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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted

From the New York Times Editorial Board https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/biden-election-debate-trump.html

Quote

To Serve His Country, President Biden Should Leave the Race

President Biden has repeatedly and rightfully described the stakes in this November’s presidential election as nothing less than the future of American democracy.

Donald Trump has proved himself to be a significant jeopardy to that democracy — an erratic and self-interested figure unworthy of the public trust. He systematically attempted to undermine the integrity of elections. His supporters have described, publicly, a 2025 agenda that would give him the power to carry out the most extreme of his promises and threats. If he is returned to office, he has vowed to be a different kind of president, unrestrained by the checks on power built into the American political system.

Mr. Biden has said that he is the candidate with the best chance of taking on this threat of tyranny and defeating it. His argument rests largely on the fact that he beat Mr. Trump in 2020. That is no longer a sufficient rationale for why Mr. Biden should be the Democratic nominee this year.

At Thursday’s debate, the president needed to convince the American public that he was equal to the formidable demands of the office he is seeking to hold for another term. Voters, however, cannot be expected to ignore what was instead plain to see: Mr. Biden is not the man he was four years ago.

The president appeared on Thursday night as the shadow of a great public servant. He struggled to explain what he would accomplish in a second term. He struggled to respond to Mr. Trump’s provocations. He struggled to hold Mr. Trump accountable for his lies, his failures and his chilling plans. More than once, he struggled to make it to the end of a sentence.

Mr. Biden has been an admirable president. Under his leadership, the nation has prospered and begun to address a range of long-term challenges, and the wounds ripped open by Mr. Trump have begun to heal. But the greatest public service Mr. Biden can now perform is to announce that he will not continue to run for re-election.

As it stands, the president is engaged in a reckless gamble. There are Democratic leaders better equipped to present clear, compelling and energetic alternatives to a second Trump presidency. There is no reason for the party to risk the stability and security of the country by forcing voters to choose between Mr. Trump’s deficiencies and those of Mr. Biden. It’s too big a bet to simply hope Americans will overlook or discount Mr. Biden’s age and infirmity that they see with their own eyes.

If the race comes down to a choice between Mr. Trump and Mr. Biden, the sitting president would be this board’s unequivocal pick. That is how much of a danger Mr. Trump poses. But given that very danger, the stakes for the country and the uneven abilities of Mr. Biden, the United States needs a stronger opponent to the presumptive Republican nominee. To make a call for a new Democratic nominee this late in a campaign is a decision not taken lightly, but it reflects the scale and seriousness of Mr. Trump’s challenge to the values and institutions of this country and the inadequacy of Mr. Biden to confront him.

Ending his candidacy would be against all of Mr. Biden’s personal and political instincts. He has picked himself up from tragedies and setbacks in the past and clearly believes he can do so again. Supporters of the president are already explaining away Thursday’s debate as one data point compared with three years of accomplishments. But the president’s performance cannot be written off as a bad night or blamed on a supposed cold, because it affirmed concerns that have been mounting for months or even years. Even when Mr. Biden tried to lay out his policy proposals, he stumbled. It cannot be outweighed by other public appearances because he has limited and carefully controlled his public appearances.

It should be remembered that Mr. Biden challenged Mr. Trump to this verbal duel. He set the rules, and he insisted on a date months earlier than any previous general election debate. He understood that he needed to address longstanding public concerns about his mental acuity and that he needed to do so as soon as possible.

The truth Mr. Biden needs to confront now is that he failed his own test.

In polls and interviews, voters say they are seeking fresh voices to take on Mr. Trump. And the consolation for Mr. Biden and his supporters is that there is still time to rally behind a different candidate. While Americans are conditioned to the long slog of multiyear presidential elections, in many democracies, campaigns are staged in the space of a few months.

