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West Point Football players OD on Fentanyl-laced cocaine on SB in Florida


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1 hour ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My mom was a heroin addict. Long story, but she got hooked off her first hit -- my godfather's brother was a GI in Nam and he sent it back to Houston. Mama had a pre-existing propensity for opiate addiction (she'd been horribly burned as a child and hooked up to a morphine drip for a month). Maybe she could have got through the '60s without "relapsing" like that or maybe not, but in some ways she was a casualty of the war. And to a more limited degree, myself and my three half-siblings as well. She abandoned all of us.

Or maybe you wouldn't, because you were a college kid.

I'm not buying it. It's bad business. There's a never ending supply of addicts, so why kill so many out of the gate? And I have to believe that fent has a blunting effect on coke. People who want coke want coke, not a heroin like high. They want to grind their teeth and lick their lips and hoot and holler, not nod out drooling. I don't believe the cost-benefit analysis  holds up -- you are delivering a different product than what's expected and killing a significant number of customers hoping to create more addicts?

How does that make any sense regarding Spring Break drug dealers? Why would they care if these cadets became addicts or not -- they are not going to be buying any more drugs from that dealer. Or is that dealer just "paying it forward" -- creating fent junkies for a faraway chapter of the International Brotherhood of Scumbags. This logic reminds me of some rando I got in an argument with who was swearing up and down that the cartels and ISIS were working together to destroy America. ISIS maybe, but the last thing the cartels want is the downfall of America. This dude was telling me the cartels were guiding ISIS terrorists to the border and helping them acquire bombs and heavy weaponry. Lol. I could say the cartels driving ISIS off into the Mexican desert assuring them that was the way it was going to happen, before stopping the truck, machine gunning them all, and then mailing their severed heads to the FBI as perverse tokens of good faith. "See? We are all on the same team here."

I think sometimes people allow notions of morality and evil to take precedence over what drug dealing really is, especially at the hand-to-hand level. Yes, the cartels routinely commit atrocities against each other, but at the bottom end of the business, it's simply about maximizing profit. 

I mean, I guess I could see them trying out this theory. After all, the other alternative is they are killing people through sloppiness, so it's not like this business is running optimally in either case. But I tend toward idiocy and carelessness rather than an attempt at diabolical genius.

You think an organization that murders women and children care about American's OD'ing?  You think same organization cares about how addictive Americans are to drugs? If one drug dealer stops selling because someone he sold to dies there is always more to replace said drug dealer.

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37 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You think an organization that murders women and children care about American's OD'ing?  You think same organization cares about how addictive Americans are to drugs? If one drug dealer stops selling because someone he sold to dies there is always more to replace said drug dealer.

They don't care about killing people, but the difference is, they murder women and children in Mexico to protect their organizations, so they can make  money. They want to create addicts, not dead bodies, again because they care about money. Say you are the captain of a street level drug crew and your flunkies mix up a batch of hot shots and kill five or six of your best customers. You would not be happy about that.  

As to the replaceability of dealers, I dunno, you just brough that up out of the blue. 

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25 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

They don't care about killing people, but the difference is, they murder women and children in Mexico to protect their organizations, so they can make  money. They want to create addicts, not dead bodies, again because they care about money. Say you are the captain of a street level drug crew and your flunkies mix up a batch of hot shots and kill five or six of your best customers. You would not be happy about that.  

As to the replaceability of dealers, I dunno, you just brough that up out of the blue. 

by using fentanyl their profit margins are growing thus creating more money regardless. There will always be drug addicts in their market to buy. For every dead addict or person who dies from the drug there are 10 more to replace them. 

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The lethality of Fent is an absolute game changer when it comes to illegal drugs, IMO. If you have kids there is a worry that a previously “low risk” one time bad decision of doing coke at a party could now be a high risk death. It’s scary and as others have said it’s a different world than the drugs that were coming in the 80’s. This story is sad all around, but even worse for the 2 kids who OD trying to help their buddies.

