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purplepride95

Ex Cop and son kill unarmed black man jogging

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37 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

I wouldn't mind some pics too. Some of OP and the time and said ho and wife. You know, so we could compare for science. Maybe there substance to the confusion. Let's not judge that shooter until we have further evidence.

Pics of me y’all have seen. Not much to see. don’t think I know of any pictures of the ho but I am sure my cousin can give me pics of the ho-doer/shooter/Cheater. Basically just have pictures of my uncle’s brand new (at the time) silver dodge pickup truck with a bunch of bullet holes in the passenger side. 
I wasn’t jesting with the story. Mentioned it only because that cheater’s “mistaken belief/reasonable suspicion” that could have got me or my other cousins killed. 
 
My two cousins and I always hung out when I’d come to visit. We’d drink beer. Drive around country roads because it was in the country. That night we parked the truck in the middle of the county road about two football fields from my grand parents home (which was adjacent to the ho-biscuits property) and get out to get more beer out of the bed cooler. We grabbed more beer. Realize we are almost out and decide to go back to my uncle’s house for more. Get back into his truck. Then a bunch of pops over and over. We drive about a minute to my uncle’s house and get out of truck and see the whole side has bullet holes in it. Uncle comes storming outside and says we’d better our stories straight because council cheater guy had already called the sheriff. Sheriff called my uncle because as it was a small town most everyone knew my uncle who had lived there his whole life bought a new truck. Sheriff came over asked all three of us questions separately. We managed (all being underage of legal limit) to seem sober. Sheriff left. Said later to my uncle that the guy admitted shooting at us but thought I was his wife. (Attempted murder?) Sheriff said council guy was real sorry and all and would pay for the damage. Sheriff said couldn’t arrest him because anyone in cheater’s situation would think the same thing. Encouraged my uncle to “let it go.” Ho later moved away. Keep I mind my grandparents (lived there their whole lives same county until they died) and uncle still lives there.

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How much time must elapse before malice is provable?  At what point after strapping up is intent no longer an impossibility? 

These guys weren't unfortunate victims of circumstance.  They didn't accidentally shoot the mailman, two on one, three times in the torso.

I hate these threads.

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50 minutes ago, Huckleberry said:

That logic (that you must be doing something you know is likely to kill someone) appears nowhere in the statute. 

I'd have to have some case cites to know.  And I expect it's still a squishy jury question.

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9 minutes ago, purplepride95 said:

 

 

Well this is getting juicy.  Or just someone leaving some BS behind for the media.  I'm gonna laugh my ass off when they find a bunch of white supremacist crap & kiddie porn on the cleatii's computers.

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Posted (edited)

This can be confusing, I guess:

Express malice = actually meaning to kill ("deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life...")

Implied malice = doing something that you know is likely to kill ("where all circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart")

 

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

That logic (that you must be doing something you know is likely to kill someone) appears nowhere in the statute. 

Above.  I'm clarifying the language because you guys seem confused or at least presented it in a way I thought would confuse others.  The actual standard in Georgia for each will be a bullet point list of requirements, but above is the gist.

Edited by JBJ

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6 minutes ago, JBJ said:

This can be confusing, I guess:

Express malice = actually meaning to kill ("deliberate intention unlawfully to take the life...")

Implied malice = doing something that you know is likely to kill ("where all circumstances of the killing show an abandoned and malignant heart")

 

See above.  I was clarifying what "abandoned and malignant heart" meant because you guys were going on a wild goose chase.  It describes an action, not the person.  The actual standard in Georgia will be a bullet point list of requirements, but above is the gist.

1) So they didn’t mean to kill?

2) here we might call it reckless endangerment perhaps?

3) The defendants were not cognizant that their actions could result in the taking of a human life?

      a) if so did they feel justified?

4) are not most questions (1-3a) answered in the video and subsequent statements of the defendants after the incident?

