Realignment talk not going away

[USC Traveler 488]

43 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

That dude crushed the entire saga and should be dunking constantly on Canzano and the others every time they tweet anything. Just throw old takes at them in reply over and over. I know he did his own thread the other day, but he should do one every other day for the rest of the year eternity.

Fify.

[Dnaguy 11704]

3 minutes ago, locodos said:

fify

I think the issue with the SEC NOT taking FSU & Clemson is that they let the B1G plant a big stake right in their backyard with 2 'brands'.

It's more of a defensive play really.

Then you go hard for UNC

Notre Dame joins the B1G no question in my mind. Just too much $. The question is if they demand Stanford be brought along for the ride. 

B1G's preference would likely to bring ND and UNC.

So if SEC doesn't get UNC, then I think SEC stays at 18. Is there really two brands that help the league?

Virginia seems like a fit, but do they bring value? Then who? NC state? VaTech? Maimi?

Probably not.

 

[BurntOrange&White 39268]

 

How does Crow retain his position moving forward?

 

[dogfarts 45]

Utah vs BYU -- Their fans HATE each other... nice to see them in the same conference

To be fair, everyone hates Utah fans

[Francisco 2.0 32290]

Speaking of Sportico, here's an August 2020 article on Cal's debt issues:

 

https://www.sportico.com/leagues/college-sports/2020/cal-bears-financial-troubles-1234609207/

 

Quote

The financial situation for the Cal Golden Bears is about to go from bad to worse.

One of the country’s largest and most successful athletic programs, Cal is also remarkable in another way. No public school’s athletic department has more debt than the Bears, the result of what was once the most expensive capital project in NCAA history.

The program is struggling in the same ways many others are too. College football is hanging by a thread, which means ticket sales and possibly TV money will drop significantly. Cal’s also losing partners—Under Armour is trying to back out of its $86 million contract—and facing a new wave of athlete activism, born from football players on its own campus, with a long list of demands.

 

Quote

It’s a financial minefield. In the four years before COVID-19 disrupted college sports this spring, Cal’s athletic department ran a combined $75.8 million deficit. With tensions already high on campus about resources given to athletics, the Golden Bears may be the poster child for how the pandemic could change the financing of big-time college sports.

“The options they have are really limited,” said John Cummins, Cal’s former associate chancellor.  “Let’s just assume that the impact, even if they play football, is tens of millions of dollars. Then the question is, how much of that do they want to assume in debt, and how much of that will require cuts of some kind?”

 

 

Quote

Cal’s not alone, of course. This story will play out across the NCAA, as debt comes due, revenues dip, partners back out of deals and state funding dries up. Top-division athletic departments sold more than $1.1 billion in football tickets in 2018, and brought in more than $2.2 billion in media payments, mostly for football rights. NCAA payouts from the canceled March Madness tournament will drop by 63%, and the companies and people that college sports rely on are also struggling.

“We have no plan for a year without football,” one athletic director told Sportico.

“It would be Armageddon,” said another.

 

 

Spoiler

Those conversations happened before a group of more than 100 Pac-12 football players announced that they wouldn’t play this year until they were granted a series of new financial and medical benefits. The group was borne out of conversations between Golden Bears players, and their asks include a guarantee that no more sports would be eliminated on Pac-12 campuses, the right to market themselves, and most notably, 50% of conference revenue to be distributed to athletes.

“To ensure future generations of college athletes will be treated fairly, #WeAreUnited,” the group said in an open letter published on The Player’s Tribune.

A university known much more for its activism and academics, Cal–Berkeley’s athletic philosophy has historically focused on opportunities for students. The Bears offer 30 sports, one of the highest totals in the country, and they excel at many of them. As of last year, Cal had won 97 national team titles in 16 sports. The school has had a national champion, team or individual, in 46 straight years.

Offering that many sports is expensive, especially as the costs to maintain top-tier football and basketball teams skyrocket. Amid the financial problems of the past few decades, Cal’s athletic leaders have seemingly made decisions based on the belief that revenue will always grow in the future.

Many on campus no longer believe that’s true. Losing the $86 million Under Armour deal, one of the bigger apparel contracts in college sports, would affect revenue for years to come. The school’s $100 million commercial rights deal with Learfield IMG College, may also need renegotiating, though an athletic spokesman says it remains intact. Another big variable is the value of the Pac-12’s next round of TV deals, set to be negotiated over the next few years.

“There’s this optimism that lives in the world of college sports that you can just raise more money,” said Karen Weaver, a sports management professor at Drexel. “But COVID has exposed the problems with all of the money systems that they count on.”

