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Star Wars Episode IX

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Episode IX was originally supposed to heavily feature Fisher, Lucasfilm President Kathleen Kennedy confirmed to Vanity Fair

well this is good, then.  the worst parts of episodes 7/8 were when hamill/ford/fisher were in scenes.  they're just not good actors (either anymore, or never were), and their scenes were awkward.  if she was still alive and i heard this movie would "heavily feature" her i would think about whether i even wanted to see it.

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They’re going to use footage from 7 & 8 that went unused to piece a story together for her. They had to address her death somehow and give her a proper goodbye as Princess Leia. The Keri Russell hire is very welcomed. Let’s just hope JJ gives her something good to do than be a 5 minute time filler. And fuck yes on Lando being back.

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20 minutes ago, Viper said:

keri russell isn't on that list of the cast

https://deadline.com/2018/07/keri-russell-star-wars-episode-ix-deal-made-cast-1202435383/

Quote

One name conspicuously absent from Disney and Lucasfilm’s unveiling today of the full cast of Star Wars: Episode IX was Keri Russell. The Americans star was confirmed earlier this month to be in talks for a role in the pic, which begins shooting next week in London.

The reason her name wasn’t on the cast list: she hadn’t signed her deal by the time the studio wanted the news to go out today via StarWars.com. Deadline hears though that she has now officially inked for the unknown role, and that she will be in the finale of the Skywalker Saga movies that has a December 20, 2019 release date.

The casting reunites Russell and Star Wars director and co-writer J.J. Abrams, who created her series Felicity, which ran from 1998-2002. Russell and Abrams also worked together on Mission: Impossible III. Abrams co-wrote the Episode IX script with Chris Terrio.

 

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Does this have the feel of the final Star Wars? Ever since I was a kid watching the OT I couldn't wait for the further adventures of Luke, Han, and Leia. You just knew that after 4,5, and 6 that there would be a 7,8, and 9 one day.

So...here we are.

It doesn't feel final. And I have very little confidence that it will get the send off it would deserve even if it is.

Edited by Disco Missile

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Does this have the feel of the final Star Wars? Ever since I was a kid watching the OT I couldn't wait for the further adventures of Luke, Han, and Leia. You just knew that after 4,5, and 6 that there would be a 7,8, and 9 one day.

So...here we are.

It doesn't feel final. And I have very little confidence that it will get the send off it would deserve even if it is.
No chance. Disney will keep cranking them out as long as they make money.

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It's gonna be a B-/C+ movie as per usual. Good luck creating a coherent plot explaining Leia's death with unused footage from the other 2 movies. At best there will be shots in the can looking forlornly into space & muttering Kylo Ren's name. Plus a flashback with Han.

The franchise is going to live on via the Rey/Finn/Poe characters. The only true question is if Kylo Ren is given the redemption treatment, or they make the character go to the Super Duper Dark Side, making him more evil/powerful than any other Sith. If he comes back to the good side then Abrams succeeds in remaking IV-VI. Yawn. If his evil goes to plaid then maybe they can explore some new avenues but even that's unlikely. In 40 years the Empire's gone from destroying planets to destroying solar systems. Do episodes X-XII deal with stopping the universe destroying weapon?

 

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8 minutes ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

It's gonna be a B-/C+ movie as per usual.

 

A well placed scene where Keri and Daisy scissor would give it one full letter grade improvement.  

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That's the scene we pretty much all want. But the only T&A we're getting is Luke milking a dinosaur.

A well placed scene where Keri and Daisy scissor would give it one full letter grade improvement.  

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18 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

A well placed scene where Keri and Daisy scissor would give it one full letter grade improvement.  

It doesn’t have to be that well placed. It can be awkwardly jammed in out of nowhere like, oh say, off the top of my head here, Casino Island and Codebreaker.

 

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20 minutes ago, VolenteHawk said:

It doesn’t have to be that well placed. It can be awkwardly jammed in out of nowhere like, oh say, off the top of my head here, Casino Island and Codebreaker.

