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Parents of Successful Children do this...

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29 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Poor any color people.  Stupidity knows no color barriers.

So poor people are stupid?

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3 minutes ago, Xian said:

So poor people are stupid?

Oy vey, OK I'll play your word twisting game.

....... Hell yes,  they wouldn't be poor if they weren't stupid,  d'uuuuh.

Seriously is that what you really think I meant ?

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3 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

Speaking from my experience, small town Texas was absolutely perfect for my kid.

Wimberley is different than a typical small town. I would safely guess that % of college graduates and average household income are probably 2-3 times the typical Texas small town that is over outside of commuter distance from a major city.

 

 

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3 hours ago, alincoln said:

One problem is that most public schools teach to the average kid in the class which is useless to the more intelligent children.  This is particularly an issue in elementary school where the pool is small and the separation by ability is more limited.  One reason attending the best school you can afford is beneficial is that the average student's ability is usually significantly higher than in a weaker school and, as a result, the work is more challenging.  

I am on the board of my kids' private school.  It is one of the better one's in Houston with a lot of high achievers (average scores on standardized tests are in the 90th percentile for all students).  This topic is something we struggle with mightily, even in a "good" private school.  What do you do with the truly gifted students?  They aren't hard to identify.

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2 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Parents being active, engaged, and working with their children's teachers is a great thing.

When I read "advocating for", it comes off as defending your child in school situations, and angling for special treatment.  That's a recipe for disaster.

That's not how I perceived it at all.  Advocating for them is making sure they are in the appropriate level of class to challenge them.  Not to argue little junior did nothing wrong,

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3 hours ago, 52-80 said:

#11.  Red-shirt your kids a few years before elementary school

That harms them. Makes it too easy and they aren't challenged as young kids.  My son is the youngest in his grade.  When he was in kindergarten there were kids who fucking turned 7 in February whereas he did not turn 6 until months later.  That's bullshit.

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4 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

That's not how I perceived it at all.  Advocating for them is making sure they are in the appropriate level of class to challenge them.  Not to argue little junior did nothing wrong,

And I would agree that that is crucial.

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57 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Biggest thing:  DO NOT LET YOUR KIDS GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS (Hell yes I'm yelling).  The biggest cluster of self entitled assholes I've ever seen in my entire life have been private school fucks. We have 3 really strong private schools $20k a year I believe ( Russell Wilson attended one of them, he's one of those exceptions to the asshole rule however).  There are two publics our county feeds into that can kick their asses academically, and economically.

Get them in the best public school system you can that has specialty schools, and AP class availability, and track records of getting kids into the best state and nationally ranked schools.  We're extremely fortunate in our county to have great, great schools.

 

I don't agree at all.  My kids' public school sucks.   So they will stay in private until high school, and then go to a very good public high school.  It sucks dropping 50 large a year on school.  But you do what you have to do.

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2 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don't agree at all.  My kids' public school sucks.   So they will stay in private until high school, and then go to a very good public high school.  It sucks dropping 50 large a year on school.  But you do what you have to do.

As I said, IF you have access to good public schools........

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If your kids can get into an elite private like St. John's or St. Mark's and you have the means, do it.  The education they receive is incredible.  Go to one of their graduations and see where their kids are going to college.  Blows away any public school.

In Houston, I'd pay the money for St. John's and probably Strake or Kinkaid for high school.  But I would just as soon send my kids to Lamar and its IB program over Episcopal, Second Baptist or Houston Christian.  

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2 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

As I said, IF you have access to good public schools........

Misread that.  I do not.  Until high school.

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56 minutes ago, Xian said:

Number one sounds like they want you to move your kids away from poor brown people. 
 

Smh. Bunch of yuppie racist 

Yeah, I think there should be a little bit of nuance with that suggestion.  I could afford Highland Park in Dallas if I really wanted to but that doesn't seem to be a very good representation of anything remotely resembling the real world (and while some people that grew up there I've run into are great and down to earth, many are fucking douchebags/assholes I have zero desire to associate with).   Hoping to stick in Lake Highlands for decent schools with diversity but guess we'll just have to see the state of the schools post-elementary once we cross that bridge (which is a ways off).  I'm anti private schools as well but my wife grew up with that as the only realistic option where she was so is more open to it down the road if public schools just aren't cutting it.   