Long before this metaphorical seismic shock, Cal had to deal with literal ones. Its football stadium was built atop a geological fault, and instead of building or playing elsewhere, leadership chose a pricey renovation that cost more than $200 million in retrofitting. By the time it was finished in 2012, construction costs (which included a high-performance center) had mushroomed to $474 million, an NCAA record for a capital project.

Of that cost, about $445 million was financed through borrowing. Debt-service payments, currently at $18 million, will eventually jump to $37 million in 2039. The payment schedule stretches into the next century.

Cal originally planned to pay off the debt with decades-long season ticket packages, but demand for those were weaker than expected. Just a few years after finishing the renovation, one of the largest athletic departments in the country realized it couldn’t pay its bills.

 

Facing an impasse, Cal formed a 14-person task force in 2016, then commissioned a review from an outside consulting firm. Millions were floated from the chancellor’s office to athletics. In late 2017 a potential long-term solution was reached—new chancellor Carol Christ agreed to have the school assume more than half of the stadium debt payments.

She and new athletic director Jim Knowlton then agreed to a six-year budget plan designed to reduce the department’s reliance on the school from $25 million in 2020 to around $13 million by 2025. A Bears spokesman said that despite the cancellation of spring sports, including the postseason basketball tournaments, Cal athletics met its budget target for 2020.

“We are considering a number of different measures, but at this point, we do not want to speculate and believe it is too early to fully understand the impact of the pandemic given the number of uncertainties,” he said.

That leaves a lot of questions for right now. Cal’s athletics budget is around $108 million, with $36 million of that attributed to football. Some revenue will be held, and the school will save some costs—it can cost $2 million to fly its football team to games—but a canceled football season would be catastrophic.

What looms are a host of bad options, many of the same ones being debated by presidents, chancellors and athletic directors around the country. One option available to the Bears: borrowing more money. Cummins said athletics has the option to borrow money from the UC system president’s office in the form of a 2.5% interest loan that would feature five years of interest-only payment before the principal kicks in. (A spokeswoman for the UC President Janet Napolitano’s office did not respond to requests for comment.)

But the department, which is supposed to be self-sustaining, has struggled to pay back money in the past. Cal chancellors in 1999 and 2007 forgave a combined $49 million in athletics deficits that the school had covered. That was before Christ took on the around $200 million for the stadium project. “The problem is that athletics has never been able to pay back debt,” said Cummins, who wrote a 28-page research report on the saga back in 2017.

Then there’s cutting programs. Nearby Stanford University, a school that Cal considers a rival both athletically and academically, turned heads across the country when it dropped 11 varsity sports last month. Cal could drop the same number and still offer more than many FBS schools.

But Cal’s been there before as well. In 2010 the school tried to eliminate five sports, and all were reinstated following alumni uproar. Sports are near and dear to many donors’ hearts, and keeping donors happy is increasingly important as state money dries up. There are other options, like trimming operating expenses for sports or laying off staff, but those likely won’t save enough to cover losses.

The entire university, including athletics, has projected a $340 millionbudget gap due to COVID-19. The school has imposed a hiring and a salary freeze and last month laid out a mitigation plan—which includes short-term borrowing, more federal funding and personnel changes—that would reduce that gap to $65 million.

“Universities were struggling with resource allocation before this virus hit, and with remote learning and enrollment drops, resources will dwindle even more,” said Brad Bates, a former D-I athletic director who was part of the consulting group that did Cal’s 2017 review. “There’s going to be a more intensified fight for how those resources are prioritized and allocated across campus.”

The sports-specific decisions rest with leaders like Christ and Knowlton, who must correct the financial missteps of the people who held their jobs before them. Both were unavailable to comment for this story, though they’ve said in the past that cutting sports is a last resort.

No matter what happens, there’s likely to be a new round of opposition from faculty on campus. That last resort may soon become reality, but maybe not in the way that some would expect.

“Perhaps the pandemic will finally give Berkeley a way to get out of having a football team,” said one member of the 2016 task force. “We will see.”

 

[USC Traveler 488]

20 minutes ago, LTbear said:

I feel like Louisville and Pitt are very realistic/ neither is valuable enough to the B1G or SEC. Getting NC State or Va Tech would be awesome. If Duke, good lord what a basketball league. 

UL and Pitt also bring added value due to WV and UC already being in the conference.  That's a fun, salty pod.  

VT would fit in well with those teams also, although VT and NCSt could easily end up SEC if UVA/UNC go BIG.

[Dnaguy 11704]

5 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Speaking of Sportico, here's an August 2020 article on Cal's debt issues:

 

https://www.sportico.com/leagues/college-sports/2020/cal-bears-financial-troubles-1234609207/

 

 

 

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Those conversations happened before a group of more than 100 Pac-12 football players announced that they wouldn’t play this year until they were granted a series of new financial and medical benefits. The group was borne out of conversations between Golden Bears players, and their asks include a guarantee that no more sports would be eliminated on Pac-12 campuses, the right to market themselves, and most notably, 50% of conference revenue to be distributed to athletes.