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3 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

I'm not buying it. It's bad business. There's a never ending supply of addicts, so why kill so many out of the gate? And I have to believe that fent has a blunting effect on coke. People who want coke want coke, not a heroin like high. They want to grind their teeth and lick their lips and hoot and holler, not nod out drooling. I don't believe the cost-benefit analysis holds up -- you are delivering a different product than what's expected and killing a significant number of customers hoping to create more addicts?

How does that make any sense regarding Spring Break drug dealers? Why would they care if these cadets became addicts or not -- they are not going to be buying any more drugs from that dealer. Or is that dealer just "paying it forward" -- creating fent junkies for a faraway chapter of the International Brotherhood of Scumbags. This logic reminds me of some rando I got in an argument with who was swearing up and down that the cartels and ISIS were working together to destroy America. ISIS maybe, but the last thing the cartels want is the downfall of America. This dude was telling me the cartels were guiding ISIS terrorists to the border and helping them acquire bombs and heavy weaponry. Lol. I could say the cartels driving ISIS off into the Mexican desert assuring them that was the way it was going to happen, before stopping the truck, machine gunning them all, and then mailing their severed heads to the FBI as perverse tokens of good faith. "See? We are all on the same team here."

I think sometimes people allow notions of morality and evil to take precedence over what drug dealing really is, especially at the hand-to-hand level. Yes, the cartels routinely commit atrocities against each other, but at the bottom end of the business, it's simply about maximizing profit. 

I mean, I guess I could see them trying out this theory. After all, the other alternative is they are killing people through sloppiness, so it's not like this business is running optimally in either case. But I tend toward idiocy and carelessness rather than an attempt at diabolical genius.

You just went on a diatribe to refute me when basically nothing you said had anything to do with what I originally posted. I'm not a conspiracy theorist on this one. I offered the name of a world-renowned author and journalist who has written multiple best-sellers on this exact topic, and who lived in Mexico for more than 10 years covering the industry. If you don't want to learn, then cool.

Fentanyl is put into other drugs as a filler and as a hook. Plain and simple. Most local-level, small-time drug dealers aren't differentiating who they give what to, and others may not even know which bag is laced and which isn't. Also, I was not saying this specific case was intentional to get college kids hooked. However, the industry is much bigger than some local dealers and this is definitely a wholesale change. Fentanyl isn't winding up in almost all other illegal street drugs because of an accident or contamination. It's intentional in the majority of the cases. 

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On 3/13/2022 at 8:53 PM, Texzilla58 said:

A lot of fentanyl comes in direct from China into Long Beach. The rest comes through Mexico. You can buy it, bath salts, Oxys, whatever on Chinese cross border websites similar to Alibaba if you trust that sort of thing…comes in the mail. China see it as a weapon; it’s one reason they aligned with the Taliban the second we left.

At some point we have to control the market. I would have brought up some Talibans from Guantanamo and sent to Nebraska. They were growing opium in rocks. What could they grow in that black soil. If those Aggies can invent a 1015 onion and make a habanero as hot as a carrot, they could grow some hellacious opium. Flood the market internationally with cheap shit and take out the cartels and hook the Chinese on it.

Would never happen as the cartels and banks that launder their money own our politicians.

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My cousin is a fire chief in the Midwest...  He's said for years that the deaths actually drive increased demand to try that dealer's products.

They get a death... Then a bunch of ODs calls right behind it... Usually in the same area... It's not unusual to get an OD call from the same house 2x in 24 hours.

If they're hooked, they're hooked. They're not trying to avoid the most powerful stuff. They seek it...

The coke dudes just wanted to party... The dealers wanted to hook a crowd.

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The fentanyl is being added in the United States by natural-born citizens of America.  Mainly, White people.  So obviously this all never happened.  Carry on.

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These poor saps from West Point are just reflections of all the issues we face as a country regarding drugs. The monies involved in every facet of it have fucked up our society; I don’t know anyone whose family hasn’t been affected in some manner by addiction, regardless of street drug, pharmaceutical, or alcohol.