 

But it was totally worth it to see the young slave boy move that broom with the Force, amirite?

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The Last Jedi is comparable to the worst of the prequels, either AOTC or TPM. They're all awful. TFA and ROTS are comparable IMO. So yeah, it's close, unfortunately.

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I watched the Star Trek reboot with my kids last night. Abrams got that so right. Who would have thought new ST movies would be so much better than new SW movies?

And LOL at TLJ being on par with TPM. Not even close.

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TLJ and AOTC are coat hanger abortions of a middle act.  Whereas Empire does amazing work developing and advancing characters, creating tension, and setting up for a final act those two just throw feces at a wall.  When you watched Empire for The first time you knew leaving it "well they gotta go get their buddy Han, and what the fuck is this father shit? is that a lie?could it really be true?"  I don't know what the fuck they are going to address in IX and the fact that I don't is how bad VIII was.  You should know going into a final act the basic things that need to be addressed, the "how" is the magic of the story teller.  

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1 hour ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I cant believe 7, 8, and 9 are worse than 1, 2, and 3. Great job Disney

Wow 9 is worse than any of the prequels and it hasn’t even been shot on film yet. The Hyperbole Awakens

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I hadn't been checking these Star Wars threads but you can kinda see which guys are a little too emotionally invested and have long term connections to films like its part of their identity and which guys pay attention to things like acting, direction, plot, character development,  treat the films like any other movie.

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1 hour ago, Red Five said:

The Last Jedi is comparable to the worst of the prequels, either AOTC or TPM. They're all awful. TFA and ROTS are comparable IMO. So yeah, it's close, unfortunately.

n2ej2uvoyad01.gif

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6 hours ago, trza-hawk said:

I hadn't been checking these Star Wars threads but you can kinda see which guys are a little too emotionally invested and have long term connections to films like its part of their identity and which guys pay attention to things like acting, direction, plot, character development,  treat the films like any other movie.

You can be both.

I love the trilogy and the Star Wars universe. Sometimes SW stuff is really done well and it's enjoyable. The entire KOTOR game franchise, the Clone Wars, Timothy Zahn's books, and I really enjoyed Solo and Rogue One. Sometimes it's not done well, and it's nothing but frustrating. I compare it to reading Stephen King novels from the late 90s and early 00s. You recognize the universe and the style, but the genius isn't in it. There's a few gems but it's mostly fluff.

The main saga movies 1-3 and 7-8 have gone from bad to worse. I'm not a film nerd so roll with me if my terminology isn't on point.

It started with George Lucas jimmying with the OT and adding terrible CG to every scene (Han walking on Jabba's tail, Greedo shooting first, random animals everywhere) was the first sign things were going off the rails. It was an indicator that Lucas was getting away from story and characters and focusing on all the movie elements that only matter when the story is good. There are lots of great movies that hold up because of a compelling story or character even when the details aren't great. Vanishing Point. Clerks. Repo Man. Anything by the Coens.
The prequels had a decent plot but the execution was awful. The acting was poor. The characters weren't compelling. It dragged on. It was difficult to follow at times. The CG and green screen and single camera setup limited the impact of the action scenes and kind of neutered the whole movie.

One of my favorite scenes in all of Star Wars is the escape from Echo Base. Han is trying to get Leia out while the base is falling down around them and Imperial troopers are on their tail, and the entire time they are having a sharp, witty dialogue that shows their strong personalities and underlying affection for each other. You instantly like them and want them to be together. And you care what happens to them! Then the Falcon won't start. It's one of the greatest scenes in any movie. It's frantic, funny, and well executed.
Is there anything like that in any recent SW movie? (no)

The most recent films suffer from the same problems.
Disney analyzed the prequels and surmised that the biggest problems were the over-reliance on CG and the long-winded discussions about politics. Which was true.
But they overlooked the need for compelling story and characters. TFA wasn't bad. It was the movie equivalent of a meatball pitch right down the middle, mediocre in almost every way. I don't believe Rey/Finn/Poe are as likable as Luke/Leia/Han, but that's me. TLJ, however, is an abomination of a movie. The story is bad. The characters aren't compelling - except for Kylo Ren who is so misused by this franchise that it's criminal. It doesn't matter how well done the rest of the details are. Story and characters are what people love, and TLJ laid an egg.

