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Wulaw Horn

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John Daly used to play our local club fairly regularly because he was buddies with one of the members that played semi-pro for a number of years. The stories about the bets they would make and the crap they would get into on the golf course were epic. I do some work for a few different players in different leagues and from what I have seen pro and even semi-pro golfers take competitiveness and the want to win at everything to a whole different level.

As far as the LIV discussion, it’s clear at this point that the PGA has been screwing over a lot of their players for years. Maybe something like this will get them to make adjustments that benefit their players top to bottom. The format of the new deal is dumb, but golf is also so traditionalist that maybe this will throw a wrench in things and get them to look at things differently.

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11 hours ago, Wulaw Horn said:

 

Also- maybe everyone who crucified Phil for saying the tour is incredibly greedy should consider that the second it was in their interest to do so they immediately found another $250,000,000 in prize money for the top guys, without breaking a sweat.  

To me- this says three things:

1) The tour had the money all the time and was hoarding it

 

But but but he's doing business with the Saudis....OMG OMG.

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4 hours ago, Revolution512 said:

As predicted, we find out quickly the PGA can pay more. The folks pointing out the PGA Tour has been slow to respond to LIV are 100% accurate. This has been coming for two years, the Tour gets what it deserves here.

yep, the pga 'suddenly' has this money for 8 extra high $ events !!!

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6 hours ago, tx 3 putt said:

yep, the pga 'suddenly' has this money for 8 extra high $ events !!!

Not just that but they are getting rid of the stupid wraparound schedule. 
I’m sure the top players hated that. It meant they had to play a fair amount in the fall, getting rid of their off season for no good reason, or show up in Hawaii or San Diego way behind the 8 ball. 

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2 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Not just that but they are getting rid of the stupid wraparound schedule. 
I’m sure the top players hated that. It meant they had to play a fair amount in the fall, getting rid of their off season for no good reason, or show up in Hawaii or San Diego way behind the 8 ball. 

Well they are going to have to play in the 8 extra events, and some of those will be in the fall.
It will be interesting to see how this affects the Ryder Cup and Presidents Cup, which make huge money. Also I'm presuming that courses that host LIV events will not be in the PGA, Euro/DP, major rotations. And not trying to make a turn to the CR side, but it interesting that 2 of this years events are at Trump courses (which had lost events for CR reasons).
 

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4 minutes ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

It's gotta be a multiyear commitment attached to the cash. There's no way that's just for one year. 

4yr for DJ according to this...

https://thespun.com/more/golf/dustin-johnson-reveals-length-of-liv-golf-contract

Dustin Johnson has already resigned from the PGA Tour and announced his commitment to LIV Golf. However, the public wasn't aware about the length of his contract with the Saudi-backed league. 

On Friday, the two-time major champion revealed that he has committed to four years of LIV Golf events.  This makes sense because The Telegraph recently reported that Johnson was paid $125 million to join LIV Golf. It never really made sense for him to make all that for just eight total events. 

By agreeing to a long-term contract with Johnson, LIV Golf is trying to prove that it's not going away anytime soon. 

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7 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

does LIV make the players do pro-am's and other such stuff during the week? or can these guys just roll up Friday AM like Daly with a diet coke and a pack of smokes and tee off?

Thursday. For some reason they do Thursday- Saturday. Not sure why. 
No idea on the proams. They were playing with the Saudi guys in London but as there are no sponsors currently… who knows going forward. 

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10 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

Thursday. For some reason they do Thursday- Saturday. Not sure why. 
No idea on the proams. They were playing with the Saudi guys in London but as there are no sponsors currently… who knows going forward. 

yeah forgot Thurs-Sat.  what a gig.

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5 hours ago, Wally Fairway said:

Portland field announced (with 3 players to be named at a later date)

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from 

 

They going to let #119 play in the Saudi tournament?  Normal Thais can't get a visa because a housekeeper stole some jewels from one of the palaces once.

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4 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

 

What a shit sandwich product...