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Just now, Johnny Sack said:

If your kids can get into an elite private like St. John's or St. Mark's and you have the means, do it.  The education they receive is incredible.  Go to one of their graduations and see where their kids are going to college.  Blows away any public school.

In Houston, I'd pay the money for St. John's and probably Strake or Kinkaid for high school.  But I would just as soon send my kids to Lamar and its IB program over Episcopal, Second Baptist or Houston Christian.  

Both HS our kids attended ( a Math and science HS, and the governors school) sent kids to every Ivy, all the service academies, UVA, William & Mary, Va Tech architecture and engineering, Washington & Lee, UCLA, Stanford, UC Berkley, MIT, Cal Tech, etc etc.  Just saying, both schools put kids pretty much everywhere they wanted to go with pretty solid regularity.

I think the publics, that are top flight do the same thing at a fraction of the cost of a private school nationally.  Your results may vary of course.  

Of course privates offer things 99.999999% of publics can't offer in the way of facilities, and other select programs.  For me and the Mrs. it came down to the general type of kids we wanted our kids to be around.

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This list would get a good laugh in China or with Asian parents. Positive reinforcement and great relationships is certainly one model, as espoused by this list.  Works for Western cultures and most white people. 

Being tyrannical maniacs about grades and test scores and not settling for second is also another model, as espoused by most Asian parents across the globe. Most Asian parents do maybe 3 or 4 of that list and do the opposite on some others.

And the term "successful" can have tons of different meanings?  Successful in having moneny wealth but shitty human beings? Is that successful?

What about dirt poor but happy as can be? Is that successful?

Edited by crash_davis

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7 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

Misread that.  I do not.  Until high school.

I've got much less issue with privates before HS.   I think public HS puts you with a much broader spectrum of people from all socio economic backgrounds much better than a typical private HS.

I'm definitely jaundiced against the private HS as I've seen first hand the social, and socio economic issues they seem to have that are not present in typical public HS systems.

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2 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

 

And the term "successful" can have tons of different meanings?  Successful in having moneny wealth but shitty human beings? Is that successful?

What about dirt poor but happy as can be? Is that successful?

Yes it can be very successful.

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3 minutes ago, crash_davis said:

This list would get a good laugh in China or with Asian parents. Positive reinforcement and great relationships is certainly one model, as espoused by this list.  Works for Western cultures and most white people. 

Being tyrannical maniacs about schools and not settling for second is also another model, as espoused by most Asian parents across the globe. Most Asian parents do maybe 3 or 4 of that list and do the opposite on some others.

And the term "successful" can have tons of different meanings?  Successful in having moneny wealth but shitty human beings? Is that successful?

What about dirt poor but happy as can be? Is that successful?

I don't see why they have much to do with each other.  Both poor and rich people can be shitty people.  I'd choose being rich over poor.  And happy over miserable.  I don't think having wealth precludes being happy.

I had plenty of money as a single attorney.  Never thought about money at all.  Made way more than I spent.  Then got married and had kids with my wife staying home and thus foregoing her income as an attorney.  Then kids start private school.  And for a number of years we had a lot of financial stress.  Then I made a bunch of money on a few cases that pretty much ended any financial concerns.  I can tell you right now not having to worry about money is a big fucking deal and stress reliever.   Maybe money cannot make you happy.  But it sure can relieve a lot of stress.  And lack of money can cause unhappiness.

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1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Biggest thing:  DO NOT LET YOUR KIDS GO TO PRIVATE SCHOOLS (Hell yes I'm yelling).  The biggest cluster of self entitled assholes I've ever seen in my entire life have been private school fucks. We have 3 really strong private schools $20k a year I believe ( Russell Wilson attended one of them, he's one of those exceptions to the asshole rule however).  There are two publics our county feeds into that can kick their asses academically, and economically.