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Kylo Ren rant incoming.

Disney is totally misusing the character. Kylo isn't a holy terror like Vader or Maul. If Disney wanted a straight villain they ruined it. Kylo has a soft side. That depth of character makes him interesting and makes people want to know more about him. Gasp, he's compelling! But then he killed Han, so any redemption narrative will require a massive repayment for that deed. In TLJ, again we see his connection to Rey and the depth of the character as he questions and flirts with the line between good and bad. 

In my opinion, the only way TLJ could have been saved is if Kylo and Rey switched sides.
Kylo becomes a good guy and saves the Resistance from the First Order while Rey succumbs to the Dark Side and flees in the command ship after killing Snoke.
That sets up Episode 9 pretty nicely, no? What happens to Rey? Is she really bad? Has Kylo really forsaken the dark side? 

But imo, Disney is too committed to feminist narratives and vanilla writing to attempt something that daring.
So instead we get a meaningless resolution between Rey and Kylo, Holdo warping through a ship, a meaningless battle, and meaningless deaths. In the end nothing happened and nothing about TLJ mattered. Episode IX is totally boxed in and will have to be almost a standalone movie, unless it's a four-hour behemoth that tries to tie up every loose end before final credits.

All I can say to that is please no.

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7 hours ago, mdmost said:

Wow 9 is worse than any of the prequels and it hasn’t even been shot on film yet. The Hyperbole Awakens

It's got too many women in it, Greenspoint hates it

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I loved TFA and didn’t hate TLJ as much as a lot of the surl. But I’d trade them for a Thrawn trilogy right now.

Maybe in IX the Borg will show up and everyone will have to rally against a common enemy.

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14 minutes ago, Buzzrock said:


Maybe in IX the Borg will show up and everyone will have to rally against a common enemy.

they already did that in the EU, it was fucking stupid

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9 hours ago, GreenspointTexas said:

I cant believe 7, 8, and 9 are worse than 1, 2, and 3. Great job Disney

I mean opinions and whatnot, but 7, in no way, imo, is even remotely as close to the steaming pile of shit that 2 is. (haven't seen solo)

OT
R1
7
3
1
8

.

.

.

.

.

.
2

I think there's a chance they could knock 9 out of the park to where it is right around where 7 is. of course, it could be a pile of shit, too.

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I agree that 8 didn’t set up 9 very well and the Kylo has been underutilized.  But Rey and Kylo are great characters.  Poe and Finn are pretty good as well (although 8 did a tremendous disservice to both by having them in meaningless plots).  As long as 9 focuses almost solely on resolving the Rey/Ren story, it has a chance to be really good.  If they try to devote more than a few seconds of plot/screen time to Leia, or spend a bunch of time tying up other plot lines or creating new ones, it’ll suck.

 

My real question is if they will reboot the OT.  If Disney announced they were rebooting Episodes 1-3 and the ones Lucas did were no longer canon, I’d be ok with it.  Anakin should have never been a little kid and his reason for turning to the dark side should have been a lot deeper.  That shit was criminal.

Edited by Snake Diggity

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I was just thinking, there is no one left for Lando to reunite with. They're all dead. Good work Disney. 

 

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The biggest problem is fans expecting the Star Wars series to be able to create complex, multi-layered stories that carry great weight. They WANT it to live up to their greatest fantasies of this amazing galaxy from long ago and far, far away. But as Sir Alec Guinness famously said of episode IV, "you can fit the story on the head of a pin." That's it. That's the truth.

