Русский корабль - иди нахуй

[atomheartbevo 88750]

So from this tweet posted earlier

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1641786451665747969

Vladimir Putin said at a meeting with members of the Russian Security Council that he approved a new version of the Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation.

The new version of Russia's Foreign Policy Concept:

• The logic of the updated Russian Foreign Policy Concept reflects changes in the foreign policy contour after the start of the Special Military Operation;
• The updated Concept explicitly names the United States as the main conductor of the anti-Russian policy;
• The thesis on the use of the Armed Forces to repel or prevent an attack on Russia or its allies is introduced;
• Strategic partnership with China and India is declared.

Russia will also oppose the deployment or strengthening of military infrastructure of unfriendly countries in the near abroad, Lavrov added.

----

Wonder if that is talking directly about Georgia and some of the 'stans that are distancing themselves from Russia.

[Gatorubet 29391]

7 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Russia will also oppose the deployment or strengthening of military infrastructure of unfriendly countries in the near abroad, Lavrov added.

----

Wonder if that is talking directly about Georgia and some of the 'stans that are distancing themselves from Russia.

Finland and friends. And by oppose, he means sit there with his nose pressed against the dacha window and whine. 

[dimyh 1862]

5 hours ago, locodos said:

So is using clip instead of magazine...  

The Russians want the black sea, fertile land, nuclear infrastructure, mining resources, pipeline routes to their markets and that's why they are attacking.  This is a Russian war.

I'm not going to argue with you further if you feel the Russians are fighting American hegemony via a proxy war so be it.

Enjoy comrade talking points:

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-putin-united-states-moscow-5cc322a7ef3b0407c529ebf8bb1fbfd2

 

I am 100% in support of Ukraine and I have no qualms in describing this as a proxy war. Whether it is described as a war or proxy war is immaterial. Russian propaganda is going to spout out whatever bullshit it can but that does not change the fact they are the aggressors in this matter. Morally, politically, economically...whichever way you look at they are in the wrong for invading an independent nation. Kremlin has even come out stating that they are at war with the west, that we are gay satanic witches which are corrupting their pure and innocent Russian values. Putin is the one trying to reconstitute Tsarist/Soviet glory by directly annexing neighbors. So the sooner people realize that we are in fact in a proxy war then that might help us realize how serious this entire conflict is. Because some people are still behaving that all we have to do is agree to a peace/cease fire and everything will return back to normal. No more sanctions. No more animosity. Bullshit. Win, lose or draw the Russian leadership is going to continue to spew anti-West propaganda to deflect blame. It is going to be a new Cold War 2.0. What matters is how serious of a threat Russia will be going forward. Supporting Ukraine now puts us in a better position once this chapter of the "war" ends.

 

[atomheartbevo 88750]

6 hours ago, locodos said:

using clip instead of magazine...  

Is one of the greatest ways of trolling ever.

[686 3371]

And the rocket’s red glare…

[KYHorn 16691]

 

[troph 23963]

8 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I don’t like the term proxy war but I’ll concede that the edges get fuzzy and it can be described as one in good faith.  
 

I think that given the stakes on both sides and war aims of Russia, this is just best described as an interstate war of conquest. Russia’s actions in Donbas between 2014 and 2022 could be described as a proxy war against Ukraine, and perhaps we can put NATO there too although our involvement was disproportionately small compared to the examples below.  Afghanistan was a proxy war by the USSR and U.S., as was Vietnam- neither the U.S. or USSR sought to invade, occupy, and take either of those nations’ territories for their own, it was a test of will and support for ostensible Allies/puppets competing to be the sole legitimate government. The Spanish Civil War was both a real civil war and a proxy war between the USSR and Nazi Germany. 
 

I think we can agree that Germany against the UK was very different than those conflicts, even as Lend-Lease started to flow.  By describing Ukraine as a proxy war, we lose sight of the more important characteristic— this is a predatory war of conquest launched by one sovereign state against another. 

proxy war: a war instigated by a major power which does not itself become involved.

it's very much a proxy war on the western side. we aren't fighting, we are telling the Ukrainians to fight, we are arming them and telling them how to do it (including restraint that is detrimental to their own self interests) to further our goals. You could argue it's not a proxy war by definition because the US didn't instigate per the definition above, but I think that's inconsequential to the meaning, I think direct involvement is the key.  The lack of direct involvement but the impact of supply, strategy, training and restrictions on what can and can't be done with weaponry makes it squarely a proxy war.  If Ukrainian security was truly our goal we would allow them to strike Russia as they need to, instead what we want is to bleed Russia dry so that they are a non factor globally for the next 20 years (at a minimum). That's by definition a proxy war. Russia is not fighting a proxy war, they are waging a war of conquest.  That is probably the worst position for both countries fighting. Ukraine can't truly expel without inflicting major damage to the Russian mainland, which is off limits with western weapons, and Russia wants land that is already hard to conquer and they can't attack their real enemy those feeding weapons and training to Ukraine. 