“To ensure future generations of college athletes will be treated fairly, #WeAreUnited,” the group said in an open letter published on The Player’s Tribune.

A university known much more for its activism and academics, Cal–Berkeley’s athletic philosophy has historically focused on opportunities for students. The Bears offer 30 sports, one of the highest totals in the country, and they excel at many of them. As of last year, Cal had won 97 national team titles in 16 sports. The school has had a national champion, team or individual, in 46 straight years.

Offering that many sports is expensive, especially as the costs to maintain top-tier football and basketball teams skyrocket. Amid the financial problems of the past few decades, Cal’s athletic leaders have seemingly made decisions based on the belief that revenue will always grow in the future.

Many on campus no longer believe that’s true. Losing the $86 million Under Armour deal, one of the bigger apparel contracts in college sports, would affect revenue for years to come. The school’s $100 million commercial rights deal with Learfield IMG College, may also need renegotiating, though an athletic spokesman says it remains intact. Another big variable is the value of the Pac-12’s next round of TV deals, set to be negotiated over the next few years.

“There’s this optimism that lives in the world of college sports that you can just raise more money,” said Karen Weaver, a sports management professor at Drexel. “But COVID has exposed the problems with all of the money systems that they count on.”

Long before this metaphorical seismic shock, Cal had to deal with literal ones. Its football stadium was built atop a geological fault, and instead of building or playing elsewhere, leadership chose a pricey renovation that cost more than $200 million in retrofitting. By the time it was finished in 2012, construction costs (which included a high-performance center) had mushroomed to $474 million, an NCAA record for a capital project.

Of that cost, about $445 million was financed through borrowing. Debt-service payments, currently at $18 million, will eventually jump to $37 million in 2039. The payment schedule stretches into the next century.

Cal originally planned to pay off the debt with decades-long season ticket packages, but demand for those were weaker than expected. Just a few years after finishing the renovation, one of the largest athletic departments in the country realized it couldn’t pay its bills.

 

Facing an impasse, Cal formed a 14-person task force in 2016, then commissioned a review from an outside consulting firm. Millions were floated from the chancellor’s office to athletics. In late 2017 a potential long-term solution was reached—new chancellor Carol Christ agreed to have the school assume more than half of the stadium debt payments.

She and new athletic director Jim Knowlton then agreed to a six-year budget plan designed to reduce the department’s reliance on the school from $25 million in 2020 to around $13 million by 2025. A Bears spokesman said that despite the cancellation of spring sports, including the postseason basketball tournaments, Cal athletics met its budget target for 2020.

“We are considering a number of different measures, but at this point, we do not want to speculate and believe it is too early to fully understand the impact of the pandemic given the number of uncertainties,” he said.

That leaves a lot of questions for right now. Cal’s athletics budget is around $108 million, with $36 million of that attributed to football. Some revenue will be held, and the school will save some costs—it can cost $2 million to fly its football team to games—but a canceled football season would be catastrophic.

What looms are a host of bad options, many of the same ones being debated by presidents, chancellors and athletic directors around the country. One option available to the Bears: borrowing more money. Cummins said athletics has the option to borrow money from the UC system president’s office in the form of a 2.5% interest loan that would feature five years of interest-only payment before the principal kicks in. (A spokeswoman for the UC President Janet Napolitano’s office did not respond to requests for comment.)

But the department, which is supposed to be self-sustaining, has struggled to pay back money in the past. Cal chancellors in 1999 and 2007 forgave a combined $49 million in athletics deficits that the school had covered. That was before Christ took on the around $200 million for the stadium project. “The problem is that athletics has never been able to pay back debt,” said Cummins, who wrote a 28-page research report on the saga back in 2017.

Then there’s cutting programs. Nearby Stanford University, a school that Cal considers a rival both athletically and academically, turned heads across the country when it dropped 11 varsity sports last month. Cal could drop the same number and still offer more than many FBS schools.

But Cal’s been there before as well. In 2010 the school tried to eliminate five sports, and all were reinstated following alumni uproar. Sports are near and dear to many donors’ hearts, and keeping donors happy is increasingly important as state money dries up. There are other options, like trimming operating expenses for sports or laying off staff, but those likely won’t save enough to cover losses.

The entire university, including athletics, has projected a $340 millionbudget gap due to COVID-19. The school has imposed a hiring and a salary freeze and last month laid out a mitigation plan—which includes short-term borrowing, more federal funding and personnel changes—that would reduce that gap to $65 million.

“Universities were struggling with resource allocation before this virus hit, and with remote learning and enrollment drops, resources will dwindle even more,” said Brad Bates, a former D-I athletic director who was part of the consulting group that did Cal’s 2017 review. “There’s going to be a more intensified fight for how those resources are prioritized and allocated across campus.”