Get them in the best public school system you can that has specialty schools, and AP class availability, and track records of getting kids into the best state and nationally ranked schools.  We're extremely fortunate in our county to have great, great schools.

 

This may work where you are, but where I live, it isn't a practical option.  The public schools are a joke, and that can be blamed, in large part, to the pensions that have crippled the public education system.  But I digress.  Moving to areas where the public schools even reach an "acceptable" level means paying a premium of about 50% for the exact same house.  Average home prices in my neighborhood, with its shitty schools, is almost $1 mil.  Paying an additional $500K to live in an area (in my case that would be La Canada or San Marino) doesn't pencil.  And then factoring in that the public education they would get at LCHS or SMHS would be inferior to the education my kids are receiving at their respective private schools- if for no other reason than class size which at the public schools averages 40-45 and at the privates is 15-22.  But I do think a lot of this is systemic to Southern California.  The greater Pasadena area (of which Altadena, where I live, is a part) has something like 40-50% of students attending private schools, and they are shuttering public schools left and right.  And it's their own damned fault.

"The biggest cluster of self entitled assholes I've ever seen in my entire life have been private school fucks."  Generalize much?  I guess it's a matter of perspective.  But surrounding your kids with other high-achieving kids does create a greater sense of urgency to achieve.  Whether this is right or not is not the question.  Is it a fact is more relevant.  And it is.  And as a parent, my primary responsibility is to give my kids every advantage I can to help them succeed, and then leave it up to them to capitalize on those advantages.  I realize this probably comes off as pretentious, but if you knew me, you'd know I just call it like I see it. 

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11 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

This may work where you are, but where I live, it isn't a practical option.  The public schools are a joke, and that can be blamed, in large part, to the pensions that have crippled the public education system.  But I digress.  Moving to areas where the public schools even reach an "acceptable" level means paying a premium of about 50% for the exact same house.  Average home prices in my neighborhood, with its shitty schools, is almost $1 mil.  Paying an additional $500K to live in an area (in my case that would be La Canada or San Marino) doesn't pencil.  And then factoring in that the public education they would get at LCHS or SMHS would be inferior to the education my kids are receiving at their respective private schools- if for no other reason than class size which at the public schools averages 40-45 and at the privates is 15-22.  But I do think a lot of this is systemic to Southern California.  The greater Pasadena area (of which Altadena, where I live, is a part) has something like 40-50% of students attending private schools, and they are shuttering public schools left and right.  And it's their own damned fault.

"The biggest cluster of self entitled assholes I've ever seen in my entire life have been private school fucks."  Generalize much?  I guess it's a matter of perspective.  But surrounding your kids with other high-achieving kids does create a greater sense of urgency to achieve.  Whether this is right or not is not the question.  Is it a fact is more relevant.  And it is.  And as a parent, my primary responsibility is to give my kids every advantage I can to help them succeed, and then leave it up to them to capitalize on those advantages.  I realize this probably comes off as pretentious, but if you knew me, you'd know I just call it like I see it. 

Again access to good public schools. Yes, it's a generalization based on living among them, seeing them in their school settings, seeing them after school at social events, seeing them later in life.  Generally the biggest cluster of self entitled assholes I've ever been around.

 

EDIT:  Actually took the self entitled asshole comment from one of my good friends who spent some years in that system.  He tells some whoppers about the money these kids had access to, and how it made many of them total douche bags.

Edited by Onboard 2.0

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1 hour ago, Xian said:

Number one sounds like they want you to move your kids away from poor brown people. 
 

Smh. Bunch of yuppie racist 

I mean no one else seems to see that, maybe you're the racists.

 

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2 minutes ago, workswithseed said:

I mean no one else seems to see that, maybe you're the racists.

 

Ya think ?  

We wanted our kids to be in the most diverse environment they could be in during HS.

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5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Ya think ?  

We wanted our kids to be in the most diverse environment they could be in during HS.

I don’t give one shit about diversity of color.  I do want them to be exposed to different socioeconomic classes.  I like to be colorblind.  