I actually think Vietnam was the opposite. We were not engaged in a proxy war, we were engaged in war and we were on the wrong side. The USSR may have been engaged in a proxy war.  The Korean War, again not a proxy war, we were there.  If you want to talk about proxy wars in terms of the fight for forms of government, maybe but that changes the definition of what a proxy war really is.  The Honduras conflict, that was a US proxy war.  Afghanistan 1.0 was a proxy war for the US, not for the USSR.  Afghanistan 2.0 was not a proxy war, we were there. 

Edited April 1, 2023 by troph

[InkaUtexas 24820]

Um, what Honduras conflict? Agree with most of your post but that one got me. 

And who the fuck cares. Russia invaded Ukraine. A coalition got together to support Ukraine. And I study wars. Semantics don't mean shit. War is war. Everyone has allies. 

 

@troph

Edited April 1, 2023 by InkaUtexas

[cactusflinthead 26791]

 

[cactusflinthead 26791]

8 hours ago, MillerEP said:

^We noticed that they were suppressing Ukraine news, this confirms it

Is your feed changed? I don't get the news the way I used to on For You. The subscribed side gets most of them if I keep scrolling.

[BamaATL 15728]

1 hour ago, InkaUtexas said:

Um, what Honduras conflict? Agree with most of your post but that one got me. 

And who the fuck cares. Russia invaded Ukraine. A coalition got together to support Ukraine. And I study wars. Semantics don't mean shit. War is war. Everyone has allies. 

 

@troph

Just because it might be to our long term benefit that Russia has decided, and continues to decide to do this, doesn't make it a proxy conflict for us.  Their disasters of decisions are entirely self inflicted, and our goal is and should be to make every decision they make quicksand, short of leaving Ukraine.  This is the correct way to apply international pressure, make every decision they make be a worse choice than leaving Ukraine.  The object of building military might isn't to use it unless absolutely necessary, it's to convince the other party that there are far better options.  Russia doesn't see this in Ukraine, so it gets worse, and it will continue to do so until they do.  

[Trey3216 15298]

7 hours ago, ABSR said:

Fixed it.

Where did I ever say the US/NATO started the war bro?  I’ve never said that. 

[cactusflinthead 26791]

 

[Schulz2.0 28616]

 

[Parliament 13979]

Woah really?

[Sawbonz 26735]

1 hour ago, Schulz2.0 said:

 

Seems like clickbait. There are more than 2 major parties 

[KYHorn 16691]

 

[locodos 5147]

13 hours ago, Walser said:

WUT.

Point me in the general direction and we will have some words. And by words I mean I will bar egress before I torch it.

In all seriousness I cannot imagine the backlash those Orcs would receive here in Austin.

More Ruskies in S. Florida than in any other country...  Sunny Isles Beach has a "Little Moscow" and there are a shitload more of them that have come to other areas of S Florida to buy property.  In part to have safe storage of their wealth and also to serve as a Summer home.  I hear Russian or some other slavic language that sounds like Russian may 2-3 times a week and I don't live anywhere near Sunny Isles

Quote

Sunny Isles Beach is located in northeastern Miami-Dade county. As of 2020, it's home to 22,342 people. The most recent data from the Census' American Community Survey that tracked population from 2015 to 2019 shows that there are 1,079 Russian-born residents living there — more than any country in Europe or Asia

 

[KYHorn 16691]

 

 

[troph 23963]

8 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

Um, what Honduras conflict? Agree with most of your post but that one got me. 

And who the fuck cares. Russia invaded Ukraine. A coalition got together to support Ukraine. And I study wars. Semantics don't mean shit. War is war. Everyone has allies. 

 

@troph

Who cares is largely correct except to the extent  motives of the west/proxies lead to less than ideal strategies for Ukraine which I think is a major factor in prolonging the war - both types of weaponry and limits on how it can be used have turned this into a quagmire. 
 

apologies re my Honduras comment, I was being sloppy. I’m referring to the Sandinistas/contra war in Nicaragua, and the money swap with Honduras to support it and allow US involvement more easily from across the border.  