 

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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, purplepride95 said:

 

Pretty damning for the defendants. And the story they concocted. And are still vomiting all over MSM. 
 

edit: I’d be curious to know what type of drug: alcohol history Travis has and if a gun was “stolen” whether it was reported and if so pawned out of state. 

Edited by Nicole44

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Posted (edited)

JBJ's endless quest to demonize the victim and exonerate the perpetrators is inspiring. Inspiring me to vomit, haaaaa....

Edit: just to be clear he is a fucking concern troll at best and you should stop engaging with him

Edited by Brian Fantana

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5 minutes ago, Brian Fantana said:

JBJ's endless quest to demonize the victim and exonerate the perpetrators is inspiring. Inspiring me to vomit, haaaaa....

I don’t know the poster. Or his/ her family’s history with LE or incarceration. 

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5 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

JBJ's endless quest to demonize the victim and exonerate the perpetrators is inspiring. Inspiring me to vomit, haaaaa....

Edit: just to be clear he is a fucking concern troll at best and you should stop engaging with him

Just asking questions...

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

I believe it's called "yogging."

With a "Soft 'J'"  

I'm Ron Burgundy, you go fuck yourself Georgia.  

Edited by Lobo

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11 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

 I'm not lawyer but I've quite possibly spent more time educating myself on the legal aspects of self defense than a large number of lawyers, and that's no small feat. 

 

Spent a lot of time in the prison library have ya ??

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1 minute ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Spent a lot of time in the prison library have ya ??

Maybe, maybe not, maybe go fuck yourself.

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17 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Maybe, maybe not, maybe go fuck yourself.

Please tell me your keyboard has a Bostonian accent.  

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

1) So they didn’t mean to kill?

2) here we might call it reckless endangerment perhaps?

3) The defendants were not cognizant that their actions could result in the taking of a human life?

      a) if so did they feel justified?

4) are not most questions (1-3a) answered in the video and subsequent statements of the defendants after the incident?

Shooting someone with a gun 90% of the time is going to be express malice.  The malice is in that specific action.  They can't use as a defense that they did not mean to kill when sitting in the truck. It's the action that kills that matters.  Make sense?

Therefore, implied malice doesn't matter. Therefore, a malignant heart doesn't matter. Malignant heart is likewise describing the action.  It's not a character trait.

There's a 1% chance something in GA case law changes the math on this particular topic.  The case law will have things that nuance the above (need to show defendant had knowledge of X, so-so action must be deliberate).   There's not going to be a loophole.

Hopefully, those questions are answered?

------

An example of implied malice would be doing Doc Holliday-style gun tricks with a revolver that you know is loaded.  Gun goes off and hits your buddy.  You may not have meant to kill someone, but you deliberately disregarded human life. 

The more trained you are with firearms the more is expected from you.  Joe Shmoe might be convicted if someone told him the gun was loaded.  A marine might be convicted if he didn't check the gun after being given it.

Edited by JBJ

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Posted (edited)

If we're attacking the history of the people involved, can we talk about how the shooter was stripped of his authority to make arrests due to skipping use of force training while he was an officer?

Quote

The former police detective whose actions in the fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery in Georgia were defended as a citizen's arrest was stripped of his law enforcement certification and power to arrest a year before the deadly encounter, according to personnel records acquired by The Washington Post.

Gregory McMichael's certification was suspended in February 2019 after repeated failures to complete required training, according to documents from the Brunswick Judicial Circuit District Attorney's Office, including a warning in 2014 that McMichael had neglected to finish mandatory firearms and use-of-force courses.

...

A February 2019 memo signed by McMichael and other officials in the district attorney's office stated he "will not engage in any activity that would be construed as being law enforcement in nature."

"To that end, Mr. McMichael will not carry a firearm or badge, nor will he operate any vehicle in the motor pool outfitted with lights, siren or police radio equipment," the memo stated.

But McMichael's law enforcement instincts appeared to kick in when he saw Arbery running down a residential street on Feb. 23. He told police he ran to his bedroom to get a handgun, got in a truck and drove after Arbery.