The sports-specific decisions rest with leaders like Christ and Knowlton, who must correct the financial missteps of the people who held their jobs before them. Both were unavailable to comment for this story, though they’ve said in the past that cutting sports is a last resort.

No matter what happens, there’s likely to be a new round of opposition from faculty on campus. That last resort may soon become reality, but maybe not in the way that some would expect.

“Perhaps the pandemic will finally give Berkeley a way to get out of having a football team,” said one member of the 2016 task force. “We will see.”

 

Quote

he and new athletic director Jim Knowlton then agreed to a six-year budget plan designed to reduce the department’s reliance on the school from $25 million in 2020 to around $13 million by 2025. A Bears spokesman said that despite the cancellation of spring sports, including the postseason basketball tournaments, Cal athletics met its budget target for 2020.

 

Something tells me they aren't going to meet that budget plan now!

[USC_TMB 405]

10 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

How does Crow retain his position moving forward?

 

1. Sign with PAC12

2. Get on the interwebz

3. ???

4. Profit

[Dnaguy 11704]

11 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

How does Crow retain his position moving forward?

 

 

Mike Crow:

[BurntOrange&White 39268]

 

 

 

[gatormarc 904]

Guess there's no direct translation for Jorts. Just goes to show you how different our cultures really are.

Jean shorts makes it sound so fancy like with hem lines and shit.

[locodos 5328]

5 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

I think the issue with the SEC NOT taking FSU & Clemson is that they let the B1G plant a big stake right in their backyard with 2 'brands'.

It's more of a defensive play really.

Then you go hard for UNC

Notre Dame joins the B1G no question in my mind. Just too much $. The question is if they demand Stanford be brought along for the ride. 

B1G's preference would likely to bring ND and UNC.

So if SEC doesn't get UNC, then I think SEC stays at 18. Is there really two brands that help the league?

Virginia seems like a fit, but do they bring value? Then who? NC state? VaTech? Maimi?

Probably not.

 

You can't lock up markets by taking FSU...  Miami is still there and to a much lesser extent USF just got AAU membership and is building a Stadium on campus.

Souf Cakalaky, is it even worth trying to lock down?  I mean SEC already has a presence.

Populations:

9	North Carolina	37000	10,698,973
10	Michigan	26000	10,034,113
11	New Jersey	34000	9,261,699
12	Virginia	51000	8,683,619
13	Washington	53000	7,785,786
14	Arizona	04000	7,359,197
15	Tennessee	47000	7,051,339
16	Massachusetts	25000	6,981,974
17	Indiana	18000	6,833,037
18	Missouri	29000	6,177,957
19	Maryland	24000	6,164,660
20	Wisconsin	55000	5,892,539
21	Colorado	08000	5,839,926
22	Minnesota	27000	5,717,184
23	South Carolina	45000	5,282,634

On the other hand expanding SEC footprint to North Carolina and Virginia has a better chance of adding value to existing members.

My preference is for the SEC to stand pat...  

Also watching f$u rolling around on the floor pitching a fit is so entertaining. (especially since in the 90's the Gata got them an invite to the SEC and they turned it down)

Quote

"The SEC is the only logical conference for us to get into from a geographical standpoint, but that depends on two things: increase in the size of our stadium and the ability of our football team to beat some of the SEC members."

—Dr. Howard Danford, FSU Athletic Director, 11/20/1955.

TAMPA—Every summer there seems to be that certain buzz in the air about conference expansion, or, conference collapse. The impending doom of the next "Temple Owls" program, or the rise of some titanic "super-conference."

Somewhere, mixed in the shuffle of all the media reports and sportscasts, almost assuredly you'll be reminded in some small token of the SEC and ACC expansions of 1991, and you'd have to have a trained ear to not hear the name "FSU" coinciding with the bickerings of "cowards" brought up by a certain fanbase some 150 miles down the road.

Well it's true. 

In 1990, the Seminoles agreed to join a basketball conference—the ACC, which was and perhaps still is, less well known for its prowess on the gridiron.

The Seminoles turned down a lucrative bid for one of two open spots in perhaps one of the best football conferences in the land—the SEC.

The Seminoles would go on to play for an unthinkable five National Championships in the next 10 years, winning two in the process. Fans outside of the ACC would say it was due in large part to their dominance within an inferior football conference. They may have been right.

The Seminoles were simply afraid to play a real schedule, against real football teams, namely the teams in the SEC...

...or were they?

 

To understand the love/hate duality between Florida State and the Southeastern Conference—a lot of history needs to first be examined. The Seminoles' love affair with the SEC did not begin in the late 1980s, no.

