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Posted
1 hour ago, South Austin said:

I'm not buying it.  Sure, she is publicly breaking with Johnson/MAGA on some stuff.  But she's still more MAGA than human now.

MAGA is no longer about political ideology it’s demonstrating unwavering fealty to the orange god. She will soon be labeled a rino and drummed out of the party if she doesn’t fall back in line. 
 

that being said I don’t think she ends up in the Democratic Party especially since people like Cheney and Kinzinger haven’t 

Posted

If he had a good primary challenger I probably wouldn't vote for Walsh in a Dem primary, but one thing you absolutely know about him is the only thing he really cares about today is the destruction of Trump and the modern GOP, and I could certainly live with that.

Posted
23 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

This is extremely well said and is not only a great summarization of whats wrong with the entire mindset of the report and the party in general.

The entire idea, for example, that “Medicare for All” as a policy proposal cost Democrats votes in the aggregate is fucking retarded.

I mean calling it “Medicare for all” doomed it

Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The real test would be someone like Joe Walsh, who was never MAGA but was definitely pre-MAGA and still doesn't align with Democrats on much, but hates MAGA more than he ever hated Dems and knows how to fight them.  

Exactly. Not a hard call. I’m not sure he knows how to fight them, but he recognized early on what we’re collectively up against and broke with it at great personal and professional cost. Same deal with Liz Cheney. 
 

We’re fighting for our lives here. Democrats need to understand that being in the opposition means accepting the co-belligerents who are willing to work with Democrats to defeat a common threat. Whether inside or outside of the party, there’s no reason to worry about policy differences unless and until they win. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
2 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

MAGA is no longer about political ideology it’s demonstrating unwavering fealty to the orange god. She will soon be labeled a rino and drummed out of the party if she doesn’t fall back in line. 
 

that being said I don’t think she ends up in the Democratic Party especially since people like Cheney and Kinzinger haven’t 

MTG will never shift left because she's authentically crazy in a specific, reactionary way. 

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

I mean calling it “Medicare for all” doomed it

No. Being chickenshit about Universal Healthcare doomed the Democratic Party. 

”Green New Deal” sucks*, Medicare for All is great branding and a great call to action.



* and I love the idea of a Green New Deal

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Exactly. Not a hard call. I’m not sure he knows how to fight them, but he recognized early on what we’re collectively up against and broke with it at great personal and professional cost. Same deal with Liz Cheney. 
 

We’re fighting for our lives here. Democrats need to understand that being in the opposition means accepting the co-belligerents who are willing to work with Democrats to defeat a common threat. Whether inside or outside of the party, there’s no reason to worry about policy differences unless and until they win. 

I'm worried about welcoming people who appear to be co-belligerents but aren't. People like Fetterman, Sinema, and Manchin actively hinder the fight. Manchin was a bit of a special case because he was still preferable to literally anyone else who could win a senate seat in West Virginia. I don't think Platner is that.

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Posted
1 minute ago, wildcat09 said:

People like Fetterman, Sinema, and Manchin actively hinder the fight.

No, I’ll give you Sinema because she stopped being a co-belligerent but Fetterman and Manchin are exactly what I’m talking about Democrats welcoming more of. And if they don’t want to do that they should try not losing so much.

Sorry!

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No. Being chickenshit about Universal Healthcare doomed the Democratic Party. 

”Green New Deal” sucks*, Medicare for All is great branding and a great call to action.



* and I love the idea of a Green New Deal

If you’re a progressive Medicare for all is great branding. If you are a centrist (in the traditional sense; no such thing these days) it triggers images of higher taxes and inefficient delivery to the end user. Is there a better catch phrase? Maybe not

Posted
15 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

I'm worried about welcoming people who appear to be co-belligerents but aren't. People like Fetterman, Sinema, and Manchin actively hinder the fight. Manchin was a bit of a special case because he was still preferable to literally anyone else who could win a senate seat in West Virginia. I don't think Platner is that.