I was 8 years old when SW premiered in '77. Living in small town Minnesota. Parents going through a nasty divorce. SW became my alternative life. After seeing the movie as often as I could I would read the paperback cover to cover repeatedly. It was the perfect escape at a time I desperately needed it. A simple story with easily defined characters & just a hint of a bigger mystery. ESB was the best of the series due to the Kershner/Kasdan influence. Beyond that, you've got a bunch of basic movies doing basic stuff with fancy FX and no new story to tell.

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45 minutes ago, Red Five said:

I was just thinking, there is no one left for Lando to reunite with. They're all dead. Good work Disney. 

 

Nien Nunb would like to tell you to fuck off

 

caNvezA.gif

Edited by mdmost

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4 hours ago, Michael Knight said:

they already did that in the EU, it was fucking stupid

Stupid doesn't begin to describe it.  They devoted far too many books to the Yuuzan Vong shit.  And far too many books devoted to the Solo kids.

I'm not sure what's worse, the Star Trek EU or the Star Wars EU.

To me, Rogue One would be a decent template for what the EU should have been - expand on people and places we don't know much about.  Hell, the "Tales of" Star Wars books were actually pretty decent in that aspect - expanding on minor/background characters.

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5 hours ago, Disco Missile said:

It started with George Lucas jimmying with the OT and adding terrible CG to every scene (Han walking on Jabba's tail, Greedo shooting first, random animals everywhere) was the first sign things were going off the rails. It was an indicator that Lucas was getting away from story and characters and focusing on all the movie elements that only matter when the story is good.

.............

One of my favorite scenes in all of Star Wars is the escape from Echo Base. Han is trying to get Leia out while the base is falling down around them and Imperial troopers are on their tail, and the entire time they are having a sharp, witty dialogue that shows their strong personalities and underlying affection for each other. You instantly like them and want them to be together. And you care what happens to them! Then the Falcon won't start. It's one of the greatest scenes in any movie. It's frantic, funny, and well executed.
Is there anything like that in any recent SW movie? (no)

Agreed completely on the top part - Lucas futzing with the OT was just dumb.  He couldn't leave well enough alone, and a part of me thinks he was unhappy that so many other people (ex-wife, Kershner, etc.) got credit for what he felt was 100% his work, so he had to throw stuff in there.

As for the second part, I felt like JJ was going for that with Rey/Finn's eventual escape in the Falcon.

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5 hours ago, Disco Missile said:

But imo, Disney is too committed to feminist narratives and vanilla writing to attempt something that daring.

Feminist narratives are way down the list of things Disney cares about.  At this point (Mid-2018), these are the top 10 things they care about.

  1. Making bucketloads of money
  2. Paying off the cost of buying LucasFilm (which they may have already done).
  3. Paying for the Fox/Marvel properties ($71 billion)
  4. Making bucketloads of money
  5. Making bucketloads of money
  6. Making bucketloads of money
  7. Making bucketloads of money
  8. Making bucketloads of money
  9. Making bucketloads of money
  10. Making bucketloads of money

Disney is going to play it safe with the main Star Wars movies and try to just remake the OT, with enough changes that your typical mouth breather won't realize they are just remaking the OT.  They gave Rian Johnson a long leash, and so he ran to the end of it, and they won't do that again. 

Things like Rey and Finn and Poe, that's just them making enough changes in their original trio of Luke/Leia/Han that most people will be fooled into thinking that it's a completely new movie, all the while still feeling comfortable with the characters.  Plus, they know males will come in to watch Star Wars no matter what, so they can hand the main lead over to Rey in an effort to bring women in, all the while keeping her and Finn as the audience stand-ins.

At the end of the day, Disney cares about money.  Solo bit them in the ass, and it remains to be seen if they learned their lesson (they won't).  It's not going to help that they are probably going to do Lando and Obi-Wan movies, both of which will probably make a tidy profit, which will further give them a sense of false confidence.

 

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

Agreed completely on the top part - Lucas futzing with the OT was just dumb.  He couldn't leave well enough alone, and a part of me thinks he was unhappy that so many other people (ex-wife, Kershner, etc.) got credit for what he felt was 100% his work, so he had to throw stuff in there.

