions are triggered which I don't care to engage.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
30 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I never suggest such a thing. I specifically state that all current pets should carry on as they are. Acquiring new pets would be discouraged by high licensing fees or something.

Your argument for keeping pets in general is the same as not giving up eating some beef.

I've made my point. Emotions are triggered which I don't care to engage.

So what was your proposal for all of the unregulated breeding (i.e. strays) that cannot be stopped?  Poison them all?  Shoot them like Kristi Noem?

This is a dumb conversation.  Let's move on.  

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Climate Change will be solved by solutions already mentioned. Reduction of fossil based energy, reduction of plastics, reduction of consumption culture, and changes in food production and consumption. 

This is where we have to focus our efforts.  

Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Your argument for keeping pets in general is the same as not giving up eating some beef.

 

Reducing meat consumption is a good goal. I agree with you. Your plan to reduce meat consumption is dumb. Here’s an olive branch. Don’t you think requiring dog food to be plant based is a better solution than charge high fees for new pets?

Edited by Neonmoon


×
×
  • Create New...