Rather, it began through a humiliating series of disappointing rejections, over the course of a 30-plus year process, in which FSU repeatedly applied for membership only to be continuously told, "no."

The irony behind their lengthy plight, as unimaginable as it may sound, was not due in part to the organization whose fans had proclaimed FSU's cowardice in the final days leading up to the Seminoles' joining of the Atlantic Coast Conference in the late Summer of 1990. Instead, FSU would find that the University of Florida—was for many years, its repeated advocate for admission into the conference.

As far back as 1955, Florida State had been looking for a home. A conference where the Seminoles could gain in notoriety, financial support, and capability of becoming a school that could compete in both academics, and athletics.

From the turn of the century, FSU had been designated an all-women's University, while its sister school in Gainesville had been designated an all-men's campus, inheriting both FSU's football program, and fraternity system. During the course of that period however, the University of Florida did not experience any largely significant successes leading up to the co-ed expansion of both schools following World War II. 

During the expansion era, FSU made tremendous strides under Head Coach Don Veller, posting winning records in four of its first five seasons, and finishing as their conference's champion in 1948 and 1949, and again in 1950 when they would go undefeated—two accomplishments that had not yet been realized in Gainesville.

Florida State would officially apply for membership its first time (of many) in 1960, citing its schedule of three SEC opponents that season—Auburn, Kentucky and Florida. FSU would lose to all three. Before the season begins that year, Florida cites its support for both Florida State and Miami to join the conference following the 1960 season. 

It would never happen.

In 1962, FSU would again lobby for support from the University of Florida to expand the SEC and allow it to join. FSU would garner support from another unlikely source—Jim Whatley from the University of Georgia's coaching staff. Whatley cited that FSU joining the conference would benefit by way of its accommodating facilities, which, at the time, were well ahead of other SEC stadiums. The needed revenue would almost assuredly garner favor for FSU to join the conference, alongside the growing support of other SEC members. FSU's effort would again—fail

Again in 1963, it would seem with FSU playing toe-to-toe with each of its SEC opponents, (losing only to UF,) FSU would be a lock to join the SEC. Ray Graves of Florida even announced his endorsement of the Tallahassee program joining the SEC. FSU's application would again be declined.

In 1964, the same. Rejection. 

1965, a motion was made at the annual SEC meeting, but there was no second.

1966 and 1967, no motion was even made. Florida Head Coach Ray Graves reversed his position on sponsoring Florida State, citing that even though FSU would be a good fit, the current allotment of 10 teams (with Tulane having departed) was perfect, and just what all current SEC teams really need.

In 1968, Graves and the University of Florida again "supported" FSU joining the SEC, but only if a 12th team would join, could the support be fostered and carried by more than the administration in Gainesville. The SEC voted down the proposal, due to a lack of a 12th team. 

Florida would begin to dwindle in its support for FSU as its efforts would continuously go unnoticed by the SEC for the next 15 years. 

Through the 1970s and 1980s, former FSU president Stanley Marshall began to push the issue by conducting a personal tour of SEC campuses, in an attempt to land the Seminoles a place within the conference. It seemingly was becoming more and more of an issue as Florida State began to make quite a name for itself in the 1980s, but it wasn't until 1990 that another suitor—the Atlantic Coast Conference, would come calling. 

Football Head Coach Bobby Bowden now found himself in a position to realize the dream of so many before him in anointing FSU the prodigal child of the two-team expansion of the SEC, but somehow, some way, the ACC had managed to divert Bobby's eyes, along with Athletic Director Bob Goin, just long enough to make the Seminoles strongly consider a move that was against their natural, and seemingly life-long inclination: joining the Southeastern Conference. 

Now it's no secret that the offer to join the ACC has paid off handsomely for the Seminoles, who have already made a name for themselves as one of the best programs in the last 30 years. The question on everyone's mind now is "will FSU make the final leap to the SEC?" 

Not so fast. 

To understand the story is one thing. 

Boy likes girl, girl doesn't like boy. 

Boy asks for girl to go out with him.

Girl says no. 

Girl says no again.

...and again.

...and again.

Boy finally dries his eyes, and moves on, and eventually finds a girl who seems to like him.

She treats him well. 

He falls for her. 

They get married. 

The girl he thought he wanted, suddenly wants him.

Ironic. 

Now in fairy tale land, it would make sense for the boy to stay with the girl who was good to him from the start. 

This isn't fairy tale land. This is the real world, and issues like conference expansion are legitimately more complex than the scenario mentioned above (unless you're the boy in this scenario, which might mean the world is falling apart for you).

 

Should FSU consider looking at the SEC long-term? 

Possibly. 