If you’re a politician I believe you’re on the cartel money teat, the more anti drug the more suspicion I have. Conversely all of Washington is owned by the Big Pharma’s Citizens United enabled massive money udder. Look at the strange bedfellows opposing cannabis legalization…drug interdiction, trial lawyers, treatment farms, list is endless of industries built on maintaining the drug money train. I mean why, after decades of pols who smoked weed at some point, is it still a fucking Schedule I narcotic? Legalization by states is meaningless unless retailers and growers can bank, borrow, and transport.

Anyway we have built a huge basket of snakes which unfortunately leaves a growing pile of dead bodies, wrecked families, and ridiculous expenditures of treasure to perpetuate more of all of it.

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56 minutes ago, MuellerHorn said:

You just went on a diatribe to refute me when basically nothing you said had anything to do with what I originally posted. I'm not a conspiracy theorist on this one. I offered the name of a world-renowned author and journalist who has written multiple best-sellers on this exact topic, and who lived in Mexico for more than 10 years covering the industry. If you don't want to learn, then cool.

Fentanyl is put into other drugs as a filler and as a hook. Plain and simple. Most local-level, small-time drug dealers aren't differentiating who they give what to, and others may not even know which bag is laced and which isn't. Also, I was not saying this specific case was intentional to get college kids hooked. However, the industry is much bigger than some local dealers and this is definitely a wholesale change. Fentanyl isn't winding up in almost all other illegal street drugs because of an accident or contamination. It's intentional in the majority of the cases. 

I totally agree it's used as a filler in heroin and other opiates and it has developed plenty of fans who seek it on its own in spite of the risks....Heroin and fentanyl are death wish drugs, psychologically, in a way coke is not. 

I guess maybe a fent / coke mix would go down like a speedball, which is supposed to be an amazing high, but unless you want to kill your customers, you'd better tell them that's what they are getting.

Getting all anecdotal: in Houston about 10 or 15 years ago there was a little gang of junior Bandidos called Todo Moto....they putted around Montrose on their Harleys and sold drugs and kicked up to the big boys. They were like a farm club....But they were disbanded because they were such idiots they would mix up bags all the time. Ask for coke and they'd give you meth or the reverse. The Bandidos quickly realized these kids were inept, this was bad business, and Todo Moto is no' mo'

 

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^
Solid take on above two posts.  But you've missed a huge point.  If we have addiction issues on the demand end, and we have big pharma pumping us full of addictive drugs, and we like alcohol made here in the states...and we can make money off financing all of the above with our own banks/lenders...how we can possibly blame it on the border?  

/noCR because obviously substance abuse and drug addition as evidenced by this story are completely apolitical.  Only "other team" uses drugs.

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2 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

They don't care about killing people, but the difference is, they murder women and children in Mexico to protect their organizations, so they can make  money. They want to create addicts, not dead bodies, again because they care about money. Say you are the captain of a street level drug crew and your flunkies mix up a batch of hot shots and kill five or six of your best customers. You would not be happy about that.  

As to the replaceability of dealers, I dunno, you just brough that up out of the blue. 

Watch this ep of American Greed. Salt Lake Instagram bro was ordering bulk fentanyl from China, personally manufacturing his own "Oxycodone" pills in his garage and selling them on the D-web using 5 or 6 flunkies to handle the mail order end of the transaction. Had 1.5 million in cash  in his dresser when they busted him. The feds were able to personally link him to 95 overdose deaths. The guy wanted to be the Jeff Bezos of the illicit pill biz and didn't give two shits about his customers dying. Order comes in, box of homemade shit goes in the mail, on to the next. I'm sure there are countless others running the same style operation. 

 

https://www.cnbc.com/video/2022/01/27/season-15-the-kingpin-next-door-sneak-peek-overdose.html

 

2e59ad88-8557-4167-bc17-7f2934961e7f-lar

 

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21 hours ago, Al_4_ISU said:

This would apply to me as well.

Especially if it were certain friends of mine that are still "in the game" so to speak, and it would be a reasonable inference that they've already imbibed off the stash they were offering up.

 

Nobody wants to be the first penguin in the water.

 

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6 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My mom was a heroin addict. Long story, but she got hooked off her first hit -- my godfather's brother was a GI in Nam and he sent it back to Houston. Mama had a pre-existing propensity for opiate addiction (she'd been horribly burned as a child and hooked up to a morphine drip for a month). Maybe she could have got through the '60s without "relapsing" like that or maybe not, but in some ways she was a casualty of the war. And to a more limited degree, myself and my three half-siblings as well. She abandoned all of us.