It’s their second tournament. They have 8 top 50 guys, allegedly 3 more big names coming, 8 or 10 more guys that are past champs that people know well and find kind of interesting, and 20 anonymous dudes they are working on replacing 1 or 2 or 3 at a time.  The PGA Tour has all their big guns pointed against them. It’s not a shit product or the tour wouldn’t be in mortal terror. I don’t know that they will become the premier  place to play, or find a coexistence that works for them with the tour, but with the way the dominos are falling right now I’d put it 1 out of 3 that they might get there. 

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1 hour ago, Felix said:

I don't give a fuck who goes I won't watch it.  Tradition means something in golf and while I don't blame anyone for taking the money, I'll be damned if I contribute to it in any way.

Tradition means something in all sports, but money has a way of changing it.
Baseball used to be 2 teams make the playoffs and it was the World Series, then the LCS, the LDS, and now the play in games. Pitchers used to hit. All changes due to $$$
Football has extended the regular season and playoffs; all for $$$$
Hockey 7 teams now in Canada and 7 in CA, FL and TX, plus one in that winter wonderland of LV. Playoffs, and more playoffs all because of $$$
Basketball little to no player loyalty (team loyalty either) players/teams looking to put together a championship unit for a year (mostly unsuccessful) 
College sports longer season, more playoffs/bowl games - and NIL $$$$$$$$$$ 

Not sure why golf would/should be any different - and the EuroTour already sold their name to DP (Dubai Port World), though it is a distant second in golf tours (maybe third). For enough money the PGA tour would sell it's soul (or maybe it already has). Hell they checked the couch cushions and found an extra $100 million for next years events. They are talking tradition, and using the link to past, but they sponsor no majors, and apparently have been raking it in for decades. 
I'll watch it, I love golf - but it will be interesting to see who owns the rights to named events? Could the family of Arnold Palmer disassociated with the PGA Tour and become an LIV or DP tour event (I have no idea how or if that could work) but it will be interesting to see if LIV tries to create the Gary Player Open, because he'd take the money (and allow you to kick your ball up to twice in a round)

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None of the things you mention reduced competitiveness in the sports you cite.  In fact, I would suggest that all increased the competitive nature of their sports and allows more money for more players while the owners continued to benefit.  LIV is entirely different. It's a worse product that limits player opportunity and reduces competition.

Not to mention it's entire reason for existence isn't to grow the game, but to satisfy one mans ego and provide positive press for a bunch of unmitigated scum.  I may have to eat some shit from Saudi Arabia because they have a product we all need, but I sure as shit don't have to support this and I'll stop watching golf before I watch this.

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52 minutes ago, Felix said:

None of the things you mention reduced competitiveness in the sports you cite.  In fact, I would suggest that all increased the competitive nature of their sports and allows more money for more players while the owners continued to benefit.  LIV is entirely different. It's a worse product that limits player opportunity and reduces competition.

Not to mention it's entire reason for existence isn't to grow the game, but to satisfy one mans ego and provide positive press for a bunch of unmitigated scum.  I may have to eat some shit from Saudi Arabia because they have a product we all need, but I sure as shit don't have to support this and I'll stop watching golf before I watch this.

It only limits player opportunity because the PGA Tour won't let them play both, which is why the PGA Tour just announced they had found some more money in the couch cushions.

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4 hours ago, Felix said:

None of the things you mention reduced competitiveness in the sports you cite.  In fact, I would suggest that all increased the competitive nature of their sports and allows more money for more players while the owners continued to benefit.  LIV is entirely different. It's a worse product that limits player opportunity and reduces competition.

Not to mention it's entire reason for existence isn't to grow the game, but to satisfy one mans ego and provide positive press for a bunch of unmitigated scum.  I may have to eat some shit from Saudi Arabia because they have a product we all need, but I sure as shit don't have to support this and I'll stop watching golf before I watch this.

Expansion in all sports dilutes the talent and the product, not sure why you think this is any different than the ABA/NBA, AFL/NFL, hockey might be the most diluted.