It is a tragedy that Republicans themselves are not engaged in deeper soul-searching after Thursday’s debate. Mr. Trump’s own performance ought to be regarded as disqualifying. He lied brazenly and repeatedly about his own actions, his record as president and his opponent. He described plans that would harm the American economy, undermine civil liberties and fray America’s relationships with other nations. He refused to promise that he would accept defeat, returning instead to the kind of rhetoric that incited the Jan. 6 attack on Congress.

The Republican Party, however, has been co-opted by Mr. Trump’s ambitions. The burden rests on the Democratic Party to put the interests of the nation above the ambitions of a single man.

Democrats who have deferred to Mr. Biden must now find the courage to speak plain truths to the party’s leader. The confidantes and aides who have encouraged the president’s candidacy, and who sheltered him from unscripted appearances in public, should recognize the damage to Mr. Biden’s standing and the unlikelihood that he can repair it.

Mr. Biden answered an urgent question on Thursday night. It was not the answer that he and his supporters were hoping for. But if the risk of a second Trump term is as great as he says it is — and we agree with him that the danger is enormous — then his dedication to this country leaves him and his party only one choice.

The clearest path for Democrats to defeat a candidate defined by his lies is to deal truthfully with the American public: acknowledge that Mr. Biden can’t continue his race, and create a process to select someone more capable to stand in his place to defeat Mr. Trump in November.

It is the best chance to protect the soul of the nation — the cause that drew Mr. Biden to run for the presidency in 2019 — from the malign warping of Mr. Trump. And it is the best service that Mr. Biden can provide to a country that he has nobly served for so long.

I am stunned. 

Posted

Trump is getting raked for lying. Initial polls are unchanged, Biden got a nice fundraising bump and he looked GOOD today. Total attack mode. I’m off the ledge a little bit. I think we were so aghast at Biden we didn’t really see exactly how awful Trump was.

today Biden said, “I don’t talk as smooth as I used to, I don’t debate as well as I used to, but you know what I still know how to do? TELL THE TRUTH.”

it was an incredible zinger.

he repeated the “morals of an alley cat” line and he hammered him as a convicted felon, liar, sexual assaulter, and more.

it was good. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, troph said:

Y’all see Biden’s stump speech in NC today? 
 

Home Run Baseball GIF by MLB

The problem with this analogy is Biden  crushed a dinger during batting practice (friendly crowd, teleprompter). 

Last night he went 0-4 with a double play, two 3 pitch strike outs, and a weak come backer. 
 

Edited by Bateshorn
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Posted
4 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

From the New York Times Editorial Board https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/biden-election-debate-trump.html

I am stunned. 

That they would still unequivocally endorse Biden. You shouldn’t be. Trump is a pariah. 

Just now, Bateshorn said:

The problem with this analogy is Biden  crushed a finger during batting practice (friendly crowd, teleprompter). 

Last night he went 0-4 with a double play, a two 3 pitch strike outs, and a weak come backer. 
 

I’m not suggesting they are the same. 

Posted

I mean I would ask the NYT to resign from top to bottom for failing the country before I would ask Biden who only wins elections.

The country is fucked fascists on one side neurotic ninnies on the other. Its no wonder Germany did what they did.

Posted
7 minutes ago, HRSchenker said:

From the New York Times Editorial Board https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/28/opinion/biden-election-debate-trump.html

I am stunned. 

Fucking stupid and reactionary and meant to jump on a bandwagon to get eyeballs.

The press has absolutely failed this country.  Hell, I'm actually starting to find myself agreeing with Trump: they ARE the enemy of the people.

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Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:

The press has absolutely failed this country.  Hell, I'm actually starting to find myself agreeing with Trump: they ARE the enemy of the people

I never thought I'd see the day but damn if I'm not coming to that viewpoint as well

Posted
1 hour ago, Ghost of LL said:

I don't understand why so many Democrats out there seem bound and determined to deny reality.

Because it's up to Joe Biden to drop out of the race.

What do you think the chances of that are?

Posted
45 minutes ago, Goredho said:

And I blame the dems for their only plan A being a shit show.  If there is no plan B, your plan A to stop the destruction of American democracy better be fucking sound.  It is not.