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5 minutes ago, Johnny Sack said:

I don’t give one shit about diversity of color.  I do want them to be exposed to different socioeconomic classes.  I like to be colorblind.  

Well color goes hand in hand with socio economic reality often, so there's that.

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3 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Well color goes hand in hand with socio economic reality often, so there's that.

This is straight up false.

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1 hour ago, Skipper said:

Yeah, I think there should be a little bit of nuance with that suggestion.  I could afford Highland Park in Dallas if I really wanted to but that doesn't seem to be a very good representation of anything remotely resembling the real world (and while some people that grew up there I've run into are great and down to earth, many are fucking douchebags/assholes I have zero desire to associate with).   Hoping to stick in Lake Highlands for decent schools with diversity but guess we'll just have to see the state of the schools post-elementary once we cross that bridge (which is a ways off).  I'm anti private schools as well but my wife grew up with that as the only realistic option where she was so is more open to it down the road if public schools just aren't cutting it.   

Just for the record, most of the Park Cities asshole/douchebags you come across are that way because of their wealth and privilege (often their near-wealth and privilege), not because they attended HPHS.  There are plenty of the same type of asshole/douchebags whereever you find the wealthy and privileged, to include St. Marks, Jesuit, ESD and yes,  Woodrow Wilson and LHHS, Berkner or Pearce and even Hillcrest and White.

I'm sure you can find some schools whose attendance zones exclude the wealthy and privileged, but there will be some other kind of asshole/douchebag and possibly even more toxic asshole/douchebags.

That said, the cost of housing in the Park Cities has risen to such a level as to mostly exclude "striver" families that have always been present in HPISD schools, so the wealthy and privileged is more highly represented, possibly, than elsewhere.  But the same is also true in Preston Hollow, and the generally good hood all the way up to LBJ, which pour thousands of students into DISD and the aforementioned private schools.  And you have large swaths of Richardson and Lake Highlands that are pretty similar.

tl;dr UP and HP have no monopoly on douchebags.  People are predisposed to note that an HP grad may be a douchebag/asshole and to remember it.

 

Edited by TwiceHorn

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Good list aside from #7. (Although I read that differently then some on here) I am not sure it is saying be a helicopter parent more if your kid isn't being challenged or during communication with teachers you pick up on that say something. It doesn't have to be over bearing or "my child is special" BS. 

#3 is Perfect. We do it some but not enough. It's not the result they need to learn but how they got to the desired result, and learning if they don't like the result/outcome there are ways to get there. 

Quote

Don't praise a child for getting a high grade on a test; praise her for the studying she did, which led to the result.
Don't praise for winning a race or a game; instead, offer praise for all the sweat he put in during practice—again, which led to the result.
Don't say, "You're so smart!" or "You're such a talented singer!" Instead, you want to find a way to say things like, "You did a great job figuring out that problem," or, "You sound so great—all those hours of practice paid off!"

 

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4 hours ago, Iceman said:

ARD meetings are a different realm.  It's absolutely amazing what the range of responses is that one receives from different school districts.  Goes back to Point #1, but that does not always mean the most affluent is the best.

 

Could not agree with this more.  My oldest is incredibly bright.  Consummate over-achiever and off the charts from a GT perspective.  My middle son is severely developmentally and physically delayed.  He'll always been in our care, and can't assimilate much in mainstream classrooms.  My youngest (daughter) is sharp but not "gifted and talented" and will probably be the most successful one in the family, but that's a different topic.

We moved a few years ago for a number of reasons, but finding a school district that could meet the needs of all three kids, despite their completely different trajectories, was the biggest driver.  As a parent, I think you have to know when to push the schools and when to back off.  For my oldest son, we've told him to fend for himself (see post above).  For my middle son, we've had to claw and fight to get him the resources he needs, and although our current school district is light years ahead of our previous school district, we've still had to fight to communicate his specific needs, battling typical barriers, and coordinating with doctors and therapists to ensure he has a consistent approach that gives him the best opportunity to succeed however that is eventually defined.  