Can you name another person in Maine who would be favored head to head over Collins? Other than the 100 year old  governor 

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Posted
52 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

The real test would be someone like Joe Walsh, who was never MAGA but was definitely pre-MAGA and still doesn't align with Democrats on much, but hates MAGA more than he ever hated Dems and knows how to fight them. 

He was never really an Eagle in my book, either.

Posted
5 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

If you’re a progressive Medicare for all is great branding. If you are a centrist (in the traditional sense; no such thing these days) it triggers images of higher taxes and inefficient delivery to the end user. Is there a better catch phrase? Maybe not

Hey man I am not saying inefficiency and high taxes are great.

But I think the last 40 or so years has shown that they are better than the alternative. The saying was that Socialism is great until you run out of other people's money. Well we got rid of Socialism and we ran out of money anyway. Incredibly we weren't running out of money back in the New Deal/Great Society era.

18 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Can you name another person in Maine who would be favored head to head over Collins? Other than the 100 year old  governor 

I don't know anything about Maine and ultimately it is up to the voters there.

But damn...it isn't a good look man. But if he wins the Primary, he wins the Primary.

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Posted
33 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

No, I’ll give you Sinema because she stopped being a co-belligerent but Fetterman and Manchin are exactly what I’m talking about Democrats welcoming more of. And if they don’t want to do that they should try not losing so much.

Sorry!

Fetterman spends most of his time attacking Democratic voters and saying we shouldn't oppose Trump so much. He's probably a year away from switching parties. We'd be better off right now if Connor Lamb had won that primary. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Fetterman spends most of his time attacking Democratic voters and saying we shouldn't oppose Trump so much. He's probably a year away from switching parties. We'd be better off right now if Connor Lamb had won that primary. 

Yeah Fetterman isn't bringing some kind of bold centrist vision that will be more inclusive and popular. He just kind of cries about people being mean. I don't see how that wimpy energy is going to help the Democrats win.

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Posted
34 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

Can you name another person in Maine who would be favored head to head over Collins? Other than the 100 year old  governor 

 

17 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Stephen King.  Although he's the only resident of Maine I've ever heard of.

Anna Kendrick is from Maine and would have my vote.

IMG_6102.thumb.webp.29fc1f82a6da49c5b9eaf12e90d04185.webp

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Posted
21 minutes ago, The Original Greaser Bob said:

Stephen King.  Although he's the only resident of Maine I've ever heard of.

I love Stephen King. He will be 79 next year 

Posted
17 minutes ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah Fetterman isn't bringing some kind of bold centrist vision that will be more inclusive and popular. He just kind of cries about people being mean. I don't see how that wimpy energy is going to help the Democrats win.

It's pretty striking how much Platner's current whining resembles Fetterman's behavior. At least Fetterman has the excuse of he had a stroke and clearly has never really recovered fully from it. 

Posted
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

We’re fighting for our lives here. Democrats need to understand that being in the opposition means accepting the co-belligerents who are willing to work with Democrats to defeat a common threat. Whether inside or outside of the party, there’s no reason to worry about policy differences unless and until they win. 

This.  Again, we sent a kabillion dollars worth of military kit to fucking STALIN to fight a common enemy.  And it was the right move.

I am a single-issue voter: do you oppose MAGA in the interest of keeping this Republic in existence?  That's it.  That's my sole issue.   Because if we lose on THAT one, then every other fucking issue and policy is fucking moot.

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Posted
25 minutes ago, wildcat09 said:

Fetterman spends most of his time attacking Democratic voters and saying we shouldn't oppose Trump so much

FWIW, Ezra Klein had Jared Abbott from the Center for Working Class Politics on and they discussed a vision of Dem or Independent candidates taking this position electorally.  
 

I can’t imagine someone like a Talarico occupying this space, but maybe someone like a Troy Aikman running as an independent in Texas-a union guy, not a historical Dem, but also not MAGA yet willing to align with Trump on issues like border security.