[locodos 5147]

Spoiler

 

Damned...  almost feel bad for them..  around 8:00 ish   Spoilered for the hot tank on trench action

Edited April 1, 2023 by locodos

[KYHorn 16691]

Another thread on the military history of Crimea. He will provide some implications for the current situation after the next one

 

 

[BehoId, The Underminer! 11486]

6 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

 

 

Ignoring the stupidity of claiming you know what you control down to the whatever decimal place, as though this is an exercise in geometry — that’s some wwi shit.  How many people died last month so they could claim they’ve now got another 5 mile square.  A quick search of real estate listings shows that in Sutton County there is currently a ranch for sale that is about 2/3rds that size.  Russia could have gotten that same amount of land in freedomworld for about the cost of one of the tanks it expended there.  

[ABSR 5266]

13 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

So from this tweet posted earlier

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1641786451665747969

Vladimir Putin said at a meeting with members of the Russian Security Council that he approved a new version of the Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation.

The new version of Russia's Foreign Policy Concept:

• The logic of the updated Russian Foreign Policy Concept reflects changes in the foreign policy contour after the start of the Special Military Operation;
• The updated Concept explicitly names the United States as the main conductor of the anti-Russian policy;
• The thesis on the use of the Armed Forces to repel or prevent an attack on Russia or its allies is introduced;
• Strategic partnership with China and India is declared.

Russia will also oppose the deployment or strengthening of military infrastructure of unfriendly countries in the near abroad, Lavrov added.

----

Wonder if that is talking directly about Georgia and some of the 'stans that are distancing themselves from Russia.

I think this is a scare tactic at Moldova in the short term, and a warning to Georgia and ‘Stan’s etc.   Not Finland as we all know a bully only threatens those they think can’t adequately defend themselves.

[Parliament 13979]

44 minutes ago, locodos said:

More Ruskies in S. Florida than in any other country...  Sunny Isles Beach has a "Little Moscow" and there are a shitload more of them that have come to other areas of S Florida to buy property.  In part to have safe storage of their wealth and also to serve as a Summer home.  I hear Russian or some other slavic language that sounds like Russian may 2-3 times a week and I don't live anywhere near Sunny Isles

 

[Storm the Field 5239]

SIAP, but Russia is coming up on an impressive milestone.

Within a day or two, they'll have lost their 10,000th piece of equipment. Currently sitting at 9,942 destroyed/abandoned/captured as of the latest update from the Dutch OSINT group Oryx.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

[KYHorn 16691]

 

 

[Gatorubet 29391]

7 minutes ago, Storm the Field said:

SIAP, but Russia is coming up on an impressive milestone.

Within a day or two, they'll have lost their 10,000th piece of equipment. Currently sitting at 9,942 destroyed/abandoned/captured as of the latest update from the Dutch OSINT group Oryx.

https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html

Quote

Tanks (1908, of which destroyed: 1155, damaged: 100, abandoned: 100, captured: 553)

Well, 653 tanks is not a bad captured and abandoned haul.   Does anyone have any idea how many tanks Ukraine has lost in battle? Maybe more accurately, how many tanks did Ukraine have before February 2022 as well?

That number (tanks when the war started) +653 is a baseline. Then we need to know how many Ukrainian tanks in that number have been lost already. Finally, we need to add the number of tanks donated by other countries.     That seems like a sufficient number to put on a pretty kick ass spring offensive.

[KYHorn 16691]

 

Edited April 1, 2023 by KYHorn

[MissingInAction 24262]

Maybe we should start a new thread titled: "Proxy war: WTF does it mean anyway?"

[BamaATL 15728]

37 minutes ago, KYHorn said:

 

That doesn't look like guys going on a camping trip, the amount of supplies looks right.  Here's to hoping for a massive barrage this evening.

[956 Worldwide 33957]

15 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

So from this tweet posted earlier

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1641786451665747969

Vladimir Putin said at a meeting with members of the Russian Security Council that he approved a new version of the Foreign Policy Concept of the Russian Federation.

The new version of Russia's Foreign Policy Concept:

• The logic of the updated Russian Foreign Policy Concept reflects changes in the foreign policy contour after the start of the Special Military Operation;
• The updated Concept explicitly names the United States as the main conductor of the anti-Russian policy;
• The thesis on the use of the Armed Forces to repel or prevent an attack on Russia or its allies is introduced;
• Strategic partnership with China and India is declared.