As for the second part, I felt like JJ was going for that with Rey/Finn's eventual escape in the Falcon.

The characters in the new trilogy are straight out of a YA novel or a Power Rangers movie. 

Rey is the serious leader with hidden talents, but she's secretly lonely. She's eager to find her destiny! And her true family!
Finn is a former stormtrooper that quit when a friend died, but this lovable #2 attaches to everyone and everything really, really quickly.
Poe is a plucky secret operative pilot with a hatred of 'bad guys' who happens to be an eternal optimist. 

It took me a while to figure out why I didn't connect with them. There's not a lot of emotional depth here. There's rarely a solemn emotional moment where you feel the weight on their shoulders outside of Han's death, which seemed contrived. Same problem the OT had, except the OT did a hammy job of trying to force it.

That's when I realized that I was watching a kid's movie. One made for kids aged 9-15 or thereabouts. Just like the prequels.

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7 hours ago, GhostOfTomJoad said:

The biggest problem is fans expecting the Star Wars series to be able to create complex, multi-layered stories that carry great weight. They WANT it to live up to their greatest fantasies of this amazing galaxy from long ago and far, far away. But as Sir Alec Guinness famously said of episode IV, "you can fit the story on the head of a pin." That's it. That's the truth. 

I was 8 years old when SW premiered in '77. Living in small town Minnesota. Parents going through a nasty divorce. SW became my alternative life. After seeing the movie as often as I could I would read the paperback cover to cover repeatedly. It was the perfect escape at a time I desperately needed it. A simple story with easily defined characters & just a hint of a bigger mystery. ESB was the best of the series due to the Kershner/Kasdan influence. Beyond that, you've got a bunch of basic movies doing basic stuff with fancy FX and no new story to tell. 

You absolutely could tell amazing and complex stories in the Star Wars universe.  The only problem is, you'd have to give up this whole market tested, appeal to everyone, make sure the parents can watch it with their kids, and sell lots and lots of toys shit. 

You want a simple idea that would fucking blow people away?  A rated R film about Vader going around as a rage-machine and killing all the Jedi who escaped Order 66.  Like the Vader comic is doing.  Make it almost a fucking horror movie like Vader's walk of death down the ship corridor at the end of Rogue One.  You could do a deep dive on Vader, his psyche, his relationship with the Emperor and Tarkin, and the utter terror he inspires in those who face him.  Finally let him off the fucking leash.  But Disney will never in a million years make that movie.  Can't be selling Decapitated Jedi Master XYZ to the kiddos.  Can't be making lunchboxes with Vader's horribly burned and scarred face on the front as he force chokes the life out of someone who dared crack his helmet.

The Star Wars Universe feels small because its massive success has pigeon-holed it into making blockbuster popcorn movies where the good guys always win in the end and light triumphs over dark.  When you try and step out from that even a little bit (like with Rogue One), you're still hamstrung into tying it in to shit that came before.  Because we gotta sell them tickets, sell them toys, and appease everyone with the nostalgia factor.

Filoni is the only one having success with this IP and its because he's working on a smaller scale so he's not as beholden to all these bullshit rules for the SW universe.  His cartoons are based on the established timeline, but he's made up a ton of great characters out of whole cloth.  He actually made Anakin not suck.  He made the Clone Troopers interesting.  He gave us complex villains in Ventriss and the reincarnated Maul.  Ashoka ended up being a character you could actually feel good about rooting for and her whole arc through to Rebels was great. 

Great stories can be done in the SW universe.  They just can't be done on the big screen by Disney.  Gotta protect that "We love the kids!" and "we're a family first company!" bullshit while making sure they keep the shareholders Scrooge McDucking into giant piles of money.

 

Edited by SpiralOut

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Disney is absolutely invested in female empowerment narratives. It was obvious within about five minutes that Holdo was going to turn out to be the wise enlightened female leader to Poe’s stupid arrogant impulsive male idiocy. There was no twist there. It’s the narrative of the day from Hollywood.