Our previous school district kind of scratched their head and said, "we're just not sure what to do with him".  The current school district sets goals (however seemingly minor they may be) and ensures a consistent approach towards his care and education.  But, even with a defined strategy, you encounter individuals who aren't on the same page, and when you're dealing with a special needs kiddo, you've got to fight for them every step along the way. 

I think that advocating for your children is the right one in this instance.  We advocate for our two "typical" kids by giving them the resources they need to fight their own battles.  We advocate for our special needs son by strapping on armor and going to the front lines to fight for him.  

 

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My rules:

 

1) Have dinner every night together.  If sports get in the way, have a weekend activity/meal that is sacrosanct.

2) Subscribe to a sunday newspaper.  Read it together as a family, over coffee and whatever the fuck there is for breakfast.

3) Dad, treat mom with utmost respect around kids.  No wiggle room on this one.

4) Kids through high school in bed by 10 on school nights  whether or not homework is done or not.

The rest will take care of itself. 

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I think missing from the list is having blackmail material on your kids so that they won't get too full of themselves when they are older and put you in a cheap assisted living facility.

Ihave good dirt on my oldest two but the best goods I have  on my 11 year old are a little weak:

I have a picture of him shooting the double bird when he was about six  and

another picture of him waiting in line for free beer samples at Central Market...

...love that little guy.

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2 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Again access to good public schools. Yes, it's a generalization based on living among them, seeing them in their school settings, seeing them after school at social events, seeing them later in life.  Generally the biggest cluster of self entitled assholes I've ever been around.

 

EDIT:  Actually took the self entitled asshole comment from one of my good friends who spent some years in that system.  He tells some whoppers about the money these kids had access to, and how it made many of them total douche bags.

 

There are entitled assholes everywhere. It's easy to generalize ALL anything but that really never works out very well for most groups. When talking specifically about private vs. public schools you are literally comparing apples vs. trains. It just isn't possible, a private school in one area is nowhere near a private school in another state/area. Same for the public schools. 

Bottom line don't pay for private if there are good public schools in your area and pay for private school if there isn't a good public option. Granted even that isn't a one size fits all deal but it is what it is. 

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4 hours ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Show your work please.

you can just tell by race who is poor, right? 41.8% of all people living in poverty are white.

in 2017 in the US, folks who lived below the poverty level:

white- 14465700

black- 7823400

Hispanic- 9087300

Asian- 1670900

Native American- 445700

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/?dataView=1&currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

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4 hours ago, Jiggy-Z said:

I think missing from the list is having blackmail material on your kids so that they won't get too full of themselves when they are older and put you in a cheap assisted living facility.

 

That happens in their early 20's...in spades.

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#1 is really important. It’s not because it means you will go to a better school. who gives a shit. Being around more privileged peers has negatives, yes, but the main benefit is the raised expectations of the group. For example, is the peer group is all going to college, your kid will expect they are going to college too. If kids in the peer group aspire to be doctors, lawyers, accountants, there’s a greater chance of your kid following that same path, having that same baseline expectation. The same applies to a peer group where 1/3 of the kids join the marines, become teachers, sell insurance. [there is nothing wrong with any of these things]. But if you want your kid to become the next Senator, it is easier if they surround themselves with other kids that have those expectations. 

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3 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

#1 is really important. It’s not because it means you will go to a better school. who gives a shit. Being around more privileged peers has negatives, yes, but the main benefit is the raised expectations of the group. For example, is the peer group is all going to college, your kid will expect they are going to college too. If kids in the peer group aspire to be doctors, lawyers, accountants, there’s a greater chance of your kid following that same path, having that same baseline expectation. The same applies to a peer group where 1/3 of the kids join the marines, become teachers, sell insurance. [there is nothing wrong with any of these things]. But if you want your kid to become the next Senator, it is easier if they surround themselves with other kids that have those expectations. 

That's what happens in advanced pace classes/ advanced schools. The kids that are academically inclined typically push each other in competition to get a better grades than the kid next to them.

It seemed to be more acute with the girls for some reason. We had that discussion watching a son and daughter go thru school relatively close to each other in age, but at different schools.