Or maybe you wouldn't, because you were a college kid.

I'm not buying it. It's bad business. There's a never ending supply of addicts, so why kill so many out of the gate? And I have to believe that fent has a blunting effect on coke. People who want coke want coke, not a heroin like high. They want to grind their teeth and lick their lips and hoot and holler, not nod out drooling. I don't believe the cost-benefit analysis  holds up -- you are delivering a different product than what's expected and killing a significant number of customers hoping to create more addicts?

How does that make any sense regarding Spring Break drug dealers? Why would they care if these cadets became addicts or not -- they are not going to be buying any more drugs from that dealer. Or is that dealer just "paying it forward" -- creating fent junkies for a faraway chapter of the International Brotherhood of Scumbags. This logic reminds me of some rando I got in an argument with who was swearing up and down that the cartels and ISIS were working together to destroy America. ISIS maybe, but the last thing the cartels want is the downfall of America. This dude was telling me the cartels were guiding ISIS terrorists to the border and helping them acquire bombs and heavy weaponry. Lol. I could say the cartels driving ISIS off into the Mexican desert assuring them that was the way it was going to happen, before stopping the truck, machine gunning them all, and then mailing their severed heads to the FBI as perverse tokens of good faith. "See? We are all on the same team here."

I think sometimes people allow notions of morality and evil to take precedence over what drug dealing really is, especially at the hand-to-hand level. Yes, the cartels routinely commit atrocities against each other, but at the bottom end of the business, it's simply about maximizing profit. 

I mean, I guess I could see them trying out this theory. After all, the other alternative is they are killing people through sloppiness, so it's not like this business is running optimally in either case. But I tend toward idiocy and carelessness rather than an attempt at diabolical genius.

Exactly.  I've wanted to do (and subsequently done) coke many times because I sought something that was stimulating and warded off some of the physical depressant effects of booze.  The goal was to be loosened up (by the booze) enough to lower your inhibitions and have some fun, but not be sloppy and sleepy (that's where the coke came in).

The idea of opiates has never been even a little appealing to me.  My litmus test for mind-altering substances was always "do the people using it look like they're having fun?"  Booze, weed, coke, and hallucinogens generally passed this test.  Opiates never have.

The idea of fentanyl in coke is completely unappealing to most people seeking out coke.

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I don't think it's knowable whether the fentanyl cutting is intentional or various forms of recklessness/negligence on the part of drug dealers.  It's probably some of all three (deliberately adding a hook, not knowing the difference much/saving money, and cross-contamination).

Oddly enough, opiates and alcohol have the same basic addiction mechanism:  they "attack" opioid receptors in the brain that then multiply and "scream" for moar.  Cocaine doesn't have quite the same type of specific mechanism, leading some scientists to say that it isn't addictive in the same way.  Or at least they haven't found the mechanism yet.

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^
Solid take on above two posts.  But you've missed a huge point.  If we have addiction issues on the demand end, and we have big pharma pumping us full of addictive drugs, and we like alcohol made here in the states...and we can make money off financing all of the above with our own banks/lenders...how we can possibly blame it on the border?  
/noCR because obviously substance abuse and drug addition as evidenced by this story are completely apolitical.  Only "other team" uses drugs.

If you misread me, I’m more a proponent of a reverse open border situation in regards to drugs. Flood the global market with the equivalent of Made in America 1015 onions and long grain white rice.

The cartels are a natural overgrowth from the unceasing demand on our side and the inflation in profits stemming from our fucked up drug policies. The beneficiaries of illegal drugs, illegal arms sales, and sex/human trafficking are the same folks who benefit from the “legit” side of those same enterprises: international bankers.
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Sounds like a business diversification opportunity for the local PDs around the nation. We'll test your illegal drugs for you!!!!

This drug user is proof of concept testing the idea.

https://www.knoe.com/2022/03/14/florida-man-calls-911-requests-his-meth-be-tested-authenticity-police-say/

 

SPRING HILL, Fla. (Gray News) – Police in Florida arrested a man after they say he called 911 and requested them to test his meth.