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8 hours ago, SpiralOut said:

You want a simple idea that would fucking blow people away?  A rated R film about Vader going around as a rage-machine and killing all the Jedi who escaped Order 66.  Like the Vader comic is doing.  Make it almost a fucking horror movie like Vader's walk of death down the ship corridor at the end of Rogue One.  You could do a deep dive on Vader, his psyche, his relationship with the Emperor and Tarkin, and the utter terror he inspires in those who face him.  Finally let him off the fucking leash. 

This rarely ever works for movies. The best thing Star Wars could do is create new villains. Maul was great. Kylo is fine. 

Watch the YouTube video Dutchrudder posted and apply that generally to iconic villains.
Iconic villains are great because they're foils to the hero and exist as a mysterious, creeping malevolence always threatening to destroy the good.
Featuring the villain forces them into a protagonist role, which requires a lot of baggage and explaining things about the character, which ruins the mystique.

Besides, there are only a few ways to go with these 'villain as the hero' movies:
1) you can play it for laughs or make it meta. Think later Freddy Krueger and Jason movies, American Psycho, anything from Tarantino
2) you can make it really dark, like Taxi Driver, Devil's Rejects, Hannibal, The Shining, etc. but the problem there is that Vader would need to be a psycho, which he's not
3) you can make Vader a tragic figure, like Frankenstein, Darkman, The Fly, or Maleficent, but this creates a sympathetic villain. Lucas already tried this and failed. It's the hardest to pull off and has never been done with a recurring character. 

As for me, I like Vader and Boba Fett and every other villain being mysterious badasses. I don't need or want to know what they eat for breakfast, what underwear they prefer, or why they are the way they are. They exist, and they're awesome. That's enough.

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2 hours ago, Disco Missile said:

This rarely ever works for movies. The best thing Star Wars could do is create new villains. Maul was great. Kylo is fine. 

Watch the YouTube video Dutchrudder posted and apply that generally to iconic villains.
Iconic villains are great because they're foils to the hero and exist as a mysterious, creeping malevolence always threatening to destroy the good.
Featuring the villain forces them into a protagonist role, which requires a lot of baggage and explaining things about the character, which ruins the mystique.

Besides, there are only a few ways to go with these 'villain as the hero' movies:
1) you can play it for laughs or make it meta. Think later Freddy Krueger and Jason movies, American Psycho, anything from Tarantino
2) you can make it really dark, like Taxi Driver, Devil's Rejects, Hannibal, The Shining, etc. but the problem there is that Vader would need to be a psycho, which he's not
3) you can make Vader a tragic figure, like Frankenstein, Darkman, The Fly, or Maleficent, but this creates a sympathetic villain. Lucas already tried this and failed. It's the hardest to pull off and has never been done with a recurring character. 

As for me, I like Vader and Boba Fett and every other villain being mysterious badasses. I don't need or want to know what they eat for breakfast, what underwear they prefer, or why they are the way they are. They exist, and they're awesome. That's enough.

Well, my reasoning would be that at this point Vader's mystique has already been obliterated by the Prequels.  His character needs some rehabilitation.  Like I said, the Vader comic has been doing a phenomenal job with this.  They don't go too deep on what Vader himself is thinking and it's more how other characters perceive him, but it has done an amazing job of molding him back into what he was always supposed to be.  A scary as fuck, rage fueled machine who has no mercy.

Though I'd be more than happy with them just creating brand new characters/settings inside the universe.  Of course, the problem always ends up being it's Jedi v. Sith, Rebels v. Empire, lightsabers, callback after callback to the OT, and PG-13 nonsense. 

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10 hours ago, PilotsError said:

If you want to attract female viewers, you create characters like Hans solo. Sarcastic bad boys.

*Han

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Maybe I’m the only one but I think the Kylo Ren character is terrible. Way too over dramatic and over done, trying too hard to be deep, and nothing about him draws me in in any way. It probably doesn’t help that the dude that plays him completely reminds me of Keanu Reeves, who might be the worst actor to ever earn a paycheck.

 

 

 

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