I don't like it, and currently LIV has no tradition, no history, only $$$$$. It feels like the mafia getting a pro sports franchise, they may have virtually unlimited money to throw at the sport but that alone will not get them a following. I doubt it but time will tell; and they won't want to burn money forever - but 3-5 years, maybe.
And here is the thing, there is a virtually bottomless barrel of golf talent; and as long as guys keep winning on the Korn Ferry tour they will be happy to jump to the PGA tour, and when that kids wins on the PGA tour some might be tempted but I think most will be more like Scottie than like Brooks. 
The top amateurs is another story, they have no status - and Piot jumped as some signing bonus, and guaranteed money in the 54 hole events, but it is more likely than not that he will . I get it is attractive if offered, rather than having to grind hard to get on the KFT. 
Time will tell - but my viewing hours will not be spent on youtube watching Charl beat a field mainly filled with guys I've never heard of.

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1 hour ago, Wally Fairway said:

Expansion in all sports dilutes the talent and the product, not sure why you think this is any different than the ABA/NBA, AFL/NFL, hockey might be the most diluted.

I don't like it, and currently LIV has no tradition, no history, only $$$$$. It feels like the mafia getting a pro sports franchise, they may have virtually unlimited money to throw at the sport but that alone will not get them a following. I doubt it but time will tell; and they won't want to burn money forever - but 3-5 years, maybe.
And here is the thing, there is a virtually bottomless barrel of golf talent; and as long as guys keep winning on the Korn Ferry tour they will be happy to jump to the PGA tour, and when that kids wins on the PGA tour some might be tempted but I think most will be more like Scottie than like Brooks. 
The top amateurs is another story, they have no status - and Piot jumped as some signing bonus, and guaranteed money in the 54 hole events, but it is more likely than not that he will . I get it is attractive if offered, rather than having to grind hard to get on the KFT. 
Time will tell - but my viewing hours will not be spent on youtube watching Charl beat a field mainly filled with guys I've never heard of.

Agreed. I’m not watching any of the action because The guys over there are pricks I dont like, internationals I don’t like, and people I’ve never heard of. 
but, I’m fascinated by the disruption to the sport and hope it shakes into something cool. 

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Spoiler

Pierceson Coody, grandson of Masters champion Charles Coody, prepared for his third Korn Ferry start as a professional this week the same way he had prepared for the first two: by spending 8 to 10 hours a day playing and practicing at the host site, in this case Falmouth (Maine) Country Club; bunking in a budget hotel; and dining at humble local establishments. (His culinary highlight in Falmouth: a lobster roll, which he devoured while overlooking the harbor.)

Call it no-frills mini-tour living, with one significant subplot: Coody recently passed on a golden opportunity to leave it all behind. 

About a month ago, Coody, who was then wrapping up his senior year at the University of Texas, turned down what he and his father Kyle described as a “multi-million-dollar” offer from the Saudi-financed LIV Golf Series. The deal would have made Pierceson, who earned $31,125 in his first two KFT starts, an instant millionaire, with a chance to get even richer in LIV’s huge-purse, no-cut events.

But Coody, 22, who earned his Korn Ferry membership by finishing first in the 2022 PGA University Series, said that while signing with LIV would have given him financial security, it also would have taken something away: his lifelong dream of playing on the PGA Tour.

“I might be sitting on my couch with millions in my bank account watching my friends play on the PGA Tour, and that would have been devastating,” Coody said.NEWS

“I had people ask me in college if I had been contacted by the LIV tour and I said, ‘No, no, no,'” he added. “When it actually happened, it was easier to say no than I would have imagined.”

LIV’s recruitment of Coody underscores just how aggressively the upstart league — which this week announced its latest signees, Brooks Koepka and Abe Ancer — is courting players of all ages and abilities. LIV has stalwarts like Dustin Johnson and Phil Mickelson, but it also has locked up less proven talents, like the reigning U.S. Amateur champion, 23-year-old James Piot.