It wasn't in 2020.

Posted
38 minutes ago, G650 said:

I never thought I'd see the day but damn if I'm not coming to that viewpoint as well

Oh been there for a while. More enshittening - the news has become alt right because that’s what makes the money. 

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Posted
54 minutes ago, linux said:

Again there is no plan B, because plan B is impossible not only are electors legally bound to vote for Biden, even if he released them you have to have primaries otherwise it is a democrat civil war

They're not legally bound.  They're bound under the Rules of the Convention.  Guess what a majority of the Convention can do--change the fucking rules.

But that's not ideal.  Far from it.  That's why it would be far better for Biden to step down.  But to do that, he needs to have people like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in his ear telling him it's time to do that.  And that doesn't seem to be happening right now.  But were it to happen, I suspect he might agree.

So no--there is currently no Plan B.  But that just means we need to start figuring out a Plan B right fucking pronto.

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Posted
54 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

If we got that Joe last night, this election would be over.

A lot of yall keep saying this because yall have apparently gone insane.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

I agree 100% with everything you just typed.  Joe Biden is undoubtedly the best president of my lifetime.  And to be honest, it isn't even particularly close.  There are things I would wish had been done better.  But the list of accomplishments in 3.5 years is pretty remarkable.

And now it's time for him to do one more thing for his country--stand down.  Give a gracious speech from the Oval about how it's time to pass the torch to a new generation.  Channel JFK's First Inaugural, except instead of being the torch-recipient, speak as the torch-passer.  It would breathe new life into the campaign.  It would give the Democratic candidate an unbelievable advantage of not just being not old, but also of being the basis for excitement for the future.  It would defeat Trump.

It would save the Republic.

I’m a few beers deep, but this is the type of thinking that has typified democratic policy my whole life. I hope he gets up at the next debate and tells trump to fuck off.  Don’t be scared. 
 

besides that, if he steps aside the dems lose. Who else beats trump? The best president of the last 50 years or an unknown.  For a smart guy I don’t fucking get this take at all. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

They're not legally bound.  They're bound under the Rules of the Convention.  Guess what a majority of the Convention can do--change the fucking rules.

But that's not ideal.  Far from it.  That's why it would be far better for Biden to step down.  But to do that, he needs to have people like Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer in his ear telling him it's time to do that.  And that doesn't seem to be happening right now.  But were it to happen, I suspect he might agree.

So no--there is currently no Plan B.  But that just means we need to start figuring out a Plan B right fucking pronto.

Lets pretend he croaks tomorrow and they are released what is your plan?

Posted
1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer

Or he needs Harris to tell him she won’t seek the nomination.  If Harris is willing to be VP on any of the speculated nominees tickets the whole thing would be so much easier.

That said, and this sounds silly but it would settle some of the Kamala problem, get Oprah on board as VP for whoever.  

Posted
7 minutes ago, linux said:

Lets pretend he croaks tomorrow and they are released what is your plan?

If he croaks tomorrow, then Harris is POTUS and would presumably be the nominee.

Posted
1 minute ago, Ghost of LL said:

If he croaks tomorrow, then Harris is POTUS and would presumably be the nominee.

I mean that is the same as Biden right now but lets follow through.

What happens to the voters that prefer Newsom? Or Whitmer? or Bernie?

How do you convince them that a person that has never won a primary that she will beat Trump in an election? Gavin does not have a victory either in a primary so it boils down if wining the senate in Cali is more relevant than governorship, then you have Bernie that at least won a primary.

At the end of the day the primaries are of a tool of "shut the fuck up" ore than they are a smart means to pick a candidate. The winer tells the loser that he does not have the votes. And the loser side shuts the fuck up.

What we would get is a backroom deal that fraction of the voter base will reject.

In short I hope biden survives until it is too late to pretend there is an option to change, and if he dies in Oct we ride Harris cause that is what the convention said.

Nightmare fuel is the democratic civil war.