Deputies with the Hernando County Sheriff’s Office were dispatched to a home in Spring Hill, Florida, after a resident called 911 to request that a deputy come and “test the methamphetamine” he had bought.

When deputies arrived, they met with 41-year-old Thomas Eugene Colucci. Police said Colucci told the deputies he had purchased meth from a man he met in a local bar and believed it was actually bath salts after using some of it.

Police said Colucci told them he was an experienced drug user and that he had used meth before and “knew what it should feel like.” He then produced two small baggies, each one containing a white crystal-like substance, and handed them over to the deputy, according to the sheriff’s office.

Police said the substance did not provide the sensation Colucci was expecting, which is why he called 911.

Colucci told the deputies he wanted his meth tested because he did not want other people to purchase “fake” meth from the man who sold it to him, the sheriff’s office said, adding that he wanted deputies to “put the person in trouble” for selling dangerous drugs. Police said he was unable to provide a name or contact info for the man who sold the drugs to him.

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3 hours ago, Snacks said:

My cousin is a fire chief in the Midwest...  He's said for years that the deaths actually drive increased demand to try that dealer's products.

They get a death... Then a bunch of ODs calls right behind it... Usually in the same area... It's not unusual to get an OD call from the same house 2x in 24 hours.

If they're hooked, they're hooked. They're not trying to avoid the most powerful stuff. They seek it...

The coke dudes just wanted to party... The dealers wanted to hook a crowd.

Yep, you nailed it. He's 100% correct. Addicts want the most potent stuff. This is what Sam Quinones and others covering the opioid epidemic describe as well.

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Exactly.  I've wanted to do (and subsequently done) coke many times because I sought something that was stimulating and warded off some of the physical depressant effects of booze.  The goal was to be loosened up (by the booze) enough to lower your inhibitions and have some fun, but not be sloppy and sleepy (that's where the coke came in).

The idea of opiates has never been even a little appealing to me.  My litmus test for mind-altering substances was always "do the people using it look like they're having fun?"  Booze, weed, coke, and hallucinogens generally passed this test.  Opiates never have.

The idea of fentanyl in coke is completely unappealing to most people seeking out coke.

That's not the point. Coke users don't want fentanyl in coke, but the manufacturers of the drugs want more addicts. Thus, they're adding it to everything. A fentanyl addict brings in a lot more $$$ than a coke user.

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56 minutes ago, Texzilla58 said:


If you misread me, I’m more a proponent of a reverse open border situation in regards to drugs. Flood the global market with the equivalent of Made in America 1015 onions and long grain white rice.

About 25 years ago we took my dad out to the restaurant at Volente Beach on Lake Travis. 
He asked the young server if he could get his burger with 1015 onions. 
The server brought the burger on one plate and a pile of sliced regular onions on another. 🤣

 

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2 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

I don't think it's knowable whether the fentanyl cutting is intentional or various forms of recklessness/negligence on the part of drug dealers.  It's probably some of all three (deliberately adding a hook, not knowing the difference much/saving money, and cross-contamination).

Oddly enough, opiates and alcohol have the same basic addiction mechanism:  they "attack" opioid receptors in the brain that then multiply and "scream" for moar.  Cocaine doesn't have quite the same type of specific mechanism, leading some scientists to say that it isn't addictive in the same way.  Or at least they haven't found the mechanism yet.

I know a few folks in recovery who swore going into it they were cocaine addicts, but figured out they were actually alcoholics who abused cocaine for the reasons Al mentioned up thread. Even a guy who had a cocaine induced heart attack came to realize the root of the problem was booze. 

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11 hours ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

My mom was a heroin addict. Long story, but she got hooked off her first hit -- my godfather's brother was a GI in Nam and he sent it back to Houston. Mama had a pre-existing propensity for opiate addiction (she'd been horribly burned as a child and hooked up to a morphine drip for a month). Maybe she could have got through the '60s without "relapsing" like that or maybe not, but in some ways she was a casualty of the war. And to a more limited degree, myself and my three half-siblings as well. She abandoned all of us.

