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Posted
5 minutes ago, UTEE97 said:

Arch can't seem to control the velocity in his throws. His deep throws are beautiful but short and intermediate ones are hard to catch because he doesn't take anything off. Quinn was the opposite. 

To me, that screams nerves.  Just trying to get the ball out as quickly as he can in the face of a collapsing pocket.  So, maybe.....get him out of the pocket and buy him some time....

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I believe he was like 81-83% on short passes according to Scipio last year. 

Thanks. Seems better. I wonder how he completely forgot how to throw in the short game.

Posted
1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

To me, that screams nerves.  Just trying to get the ball out as quickly as he can in the face of a collapsing pocket.  So, maybe.....get him out of the pocket and buy him some time....

Yep. I was telling my kid this the whole game. Get him out of the pocket, mobile. Get him into the flow, using his legs. That was when I wasn't saying they should have started him off early with easy pass plays to get him into a rhythm.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

To me, that screams nerves.  Just trying to get the ball out as quickly as he can in the face of a collapsing pocket.  So, maybe.....get him out of the pocket and buy him some time....

I think Babers said Arch was actually best in straight drop back. Thinking about it, it makes some sense. His mechanics were off all game. Straight drop back you dont have too much to worry about with your footwork, opposed to play action and throwing on the run. 

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Posted
Just now, wood said:

Yep. I was telling my kid this the whole game. Get him out of the pocket, mobile. Get him into the flow, using his legs. That was when I wasn't saying they should have started him off early with easy pass plays to get him into a rhythm.

And to sarks credit the first throw was a rollout.  Arch just missed

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Posted
Just now, Codaxx said:

I think Babers said Arch was actually best in straight drop back. Thinking about it, it makes some sense. His mechanics were off all game. Straight drop back you dont have too much to worry about with your footwork, opposed to play action and throwing on the run. 

This. I couldn't put my finger on it, but he just never looked 'right' to me. Maybe a nagging injury or some weird kink in his mechanics has popped up? Who knows. But he always looked relaxed and loose last year. He never looked that way last Saturday.

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Posted
1 minute ago, wood said:

This. I couldn't put my finger on it, but he just never looked 'right' to me. Maybe a nagging injury or some weird kink in his mechanics has popped up? Who knows. But he always looked relaxed and loose last year. He never looked that way last Saturday.

i'm not saying if he was hurt or not but i don't remember seeing him do the "row" anywhere as often last year as he did saturday. pulled some of the all plays videos from last year and didn't see him doing it in them either. just seems...not great. 

again, may be just uncomfortable with the game @ the shoe, or may be something more 

Posted
13 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

I think Babers said Arch was actually best in straight drop back. Thinking about it, it makes some sense. His mechanics were off all game. Straight drop back you dont have too much to worry about with your footwork, opposed to play action and throwing on the run. 

Babers had some great breakdown and stats or just how vanilla Sark was as well

Posted

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  It was a Herculean task to go in untested, as the #1 team in the country, facing the reigning champions at their house for the first game of the season.  if this shit doesn't get fixed, them I'm going to flip out and start breaking shit.  

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Posted (edited)

Ohio state was also aligning and rushing to limit his ability to move outside of the pocket. 
 

For the people thinking Milwee has anything significant to do with his mechanics, remember he’s been getting trained by David Morris for more than a decade now. Shit, many D1 athletes have their own personal coaches/trainers these days. 

Edited by Atticus
Posted
1 minute ago, BabaYaga said:

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  It was a Herculean task to go in untested, as the #1 team in the country, facing the reigning champions at their house for the first game of the season.  if this shit doesn't get fixed, them I'm going to flip out and start breaking shit.  

Patricia had a great gameplan and Sark/Arch got NFL'ed. That doesn't explain the stuff that we were able to control that went so poorly. We had what we needed to win but we needed Arch to be the guy and he just wasn't. He was missing throws you just cant miss. Very concerning. We are still going to be a good team but our whole offense is clearly a work in progress and that doesnt cut it if youre talking about a championship. I think you'll see a different Arch/offense by the time we get to Gainesville but its wait and see for any sort of expectations at this point. Wouldnt be the first time a young QB shits the bed against elite competition, especially in the first game. 

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Posted
4 hours ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Did any of that remind you of Garrett Gilbert?

 

Yes.  Ian Boyd got mad at me for it.  I'm not saying Arch will end up like Garret, but that one game, he was closer to Garret than Colt

Posted
4 minutes ago, Monahorns said:

 

Yes.  Ian Boyd got mad at me for it.  I'm not saying Arch will end up like Garret, but that one game, he was closer to Garret than Colt

I am admittedly too lazy to do this, but Colt's first career start with Texas was also vs tOSU at home.  I was there and remember being sorely underwhelmed as Colt looked like you'd expect a RS freshmen to look like in the loss.  Hi stat's and film (most importantly) must be out there to compare with

Posted
3 minutes ago, Monahorns said:

 

Yes.  Ian Boyd got mad at me for it.  I'm not saying Arch will end up like Garret, but that one game, he was closer to Garret than Colt

Not really disagreeing with your sentiment but this game reminded me a lot of Colt's first big game when we hosted.............Ohio State. Their state lines are almost identical. 

Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I am admittedly too lazy to do this, but Colt's first career start with Texas was also vs tOSU at home.  I was there and remember being sorely underwhelmed as Colt looked like you'd expect a RS freshmen to look like in the loss.  Hi stat's and film (most importantly) must be out there to compare with

No he started one game before that against a cupcake. And his first pass (or maybe second or third, but def first drive I believe) was a perfect strike on a slant down the seam that went to the house. Maybe someone can find a video of that  

 

Just sayin. Colt was always accurate and it was obvious from his first drive as a starter.

 

Edited by tbone_
Posted
6 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I am admittedly too lazy to do this, but Colt's first career start with Texas was also vs tOSU at home.  I was there and remember being sorely underwhelmed as Colt looked like you'd expect a RS freshmen to look like in the loss.  Hi stat's and film (most importantly) must be out there to compare with

IIRC Jamal fumbled at the goal line 

Posted
11 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I am admittedly too lazy to do this, but Colt's first career start with Texas was also vs tOSU at home.  I was there and remember being sorely underwhelmed as Colt looked like you'd expect a RS freshmen to look like in the loss.  Hi stat's and film (most importantly) must be out there to compare with

Colt was 19-32 for 154 yards, 1 TD, and 1 int. Similarly shitty stats. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, jdhorn92 said:

IIRC Jamal fumbled at the goal line 

Got it.  19/32.  One TD.  One INT.  TOP and 3rd down conversions as well as yardage eerily similar.  Yds per pass quite different.  

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Posted
22 minutes ago, BlackCat said:

Not really disagreeing with your sentiment but this game reminded me a lot of Colt's first big game when we hosted.............Ohio State. Their state lines are almost identical. 

 

Yeah. I see that.  Hopefully he trends like Colt did. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think people saying he might be injured are just looking for excuses so they don't have to admit he didn't live up to the moment.

So what you're saying is.....

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think people saying he might be injured are just looking for excuses so they don't have to admit he didn't live up to the moment.

He def didn't live up to the moment, injured or not. I'm not trying to make excuses for him at all. He just definitely wasn't loose at all, and in the past I've always been struck bny how relaxed he always looked.

Posted
22 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think people saying he might be injured are just looking for excuses so they don't have to admit he didn't live up to the moment.

 

11 minutes ago, wood said:

He def didn't live up to the moment, injured or not. I'm not trying to make excuses for him at all. He just definitely wasn't loose at all, and in the past I've always been struck bny how relaxed he always looked.

Yeah I think people saying he might be injured are saying it because he just looked so totally different from how we've seen him in the past.  Especially that odd sidearm delivery.

 

 

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Posted

lotta good points made here by ryan clark. the only thing he doesn’t touch, which we still can’t explain, is why arch looked so different with his throwing motion last weekend. is he hurt? we don’t know. but other than that, there’s a lot to marinate on in here:

 

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Posted
7 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Man, like others, I hope OSU was a bizarre anomaly.  But my lingering Battered Longhorn Syndrome tells me we might be fucked.

yeah, lots of people already saying that this will be a one-off and that we will batter the next several teams in front of us, but i’d be lying if i said that performance didn’t scare me. he did not look like the same arch that we saw last year, both in his throwing motion and in his overall performance. if he comes out and completes 75% of his passes and drops 330 on sjsu then that’ll go a long way towards making me feel better, but if he struggles again, and if that janky arm motion is back, this could be a nightmare season. trying to not to go full panic mode until we’ve got more evidence, but like you said, BLS is in full effect. 

Posted
5 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

Arch isn't injured. We've got to nip this stupid shit in the bud. 

 

if he hadn’t recovered so well in the 4q i’d be really worried. that throwing motion he had going was awkward as hell, and the way that he under threw so many guys definitely warranted injury speculation.

Posted
1 hour ago, BlackCat said:

Patricia had a great gameplan and Sark/Arch got NFL'ed. That doesn't explain the stuff that we were able to control that went so poorly. We had what we needed to win but we needed Arch to be the guy and he just wasn't. He was missing throws you just cant miss. Very concerning. We are still going to be a good team but our whole offense is clearly a work in progress and that doesnt cut it if youre talking about a championship. I think you'll see a different Arch/offense by the time we get to Gainesville but its wait and see for any sort of expectations at this point. Wouldnt be the first time a young QB shits the bed against elite competition, especially in the first game. 