Gotta love the classic "there's a black guy! Better grab my gun" instincts. I wonder if there's a word for that... Racism or being a cop?

Edited by Captainant

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22 minutes ago, JBJ said:

Shooting someone with a gun 90% of the time is going to be express malice.  The malice is in that specific action.  They can't use as a defense that they did not mean to kill when sitting in the truck. It's the action that kills that matters.  Make sense?

Therefore, implied malice doesn't matter. Therefore, a malignant heart doesn't matter. Malignant heart is likewise describing the action.  It's not a character trait.

There's a 1% chance something in GA case law changes the math on this particular topic.  The case law will have things that nuance the above (need to show defendant had knowledge of X, so-so action must be deliberate).   There's not going to be a loophole.

Hopefully, those questions are answered?

------

An example of implied malice would be doing Doc Holliday-style gun tricks with a revolver that you know is loaded.  Gun goes off and hits your buddy.  You may not have meant to kill someone, but you deliberately disregarded human life. 

The more trained you are with firearms the more is expected from you.  Joe Shmoe might be convicted if someone told him the gun was loaded.  A marine might be convicted if he didn't check the gun after being given it.

 No!!!!!!

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Posted (edited)

"Depraved and abandoned heart" doesn't apply here. The fact pattern I recall from law school is joyriding at 100mph on a busy highway weaving through traffic, then you hit a car and kill the person inside. The driver didn't intend to kill that person (or anyone really) but their disregard of the very real possibility that the dangerous action could kill someone is implied malice through a depraved heart (essentially not giving a fuck about the danger to the lives of others). The term "abandoned and depraved heart" is from old common law which has made its way into statutes. It has been defined pretty clearly by case law. The trick is in the various fact patterns.

It doesn't apply here because when you point and shoot a gun at a particular person that satisfies express malice. You knew that by pulling the trigger you would kill the person in front of you. The available defense is whether the killing was "unlawful" which is what these guys will surely claim, that they were doing some form of citizens arrest and the person did not "comply," which doesn't work as a matter of law. But all you need is one "back the blue" or closet klansmen on the jury and nullification could come into effect. Throw in that the new prosecutor is a black woman and jury nullification is a real fear I have. I have no doubt it's a possibility in Georgia to get one or more racist asshole on the jury without it coming out in voir dire. They have become pretty adept at pretending not to be racist until it matters.

Edited by 'stache

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9 hours ago, Nicole44 said:

1) So they didn’t mean to kill?

2) here we might call it reckless endangerment perhaps?

3) The defendants were not cognizant that their actions could result in the taking of a human life?

      a) if so did they feel justified?

4) are not most questions (1-3a) answered in the video and subsequent statements of the defendants after the incident?

 

32 minutes ago, Nicole44 said:

 No!!!!!!

'Stache beat me to this but here anyway:

"Meaning to kill" would have happened in the split-second the trigger was pulled.  Aiming the gun and pulling the trigger is intent.  If the Son willfully shot at Arbery, he "meant to kill."  Period.  This part of the statute is satisfied. 

It's not that it doesnt meet the second half.  The second half is for a different type of murder.   It is irrelevant here.

Hopefully the rest of the questions are irrelevant as well.

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3 hours ago, 'stache said:

 I have no doubt it's a possibility in Georgia to get one or more racist asshole on the jury without it coming out in voir dire. They have become pretty adept at pretending not to be racist until it matters.

Man, why do I have to keep repeating the voir dire questions that solve for your concern. It's like everyone has me on ignore.

Do you own or have you ever owned any Affliction apparel? Do you own or have you owned a John Deere or Caterpillar hat? is your truck jacked up? Do you own a riding mower? Are you a member of the NRA?

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39 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

Man, why do I have to keep repeating the voir dire questions that solve for your concern. It's like everyone has me on ignore.

Do you own or have you ever owned any Affliction apparel? Do you own or have you owned a John Deere or Caterpillar hat? is your truck jacked up? Do you own a riding mower? Are you a member of the NRA?