Posted
9 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

FWIW, Ezra Klein had Jared Abbott from the Center for Working Class Politics on and they discussed a vision of Dem or Independent candidates taking this position electorally.  
 

I can’t imagine someone like a Talarico occupying this space, but maybe someone like a Troy Aikman running as an independent in Texas-a union guy, not a historical Dem, but also not MAGA yet willing to align with Trump on issues like border security.

We’d need Emmitt in the other seat 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

FWIW, Ezra Klein had Jared Abbott from the Center for Working Class Politics on and they discussed a vision of Dem or Independent candidates taking this position electorally.  
 

I can’t imagine someone like a Talarico occupying this space, but maybe someone like a Troy Aikman running as an independent in Texas-a union guy, not a historical Dem, but also not MAGA yet willing to align with Trump on issues like border security.

No, that's horrible politics and is quite literally a big part of why Dems lost in 2024 (and lost in many prior elections). Telling voters "Trump is right about immigration and the border and how important it is, and Dems are weak pussies on it, and I will be like Trump on it but just a little nicer" is just telling undecided voters to vote for Trump. Biden and the Dems were actually very anti-immigration during his administration.  That's why the public shifted so strongly against immigration generally between 2020 and 2024, and look what good that did. Trump's overreach provides another opportunity for Dems to embrace immigration as a fundamental part of the American dream. Legal immigration used to be pretty popular even among white Americans and it could be again.

If Dems want to try to appeal to some of the racists on immigration, they should yell about how Trump cut a deal with the cartels and brought a bunch of high-level cartel guys into the country and that they'll send those guys back. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

If you are a centrist (in the traditional sense; no such thing these days) it triggers images of higher taxes and inefficient delivery to the end user.

say what now

Posted
1 hour ago, Sawbonz said:

If you’re a progressive Medicare for all is great branding. If you are a centrist (in the traditional sense; no such thing these days) it triggers images of higher taxes and inefficient delivery to the end user.

No, that’s false. It’s not just wrong on the merits of that, it’s also not aligned to the voting behavior of so-called centrists. Heterodox voters do not occupy some kind of very policy-oriented middle ground between small and big government or high and low taxes. 
 

Medicare for All is objectively and empirically great branding. It was great on style and great on substance.  It’s clear, immediate, certain, and tangible. It combines a popular thing with a universal thing, for everyone it alienated it picked up two, and it worked across the map.
It’s old news now and they need to move to something new, but it didn’t cost Democrats anything and they should t have squandered it.  Stop thinking in GOP framing. 
 

1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

Fetterman spends most of his time attacking Democratic voters and saying we shouldn't oppose Trump so much. He's probably a year away from switching parties. We'd be better off right now if Connor Lamb had won that primary. 


But Lamb didn’t win. Fetterman won, he’s popular, he’s interesting, and he’s not MAGA. You don’t have the luxury of choosing alies  until your party stops losing the races that count. 

 

1 hour ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah Fetterman isn't bringing some kind of bold centrist vision that will be more inclusive and popular. He just kind of cries about people being mean. I don't see how that wimpy energy is going to help the Democrats win.


Except the election that he won in a swing state, Jesus. 
 

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Posted
2 hours ago, Sawbonz said:

If you’re a progressive Medicare for all is great branding. If you are a centrist (in the traditional sense; no such thing these days) it triggers images of higher taxes and inefficient delivery to the end user. Is there a better catch phrase? Maybe not

Medicare for You

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Except the election that he won in a swing state, Jesus. 

Yeah? And that state hates him now. I dispute the notion he is popular.

Edited by Valmy77
Posted
Just now, Valmy77 said:

Yeah? And that state hates him now.

Republicans approve of the job he's doing. I'm not sure how that helps non-fascists, though.

Posted
Just now, wildcat09 said:

Republicans approve of the job he's doing. I'm not sure how that helps non-fascists, though.

