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Posted
51 minutes ago, HenryJames said:

 

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I'm sure that the GQP is fine covering the huge medical bills associated with trying to keep infants alive in the NICU (most likely suffering) when it's clear that they're not going to survive - right???  Right??? 

I'm confident that at some point they'll roll out some fictional case where a baby miraculously survived despite doctors saying that it wouldn't, just to combat the backlash that is coming.  Fucking monsters.

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Posted
On 10/21/2024 at 1:01 PM, Gap03 said:

I'm sure that the GQP is fine covering the huge medical bills associated with trying to keep infants alive in the NICU (most likely suffering) when it's clear that they're not going to survive - right???  Right??? 

I'm confident that at some point they'll roll out some fictional case where a baby miraculously survived despite doctors saying that it wouldn't, just to combat the backlash that is coming.  Fucking monsters.

You kidding me?? That'll result in HUGE profits for the insurance and hospital companies! They'd love to have more chances to ensnare ever more millions of America into their debt cycle and savings destruction machine

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Posted
5 minutes ago, Captainant said:

@Anastasis come on down and claim your award for the cessation of barbarism in Texas! Thank goodness we can all enjoy success stories like this on the regular now

https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban

 

The fetus was on the verge of coming out, its head pressed against her dilated cervix; she was 17 weeks pregnant and a miscarriage was “in progress,” doctors noted in hospital records. At that point, they should have offered to speed up the delivery or empty her uterus to stave off a deadly infection, more than a dozen medical experts told ProPublica.

 

But when Barnica’s husband rushed to her side from his job on a construction site, she relayed what she said the medical team had told her: “They had to wait until there was no heartbeat,” he told ProPublica in Spanish. “It would be a crime to give her an abortion.”

 

For 40 hours, the anguished 28-year-old mother prayed for doctors to help her get home to her daughter; all the while, her uterus remained exposed to bacteria.

 

Three days after she delivered, Barnica died of an infection.

I saw that this morning as well. Absolutely horrifying and infuriating.

On top of the rest of it, I had not heard the part about Trump joking about the Georgia woman who died. To call him a piece of shit is disrespectful to shit. 

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Posted
57 minutes ago, Captainant said:

@Anastasis come on down and claim your award for the cessation of barbarism in Texas! Thank goodness we can all enjoy success stories like this on the regular now

https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban

 

The fetus was on the verge of coming out, its head pressed against her dilated cervix; she was 17 weeks pregnant and a miscarriage was “in progress,” doctors noted in hospital records. At that point, they should have offered to speed up the delivery or empty her uterus to stave off a deadly infection, more than a dozen medical experts told ProPublica.

 

But when Barnica’s husband rushed to her side from his job on a construction site, she relayed what she said the medical team had told her: “They had to wait until there was no heartbeat,” he told ProPublica in Spanish. “It would be a crime to give her an abortion.”

 

For 40 hours, the anguished 28-year-old mother prayed for doctors to help her get home to her daughter; all the while, her uterus remained exposed to bacteria.

 

Three days after she delivered, Barnica died of an infection.

Every Republican in Texas who voted for the abortion ban should be charged w/ involuntary manslaughter.  Goddamnnit this makes me fucking furious. 

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Posted
12 minutes ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Every Republican in Texas who voted for the abortion ban should be charged w/ involuntary manslaughter.  Goddamnnit this makes me fucking furious. 

Nothing involuntary about it. Murder two at least. 

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Posted
1 hour ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Every Republican in Texas who voted for the abortion ban should be charged w/ involuntary manslaughter.  Goddamnnit this makes me fucking furious. 

One of these days one of these husbands is going to snap, and I won't feel sorry for any of the Republican legislators who end up getting caught in the crossfire.  These fucks have been told from day one the likely outcome of these laws and they don't give a damn, so neither will I.

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Posted
5 hours ago, Captainant said:

@Anastasis come on down and claim your award for the cessation of barbarism in Texas! Thank goodness we can all enjoy success stories like this on the regular now

https://www.propublica.org/article/josseli-barnica-death-miscarriage-texas-abortion-ban

 

The fetus was on the verge of coming out, its head pressed against her dilated cervix; she was 17 weeks pregnant and a miscarriage was “in progress,” doctors noted in hospital records. At that point, they should have offered to speed up the delivery or empty her uterus to stave off a deadly infection, more than a dozen medical experts told ProPublica.

 

But when Barnica’s husband rushed to her side from his job on a construction site, she relayed what she said the medical team had told her: “They had to wait until there was no heartbeat,” he told ProPublica in Spanish. “It would be a crime to give her an abortion.”

 

For 40 hours, the anguished 28-year-old mother prayed for doctors to help her get home to her daughter; all the while, her uterus remained exposed to bacteria.

 

Three days after she delivered, Barnica died of an infection.

What you fail to understand that women suffering and dying is a feature, not a bug.

What is the most effective way to send the message to an entire demographic that they have no worth except whatever worth you deign to allow them to have?  Take their lives in your hands....and end them...with no consequences.  We (Texas Republicans) literally have the power to decide whether you live or die.  You have no say in the matter.  THAT'S power.

This is just a message being sent.  It will be sent repeatedly until you inferior serfs get it through your heads: anything you have is subject to the whims of the GQP; they can and will take whatever they want, whenever they want...including your life.

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Posted
2 hours ago, Goofyboy said:

Texas Evangelical Christians do not care if women die. “It’s gods will.” “They are in a better place now.” Etc etc.

This is what pisses me off. If those morons want to choose this approach and put their lives in God’s hands, nobody will stop them. However, for the rest of us, can we just let the doctors and nurses do their job?

Its absolutely infuriating that the Texas Taliban run by 2 asshole billionaires in Midland get to make these decisions for everyone.

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Posted

Propublica with some excellent reporting as always:

https://www.propublica.org/article/georgia-dismisses-maternal-mortality-committee-amber-thurman-candi-miller


Georgia officials have dismissed all members of a state committee charged with investigating deaths of pregnant women. The move came in response to ProPublica having obtained internal reports detailing two deaths.

ProPublica reported in September on the deaths of Amber Thurman and Candi Miller, which the state maternal mortality review committee had determined were preventable. They were the first reported cases of women who died without access to care restricted by a state abortion ban, and they unleashed a torrent of outrage over the fatal consequences of such laws. The women’s stories became a central discussion in the presidential campaign and ballot initiatives involving abortion access in 10 states.

“Confidential information provided to the Maternal Mortality Review Committee was inappropriately shared with outside individuals,” Dr. Kathleen Toomey, commissioner of the state Department of Public Health, wrote in a letter dated Nov. 8 and addressed to members of the committee. “Even though this disclosure was investigated, the investigation was unable to uncover which individual(s) disclosed confidential information.

“Therefore, effective immediately the current MMRC is disbanded, and all member seats will be filled through a new application process.”

A health department spokesperson declined to comment on the decision to dismiss the committee, saying that the letter, which the department provided to ProPublica, “speaks for itself.” Georgia Gov. Brian Kemp’s office also declined to comment, referring questions to the health department.

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Posted
14 hours ago, Captainant said:

You'd be better off @'ing the hospital administrators. 

The Texas law certainly has flaws. Shit, I don't think it's an issue that is best addressed through the legal system at all.

But there is a common thread in most of these (extremely rare, but egregious) situations. The hospital systems are creating policies and protocols that are wrongheaded.

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Posted

As stated in the link: 

But when Dr. Andrew Ryan Davis, the obstetrician on duty, finally arrived, he said it was the hospital’s “routine” to give a drug called misoprostol to help the body pass the tissue, Hope recalled. Hope trusted the doctor. Porsha took the pills, according to records, and the bleeding continued.

 

Posted
13 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You'd be better off @'ing the hospital administrators. 

The Texas law certainly has flaws. Shit, I don't think it's an issue that is best addressed through the legal system at all.

But there is a common thread in most of these (extremely rare, but egregious) situations. The hospital systems are creating policies and protocols that are wrongheaded.

What a coincidence that every hospital that actually looks at the law and tries to figure out how it applies to them comes to a different conclusion than you. They should all hire you as a consultant, obviously, to tell them how they can comply with the law while providing necessary care.

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Posted
1 hour ago, wildcat09 said:

What a coincidence that every hospital that actually looks at the law and tries to figure out how it applies to them comes to a different conclusion than you. They should all hire you as a consultant, obviously, to tell them how they can comply with the law while providing necessary care.

Maybe they should. I'd tell them to provide any needed miscarriage management care as directed by the treating OBGYN. The law draws no distinction between misoprostol and D&C wrt elective abortions, so administering misoprostol for miscarriage management and blaming the Texas abortion law for not progressing to D&C when medically warranted just doesn't logically hold together. Miscarriage management is explicitly excluded from the definition of abortion in the statute. If the law needs clarification such that facilities and providers are not hesitant to use D&C when medically necessary, TMA should work with legislators to fix that. 

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Posted
4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

Maybe they should. I'd tell them to provide any needed miscarriage management care as directed by the treating OBGYN. The law draws no distinction between misoprostol and D&C wrt elective abortions, so administering misoprostol for miscarriage management and blaming the Texas abortion law for not progressing to D&C when medically warranted just doesn't logically hold together. Miscarriage management is explicitly excluded from the definition of abortion in the statute. If the law needs clarification such that facilities and providers are not hesitant to use D&C when medically necessary, TMA should work with legislators to fix that. 

It's almost like the cruelty towards women is a feature and not a bug, or something.

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Posted
Just now, jimmyjazz said:

It's almost as if there aren't thousands of medical practioners in Texas who disagree with @Anastasis's viewpoint.

If there is anything in that post that they disagree with, they can certainly post it and we can discuss it. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

If there is anything in that post that they disagree with, they can certainly post it and we can discuss it. 

I think they've been pretty adamant that they can't take the risk.

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Gap03 said:

Ana is one disingenuous bastard if he says he'd have the balls to get anywhere near the fucking line here in Texas

I honestly don't think that miscarriage management should be a gray area. If it is, the legislation and related guidance from TMB needs to be even more explicit. The far greater gray areas that are problematic in the law imo are the areas related to elective abortions in cases where severe fetal complications exist.  

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Posted
8 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

I honestly don't think that miscarriage management should be a gray area.

Yet it is.

100% intentionally.

You're not obtuse, you're just an asshole.  Wait.....you're probably both.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yet it is.

Not really in the particular case we are discussing. You can't simultaneously argue that giving misoprostol is acceptable under the law and that doing D&C is not. They are treated the exact same by the statute. If a physician has met the legal and medical thresholds to administer misoprostol in the course of miscarriage management, they've met (at least the legal) threshold to do a D&C. 

Edited by Anastasis
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Posted
18 hours ago, Anastasis said:

You'd be better off @'ing the hospital administrators. 

The Texas law certainly has flaws. Shit, I don't think it's an issue that is best addressed through the legal system at all.

But there is a common thread in most of these (extremely rare, but egregious) situations. The hospital systems are creating policies and protocols that are wrongheaded.

Hospital administrators aren’t coming up with policies on their own. They are consulting lawyers who have studied the law and they are the ones drafting policies aimed at keeping the hospital on the right side of the law.

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Posted
13 hours ago, royiv said:

Hospital administrators aren’t coming up with policies on their own. They are consulting lawyers who have studied the law and they are the ones drafting policies aimed at keeping the hospital on the right side of the law.

Yup.  By and large medical professionals want to do anything and everything they can to help a patient.  Doctors take an oath towards that end.  For them to refuse potentially life-saving services because to do otherwise exposes them to loss of license and even criminal prosecution is not only sad but terrifying.  Here we are.

But hey, it's all a misunderstanding of the law.

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Posted
15 minutes ago, tigol said:

Fuck you.  No one has time for these fucking arguments.  People are dying.  There's no rational reason for this shitshow.

That said, I don't want your life to hang in the balance while some lawyers figure out how the hospital won't get into legal trouble for helping you survive.  I don't want that for anyone, but that's not something you have to consider.  But, I'm sure the ledge will clarify in time for you to stop bleeding out you obtuse asshole.

You're talking to someone who's entire livelihood is standing between patients and doctors and charging a handling fee to let them do medicine. He doesn't give a fuck about health outcomes, just that he gets a piece and can maintain his cognitive dissonance

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Posted

Ana is so disingenuous about any argument related to abortion. Remember, it's the abortions that are "barbarous" and not the innocent women bleeding out due to cruel laws

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Posted

OR, instead of relying on the exceptions provided by statute where the only thing standing between them and a 1st degree felony prosecution is…checks notes…some cops, prosecutors and jurors…they just say fuck it and choose not to take the chance.

Yep, and it’s not much more complicated than that.
Add to that an overzealous AG who likes filing show charges, and it’s a whole lot of fuck that shit.
“Hey doc, perform this medical procedure. And if you make the wrong call - or simply if Ken Paxton wants to grab some headlines, which he ALWAYS does - you’ll get to sit in the dock and wait to find out if you will die in prison.”
Haw far away would you run from that decision? Yep. It’s the only rational move. AND IT IS THAT WAY BY DESIGN. THAT IS THE OUTCOME MAGA WANTS.
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, safe sex said:

Ana is so disingenuous about any argument related to abortion. Remember, it's the abortions that are "barbarous" and not the innocent women bleeding out due to cruel laws

That's just a completely false framing. But tell us more about disingenuity.

~7k abortions among individuals on their 3rd go around in Texas alone 2021. Tell me more about barbarism and a society that embraces it. 

I am sure that the N=3, and the people like me that would like to see that reduced to N=0, are really repulsive to you. 

Edited by Anastasis
Posted
4 minutes ago, Anastasis said:

That's just a completely false framing. But tell us more about disingenuity.

~7k abortions among individuals on their 3rd go around in Texas alone 2021. Tell me more about barbarism and a society that embraces it. 

I am sure that the N=3, and the people like me that would like to see that reduced to N=0, are really repulsive to you. 

You stated abortion is basically a philosophical issue. Which is akin to a religious one. You are a zealot. Fuck off.

Cast your stones, speak for your God, hypocrite. Fuck you.

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Willfully Horn said:

Folks who want to impose their religion on the rest of this country are zealots. Fuck them all. Anti-American and un-Christian. I’ll call them traitors, because, again, fuck them.

I understand that you have issues with recognizing the intrinsic value of human life and basic human rights as they relate. It cross cuts multiple topics.  

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Posted
Just now, Anastasis said:

I understand that you have issues with recognizing the intrinsic value of human life and basic human rights as they relate. It cross cuts multiple topics.  

Of course you do, zealot.

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Posted
That's just a completely false framing. But tell us more about disingenuity.
~7k abortions among individuals on their 3rd go around in Texas alone 2021. Tell me more about barbarism and a society that embraces it. 
I am sure that the N=3, and the people like me that would like to see that reduced to N=0, are really repulsive to you. 

Yes, you are. You support dead people having more bodily autonomy than living women. A woman has to die to have a say over what happens to her body. Abortion doesn’t actually affect you at all. It just feels bad to you and you want it gone. Why the fuck can’t people like you mind your own damn business?
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