Posted
2 hours ago, linux said:

Democrats have won every single election since Roe v Wade, and only lost one legit competitive election since Jan 6 (Va gov), people panicking are doing Trump a favor.

What elections are you referring to? 

Posted
Just now, MrBig said:

What elections are you referring to? 

Warnock Ossof in 2021

Senate elections during midterms to keep the senate

Competitive Governorship for the rest. 

Again only really lost Va.

 

Of course deeply unbalanced races don't reall count I am neither counting the Newsom Recall or Abbott or Desantis winning, real close races are what matter. What used to be called bellweather counties before the Trump reorganization.

Posted
4 minutes ago, linux said:

I mean that is the same as Biden right now but lets follow through.

What happens to the voters that prefer Newsom? Or Whitmer? or Bernie?

How do you convince them that a person that has never won a primary that she will beat Trump in an election? Gavin does not have a victory either in a primary so it boils down if wining the senate in Cali is more relevant than governorship, then you have Bernie that at least won a primary.

At the end of the day the primaries are of a tool of "shut the fuck up" ore than they are a smart means to pick a candidate. The winer tells the loser that he does not have the votes. And the loser side shuts the fuck up.

What we would get is a backroom deal that fraction of the voter base will reject.

In short I hope biden survives until it is too late to pretend there is an option to change, and if he dies in Oct we ride Harris cause that is what the convention said.

Nightmare fuel is the democratic civil war.

But you have the Democratic Civil War you fear right now. 

Most of the party is in an uproar that this guy can't be our nominee.  He's only our nominee because nobody runs against a sitting president.  

But he's the sitting president because he was elected in 2020 as a guy who is vastly different from the guy that exists today.  And frankly, we weren't aware of the guy who exists today until last night.  But now that we see the switch now that we've swallowed the bait, quite a lot of the party isn't fucking happy.  So sitting here and saying "we can't ditch Biden because we'll have a civil war" strikes me as akin to if Lincoln had said after Fort Sumter "we can't send federal troops into Virginia because we'll have a Civil War."  Sorry, Abe--Civil War already dun got declared.  The only question is whether we're going to resolve it before November.

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Posted

If Biden is alive on Election Day he gets my vote. He has quietly been exceptionally effective as president for all the reasons already noted. 
 

If he stands down and is replaced by anyone, literally anyone, that has a D next to their name I will vote for them. Anyone that ensures TFG is not back in the Oval Office is okay by me.

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Posted
Just now, Ghost of LL said:

But you have the Democratic Civil War you fear right now. 

Most of the party is in an uproar that this guy can't be our nominee.  He's only our nominee because nobody runs against a sitting president.  

But he's the sitting president because he was elected in 2020 as a guy who is vastly different from the guy that exists today.  And frankly, we weren't aware of the guy who exists today until last night.  But now that we see the switch now that we've swallowed the bait, quite a lot of the party isn't fucking happy.  So sitting here and saying "we can't ditch Biden because we'll have a civil war" strikes me as akin to if Lincoln had said after Fort Sumter "we can't send federal troops into Virginia because we'll have a Civil War."  Sorry, Abe--Civil War already dun got declared.  The only question is whether we're going to resolve it before November.

There is an uproar but Biden won the primaries and 2020, Harris does not have that, Newsom does not have that, Bernie does not have that. Only Biden does and it is not even close.

At the end of the day there is no option, build a time machine if you want options, go back in time and show the nation this debate (to tell you the truth they would probably scoff and say yeah that is Biden.) At least the panic would have been more subdued last night.

Posted
1 minute ago, linux said:

There is an uproar but Biden won the primaries and 2020, Harris does not have that, Newsom does not have that, Bernie does not have that. Only Biden does and it is not even close.

At the end of the day there is no option, build a time machine if you want options, go back in time and show the nation this debate (to tell you the truth they would probably scoff and say yeah that is Biden.) At least the panic would have been more subdued last night.