Just need one question.

Why do you hate black people?

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7 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Man, why do I have to keep repeating the voir dire questions that solve for your concern. It's like everyone has me on ignore.

Do you own or have you ever owned any Affliction apparel? Do you own or have you owned a John Deere or Caterpillar hat? is your truck jacked up? Do you own a riding mower? Are you a member of the NRA?

Is this sarcasm? 

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18 hours ago, 'stache said:

Throw in that the new prosecutor is a black woman and jury nullification is a real fear I have.

If they can get through deliberation without a juror using the word "uppity", I'll consider that a monumental societal success.

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19 hours ago, BurntEyes said:

Man, why do I have to keep repeating the voir dire questions that solve for your concern. It's like everyone has me on ignore.

Do you own or have you ever owned any Affliction apparel? Do you own or have you owned a John Deere or Caterpillar hat? is your truck jacked up? Do you own a riding mower? Are you a member of the NRA?

Man, you and 'stache use your mouths prettier than a $2 whore, what with using all them fancy foreign words and such.

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Glad this situation didn't end up the same.

Black delivery driver blocked into Oklahoma neighborhood by HOA president

OKLAHOMA CITY (KFOR) — A viral video shows a delivery driver being held against his will in an Oklahoma City area neighborhood Monday, blocked in by a man who identified himself as the homeowners association president.

https://www.wjtv.com/news/i-literally-cried-for-hours-black-delivery-driver-speaks-after-being-blocked-in-oklahoma-neighborhood/

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1 hour ago, SHOOTER12 said:

Man, you and 'stache use your mouths prettier than a $2 whore, what with using all them fancy foreign words and such.

Imma put you in he Affliction apparel camp for sure.

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18 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Glad this situation didn't end up the same.

Black delivery driver blocked into Oklahoma neighborhood by HOA president

OKLAHOMA CITY (KFOR) — A viral video shows a delivery driver being held against his will in an Oklahoma City area neighborhood Monday, blocked in by a man who identified himself as the homeowners association president.

https://www.wjtv.com/news/i-literally-cried-for-hours-black-delivery-driver-speaks-after-being-blocked-in-oklahoma-neighborhood/

That is beyond disgusting.  You attorneys...what would the charge be here?  He was certainly being held against his will, what would that look like?  

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1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Glad this situation didn't end up the same.

Black delivery driver blocked into Oklahoma neighborhood by HOA president

OKLAHOMA CITY (KFOR) — A viral video shows a delivery driver being held against his will in an Oklahoma City area neighborhood Monday, blocked in by a man who identified himself as the homeowners association president.

https://www.wjtv.com/news/i-literally-cried-for-hours-black-delivery-driver-speaks-after-being-blocked-in-oklahoma-neighborhood/

That HOA president is the ugliest Karen I've ever seen.

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Posted (edited)

I would have called the cops myself and stated that I was being unlawfully detained and ask them for help. Let them know that I was making a lawful delivery and this racist is blocking me and I'm afraid he's trying to gather more of his kkk buddies to harm me.

Also, let the police know that I was videoing the whole encounter.

I would then hope the cops didn't show up and shoot me.

I'm brown, so it could go either way as far as getting shot by the cops.

Edited by Lone Star Horn

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2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

That HOA president is the ugliest Karen I've ever seen.

He was driving a Subaru

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On 5/14/2020 at 8:29 AM, Captainant said:

If we're attacking the history of the people involved, can we talk about how the shooter was stripped of his authority to make arrests due to skipping use of force training while he was an officer?

Gotta love the classic "there's a black guy! Better grab my gun" instincts. I wonder if there's a word for that... Racism or being a cop?

It's better/worse than that.  Apparently he neglected his continuing cop training from 2006 until 2014, not just at the end of his career.  And he didn't tell anyone and they didn't find out. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/14/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-gregory-mcmichael-records

It's a little bit unclear how much a DA investigator really needs a peace officer's license.  Some go do cop stuff, most find and interview witnesses and quietly gather evidence.  But without his certification, he was also not entitled to carry a badge.