He is still a Democrat enough that they would prefer an actual Republican.

Posted

For a long time, the only people that liked Medicare were the people not on it.

So, yeah, those who have been on Medicare for a while, who are reliable voters, might have seen it as making a shitty system more ubiquitous.

I think, though, they have gained a new appreciation for it as they hear about their children paying $1500/month for health insurance.

Posted

All the handwringing about Platner has done nothing but reveal, to anyone who hadn't yet been paying attention, how little influence these prolific posters actually have outside their immediate spheres of like-minded prolific posters.

Janet Mills has no shot at beating Susan Collins, and has never faced an opponent remotely as formidable as Susan Collins. In 2018, aided by the Blue Wave, she beat a complete fucking nobody (Shawn Moody) who fired an employee for having had a c-section.

In 2022, in the Red Wave That Did Not Happen(TM), she beat psycho MAGA ex-governor Paul LePage, whose approval ratings during his final term never exceeded 40 percent and who had only ever won his previous elections with pluralities of 37.4 percent, 37.6 percent, and 48.2 percent, back before Maine had RCV.

In college football terms, Janet Mills is a middling G5 program (Texas State, perhaps) that's undefeated in Week 3 because she faced an FCS school in Week 1 and Sam Houston State in Week 2. Susan Collins is University of Cincinnati. Not elite, but way more formidable than and likely to crush the Bobcats/Mills.

Jordan Wood has no shot at beating Susan Collins, no matter how badly the BlueSky Zionist libs wish it were the other way. He would fare even worse than Sara Gideon did in 2020. The guy has spent his entire adult life being a congressional staffer, for Californian representatives, including Katie Porter. Yes, this, Katie Porter.

The Susan Collin ads write themselves. In college football terms, Jordan Wood is UTSA (wouldn't even beat Texas State at home) and anyone who actually believes he would win a general election hasn't been paying attention.

Nobody else has any shot at being Susan Collins, because if they did you'd already have heard of them and they'd already have thrown their hats in the race. No Stephen King (too old). No Erin Andrews (who's probably a MAGAt like most sports media figures that have enjoyed any kind of success). No Anna Kendrick.

Technically, it's true that it's "not too late" for someone else to step up, to transition from a nobody to a somebody, but that's a completely unrealistic strategy. The reason Maine voters have grown so quickly to support Platner is because he is from outside the political mainstream, so in order to replicate his success the party would have to be completely hands-off. That just isn't going to happen. It has a lower population than Austin Metro's, so the field is going to be small by design.

How many people from that small population fit the profile of being completely unattached to the party apparatus, championing Bernie's policies, and "looking the part" of the sort of dude young men would have a beer with. The sort of candidate they wouldn't even have to hold their noses to rank on their ballots. He is the only candidate who matches up well with Susan Collins, because he's the only candidate who can flip a demographic that actually matters in a state like Maine.

In college football terms, Platner is a team with a dual threat QB (Vandy) the likes of which Cincinnati/Mills has not yet seen. He's where all the excitement can be found, in Maine. Definitely not perfect by any means, and if you were to look at this matchup through the lens of traditional politics/football it would suggest that his lack of experience and the oppo research, you would think he's too flawed to have any success. If you look at this matchup the way things really are on the ground, however, you begin to recognize that politics (and football) are very different today than ten years ago. You gotta throw conventional wisdom out the window, and do what it takes to win. The excitement on the ground is how points are scored these days. Trump figured that out in 2016, and the progressives who are most capable of generating excitement on the ground are the same ones who consistently beat the spread.

Of the entire Maine senate field, Platner and only Platner has figured that out. The tankies, who never had any clout and are pathologically miserable people who prefer to be unsuccessful if it means they get to be smug, and Zionists, who can't cope with the fact that Israel has never been less popular and will never be popular again, are burning mad about this dude not dropping out.

Oh, on the fear of him becoming the next Fetterman, Gallego, Sinema. I get it, but at this stage I believe the risk is overblown. He's still going to be no worse than Mills or Collins, so it would still be a net win. If I'm wrong, I'll gladly eat crow, but right now I'm not concerned about him being a secret centrist.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Valmy77 said:

Yeah Fetterman isn't bringing some kind of bold centrist vision that will be more inclusive and popular. He just kind of cries about people being mean. I don't see how that wimpy energy is going to help the Democrats win.

which is crazy bc didn't he basically threaten to beat Paxton's ass in 2020 or something? 🤔 maybe i'm misremembering...

Posted
24 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This thread is a fucking beating. 

Well...consider the topic.

11 minutes ago, mchookem said:

which is crazy bc didn't he basically threaten to beat Paxton's ass in 2020 or something? 🤔 maybe i'm misremembering...

Pre-2023 Fetterman was a different sort of dude.

Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

This thread is a fucking beating. 

I was in a meeting a few weeks ago with a group of Democrats between 25 and 35, a person who’s thinking about running for office, and a couple of longtime Democratic consultants. 
The perspective candidate and the consultants were shocked that the  young Democrats said that cost-of-living was their biggest issue and healthcare was their second biggest issue. They were also shocked that the group was unanimous that the Democratic party had allowed housing and healthcare costs to destroy their prospects of attaining the American dream. 
 

This thread is a beating because this party is feckless, toothless, spineless, out of touch and has institutionalized losing. The national party has followed the example of the Texas Democratic Party, and is achieving the same results.

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
19 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Of the entire Maine senate field, Platner and only Platner has figured that out.

Pos rep even though you poo-poo'd on my very realistic Anna Kendrick candidacy.  

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Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

For a long time, the only people that liked Medicare were the people not on it.

So, yeah, those who have been on Medicare for a while, who are reliable voters, might have seen it as making a shitty system more ubiquitous.

I think, though, they have gained a new appreciation for it as they hear about their children paying $1500/month for health insurance.

My dad has been so pleased with Medicare that he thanked me for paying the taxes that fund it

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Posted
14 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I was in a meeting a few weeks ago with a group of Democrats between 25 and 35, a person who’s thinking about running for office, and a couple of longtime Democratic consultants. 
The perspective candidate and the consultants were shocked that the  young Democrats said that cost-of-living was their biggest issue and healthcare was their second biggest issue. They were also shocked that the group was unanimous that the Democratic party had allowed housing and healthcare costs to destroy their prospects of attaining the American dream. 
 

This thread is a beating because this party is feckless, toothless, spineless, out of touch and has institutionalized losing. The national party has followed the example of the Texas Democratic Party, and is achieving the same results.

Anyone involved in Democratic politics who is shocked that young people are worried about the cost of living should be thrown into a fucking volcano. That's not some obscure ideological issue that the kids these days are fixated on. 

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Posted
17 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:


The perspective candidate and the consultants were shocked that the  young Democrats said that cost-of-living was their biggest issue and healthcare was their second biggest issue. They were also shocked that the group was unanimous that the Democratic party had allowed housing and healthcare costs to destroy their prospects of attaining the American dream

 

I really want to know what fucking planet these people live on that they were shocked by any of this. I mean, I know it's true, I just can't conceive of how it's possible they have insulated themselves that completely. 

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Posted
14 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

I really want to know what fucking planet these people live on that they were shocked by any of this. I mean, I know it's true, I just can't conceive of how it's possible they have insulated themselves that completely. 

Even the fucking poll dorks know this shit! 

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Posted
1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Except the election that he won in a swing state, Jesus. 

Yeah fucking before his brain got turned into scrambled eggs and he became a piece of shit that does nothing for the party but have a D next to his name?

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Posted (edited)

I don't think Fetterman was a pretend Democrat like Sinema.  The stroke clearly changed his brain chemistry.  He's not the same person he was before it.

Edited by kevwun
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