It would make sense both geographically, as well as from a sales standpoint. It's no secret that SEC ticket sales have single-handedly made FSU's sister school—the University of Florida—sufficed to say, a huge success. FSU in recent years has seen its ticket sales seemingly drop, and the need for difficult out-of-conference games have done little to pick up these dwindling numbers. 

Will it benefit FSU in the trophy room? Maybe not. 

Admittedly, the SEC is a very, very tough conference to play in. But, looking at the love/hate relationship we've just explored, you do have to wonder. Which is more important to a University:

Ticket sales, or winning in front of an empty house?

Maybe history can help both sides consider their differences, or maybe we won't hear about this again...until next year. 

 

[USC Traveler 488]

Clownzano is obviously a total hack, but it's stunning that so-called "journalists" like Mandel and Wilner never expressed skepticism or looked below the surface to see what the real story was with the PAC tv negotiations.  

There were so many signs along the way.  Marchand and Ourand's reporting should have been sounding alarm bells.  B12 closing their tv deal quickly, all of the missed deadlines, etc, etc- everyone in this thread saw it a mile away- Klownkoff was full of bs and was stalling for time.  

But Wilner just kept moving the goalposts and carrying water for Klownkoff, while Mandel refused to believe the PAC was vulnerable.

Not coincidentally perhaps, they are both based in the Bay Area, and their attitudes reflect the PAC's general mindset for the last 20 years that led to this- hubris, arrogance, lack of vision, incompetence.

Complete loss of credibility on all levels for Mandel and Wilner, who became propagandists a year ago, and then got worse over time.

[Vic Mackey 46856]

.

[Rimbo 25705]

1 hour ago, LTbear said:

Oh what BS. I have three degrees, have taught at 5 different universities, and also did a two year fellowship at Stanford. Cal had the best/ most invested professors I've ever seen. How they did all the research while teaching at such a level is beyond me. 

 

12 hours ago, Welshy said:

That's the funniest shit I've ever seen. Cal cares less about its students than Stanford...and that's a lot less than atm, bamer or WVU does. This is one of, and not the only reason why, AAU sucks. These schools operate in very rarified research circles. They are not good educators. The 30-100 thousand students who attend and spend massive amounts of money at these schools are generally taught by student teachers, then by junior, non tenured professors. Think I'm wrong? Do you think those professors getting 10s of millions or 100s of millions of dollars for research are teaching 1 or 2 or 3k classes?

They are not. 

Generally speaking, what the top 50 schools in the country consider education is exactly NOT education. It's a scam. And they know it. And don't care. 

Cry me a river, Cal. Manage your goddamn bills. 

Yeah, Welshy, I'm guessing you never actually attended either institution, and know nobody who ever did.

What you've written here is some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen posted on the football board, and this is coming from me, of all people. Believe me, I know stupid takes. But this is either a very awful troll, or the ravings of a Drag Rat in the final stages of withdrawal levels of idiocy.

[gatormarc 904]

8 minutes ago, locodos said:

Boy finally dries his eyes, and moves on, and eventually finds a girl who seems to like him.

She treats him well. 

He falls for her. 

They get married. 

The girl he thought he wanted, suddenly wants him.

Ironic. 

Except SEC and ACC made offers at the same time.

[Rimbo 25705]

5 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

.

 

[Rimbo 25705]

12 minutes ago, locodos said:

My preference is for the SEC to stand pat...  

bullshit.

[Welshy 907]

1 minute ago, Rimbo said:

 

Yeah, Welshy, I'm guessing you never actually attended either institution, and know nobody who ever did.

What you've written here is some of the dumbest shit I've ever seen posted on the football board, and this is coming from me, of all people. Believe me, I know stupid takes. But this is either a very awful troll, or the ravings of a Drag Rat in the final stages of withdrawal levels of idiocy.

Fair. 

I was not coherent.  Apologies all around.

[locodos 5328]

1 minute ago, Rimbo said:

bullshit.

Thanks for telling me what I think...   What's for dinner?

[gatormarc 904]

11 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

.

Is this one of those alternative facts I keep hearing about?

[LTtxfan 48823]

37 minutes ago, dogfarts said:

To be fair, everyone hates Utah fans

 

President Crow matches your username ✔

 

ASU should fire Crow

[Sbbruin 21690]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

How are the PAC apologists doing this morning? Honestly, this an improvement. 

Would you rather watch Wisconsin v Oregon at 930 or Washington State v Oregon at 930?

 

Not an apologist, just sad to see a once great conference die.  Our die was cast last summer, so I can’t complain.  Just makes me sad nevertheless.  

[Surly Bevo 24686]

.

I love Joel but he works for Fox. So uh yea.

[Dewey 3279]

There's no way with the moves that the big xii is making that the sec stands still. The acc better watch their ass, because both those conferences are coming. 

[Sbbruin 21690]

4 minutes ago, Surly Bevo said:

I love Joel but he works for Fox. So uh yea.