There is an option.  There are always options.  The question is whether the Democratic Party wants to explore an option that would enable it to win in November.  Or whether it would prefer the option of least resistance, which will result in MAGA winning the White House, the House, and the Senate, which will confine women to second-class citizenry (if they're lucky), which will destroy our economy and standing in the world, and which will doom the Republic.

Posted
Just now, Ghost of LL said:

There is an option.  There are always options.  The question is whether the Democratic Party wants to explore an option that would enable it to win in November.  Or whether it would prefer the option of least resistance, which will result in MAGA winning the White House, the House, and the Senate, which will confine women to second-class citizenry (if they're lucky), which will destroy our economy and standing in the world, and which will doom the Republic.

It has been universally accepted in this country, at least since the Perot candidacy that a divided house is a house that is routed you don't even need a REAL third candidate see Hillary and how she lost. If you think there is division over Biden or even Hillary, imagine with candidates that have never beaten Trump or at the very least won multiple primaries (Bernie only really won a few and he would never be taken seriously due to age and politics).

You referenced the real Civil War, you ride with the army you have not the one you want. Its too late to procure it is too late for primaries.

 

 

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Posted

That said I do pray secularly that there is a secret informal primary plan tucked away as an emergency meassure inside the DNC. It is not binding and all on the same day, but it would give the winner legitimacy if the worst really happened.

Posted
16 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

There is an option.  There are always options.  The question is whether the Democratic Party wants to explore an option that would enable it to win in November.  Or whether it would prefer the option of least resistance, which will result in MAGA winning the White House, the House, and the Senate, which will confine women to second-class citizenry (if they're lucky), which will destroy our economy and standing in the world, and which will doom the Republic.

The only remotely realistic option is Harris. Do you seriously think that five days from now you’ll want Harris to be the nominee over Biden?

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Posted
3 hours ago, Ghost of LL said:

And now it's time for him to do one more thing for his country--stand down.  Give a gracious speech from the Oval about how it's time to pass the torch to a new generation.  Channel JFK's First Inaugural, except instead of being the torch-recipient, speak as the torch-passer.  It would breathe new life into the campaign.  It would give the Democratic candidate an unbelievable advantage of not just being not old, but also of being the basis for excitement for the future.  It would defeat Trump.

It would save the Republic.

Purely from a strategic point of view, I feel this is accurate.  It would be like a shot of adrenaline for not only Dems, but a fuck ton of independents and non-voters.

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Pancho said:

It was a decent dap for uncle Joe 

 

More of this please uncle Joe!!

 

16 minutes ago, Pancho said:

 

I think there is a lot more of this out there this time, Trump has never won other than the year he was sort of a blank slate.

the debate was bad, real bad, this is going to blow over though.  
 

when was the last time Biden LOST an election, I’m serious? He’s probably 42-2 all time election record.

Edited by troph
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Posted
1 hour ago, UpperWestside said:

If Biden is alive on Election Day he gets my vote. He has quietly been exceptionally effective as president for all the reasons already noted. 
 

If he stands down and is replaced by anyone, literally anyone, that has a D next to their name I will vote for them. Anyone that ensures TFG is not back in the Oval Office is okay by me.

i mean...yeah. that's basically it. all of it.

Posted

i honestly do not understand why he can't be like that 24/7 inject him with whatever if you have to and fire the policy wonks, rallies like that work. It gets people excited, it eliminates the negative nancies and it drives out the vote.

Instead they wanted him to memorize stupid shit.

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Posted
1 hour ago, elfenix said:

 

"and i know my bed time is at 8 pm after the wheel comes on"

Humility is a good look. It draws a stark contrast to the other guy who is…

sucks the worst GIF

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Posted

Biden has done a really good job and mostly restored America’s place in the world. But he simply can’t run this time. If he wins, he would be 86 years old at the end of the term. There is no possible way an 86 year old can do the duties he is required. This is just the nature of the human condition.

Not one of here would want an 80+ year old boss. And Harris isn’t the answer. 99% of America (and the world) couldn’t pick her out of a lineup.

The fate of democracy is at stake. I hope Joe will do the right thing…

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