Russia will also oppose the deployment or strengthening of military infrastructure of unfriendly countries in the near abroad, Lavrov added.

----

Wonder if that is talking directly about Georgia and some of the 'stans that are distancing themselves from Russia.

The Russian term “near abroad” is a deliberately amorphous term but it’s usually used to refer to the fourteen nations that used to be constituent republics of the USSR. 
 

Russia has a long “unfriendly countries” list that’s mostly NATO and Europe.  This is Russia saying they don’t want any NATO infrastructure in what used to be the USSR, but they can also expand the near abroad as needed. 

[atomheartbevo 88750]

41 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

That doesn't look like guys going on a camping trip,

[locodos 5147]

43 minutes ago, MissingInAction said:

Maybe we should start a new thread titled: "Proxy war: WTF does it mean anyway?"

Yeah, but the trick is we need to get the nerds in the Football forum to start it and blame the Food & Travel Chads

[Gravy Train 969]

Harkening to the very title of this thread, we learn Russia's petty bitchassedness went so far as to torture Ukrainian PoWs captured from Snake Island, desperately searching for the warfighter who told the Moskva to go fuck themselves.

 

[Schulz2.0 28616]

 

[Parliament 13979]

Give them to protect Ukraine now, or use them to protect Poland later.

[Gatorubet 29391]

1 hour ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The Russian term “near abroad” is a deliberately amorphous term but it’s usually used to refer to the fourteen nations that used to be constituent republics of the USSR. 

Nothing says Independent Republic quite like Moscow dictating what military assets you can deploy to defend your own country. Quoting Kennan again

“The jealous and intolerant eye of the Kremlin can distinguish, in the end, only vassals and enemies, and the neighbors of Russian if they do not wish to be one, must reconcile themselves to be the other.“

Speaking of Kennan, this excerpt from The Long Telegram sounds spot on 70 years later.

“… Experience has shown that peaceful and mutually profitable coexistence of capitalist and socialist states is entirely possible. . . . At bottom of Kremlin’s neurotic view of world affairs is traditional and instinctive Russian sense of insecurity . . . they have always feared foreign penetration, feared direct contact between Western world and their own, feared what would happen if Russians learned truth about world without or if foreigners learned truth about world within. And they have learned to seek security only in patient but deadly struggle for total destruction of rival power, never in compacts and compromises with it.

It was no coincidence that Marxism [that is, communism], which had smoldered ineffectively for half a century in Western Europe, caught hold and blazed for first time in Russia [where] . . . in the name of Marxism they sacrificed every single ethical value in their methods and tactics. Today they cannot dispense with it. It is fig leaf of their moral and intellectual respectability. Without it they would stand before history, at best, as only the last of that long succession of cruel and wasteful Russian rulers who have relentlessly forced country on to ever new heights of military power in order to guarantee external security of their internally weak regimes . . .”

[MillerEP 30232]

 

[Brisketexan 103143]

12 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

they have always feared foreign penetration, feared direct contact between Western world and their own, feared what would happen if Russians learned truth about world without or if foreigners learned truth about world within.

TLDR.  Let's put that in more succinct terms: "From the outside, you can't understand it; from the inside, you can't explain it."

Ring a bell?

 

Fucking seriously.  The overlap between Russian worldview/perspective and aggy worldview/perspective is fucking horrifying.

 

[MillerEP 30232]

 

[MillerEP 30232]

Ukrainian soldiers find the remains of German Wehrmacht soldiers while digging trenches.

In total, the remains of 1,700 German soldiers were found last year.

^Neat if true

 

[MillerEP 30232]

 

[MillerEP 30232]

 

[Gatorubet 29391]

55 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

Those Polish APC’s use the 30mm Bushmaster chain cannon. several other APCs supplied Ukraine do as well. Since Ivan is all about the WWI trenches, I thought I’d show a video demonstrating that the canon can fire air burst ammunition to take out orcs in a trench (or behind some protection in defilade).

 

[BamaATL 15728]

 

[BamaATL 15728]

Hmm

 

[BamaATL 15728]

Rumors floating that this might be exploring the bottom of the Black Sea

 

[DaggerHorns 3028]

I know that we don’t want any escalation or any other increases in conflict but I want so badly to fly a dozen jets over the Black Sea eliminating every Russian ship in sight.

[The Dog 42744]

12 minutes ago, BamaATL said:

Rumors floating that this might be exploring the bottom of the Black Sea

 

Was an April Fools joke by the OSINT folks. And a bad one.

in other news: