Teacher goes Rocko

[riloh05 107]

1 hour ago, DaysOff said:

I'm convinced some of you arguing against higher teacher pay have the poors and fear their salaries may outpace yours someday.

By any standard they're underpaid for a college educated employee with 15+ years of longevity. Like that piece of shit Frank Lorenzo said, "A flight attendant should never make enough money to buy a home". Same applies to teachers I guess.

Wages have stagnated so long in this country you don't even know what your supposed to be paid.

What do you think they should be paid?

[riloh05 107]

41 minutes ago, High Plains Drifter said:

I don't know. I'm not a labor, education, economics person. But the sums I see posted on here and other places is horrifyingly low.

 

based on what since you are a not a labor, education, economics person?

 

How much does a Public School Teacher in Houston, TX make? The median annual Public School Teacher salary in Houston, TX is $56,017, as of April 29, 2018, with a range usually between $48,903-$64,669 not including bonus and benefit information and other factors that impact base pay.

 

the $48,903 divided by 200 teacher work days comes to $244 a day. take that into a private sector employee that works 250-260 days= $63k. where do you go from here?

Edited May 15, 2018 by riloh05

[riloh05 107]

Under Section 21.401 of the Texas Education Code, teacher contracts must be for a minimum of 187 days of service. Under Section 25.081, a school district must provide 180 days of instruction for students.

[DaysOff 7671]

What do you think they should be paid?

More. More for me. More for you. If you don't want yours I'll take it.

[Gene Parmesan 3951]

You are too hung up on the days.  They don't translate 1 to 1 like you are arguing.  A teacher can not simply get a job that pays $244/day during spring/winter/summer breaks.  Spring and winter are shorter breaks so chances of actually finding quality employment are not realistic.  Summer is long enough to pick up an extra job but it's not realistic to assume there would be no downtime and that you would also make $244/day.  It would be next to impossible for a teacher to get a job at $244/day for the days they don't work. 

Yes a teaching salary does have to be discounted because they simply don't work the same # of days, but you can't 1:1 equivalate that to a private sector salary.

[riloh05 107]

4 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

You are too hung up on the days.  They don't translate 1 to 1 like you are arguing.  A teacher can not simply get a job that pays $244/day during spring/winter/summer breaks.  Spring and winter are shorter breaks so chances of actually finding quality employment are not realistic.  Summer is long enough to pick up an extra job but it's not realistic to assume there would be no downtime and that you would also make $244/day.  It would be next to impossible for a teacher to get a job at $244/day for the days they don't work. 

Yes a teaching salary does have to be discounted because they simver, the days are "perk"ply don't work the same # of days, but you can't 1:1 equivalate that to a private sector salary.

understood. however, having a 50+ day less commitment to the employer has to be a perk that is accounted for. lots of folks take different positions for different reasons work/life balance being one of them.

the other point regarding a private sector employee working 250 plus days and earning the equivalent to 60k/yr salary is that those jobs arent readily available across the country. so what is the number teachers are asking for? how can it be supported? it keeps being stated too low, need more- but there is no support to bring the bottom number up besides under paid, and i think they are slotted pretty accurately given the data, the benefits, retirement, and 50+ day less work commitment.

[Larry T. Spider 1740]

I have a number that would have retained me but people will twist it into me asking for that number...which I’m not. I don’t even think most teachers should make that, it’s simply how much I want to make in a job. 

 

[riloh05 107]

3 minutes ago, Larry T. Spider said:

I have a number that would have retained me but people will twist it into me asking for that number...which I’m not. I don’t even think most teachers should make that, it’s simply how much I want to make in a job. 

 

I think it is interesting what the number is. for me, if it was an 80k salary I may have hung around. knowing what I know now and my current earning potential there is not a dollar amount that could bring me back to education.

[KYHorn 16691]

On 5/14/2018 at 12:54 PM, chainsaw said:

Dated teachers so this hits close to home.  95% of the time, it's shitty parents that are the problem.  Either the kid had no business being born in the first place or the parents can't even be bothered to do the bare minimum to ensure that the kids care about education, in both cases the teacher's hands are tied.  Scores will inevitably suck.  If a kid is going to be dumb, there's not a teach on earth who can fix that, and even if those teachers existed they sure as fuck won't put in the effort in exchange for the salaries that are paid especially considering all of the red tape and extra bullshit that comes with the job (all without compensation).

 

On 5/14/2018 at 1:49 PM, irishtexan said:

Y'all do realize teachers don't get a full three months off, right? I think my wife gets 9 weeks this summer. And you can't say it's a $70k/year job when there aren't opportunities to take a job for two months at your current pay. My wife will be doing summer school and will likely pick up an odd job here and there, but it won't bring her up to $70k. 

My wife is in year 5 as a teacher and makes less than $48.5 in Austin. That being said, I don't think she's underpaid considering where she is in her career. The problem as Larry previously pointed out, is that she will do this for 15 years and still be under $60k. I think the thing that most teachers find most frustrating is how laughably under-funded the schools themselves are. They have to buy a ton of their own supplies. They're impossibly overworked. For instance, my wife is a special ed teacher and she had a caseload of students whose state-mandated individualized time with the special ed teacher exceeded the number of hours in the school day.  It was physically impossible for her to do her job as was mandated by the State. It's little shit like that which causes teachers to quit the profession. She also spends typically one to two hours per night grading papers, putting together IEP reports, etc. There's a bunch of bullshit red tape that comes with the job, and packing classrooms full of 30 kids means that the additional bullshit administrative work increases exponentially. 

I think the solution is fairly simple. Pay the teachers a little better. Don't make them buy their own supplies. Hire more teachers and cut down on class sizes. We, the taxpayers, are their employers. We should provide them with the resources they need to do their job. But that would mean our politicians would have to raise taxes and we know how that goes over in the state of Texas. 

 

You both make important points. My wife (also a teacher in year 5- in KY), makes a reasonable salary, but as you both note, it's not necessarily the income that is the biggest issue. She is an incredible teacher (I assure you I'm not being biased), but the past year I've seen her get drained of 85% of her passion for teaching all because of a handful of incredibly obstinate students and difficult/incompetent/neglectful parents. This, coupled with incredibly stressful testing season, and red tape and regulations that require her to handle these students in certain ways (IEPs, frequent pointless meetings with terrible parents, other specific behavioral/disciplinary rules) has caused her to be a decidedly worse teacher. She cares less about her students and has cut corners in her teaching and grading because she simply doesn't have the emotional and physical energy to do so after a day focused on trying to teach one bit of information in between disciplining (ish) students who should almost certainly be in some kind of specialized classroom or institution even. Solving these kinds of issues would go an incredibly long way in retaining and attracting teachers and inspiring current teachers.

[tchookem 3892]

there are 250-260'ish working days in the private sector if I remember correctly.

I'm not trying to argue that teachers don't have more time off than other professions, but it always surprises me when I'm on my Christmas break and my private sector relatives have just as many days off as me.

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[tchookem 3892]

Are we counting teacher retirement pension as compensation?  I don’t have one of those. 

By the time Dan Patrick is done, I may not either. But you'll always have a 401k.

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[fattyflattie 4631]

32 minutes ago, tchookem said:

I'm not trying to argue that teachers don't have more time off than other professions, but it always surprises me when I'm on my Christmas break and my private sector relatives have just as many days off as me.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

There was a thread on the scat site, more geared to burned out employment. But there were many of us that probably average 5 days off a year. I'd have to dig up my exact numbers somewhere but I think since '08, I had taken something in the realm of 45 vacation days (almost all of it after each of my kids were born).  There's something to be said for time off to regroup.  Probably on average 60 hrs a week.  I'm going to be looking for something else soon, but it'll either have to pay significantly more or have significantly more time off, either way. 

And I think y'all should be paid more.  I don't know the right #, but it should be more.

I am interested in the poster above that mentioned his wife having to purchase supplies. I've always heard this, but it's just so hard to believe.  I know I sent the oldest with a pile of shit at the beginning of the year, and get some kind of donation email every third week or so.  How the fuck do these kids go thru so much supplies?  

 

[tchookem 3892]

There was a thread on the scat site, more geared to burned out employment. But there were many of us that probably average 5 days off a year. I'd have to dig up my exact numbers somewhere but I think since '08, I had taken something in the realm of 45 vacation days (almost all of it after each of my kids were born).  There's something to be said for time off to regroup.  Probably on average 60 hrs a week.  I'm going to be looking for something else soon, but it'll either have to pay significantly more or have significantly more time off, either way. 
And I think y'all should be paid more.  I don't know the right #, but it should be more.
I am interested in the poster above that mentioned his wife having to purchase supplies. I've always heard this, but it's just so hard to believe.  I know I sent the oldest with a pile of shit at the beginning of the year, and get some kind of donation email every third week or so.  How the fuck do these kids go thru so much supplies?  
 

It's not always spent on glue sticks and magic markers. Think lesson plans/ activities via websites (teacherspayteachers is one).

I've paid to upgrade to have more access on a website I've found useful in my class. That cost me $35 for a year subscription. $35 isn't too much if it's only 1 website, but if we're talking about 4-5, it starts to add up.

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[KYHorn 16691]

23 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

There was a thread on the scat site, more geared to burned out employment. But there were many of us that probably average 5 days off a year. I'd have to dig up my exact numbers somewhere but I think since '08, I had taken something in the realm of 45 vacation days (almost all of it after each of my kids were born).  There's something to be said for time off to regroup.  Probably on average 60 hrs a week.  I'm going to be looking for something else soon, but it'll either have to pay significantly more or have significantly more time off, either way. 

And I think y'all should be paid more.  I don't know the right #, but it should be more.

I am interested in the poster above that mentioned his wife having to purchase supplies. I've always heard this, but it's just so hard to believe.  I know I sent the oldest with a pile of shit at the beginning of the year, and get some kind of donation email every third week or so.  How the fuck do these kids go thru so much supplies?  

 

Poorer students bring absolutely nothing and she must supply them with everything if they're not going to just sit there doing nothing all year. My wife (not the poster you referenced) is a science teacher and in order to do her job well she needs supplies for at least 1 lab a week X 7 classes X 35+ weeks = a lot of cash. Even non lab activities require things like colored pencils which are damn expensive when a even just a few students need them each class (and sometimes they aren't all returned or treated well, etc)

[Nice Guy Eddie 13272]

10 hours ago, Larry T. Spider said:

It’s pointless to argue with somebody that doesn’t have any understanding of the two buckets financing system in Texas. If a district spent building money on teachers people would  be fired or go to jail or both. It’s stupid but 30 seconds of reading will help people understand why districts are making the choices they are. 

You’re still whining a day later?   None of it really matters.  Spend on building or salaries. Capital or operaitng Budgets.  And the end of the day, it’s good money being thrown at bad.   

[fattyflattie 4631]

Tchorn/KY, I'm not arguing, just curious. I'm talking Kindergarden, I'm sure it gets worse as it goes. I was really taken back by all the drives and donations. No bullshit I bet we've done 15 this school year (our first).  Just eye opening.  Especially after striking a 5-7k check for school taxes every year. I guess I can't bitch, her teachers have been fantastic and she's learning tons. 

[skipperj 377]

This thread is amusing.

[tchookem 3892]

Didn't take it as arguing. I know what you mean about donations/fund raisers though, it's insane. Those are usually done to pay for the "fun" stuff (field day, field trips) they rarely end up in the classroom (in my experience)..

Tchorn/KY, I'm not arguing, just curious. I'm talking Kindergarden, I'm sure it gets worse as it goes. I was really taken back by all the drives and donations. No bullshit I bet we've done 15 this school year (our first).  Just eye opening.  Especially after striking a 5-7k check for school taxes every year. I guess I can't bitch, her teachers have been fantastic and she's learning tons. 

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[fattyflattie 4631]

On 5/14/2018 at 1:20 PM, riloh05 said:

 I think teachers dont understand the private sector and $70k salary jobs arent being handed out as easily as they may think, and that could be a part of the problem.

I know this is easily obtainable info that I'm too lazy to look up right now, but I bet you'd be surprised how some of the kids coming out of school are getting paid. Obviously industry specific but 70k was obtainable immediately coming out of school in offshore construction in '08. A friend was recently telling me (bitching) about his little brother coming out of A&M with ME degree (I know STEM & good degree) but he hired on first job at 118 thousand US dollars. For a 0 experience kid fresh out of the classroom. All 3 of us talking are/were OG and it took us at least 5 years in to get there; no way that kid is worth it, especially in this O&G market. Anecdotal and all that, but even the brain dead PO girls around our office are making more than teachers. There's something wrong with that. 

Good luck to you teachers on the board, I try and take the load off by working with (teaching) my heathens at home every night. 

[Pato del Muerto 51914]

I’m an analytical chemist with over 10 years experience and I just got over 70 last year. 

I could probably be higher if I took a job in the northeast, but that’s a personal choice I’ve made. Plus cost of living would likely make it a wash. 

[Gene Parmesan 3951]

My wife is an elementary school nurse.  It's her first year and she makes somewhere around 42-44k.  Not sure the exact dollar.  She could make a lot more at a hospital, but she was burnt out on bedside nursing, so the money isn't the issue.  Plus with summers off we don't have to put the 3 kids in daycare over the summer which is substantial savings.  She's got her horror stories with parents and kids.  Apparently some are rarely bathed and the principal started a policy of giving them changes of clothes in the nurses station.  My wife asked what to do with the dirty clothes and he didn't really have a plan.  She told me thinking he was going to ask her to bring them home and wash them daily or however often.  I told her no you aren't doing that.  He probably got some poor teacher to do it.

[KYHorn 16691]

2 minutes ago, Gene Parmesan said:

My wife is an elementary school nurse.  It's her first year and she makes somewhere around 42-44k.  Not sure the exact dollar.  She could make a lot more at a hospital, but she was burnt out on bedside nursing, so the money isn't the issue.  Plus with summers off we don't have to put the 3 kids in daycare over the summer which is substantial savings.  She's got her horror stories with parents and kids.  Apparently some are rarely bathed and the principal started a policy of giving them changes of clothes in the nurses station.  My wife asked what to do with the dirty clothes and he didn't really have a plan.  She told me thinking he was going to ask her to bring them home and wash them daily or however often.  I told her no you aren't doing that.  He probably got some poor teacher to do it.

Yeah man, nursing is no joke. I can definitely see the appeal for taking a pay cut but gaining a consistent schedule. Seems like a good option for her.

[TornACL 7652]

On ‎5‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 7:50 PM, Jack Burton said:

If there's one thing I hate more than first responders and veterans, it's whiny ass teachers.

It cracks me up that someone was stupid / gullible enough to negrep this post.

[Apep 644]

My wife is a sixth grade science teacher in her sixteenth year. After taking inflation into account, she makes less now than she did as a first year teacher. Because she is so far into her career and is in her fifth year at her current school, she has been able to cut back on classroom expenses quite a bit. She probably spends only $500-750 per year. Part of this is that she has always taught at Title 1 (poor) schools and many students have no supplies. Even if they qualify for free supplies (from the school district or local churches or whatever) at the beginning of the year, the kids either lose them or never got them in the first place. The district (Fort Worth), on the other hand, is fairly decent about providing lab equipment and kits, so she only has to buy science supplies (chemicals) once or twice a year. She has to purchase consumable lab materials about once a month or so. (Think sugar that will be burned into carbon.) Everything that you see on her walls except the Promethean board, from charts to calendars, came from out of pocket. Even her desk chair came from out of our pocket. But she doesn't buy pens or pencils for her kids. She has classroom sets of scissors, glue sticks, map pencils, and journals (notebooks), only the last of which requires replenishing each year. Unlike some of y'all's kids' schools, there are no supply drives. Most of the parents do not or cannot provide for their own kids, let alone someone else's.

[KYHorn 16691]

53 minutes ago, Apep said:

My wife is a sixth grade science teacher in her sixteenth year. After taking inflation into account, she makes less now than she did as a first year teacher. Because she is so far into her career and is in her fifth year at her current school, she has been able to cut back on classroom expenses quite a bit. She probably spends only $500-750 per year. Part of this is that she has always taught at Title 1 (poor) schools and many students have no supplies. Even if they qualify for free supplies (from the school district or local churches or whatever) at the beginning of the year, the kids either lose them or never got them in the first place. The district (Fort Worth), on the other hand, is fairly decent about providing lab equipment and kits, so she only has to buy science supplies (chemicals) once or twice a year. She has to purchase consumable lab materials about once a month or so. (Think sugar that will be burned into carbon.) Everything that you see on her walls except the Promethean board, from charts to calendars, came from out of pocket. Even her desk chair came from out of our pocket. But she doesn't buy pens or pencils for her kids. She has classroom sets of scissors, glue sticks, map pencils, and journals (notebooks), only the last of which requires replenishing each year. Unlike some of y'all's kids' schools, there are no supply drives. Most of the parents do not or cannot provide for their own kids, let alone someone else's.

This sounds extremely similar to my wife's setup. The district provides maybe $100 for lab supplies. There's also the $200 (not certain on the amount) tax credit for teachers, which is always nice. Luckily the teacher who retired from the position my wife took, left all of her wall stuff. She did have to add to it and replace some though. I'm curious how she avoids getting pens and pencils for them? My wife always complains that if she didn't give them a pencil/pen, they would just sit there and get behind. 

[Gene Parmesan 3951]

So is it part of the job description to provide for the kids, or is it just something you do because you want the kid to learn?  Would a teacher be fired if they didn't go buy everything the parents failed to do?

[Apep 644]

I asked my wife about it. No, it is not in the job description. If they don't buy supplies, they won't be disciplined. If a kid doesn't have supplies, they might have to go to the office to get supplies. There might be supplies in the office. She doesn't know what would happen if she didn't buy lab supplies. Her schools have never given her money for that. She thinks the kids wouldn't be able to do any labs. Turns out I was wrong about the district providing lab kits. It was just a brand new school that had those. At her current school, there are some permanent lab supplies (like microscopes or triple balances), but most things are purchased by the teachers. Since this is sixth grade science, nothing is very complex. It's not like she is buying them fetal pigs and hydrochloric acid.

 

[RPM 26074]

33 minutes ago, Apep said:

fetal pigs and hydrochloric acid

Next band name.

[Bill Brasky 1414]

21 hours ago, skipperj said:

This thread is amusing.

No shit. 

[KYHorn 16691]

18 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

So is it part of the job description to provide for the kids, or is it just something you do because you want the kid to learn?  Would a teacher be fired if they didn't go buy everything the parents failed to do?

 

16 hours ago, Apep said:

I asked my wife about it. No, it is not in the job description. If they don't buy supplies, they won't be disciplined. If a kid doesn't have supplies, they might have to go to the office to get supplies. There might be supplies in the office. She doesn't know what would happen if she didn't buy lab supplies. Her schools have never given her money for that. She thinks the kids wouldn't be able to do any labs. Turns out I was wrong about the district providing lab kits. It was just a brand new school that had those. At her current school, there are some permanent lab supplies (like microscopes or triple balances), but most things are purchased by the teachers. Since this is sixth grade science, nothing is very complex. It's not like she is buying them fetal pigs and hydrochloric acid.

 

Same. She wouldn't be doing her job well if she didn't purchase lab supplies, but I suppose it's not a requirement. At the same time, I don't know that they would retain her if she wasn't able to manage to do her job well without doing labs. 

[Nolacycling 893]

For everyone that is calculating what a teacher makes if they worked year-round, would you pay teachers to work year-round? 

[hayden_horn 11311]

On 5/15/2018 at 8:12 PM, tchookem said:

I'm not trying to argue that teachers don't have more time off than other professions, but it always surprises me when I'm on my Christmas break and my private sector relatives have just as many days off as me.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

let's take a look at firefighter salaries in comparison here. they work one-third of the time AT MOST. it's a tough job, but i don't see any public pushback to their unions pushing for more benefits or salary. but teachers ask for a little consideration and out comes the condescension. i wonder why that is?

[dingleberryswitzer 2724]

20 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

So is it part of the job description to provide for the kids, or is it just something you do because you want the kid to learn?  Would a teacher be fired if they didn't go buy everything the parents failed to do?

If you want something you have to ask, then someone has to put in a purchase order.  It could take weeks to get a new box of pencils. Sometimes it's just easier to go to walmart.

Edited May 17, 2018 by dingleberryswitzer

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4956]

2 hours ago, hayden_horn said:

let's take a look at firefighter salaries in comparison here. they work one-third of the time AT MOST. it's a tough job, but i don't see any public pushback to their unions pushing for more benefits or salary. but teachers ask for a little consideration and out comes the condescension. i wonder why that is?

They are not exempt, so kinda a different story. You sorta have to pay them for every hour they are on the clock.

[Gene Parmesan 3951]

2 hours ago, dingleberryswitzer said:

If you want something you have to ask, then someone has to put in a purchase order.  It could take weeks to get a new box of pencils. Sometimes it's just easier to go to walmart.

I would buy a box of pencils, but there is no way I would go out and buy what's being described in this thread.  But I already know I would likely make a horrible teacher.

[hayden_horn 11311]

16 minutes ago, NotActuallyALonghorn said:

They are not exempt, so kinda a different story. You sorta have to pay them for every hour they are on the clock.

here is the AFD pay scale:

Quote

Pay Scale: Download the 2017-2018 pay scale

• FF Cadet (1-6 months) $2,851/month
• Probationary FF (7-12 months) $4,339/month
• After 12 months $56,588/year
• After two years $61,402/year
• After three years $67,021/year

it would take an AISD teacher 37 years to get to what a firefighter gets in 3 years on the job.

and firefighters also get a tremendous amount of overtime pay, which teachers do not receive. and they work 10 days out of every month. 

now, i realize the service they perform as first responders and the danger inherent in their jobs (and the shit they have to see), but the disparity between the two situations is striking to me, as both are civil servants.

[NotActuallyALonghorn 4956]

I would imagine if we made teachers nonexempt we would see much higher pay for them as well. Not firefighter level, but much higher than what they get now.

[Pato del Muerto 51914]

[Lhorn 4862]

10 hours ago, Nolacycling said:

For everyone that is calculating what a teacher makes if they worked year-round, would you pay teachers to work year-round? 

Sure if they taught year round.  That would only be fair. 

[Spankytoes 1787]

The only people more entitled than teachers are military wives and Stay At Home Moms.

[Modessit 5582]

I'm sure that substitute teacher killed today felt very entitled, as did all the regular teachers who did their best to keep other kids safe.

 

Teachers don't "get 3 months off". They are unemployed for 2.5 months. Meaning they don't get paid. They can take the option to spread their pay out over 12 months in order to make it a little easier to pay bills on a monthly budget. How many of you would love 2 months off with no pay? What kind of crappy job would you have to get to made ends meet during those 2 months?

 

Guess how much more a Master's degree gets you at AISD? $1000 more PER YEAR! And a doctorate? Another $1000 more PER YEAR! There's no reason to get advanced degrees unless you want to be a principal or superintendent.

 

Most of us pay more per month for a daycare to watch four 5-year-olds than we do for a kindergarten teacher to teach 25 6-year-olds.

 

My wife loves being a teacher. She teaches pre-k special ed. She gets kids from age 3 to age 6 with all kinds of disabilities. She doesn't complain about the pay - but if I took her net pay (after taxes, benefits, etc) and divided it by the number of hours she spends every week doing something related to her job, she'd be making about $7/hr net. My wife gets an extra $1000/yr for being special ed. This is a job that NEEDS to be done. SOMEBODY needs to do it. MOST people couldn't handle it for very long at a quality level. Don't tell me it should pay so little just because "they knew what they were getting into." This isn't ditch-digging or fast-food. These are our children and we're expecting results while telling the ones responsible that we don't really value their commitment.

 

 

[riloh05 107]

On 5/18/2018 at 10:09 PM, Modessit said:

I'm sure that substitute teacher killed today felt very entitled, as did all the regular teachers who did their best to keep other kids safe.

 

Teachers don't "get 3 months off". They are unemployed for 2.5 months. Meaning they don't get paid. They can take the option to spread their pay out over 12 months in order to make it a little easier to pay bills on a monthly budget. How many of you would love 2 months off with no pay? What kind of crappy job would you have to get to made ends meet during those 2 months?

 

Guess how much more a Master's degree gets you at AISD? $1000 more PER YEAR! And a doctorate? Another $1000 more PER YEAR! There's no reason to get advanced degrees unless you want to be a principal or superintendent.

 

Most of us pay more per month for a daycare to watch four 5-year-olds than we do for a kindergarten teacher to teach 25 6-year-olds.

 

My wife loves being a teacher. She teaches pre-k special ed. She gets kids from age 3 to age 6 with all kinds of disabilities. She doesn't complain about the pay - but if I took her net pay (after taxes, benefits, etc) and divided it by the number of hours she spends every week doing something related to her job, she'd be making about $7/hr net. My wife gets an extra $1000/yr for being special ed. This is a job that NEEDS to be done. SOMEBODY needs to do it. MOST people couldn't handle it for very long at a quality level. Don't tell me it should pay so little just because "they knew what they were getting into." This isn't ditch-digging or fast-food. These are our children and we're expecting results while telling the ones responsible that we don't really value their commitment.