Coody said he never talked directly to LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman or any other LIV officials during the negotiations; all communication was handled by Mike Chisum, the Coody brothers’ Plano, Texas-based agent, who passed along LIV’s offer to Kyle.

Chisum declined to be interviewed for this story. A LIV spokesperson also declined to comment other than to say, “We have been actively identifying next generation talent.”

Coody said the first call from LIV to Chisum came in early May as Coody and his college teammates were preparing to play in the NCAA Regionals after finishing third in the Big 12 tournament.

The LIV proposal included a multi-million dollar signing bonus in exchange for a two-year commitment, Coody said. Also included, Coody said, were all travel expenses to tournaments this year and next, plus guaranteed prize money regardless of where he finished in any event.

Coody said he was given 12 days to decide on the offer.

Norman also requested Coody’s cell-phone number so he could pitch Coody personally.

“I shut that down in a hurry,” said Kyle, who also played golf for the University of Texas before testing his game in the pro ranks.

Kyle said LIV officials later tried to sweeten the pot. If Pierceson agreed to sign with the league, Kyle said, LIV would also extend an offer, for a different amount, to Pierceson’s twin brother, Parker, who also was a University of Texas standout and now plays on the PGA Tour Canada.

“Coming in early May while they were getting ready for NCAA Regionals and trying to graduate, I thought it was a huge distraction,” Kyle said of LIV’s advances. “I told Pierceson if you play good golf, the money will take care of itself.

“It may sound strange to say, but turning down millions of dollars was the best thing he could do for his career.”

Pierceson said he and his father jotted down the pros and cons of the lucrative offer while making a final decision before the NCAA Championship, in late May, which Texas ended up winning.

“Seeing that kind of money was kind of a wow moment for me,” Pierceson said. “It was a crazy amount of money, but I love the American tour. I never saw myself as a LIV golfer, but a PGA Tour golfer.”

Pierceson said he took comfort from his close friends and North Texas role models, Will Zalatoris, Scottie Scheffler and Jordan Spieth, all of whom have remained committed to the PGA Tour.

“I know all of those guys and if they believe in the PGA Tour and believe what it stands for and what they’re doing, then I think I made the right decision,” he said.

Pierceson Coody, the former University of Texas star, said LIV Golf made him a life-changing offer. Here’s why he passed on it.

 

Good for Pierceson

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1 hour ago, field said:
  Reveal hidden contents

Pierceson Coody, grandson of Masters champion Charles Coody, prepared for his third Korn Ferry start as a professional this week the same way he had prepared for the first two: by spending 8 to 10 hours a day playing and practicing at the host site, in this case Falmouth (Maine) Country Club; bunking in a budget hotel; and dining at humble local establishments. (His culinary highlight in Falmouth: a lobster roll, which he devoured while overlooking the harbor.)

Call it no-frills mini-tour living, with one significant subplot: Coody recently passed on a golden opportunity to leave it all behind. 

About a month ago, Coody, who was then wrapping up his senior year at the University of Texas, turned down what he and his father Kyle described as a “multi-million-dollar” offer from the Saudi-financed LIV Golf Series. The deal would have made Pierceson, who earned $31,125 in his first two KFT starts, an instant millionaire, with a chance to get even richer in LIV’s huge-purse, no-cut events.

But Coody, 22, who earned his Korn Ferry membership by finishing first in the 2022 PGA University Series, said that while signing with LIV would have given him financial security, it also would have taken something away: his lifelong dream of playing on the PGA Tour.

“I might be sitting on my couch with millions in my bank account watching my friends play on the PGA Tour, and that would have been devastating,” Coody said.NEWS

“I had people ask me in college if I had been contacted by the LIV tour and I said, ‘No, no, no,'” he added. “When it actually happened, it was easier to say no than I would have imagined.”

LIV’s recruitment of Coody underscores just how aggressively the upstart league — which this week announced its latest signees, Brooks Koepka and Abe Ancer — is courting players of all ages and abilities. LIV has stalwarts like Dustin Johnson and Phil Mickelson, but it also has locked up less proven talents, like the reigning U.S. Amateur champion, 23-year-old James Piot.