 It wasn't petty (usually), but they pushed each other to do better, because all their friends were doing well. Your college choices/ expectations all step up when you hear where your friends expect to go. Same concept as what you posted.

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15 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

#1 is really important. It’s not because it means you will go to a better school. who gives a shit. Being around more privileged peers has negatives, yes, but the main benefit is the raised expectations of the group. For example, is the peer group is all going to college, your kid will expect they are going to college too. If kids in the peer group aspire to be doctors, lawyers, accountants, there’s a greater chance of your kid following that same path, having that same baseline expectation. The same applies to a peer group where 1/3 of the kids join the marines, become teachers, sell insurance. [there is nothing wrong with any of these things]. But if you want your kid to become the next Senator, it is easier if they surround themselves with other kids that have those expectations. 

I'm hoping that my kids can find their way on a good track that leads to Ann Richards/LASA if they are so inclined. I have no intention of moving out to Westlake or Lake Travis to get them into a solid track of schools. I'd rather see them exposed to a much more diverse student body however there are concerns that could mean teaching at an average that would be below some other programs.

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1 minute ago, ZB'Tejas said:

I'm hoping that my kids can find their way on a good track that leads to Ann Richards/LASA if they are so inclined. I have no intention of moving out to Westlake or Lake Travis to get them into a solid track of schools. I'd rather see them exposed to a much more diverse student body however there are concerns that could mean teaching at an average that would be below some other programs.

Quite frankly if you don't do all you can to get your kids into the absolute best learning environment you can, you're doing it wrong IMO.  

If you're not going to put them into the best possible school system then you better get them on track for a really good trade program (which is not a bad way to go either IMO).  The competition for jobs is going to be steeper going forward, and the trades are looking for lots of positions to fill now, and in the future.

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4 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Quite frankly if you don't do all you can to get your kids into the absolute best learning environment you can, you're doing it wrong IMO.  

If you're not going to put them into the best possible school system then you better get them on track for a really good trade program (which is not a bad way to go either IMO).  The competition for jobs is going to be steeper going forward, and the trades are looking for lots of positions to fill now, and in the future.

The "absolute best learning environment" is likely pretty subjective. There is a wide range between the poorest performing schools and the top rated ones (both private and public) Stretching financially to get into some private school is probably not the best thing you can do for your kids. Being financially smart and stable so that your kids have the ability to take a risk might be.

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2 minutes ago, ZB'Tejas said:

The "absolute best learning environment" is likely pretty subjective. There is a wide range between the poorest performing schools and the top rated ones (both private and public) Stretching financially to get into some private school is probably not the best thing you can do for your kids. Being financially smart and stable so that your kids have the ability to take a risk might be.

 I hear you, and agree.  I'm not a private school advocate unless you just don't have any other options.  We have a home school family in our neighborhood, and their kids are off the charts capable, wicked smart as shit kids (8 of them), and we have some of the best schools in the state and nationally ranked publics.  

In the end its what you think best for your kids.  I think having them in the best learning environment gives them the most options for success down the road.

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18 hours ago, Iceman said:

you can just tell by race who is poor, right? 41.8% of all people living in poverty are white.

in 2017 in the US, folks who lived below the poverty level:

white- 14465700

black- 7823400

Hispanic- 9087300

Asian- 1670900

Native American- 445700

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/?dataView=1&currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

do you even data normalization bro

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On 11/21/2019 at 7:57 PM, Iceman said:

you can just tell by race who is poor, right? 41.8% of all people living in poverty are white.

in 2017 in the US, folks who lived below the poverty level:

white- 14465700

black- 7823400

Hispanic- 9087300

Asian- 1670900

Native American- 445700

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indicator/poverty-rate-by-raceethnicity/?dataView=1&currentTimeframe=0&sortModel={"colId":"Location","sort":"asc"}

You do realize the % of black folks at or below the poverty level is higher than that of white folks.  So while there are most definitely more white people at or below the poverty level, the % of black people at that disadvantaged place is higher based on their total population .  

So my comment that color often goes hand in hand with a lower socio economic position was accurate.

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