Yeah, I like Klatt but that is just a stupid take.  SEC with UT and OU may actually be a pretty good conference.  

[billfromlaketravis 11328]

1 hour ago, Chopper said:

I've heard no conference wants to go past 18 teams due to scheduling problems. Don't know how true it is.

I've also heard that when a west coast team is scheduled to play Penn St, they'll have a 3 hour bus ride to/from Pittsburgh just to get to an airport that has a landing strip long enough to handle planes that can fly non-stop from/to the west coast and PA. University Park can only accommodate regional jets.

Nicole Auerbach pointed out that West Coast visitors to Penn State will have to take a smaller plane to land at State College. They’ll have to refuel somewhere in the Midwest. 

While I have no problem with Big Ten expansion, I think they’ll run into a host of travel issues like the aforementioned short runways. 

[Deej 76396]

4 minutes ago, Sbbruin said:

Yeah, I like Klatt but that is just a stupid take.  SEC with UT and OU may actually be a pretty good conference.  

aggy still drags it down.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18502]

It’s funny to see the big 12 schools sucking each other’s dicks right about now.  Their continued survival is more about the pac’s incompetence than anything that they actually did. It’s great for them that they are going to get decent tv revenue In this round but that gaggle of spares smells an awful lot like the old mountain west conference.

The playoff negotiations are going to be interesting.  You can bet your sweet ass that one of the auto bids is going away. I wouldn’t be shocked if they whittle it down even further. I wonder what side the big 12 comes down on? Do they think they have a shot to get two teams into the playoff? Or will they know their place at the kiddie table? I also wonder what the networks throw out there because we know they're driving the bus. 

[USC Traveler 488]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

My theory is FOX ran some models, and they concluded that making Oregon/Washington wander in the desert for 8 years would diminish their brands. Might as well add them now as junior members while their stock is high. 

Yeah-  I think it's that plus a few other things for Fox:

1.  It makes the conference tv package stronger overall.  The other tv partners might have been underwhelmed with what game they're going get in some weeks when they had 3rd pick.  Adding UW and UO gives the BIG more games with solid, tier 2 brands, so easier to have 3 solid games per weekend.

2. Those additional games also means more good games for BTN and FS1.  And more West Coast games for "After Dark" on FS1.  

3.  This also gives the BIG two more teams to host East Coast Primetime games in November, which existing BIG schools have been resisting.

 

//

 

From the BIG side, we kept hearing last year from legit people like Thamel that UW and UO were dilutive for existing BIG schools, so they didn't have support.

But then it came out last month that BIG schools owed Fox about about $5m each due to Warren giving NBC the CCG and from games lost in 2020.

So now the BIG schools were going to make less money than they thought, and with Fox getting the PNW schools at 1/2 price, the additional inventory Fox gained probably allowed them to make the BIG schools whole, so the PNW schools are bringing a little more money to the existing BIG schools.

Ironically, Kevin Warren fucking up the tv deal helped pave the way for the West Coast expansion he couldn't get his members to sign off on last year.😂

[Hurtlocker 2208]

3 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Nicole Auerbach pointed out that West Coast visitors to Penn State will have to take a smaller plane to land at State College. They’ll have to refuel somewhere in the Midwest. 

While I have no problem with Big Ten expansion, I think they’ll run into a host of travel issues like the aforementioned short runways. 

Or land an hour away in Harrisonburg.   Hell, you could land in LAX and take an hour to get to the Rose Bowl.

[gatormarc 904]

7 minutes ago, billfromlaketravis said:

Nicole Auerbach pointed out that West Coast visitors to Penn State will have to take a smaller plane to land at State College. They’ll have to refuel somewhere in the Midwest. 

While I have no problem with Big Ten expansion, I think they’ll run into a host of travel issues like the aforementioned short runways. 

The whole issue seems easy to solve with the money the B1G is getting.

At one point, I understand that the city of Jax paid to extend the runway in Athens as part of a contract extension for the cocktail party.

Edited August 5, 2023 by gatormarc

[closetohumping 17354]

1 hour ago, billfromlaketravis said:

How are the PAC apologists doing this morning? Honestly, this an improvement. 

Would you rather watch Wisconsin v Oregon at 930 or Washington State v Oregon at 930?

 

Apologists?  Idk about that. But the big 12 got four of the schools and four of the schools went to a better conference.  Odd thing to claim scoreboard on.  Congrats on landing utah 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by closetohumping

[bullet 1596]

1 hour ago, gatormarc said:

Depends on if you want to play everyone in your conference frequently or not.

My guess would be that they would change planes at some point into smaller jets for the last leg vs a long bus ride.

The Big 10 ADs were furious when they found out Penn St. had been added.  They were not consulted.  "Do you know how hard it is to get to State College?"