 

 

this is going to come across as insensitive, but these are choices that have been made by you and your wife. why should that burden fall at the feet of tax payers for an increased salary that is by some data pretty accurate. what does the cost of daycare have anything to do with teaching? let me ask this question...when your wife committed to doing her student teaching did she not know how much a pre-k special ed teacher made? what was her expectation?

a payroll clerk is paid less than your wife, this is a job that must be done in order to pay employees. it is a job that NEEDS to be done. SOMEBODY needs to do it. MOST people couldnt handle it for very long at a quality level.

 

[irishtexan 11413]

18 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

this is going to come across as insensitive, but these are choices that have been made by you and your wife. why should that burden fall at the feet of tax payers for an increased salary that is by some data pretty accurate. what does the cost of daycare have anything to do with teaching? let me ask this question...when your wife committed to doing her student teaching did she not know how much a pre-k special ed teacher made? what was her expectation?

a payroll clerk is paid less than your wife, this is a job that must be done in order to pay employees. it is a job that NEEDS to be done. SOMEBODY needs to do it. MOST people couldnt handle it for very long at a quality level.

 

Because they're educating our children and they deserve to be paid more because it's a job that is significantly more important than is typically given credit. The shit pay is a contributing factor to the perception that a large percentage of teachers are lazy, entitled and bad at their jobs. Which conveniently is often the reason people who weild those criticisms use to justify paying teachers so little. 

His response included the qualifier that his wife doesn't complain about the pay. What he's suggesting is that she should be paid more. Which is true.

Edited May 21, 2018 by irishtexan

[riloh05 107]

10 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

Because they're educating our children and they deserve to be paid more because it's a job that is significantly more important than is typically given credit. The shit pay is a contributing factor to the perception that a large percentage of teachers are lazy, entitled and bad at their jobs. Which conveniently is often the reason people who weild those criticisms use to justify paying teachers so little. 

His response included the qualifier that his wife doesn't complain about the pay. What he's suggesting is that she should be paid more. Which is true.

how much more. what number is it. there are a lot of important jobs. should elementary teachers be paid more than HS? are classes more important than others? should those teachers be paid more? he qualified her, but he made his complaint his own.

tl/dr...what are the specific numbers and why?

[irishtexan 11413]

how much more. what number is it. there are a lot of important jobs. should elementary teachers be paid more than HS? are classes more important than others? should those teachers be paid more? he qualified her, but he made his complaint his own. tl/dr...what are the specific numbers and why?

 

I think someone who has been teaching for ten years should expect to make $65k per year. Do you think that’s unreasonable? I think the entry level salary is fine or even a little high. As has been stated multiple times, it is the limits on pay increases that make the job so undesirable

 

[Capn81 372]

I think someone who has been teaching should expect to make $65k per year after a decade of work. Do you think that’s unreasonable?

I have very little skin in the game, but I think that is reasonable. My only caveat is that they are held to performance based standards. Tenure shouldn’t save someone in any situation. Too often I hear tenure brought up in my group of friends (four are teachers K, 3rd, 8th and HS level). It is the biggest thing that we disagree on.

[irishtexan 11413]

I have very little skin in the game, but I think that is reasonable. My only caveat is that they are held to performance based standards. Tenure shouldn’t save someone in any situation. Too often I hear tenure brought up in my group of friends (four are teachers K, 3rd, 8th and HS level). It is the biggest thing that we disagree on.

Public school teachers don’t get tenure. But it is very difficult to fire someone. I think most people would be open to some sort of performance standard evaluation. The tricky part is how you factor in demographic differences among schools/districts.

[Capn81 372]

Public school teachers don’t get tenure. But it is very difficult to fire someone. I think most people would be open to some sort of performance standard evaluation. The tricky part is how you factor in demographic differences among schools/districts.

Yeah, that is the tough part. I know that some years have better students than others, so that would be a challenge. I live in Illinois, so we might also have some apples-oranges stuff within the conversation. The town I grew up is only 3000 people, but the taxes are high. Every time a property tax increase is on the ballot, it gets approved quickly. This also is why a few neighboring towns have had to fold their school and merge with our town.

[riloh05 107]

16 minutes ago, irishtexan said:

I think someone who has been teaching for ten years should expect to make $65k per year. Do you think that’s unreasonable? I think the entry level salary is fine or even a little high. As has been stated multiple times, it is the limits on pay increases that make the job so undesirable

 

That is where they are slotted currently per year, if not more.

[hayden_horn 11311]

8 minutes ago, riloh05 said:

That is where they are slotted currently per year, if not more.

This is demonstrably false.