I'm pretty convinced that good NFL coaches are miles ahead of most college coaches. An average/good NFL coordinator usually seems elite in college..

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Posted
1 minute ago, Derka said:

lotta good points made here by ryan clark. the only thing he doesn’t touch, which we still can’t explain, is why arch looked so different with his throwing motion last weekend. is he hurt? we don’t know. but other than that, there’s a lot to marinate on in here:

 

Derka i'm not attacking you here, so please don't take it that way. This take from Ryan Clark about the generational talent is pretty fucking stupid though. Recruiting services and every school in the country all agreed that he was the best QB in his class. He had a 1.000 rating for fucks sake. His arm talent is on the same tier as Lawrence, Andrew Luck, etc. Anyone who saw him play all agreed. What we're just going to fucking act like that didn't happen? How is there any evidence that he isn't a generational player? There is absolutely zero evidence that Bryce Underwood is a generational talent. The Michigan QB room was a dumpster fire. You don't pay someone that much to sit the bench. The family said from the beginning that he was going to sit and take his time - there was no rush. If there is a problem with Arch I think it was that his family allowed him just to sit back and learn rather than push him to take the job from Quinn.

This response is just as reactionary and stupid as those who hyped him to the moon. The kid sucked ass last weekend and deserves his lumps but he also deserves the benefit of time as the starter and time to learn. You can count on 1 hand the number of QBs in college who make that throw down the sideline in the 4th quarter. Ryan Clark can miss me with this bullshit. 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, utee94 said:

 

Yeah I think people saying he might be injured are saying it because he just looked so totally different from how we've seen him in the past.  Especially that odd sidearm delivery.

 

 

Agreed. His throwing motion is already a little wonky and him trying to do the side arm stuff is going to highlight that even more. Philip Rivers’ throwing motion was akin to the mechanics of a trebuchet and any time he went off platform it looked awful. Arch isn’t as bad as Rivers though. 

Posted
1 minute ago, Derka said:

if he hadn’t recovered so well in the 4q i’d be really worried. that throwing motion he had going was awkward as hell, and the way that he under threw so many guys definitely warranted injury speculation.

Not the best analogy, but I've been to a few IPSC events in my day.  Specifically the handgun/timer events.  If you want to see someone melt into a puddle.  Give them a difficult task under time.  I've seen guys that looked as clean and smooth as I've ever seen, immediately become discombobulated and lose all coordination.  Their prior skill went right out the window.  Even seen guys unable to holster after firing.  That timer just wrecks people.  Or hunters, we all know about "Buck fever".  Your hands start shaking.  You can't focus, aim, or do much else.  Adrenaline is a bitch.  

The point being all "mechanics" go out the window in the face of immense pressure.  It takes time and exposure to control in.  You can't simulate it.  You just have to inculcate yourself as best you can.  

2005 Vince went into the horseshoe and pulled it off.  2003 Vince, I highly doubt it.  

I'm not about to give up on Arch, but Sark needs to make the proper adjustments to put him in the right place with the right plays.  And get a fucking O-Coordinator already.  

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Posted
9 minutes ago, Derka said:

if he hadn’t recovered so well in the 4q i’d be really worried. that throwing motion he had going was awkward as hell, and the way that he under threw so many guys definitely warranted injury speculation.

Not really. The majority if not all of his bad throws were mechanically bad from the ground up. If someone has a hurt arm their foot work shouldn’t be impacted on the majority of their throws. 

Posted
57 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I think people saying he might be injured are just looking for excuses so they don't have to admit he didn't live up to the moment.

That's what she said. 

Posted
6 minutes ago, Noozak said:

Derka i'm not attacking you here, so please don't take it that way. This take from Ryan Clark about the generational talent is pretty fucking stupid though. Recruiting services and every school in the country all agreed that he was the best QB in his class. He had a 1.000 rating for fucks sake. His arm talent is on the same tier as Lawrence, Andrew Luck, etc. Anyone who saw him play all agreed. What we're just going to fucking act like that didn't happen? How is there any evidence that he isn't a generational player? There is absolutely zero evidence that Bryce Underwood is a generational talent. The Michigan QB room was a dumpster fire. You don't pay someone that much to sit the bench. The family said from the beginning that he was going to sit and take his time - there was no rush. If there is a problem with Arch I think it was that his family allowed him just to sit back and learn rather than push him to take the job from Quinn.

This response is just as reactionary and stupid as those who hyped him to the moon. The kid sucked ass last weekend and deserves his lumps but he also deserves the benefit of time as the starter and time to learn. You can count on 1 hand the number of QBs in college who make that throw down the sideline in the 4th quarter. Ryan Clark can miss me with this bullshit. 