Or maybe you wouldn't, because you were a college kid.

I'm not buying it. It's bad business. There's a never ending supply of addicts, so why kill so many out of the gate? And I have to believe that fent has a blunting effect on coke. People who want coke want coke, not a heroin like high. They want to grind their teeth and lick their lips and hoot and holler, not nod out drooling. I don't believe the cost-benefit analysis  holds up -- you are delivering a different product than what's expected and killing a significant number of customers hoping to create more addicts?

How does that make any sense regarding Spring Break drug dealers? Why would they care if these cadets became addicts or not -- they are not going to be buying any more drugs from that dealer. Or is that dealer just "paying it forward" -- creating fent junkies for a faraway chapter of the International Brotherhood of Scumbags. This logic reminds me of some rando I got in an argument with who was swearing up and down that the cartels and ISIS were working together to destroy America. ISIS maybe, but the last thing the cartels want is the downfall of America. This dude was telling me the cartels were guiding ISIS terrorists to the border and helping them acquire bombs and heavy weaponry. Lol. I could say the cartels driving ISIS off into the Mexican desert assuring them that was the way it was going to happen, before stopping the truck, machine gunning them all, and then mailing their severed heads to the FBI as perverse tokens of good faith. "See? We are all on the same team here."

I think sometimes people allow notions of morality and evil to take precedence over what drug dealing really is, especially at the hand-to-hand level. Yes, the cartels routinely commit atrocities against each other, but at the bottom end of the business, it's simply about maximizing profit. 

I mean, I guess I could see them trying out this theory. After all, the other alternative is they are killing people through sloppiness, so it's not like this business is running optimally in either case. But I tend toward idiocy and carelessness rather than an attempt at diabolical genius.

For the most part, only shitty drug dealers toss fentanyl in coke but it happens.  
 

‘Never go cheap on your accountant, attorney, or drug dealer.’ 
 

-Abe Lincoln, probably 

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1 hour ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I know a few folks in recovery who swore going into it they were cocaine addicts, but figured out they were actually alcoholics who abused cocaine for the reasons Al mentioned up thread. Even a guy who had a cocaine induced heart attack came to realize the root of the problem was booze. 

Yeah, I'm not about to diminish anyone's addiction if they're honestly seeking help, but in the recovery community, there's a lot of thought that coke is different and that the psychological aspect is bigger than the physical.  By that, I mean pretty serious thought, not just crotchety old-timers that don't want NAs at AA and shit like that.

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1 hour ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I know a few folks in recovery who swore going into it they were cocaine addicts, but figured out they were actually alcoholics who abused cocaine for the reasons Al mentioned up thread. Even a guy who had a cocaine induced heart attack came to realize the root of the problem was booze. 

Similar to "porn addicts" who figured out it was actually cocaine causing them masturbate 7x daily.

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4 hours ago, RDCanecutter said:

That's what Fentanyl looks like? I'm doomed-- those thing turn up in my change, no telling how many times I've been exposed to them.

 

4 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

That is considered a lethal dose.

Never knew ol' Honest Abe died of a Fentanyl overdose. A fatal dose is way bigger than I thought it was. Compared to his head, it's about the size of a smushed softball-sized hail stone.

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1 hour ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

I know a few folks in recovery who swore going into it they were cocaine addicts, but figured out they were actually alcoholics who abused cocaine for the reasons Al mentioned up thread. Even a guy who had a cocaine induced heart attack came to realize the root of the problem was booze. 

I mean... you can be addicted to the combination. With that one especially because your liver forms cocaethylene which makes the cocaine high last longer. Whether or not you're an alcoholic can be independent of being a coke addict.

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These poor saps from West Point are just reflections of all the issues we face as a country regarding drugs. The monies involved in every facet of it have fucked up our society; I don’t know anyone whose family hasn’t been affected in some manner by addiction, regardless of street drug, pharmaceutical, or alcohol.