[gatormarc 904]

1 minute ago, bullet said:

The Big 10 ADs were furious when they found out Penn St. had been added.  They were not consulted.  "Do you know how hard it is to get to State College?"

And that was 30+ years ago. How they haven't solved this problem is mind boggling.

[closetohumping 17354]

I just learned that you can’t get a good education at Cal Berkeley.   Guessing some cr undertones are waiting to burst

[closetohumping 17354]

9 minutes ago, Mitch Cumsteen said:

It’s funny to see the big 12 schools sucking each other’s dicks right about now.  Their continued survival is more about the pac’s incompetence than anything that they actually did. It’s great for them that they are going to get decent tv revenue In this round but that gaggle of spares smells an awful lot like the old mountain west conference.

The playoff negotiations are going to be interesting.  You can bet your sweet ass that one of the auto bids is going away. I wouldn’t be shocked if they whittle it down even further. I wonder what side the big 12 comes down on? Do they think they have a shot to get two teams into the playoff? Or will they know their place at the kiddie table? I also wonder what the networks throw out there because we know they're driving the bus. 

So reading this thread, basically usc saved the big 12

[BigHornedLurker 1888]

One thought I have running in my mind I'd hoe do you seed a new conference if you want to ditch the dead weight.

1. SEC as I understand has no exit fees. Is this confirmed ? 

2. Could ND be the seed to align around what happens next ? 

 

 

[Welshy 907]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I just learned that you can’t get a good education at Cal Berkeley.   Guessing some cr undertones are waiting to burst

Sigh. 

[billfromlaketravis 11328]

Has the Big Ten issued a statement/plan on permanent rivalries? I would assume all the West Coast teams will play each other every year. That would leave them 6 games to play the other 17 schools. I guess theoretically everybody could play everybody once every 3 years. 
 

Yay USC fan, right?! 

[bullet 1596]

1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

How does Crow retain his position moving forward?

 

Media overlords?!

Man is he easy to sell.  23rd century Apple deal!

 

[Chopper 17056]

The problem the B1G had and that Fox went all out to try to rectify is that if UM or OSU aren't playing, few people who watch college football on tv give a flying fuck about any of the other B10 games. That situation looks different now with the additions of UCLA, USC and Oregon, although they still have a ton of dreck. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Chopper

[billfromlaketravis 11328]

1 minute ago, BigHornedLurker said:

One thought I have running in my mind I'd hoe do you seed a new conference if you want to ditch the dead weight.

1. SEC as I understand has no exit fees. Is this confirmed ? 

2. Could ND be the seed to align around what happens next ? 

 

 

The Big Ten has to wait out Notre Dame now. But I assumed that a week ago. 
 

Hopefully, Iger gets a favorable outcome from the strikes, and gets off his ass to make Notre Dame a significant offer. 
 

In a perfect world, I’d like to see the SEC add ND and FSU. UNC is an attractive alternative if the first 2 don’t work out. 

[TrashMaster G 17334]

3 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

 

I actually agree with Bilas and his take on realignment. Its insane these colleges are bitching and moaning about transfer portal and NIL while they are simultaneously portalling for cash.

The conferences are realigning themselves in an environment dictated by media contracts and grants of rights. It's stupid to claim there are no "guardrails".

Dumb comparison. 

[Rimbo 25705]

9 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

I just learned that you can’t get a good education at Cal Berkeley.   Guessing some cr undertones are waiting to burst

I mean, who knew, right? I only have relatives and friends who went there and to Stanford. Seems like I needed the opinions of a few people who never even set foot in the state to correct my misconceptions!

[Trey3216 15321]

2 hours ago, Pancho said:

This is one of the dumbest, most uneducated posts in this thread.

He ain’t completely wrong 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Trey3216

[bullet 1596]

17 minutes ago, Hurtlocker said:

Or land an hour away in Harrisonburg.   Hell, you could land in LAX and take an hour to get to the Rose Bowl.

You could land in downtown Pasadena and take an hour to get to the Rose Bowl!

[tonedeaf 56]

4 hours ago, WBT said:

Can we kick out cougar high and cincinnati and just stay in the Big 12?

Baylor?

[gatormarc 904]

13 minutes ago, BigHornedLurker said:

One thought I have running in my mind I'd hoe do you seed a new conference if you want to ditch the dead weight.

1. SEC as I understand has no exit fees. Is this confirmed ? 

SEC does have exit fees now: $30-$45M. They were added after some additional disbursements related to COVID.

Edited August 5, 2023 by gatormarc

[BurntOrange&White 39268]

4 hours ago, WBT said:

Can we kick out cougar high and cincinnati and just stay in the Big 12?

Absolutely stupid and brain dead post.