I generally like RC and listen to his Pivot podcast when I can.  I also think he's trying to be too much to generate "hot takes" and stir people up.. Wait and see takes don't generate clicks.  

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Levi said:

Not really. The majority if not all of his bad throws were mechanically bad from the ground up. If someone has a hurt arm their foot work shouldn’t be impacted on the majority of their throws. 

your footwork can change in an attempt to take pressure off of a hurt shoulder, for example. it’s basically par for the course for one injured body part to lead to leaning on other parts more than you otherwise would. when you spend the entire offseason picturing a bigger, stronger, better version of the arch we saw last year and all of a sudden his throwing motion sucks and he looks like a totally different guy, you’re naturally going to wonder if he’s got some sort of injury. 

Posted
10 minutes ago, Noozak said:

Derka i'm not attacking you here, so please don't take it that way. This take from Ryan Clark about the generational talent is pretty fucking stupid though. Recruiting services and every school in the country all agreed that he was the best QB in his class. He had a 1.000 rating for fucks sake. His arm talent is on the same tier as Lawrence, Andrew Luck, etc. Anyone who saw him play all agreed. What we're just going to fucking act like that didn't happen? How is there any evidence that he isn't a generational player? There is absolutely zero evidence that Bryce Underwood is a generational talent. The Michigan QB room was a dumpster fire. You don't pay someone that much to sit the bench. The family said from the beginning that he was going to sit and take his time - there was no rush. If there is a problem with Arch I think it was that his family allowed him just to sit back and learn rather than push him to take the job from Quinn.

This response is just as reactionary and stupid as those who hyped him to the moon. The kid sucked ass last weekend and deserves his lumps but he also deserves the benefit of time as the starter and time to learn. You can count on 1 hand the number of QBs in college who make that throw down the sideline in the 4th quarter. Ryan Clark can miss me with this bullshit. 

Arch got blown out by University Lab his last game. I dont follow LA HS football, but historically that is very good HS program and a complete talent mismatch 

Posted
28 minutes ago, Derka said:

lotta good points made here by ryan clark. the only thing he doesn’t touch, which we still can’t explain, is why arch looked so different with his throwing motion last weekend. is he hurt? we don’t know. but other than that, there’s a lot to marinate on in here:

 

He did a good job of hitting the trifecta of talking points you hear from anyone with half a brain:

1. Questioned why his HS team got blown out in the playoffs if Arch is so good. lol

2. If he is so good why didn't he start last year. Check

3. Said if he was truly competitive and wanted to show he was the best, he would have competed at Elite 11. Nailed it.

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Posted
22 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

The most it will tell us is if we struggle. Beating up on shit schools doesn’t tell you anything about your team. 

Well that's great news because I don't have any wonders that include the team. Only Arch. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Derka said:

your footwork can change in an attempt to take pressure off of a hurt shoulder, for example. it’s basically par for the course for one injured body part to lead to leaning on other parts more than you otherwise would. when you spend the entire offseason picturing a bigger, stronger, better version of the arch we saw last year and all of a sudden his throwing motion sucks and he looks like a totally different guy, you’re naturally going to wonder if he’s got some sort of injury. 

That would only make sense if Arch wasn’t able to make long, on a rope throws. The drop to Endries and the rope to Wingo in the fourth are good examples of throws that he would not be able to make if he was injured. He was also over throwing WRs with zip on the ball as well. Like I said, a common theme of his bad throws was bad mechanics from the ground up. All of Arch’s good throws had good mechanics.

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

He did a good job of hitting the trifecta of talking points you hear from anyone with half a brain:

1. Questioned why his HS team got blown out in the playoffs if Arch is so good. lol

2. If he is so good why didn't he start last year. Check

3. Said if he was truly competitive and wanted to show he was the best, he would have competed at Elite 11. Nailed it.

i saw some film from arch’s senior year and it was shocking how bad his competition was. it looked like he was facing SPC competition (southwest preparatory conference, eg st.andrews, st.stephens, regents). you’d think that any team with him on it would sleepwalk to an undefeated season and state title. i couldn’t believe that his family didn’t have him facing better competition.

Posted

Hot take culture has ruined sports conversations. External build-up and tear down. 

Arch played like shit on Saturday. If one throw late goes for a touchdown, we go to overtime, get a pick 6 and win the game, Ryan Clark is not spouting this bullshit. Would Arch still have played a overall poor game in that scenario? Yes. But all of this tearing down right now is mainly because we lost the game. 

Peyton and Eli got a ton of reps in college and each played 4 years. They both went to Newman and played 2A ball against shit competition. Arch is continuing the Manning process. Peyton and Eli are not "generational" due to their physical talents. It's what's in between the ears, and that's clearly what Arch needs to improve on at the moment, and that comes with game reps. 

 

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