If you’re a politician I believe you’re on the cartel money teat, the more anti drug the more suspicion I have. Conversely all of Washington is owned by the Big Pharma’s Citizens United enabled massive money udder. Look at the strange bedfellows opposing cannabis legalization…drug interdiction, trial lawyers, treatment farms, list is endless of industries built on maintaining the drug money train. I mean why, after decades of pols who smoked weed at some point, is it still a fucking Schedule I narcotic? Legalization by states is meaningless unless retailers and growers can bank, borrow, and transport.

Anyway we have built a huge basket of snakes which unfortunately leaves a growing pile of dead bodies, wrecked families, and ridiculous expenditures of treasure to perpetuate more of all of it.

Don’t forget the private prison industry and Big Tobacco and alcohol companies.
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It’s all there. Prison industry. Treatment industry. Prosecutors. Trial lawyers. On and on. The economy is built in this crap.

Look at Narcan. What a great drug to rescue ODs. But it has increased risky behaviors with addicts to enable chasing the high knowing that Narcan will bring them back. Often the victim will curse the first responders that Gave them for ducking with their high. And putting it in every cop car, ambulamps, fire truck, school nurse, etc makes a Pharma company big bucks.

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1 hour ago, Texzilla58 said:

It’s all there. Prison industry. Treatment industry. Prosecutors. Trial lawyers. On and on. The economy is built in this crap.

Look at Narcan. What a great drug to rescue ODs. But it has increased risky behaviors with addicts to enable chasing the high knowing that Narcan will bring them back. Often the victim will curse the first responders that Gave them for ducking with their high. And putting it in every cop car, ambulamps, fire truck, school nurse, etc makes a Pharma company big bucks.

Old Sears Roebuck catalogs from 120 years ago would sell opiate based alcohol cures and alcohol based opiate cures

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Exactly.  I've wanted to do (and subsequently done) coke many times because I sought something that was stimulating and warded off some of the physical depressant effects of booze.  The goal was to be loosened up (by the booze) enough to lower your inhibitions and have some fun, but not be sloppy and sleepy (that's where the coke came in).
The idea of opiates has never been even a little appealing to me.  My litmus test for mind-altering substances was always "do the people using it look like they're having fun?"  Booze, weed, coke, and hallucinogens generally passed this test.  Opiates never have.
The idea of fentanyl in coke is completely unappealing to most people seeking out coke.

Some people just want to feel good (euphoric, detached). Not necessarily party and act like a coked out asshole (not saying you were).
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47 minutes ago, Patricio Swayze said:


Some people just want to feel good (euphoric, detached). Not necessarily party and act like a coked out asshole (not saying you were).

Coke actually kinda had an alerting but mellowing effect on me.  Never made me aggressive or obnoxiously chatty (although I'm chatty enough sober).  I also don't think I ever did enough at one time to reach that coked out phase (I've observed it many times).  Pretty much every time I've done coke it was one line and then moving on with my night.

 

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Since prohibition, we’ve been losing the war on drugs. The US is the league leader of using drugs and it aint even close. We consume drugs (legal and otherwise) at least 10x that of other countries and consume 70-80% of the world’s opioids.

We have an addiction problem that fuels the supply. Its a very lucrative business and users will continue to risk their lives. And cartels and big pharma will continue to find ways to move product.

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11 hours ago, Texzilla58 said:

It’s all there. Prison industry. Treatment industry. Prosecutors. Trial lawyers. On and on. The economy is built in this crap.

Look at Narcan. What a great drug to rescue ODs. But it has increased risky behaviors with addicts to enable chasing the high knowing that Narcan will bring them back. Often the victim will curse the first responders that Gave them for ducking with their high. And putting it in every cop car, ambulamps, fire truck, school nurse, etc makes a Pharma company big bucks.

Well, another thing about addiction.  One way to look at it is a slow, "cowardly" way to commit suicide.  It may not be at the forefront of a lot of addicts' brains, but a fatal OD may not be the worst thing within their contemplation.

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

Well, another thing about addiction.  One way to look at it is a slow, "cowardly" way to commit suicide.  It may not be at the forefront of a lot of addicts' brains, but a fatal OD may not be the worst thing within their contemplation.

I've come to that conclusion.  The people I've known who are true active addicts seem to be resigned to their habit greatly decreasing their lifespan and aren't very concerned about it.