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So he’s supposed to have called the cops? Yeah I dont think so. As soon as bubba tells the cops that the black guy it suspicious and won’t “comply” the cops would be even more dangerous to his safety. I just can’t even imagine what it must be like to face this shit as a black person these days.

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It's better/worse than that.  Apparently he neglected his continuing cop training from 2006 until 2014, not just at the end of his career.  And he didn't tell anyone and they didn't find out. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/may/14/ahmaud-arbery-shooting-gregory-mcmichael-records
It's a little bit unclear how much a DA investigator really needs a peace officer's license.  Some go do cop stuff, most find and interview witnesses and quietly gather evidence.  But without his certification, he was also not entitled to carry a badge.

A least here in Texas, lots of times they fill out and swear on affidavits as peace officers warranrs, PC affidavits, etc.
If he was not a peace officer and filed these he could have been falsifying govt docs, not that the da cared

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On 5/13/2020 at 10:22 PM, Huckleberry said:

Circumstances show an abandoned and malignant heart

Motto worthy.

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In Texas there is a state agency called TCOLE that tracks and provides training for officers.  Usually every LE department has someone who makes sure all of their officers are up to date.  No clue if Georgia has something similar.

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1 hour ago, kevwun said:

In Texas there is a state agency called TCOLE that tracks and provides training for officers.  Usually every LE department has someone who makes sure all of their officers are up to date.  No clue if Georgia has something similar.

I'm sure it does.  It's the system of "are you a white redneck asshole?  If so, you're good."  Seriously, this is a club of law enforcement officers in the south that culturally dates back to Jim Crow.  If you've ever been among these types where they "let loose" and say what's really on their mind (go hunting with some of them, or drinking beer around the bbq pit).....you'll hear n-bombs like they were going out of style, and just flat-out contempt for citizens in general and minorities in particular.  I'm old enough that I've heard it a bunch.  If the generation below me heard these things, their jaws would drop.  But it's there.  It permeates their thinking, their actions, and who they are.

Layer on the militarization of the last 20 years, the "warrior cop" fighting in the ever-present "war on cops" mentality.....body counts are inevitable.  Make no mistake -- to much of law enforcement (particularly in the old Jim Crow south, but plenty of other areas have this problem), we the people are the enemy.  Every one of us has the burden of proof at any given moment to convince them that we are NOT a threat that should be neutralized.  And as to those of us who are minorities, the presumption is that we are either currently criminals, or planning to go criming in the immediate future.

Frankly, we're lucky that such a culture doesn't kill MORE of us.

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17 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm sure it does.  It's the system of "are you a white redneck asshole?  If so, you're good."  Seriously, this is a club of law enforcement officers in the south that culturally dates back to Jim Crow.  If you've ever been among these types where they "let loose" and say what's really on their mind (go hunting with some of them, or drinking beer around the bbq pit).....you'll hear n-bombs like they were going out of style, and just flat-out contempt for citizens in general and minorities in particular.  I'm old enough that I've heard it a bunch.  If the generation below me heard these things, their jaws would drop.  But it's there.  It permeates their thinking, their actions, and who they are.

Layer on the militarization of the last 20 years, the "warrior cop" fighting in the ever-present "war on cops" mentality.....body counts are inevitable.  Make no mistake -- to much of law enforcement (particularly in the old Jim Crow south, but plenty of other areas have this problem), we the people are the enemy.  Every one of us has the burden of proof at any given moment to convince them that we are NOT a threat that should be neutralized.  And as to those of us who are minorities, the presumption is that we are either currently criminals, or planning to go criming in the immediate future.

Frankly, we're lucky that such a culture doesn't kill MORE of us.

I've read a lot of cop non-fiction, notably Cops by Mark Baker.  That attitude exists outside the deep south, as well.