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31 minutes ago, Eskimohorn said:

Since prohibition, we’ve been losing the war on drugs. The US is the league leader of using drugs and it aint even close. We consume drugs (legal and otherwise) at least 10x that of other countries and consume 70-80% of the world’s opioids.

We have an addiction problem that fuels the supply. Its a very lucrative business and users will continue to risk their lives. And cartels and big pharma will continue to find ways to move product.

It's not even an addiction problem, per se.  We just take a lot of drugs, to include alcohol.  Of course, you can't have addiction without use, but I'm not sure it's really addicts that drive the demand.  I think the statistics are pretty uniform worldwide that actual addicts are 10-20% of the population.  But users, and heavy users with a tolerance and withdrawal symptoms (this happens to anyone that takes enough substances and is only a facet of actual addiction), are a larger percentage.

Some of that derives from a misplaced focus on freedom and individuality, and I think some of it derives from the mythical aspects of the "American dream" and what happens when it is not achieved.

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This is a failure by various school districts across the country. When we were in 5th grade at my suburban elementary school we had this ingenious program called D.A.R.E. and because of their efforts I am duty bound by signature never to try drugs or alcohol. If only more school districts had listened to mine...well what could have been.

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1 hour ago, Al_4_ISU said:

Coke actually kinda had an alerting but mellowing effect on me.  Never made me aggressive or obnoxiously chatty (although I'm chatty enough sober).  I also don't think I ever did enough at one time to reach that coked out phase (I've observed it many times).  Pretty much every time I've done coke it was one line and then moving on with my night.

 

Are you kind of ADD / ADHD? That's how it works on people like us.

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9 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Are you kind of ADD / ADHD? That's how it works on people like us.

No.  Adderall, for example, had a much more of a "typical" coke effect on me than coke ever did.  Lots of folks my age (old millenials, born in the mid 80's) had Adderall prescriptions and I used it recreationally on a somewhat regular basis in my late teens/early 20's.  When ADD kids took it, they'd get really quiet and focused.  I wanted talk incessantly for hours about the minutiae of Neil Young guitar solos and drink as much as humanly possible when I took Adderall.

I'm not sure why coke affected me the way it did.  Like I said, I've never done more than a line or two in the same night.

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1 hour ago, SimonBolivar said:

This is a failure by various school districts across the country. When we were in 5th grade at my suburban elementary school we had this ingenious program called D.A.R.E. and because of their efforts I am duty bound by signature never to try drugs or alcohol. If only more school districts had listened to mine...well what could have been.

My school had cancel D.A.R.E. the year before I was supposed to be in it because the county deputy that ran the program got arrested for selling meth and attempting to drown his ex wife in a bath tub.

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No.  Adderall, for example, had a much more of a "typical" coke effect on me than coke ever did.  Lots of folks my age (old millenials, born in the mid 80's) had Adderall prescriptions and I used it recreationally on a somewhat regular basis in my late teens/early 20's.  When ADD kids took it, they'd get really quiet and focused.  I wanted talk incessantly for hours about the minutiae of Neil Young guitar solos and drink as much as humanly possible when I took Adderall.
I'm not sure why coke affected me the way it did.  Like I said, I've never done more than a line or two in the same night.

Addictions run in both my wife’s family and mine. Our son is 41 and overcame his issues about ten years ago. Anyway when he started 2nd grade he had a shitty teacher. For some reason we were getting calls about behavior problems which he had not exhibited in first grade or daycare previous.

Wife went to meet the fairly new teacher. She complained about his behaviors and it was basic 6 yr old stuff. Fidgeting, running outside, talking too much to his friends. She said all the boys were “bad” and needed to act like the girls. Then produced some brochures and wanted her to sign a release to give him adderall at school. My wife got in her face and told her if she touched our son or ever gave him as much as a cookie she would fuck her up so bad she’d be in the hospital for a year wishing she had just killed her.

No more issues. And that was the only problem with a teacher he ever had. We had great relationships with all his teachers the rest of the way. We’re always supportive but the drugging of kids is way overboard.
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