A moment of empathy for cops.  They frequently experience the absolute worst of humanity.  It makes them cynical and jaded.  The criminal class becomes skels and mopes and animals, in other words, nonhumans.  They lose sympathy and empathy for the poverty and other conditions that drive the nonhumans to their depredations.  It fuels racism and other forms of sociopathy and the us v. them mentality.  The racism and Jim Crow of southern po-lice just adds a layer of nastiness to it but it is not an essential precursor to or ingredient of the attitude.

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5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

I've read a lot of cop non-fiction, notably Cops by Mark Baker.  That attitude exists outside the deep south, as well.

Definitely -- and I acknowledged as much (L.A. and Boston ain't a paradise for black people who don't wanna be hassled by the cops, for example).

5 minutes ago, TwiceHorn said:

A moment of empathy for cops.  They frequently experience the absolute worst of humanity.  It makes them cynical and jaded.  The criminal class becomes skels and mopes and animals, in other words, nonhumans.  They lose sympathy and empathy for the poverty and other conditions that drive the nonhumans to their depredations.  It fuels racism and other forms of sociopathy and the us v. them mentality.  The racism and Jim Crow of southern po-lice just adds a layer of nastiness to it but it is not an essential precursor to or ingredient of the attitude.

I agree....to some extent.  Nobody is saying that the job can't be tough, and that it doesn't wear on you.  But let's be clear, the racism and Jim Crow issue isn't just a layer of nastiness -- it's a dominant part of the very fabric of police culture.  And that is in large part due to the vicious circle created by that culture with respect to police recruiting.

What demographic has dominated police recruiting (and again, I acknowledge that it isn't ALL LEOs, it's just an outsized presence)?  It isn't guys who are critical thinkers with high IQs.  It's men of moderate intelligence (we've seen story after story about how PDs actually screen OUT guys who are "too smart").  It's heavily white.  It's a lot of guys who long for adrenaline, hoo-ah, git some.  That demographic is taken in....and then taught on repeat that it's a war on cops, they are warriors who shouldn't take shit from anyone, etc.  And THAT helps create a self-fulfilling prophecy: when a cop shows up to talk to someone in my neighborhood of white folks, they are usually relaxed and conversational.  When they show up to talk to black people across I83, they are on higher alert (the nonverbal body language cues are off-the-charts), even have their hand positioned to reach for their firearm quickly.  That creates a tense, non-cooperative situation....so the cops then perceive the black folks as being non-cooperative troublemakers.  It's the age-old self-fulfilling prophecy -- when you treat a demographic like threatening scum, they react like threatened, guilty people, thus meeting your expectation.  And THAT training is ingrained in those citizens -- come on, we all know that most black people are ingrained by a pretty early age with an inherent fear and distrust of law enforcement ("they may be here to protect, but they aren't here to protect ME").  

Hell, I work with some brilliant, accomplished professionals who happen to be black.  100%, they look at traffic stops differently than my family does.  They are much more fearful of every interaction with the police, and they even often make car purchasing decisions with that in mind -- don't buy anything too flashy that will draw the attention of a cop thinking "what's a thug like him doing driving a fancy car like THAT?  Probably drugs....[flips on the lights]."

Oh, and I bring my same Brisket optimism to this broken cultural issue as I do to the rest of them: we're fucked.  For every cop and police leadership realizing that we need to move to a community policing approach and have no tolerance for racism....they are vastly outnumbered by the warriors hoo-ah get some, back the blue against the thugs types.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Definitely -- and I acknowledged as much (L.A. and Boston ain't a paradise for black people who don't wanna be hassled by the cops, for example).

I agree....to some extent.  Nobody is saying that the job can't be tough, and that it doesn't wear on you.  But let's be clear, the racism and Jim Crow issue isn't just a layer of nastiness -- it's a dominant part of the very fabric of police culture.  And that is in large part due to the vicious circle created by that culture with respect to police recruiting.

What demographic has dominated police recruiting (and again, I acknowledge that it isn't ALL LEOs, it's just an outsized presence)?  It isn't guys who are critical thinkers with high IQs.  It's men of moderate intelligence (we've seen story after story about how PDs actually screen OUT guys who are "too smart").  It's heavily white.  It's a lot of guys who long for adrenaline, hoo-ah, git some.  That demographic is taken in....and then taught on repeat that it's a war on cops, they are warriors who shouldn't take shit from anyone, etc.  And THAT helps create a self-fulfilling prophecy: when a cop shows up to talk to someone in my neighborhood of white folks, they are usually relaxed and conversational.  When they show up to talk to black people across I83, they are on higher alert (the nonverbal body language cues are off-the-charts), even have their hand positioned to reach for their firearm quickly.  That creates a tense, non-cooperative situation....so the cops then perceive the black folks as being non-cooperative troublemakers.  It's the age-old self-fulfilling prophecy -- when you treat a demographic like threatening scum, they react like threatened, guilty people, thus meeting your expectation.  And THAT training is ingrained in those citizens -- come on, we all know that most black people are ingrained by a pretty early age with an inherent fear and distrust of law enforcement ("they may be here to protect, but they aren't here to protect ME").  

Hell, I work with some brilliant, accomplished professionals who happen to be black.  100%, they look at traffic stops differently than my family does.  They are much more fearful of every interaction with the police, and they even often make car purchasing decisions with that in mind -- don't buy anything too flashy that will draw the attention of a cop thinking "what's a thug like him doing driving a fancy car like THAT?  Probably drugs....[flips on the lights]."

Oh, and I bring my same Brisket optimism to this broken cultural issue as I do to the rest of them: we're fucked.  For every cop and police leadership realizing that we need to move to a community policing approach and have no tolerance for racism....they are vastly outnumbered by the warriors hoo-ah get some, back the blue against the thugs types.

Wasn't trying to excuse it, just explain it a little.  

And, the result of that lack of empathy is racism and related sociopathy.

What I meant is that EXISTING or past cultural racism in the deep south, including Jim Crow, is not a prerequisite or necessary ingredient to obtain that result.  The result is the same, whether it's Portland, San Francisco, Minneapolis, or Birmingham, Tupelo, Vidor.

Another way to say it is that the conditions that exist pertaining to race in the deep south exist everywhere, just perhaps with a less open legacy of Jim Crow (and of course, Jim Crow itself is not unique to the south).

Edited by TwiceHorn

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Another "of fucking course":

Police officer told homeowner he could contact Ahmaud Arbery shooting suspect for help with potential trespassers

A text message obtained by CNN shows a Glynn County police officer told the owner of a home under construction near the Georgia coast that he could contact Gregory McMichael for help with potential trespassers seen in surveillance video from his property.

Months later, Gregory McMichael, 64, and his son, Travis McMichael, 34, would be arrested for the February 23 fatal shooting of Ahmaud Arbery, who was jogging through the neighborhood and, according to attorneys for Arbery's family, seen in surveillance footage from the property that day.

Elizabeth Graddy, an attorney for the homeowner, Larry English, said the text exchange occurred on December 20, 2019. In it, English sends a video clip from his surveillance camera to the police officer. The officer responded, telling English that one of English's neighbors is Gregory McMichael, a retired police officer and retired investigator in the local district attorney's office.

McMichael "said please call him day or night when you get action on your camera," the officer wrote in his text message to English.

 

Cops were in on it. 

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On 5/14/2020 at 8:29 AM, Captainant said:

If we're attacking the history of the people involved, can we talk about how the shooter was stripped of his authority to make arrests due to skipping use of force training while he was an officer?

Gotta love the classic "there's a black guy! Better grab my gun" instincts. I wonder if there's a word for that... Racism or being a cop?

Why not both?

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On 5/15/2020 at 12:51 PM, Lobo said:

That is beyond disgusting.  You attorneys...what would the charge be here?  He was certainly being held against his will, what would that look like?  

I anyone in Oklahoma willfully?

Really?

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