Coody said he never talked directly to LIV Golf CEO Greg Norman or any other LIV officials during the negotiations; all communication was handled by Mike Chisum, the Coody brothers’ Plano, Texas-based agent, who passed along LIV’s offer to Kyle.

Chisum declined to be interviewed for this story. A LIV spokesperson also declined to comment other than to say, “We have been actively identifying next generation talent.”

Coody said the first call from LIV to Chisum came in early May as Coody and his college teammates were preparing to play in the NCAA Regionals after finishing third in the Big 12 tournament.

The LIV proposal included a multi-million dollar signing bonus in exchange for a two-year commitment, Coody said. Also included, Coody said, were all travel expenses to tournaments this year and next, plus guaranteed prize money regardless of where he finished in any event.

Coody said he was given 12 days to decide on the offer.

Norman also requested Coody’s cell-phone number so he could pitch Coody personally.

“I shut that down in a hurry,” said Kyle, who also played golf for the University of Texas before testing his game in the pro ranks.

Kyle said LIV officials later tried to sweeten the pot. If Pierceson agreed to sign with the league, Kyle said, LIV would also extend an offer, for a different amount, to Pierceson’s twin brother, Parker, who also was a University of Texas standout and now plays on the PGA Tour Canada.

“Coming in early May while they were getting ready for NCAA Regionals and trying to graduate, I thought it was a huge distraction,” Kyle said of LIV’s advances. “I told Pierceson if you play good golf, the money will take care of itself.

“It may sound strange to say, but turning down millions of dollars was the best thing he could do for his career.”

Pierceson said he and his father jotted down the pros and cons of the lucrative offer while making a final decision before the NCAA Championship, in late May, which Texas ended up winning.

“Seeing that kind of money was kind of a wow moment for me,” Pierceson said. “It was a crazy amount of money, but I love the American tour. I never saw myself as a LIV golfer, but a PGA Tour golfer.”

Pierceson said he took comfort from his close friends and North Texas role models, Will Zalatoris, Scottie Scheffler and Jordan Spieth, all of whom have remained committed to the PGA Tour.

“I know all of those guys and if they believe in the PGA Tour and believe what it stands for and what they’re doing, then I think I made the right decision,” he said.

Pierceson Coody, the former University of Texas star, said LIV Golf made him a life-changing offer. Here’s why he passed on it.

 

Good for Pierceson

 

ballsy. this is where LIV can cut deep into the PGA, poaching the younger players. 

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19 hours ago, dcar00 said:

It only limits player opportunity because the PGA Tour won't let them play both, which is why the PGA Tour just announced they had found some more money in the couch cushions.

Gary Player said the LIV's stance is that you can't do both either. You really think they wanna pay someone $150m and watch them play somewhere else? The money....it has strings attached.

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1 hour ago, Pam Cummings said:

Gary Player said the LIV's stance is that you can't do both either. You really think they wanna pay someone $150m and watch them play somewhere else? The money....it has strings attached.

Well there are only a few LIV events, and they will be allowed to play the majors. So yeah I would expect the LIV to want their guys to go out an win on another tour and bring some eyeballs back to the LIV. 
I'm certain they wouldn't allow playing in events that are the same time as LIV events, but who really knows what the Saudi's want out of this investment. Yeah I've heard the term sports washing, but what does that get them? Are the jealous of the Qatar World Cup? The Dubai Power Tour (aka EuroTour)

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3 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Gary Player said the LIV's stance is that you can't do both either. You really think they wanna pay someone $150m and watch them play somewhere else? The money....it has strings attached.

so LIV says they can't play PGA events when a LIV event is not scheduled?

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1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

LIV will have 10 exhibitions next year and 14 the year after.  They're all over the world too so playing many PGA events would be difficult.

PGA says you have to play 15 events minimum and that includes the majors.  so if you qualify for the majors you could play 11 other PGA events and the 10 or 14 LIV events.

of course, the guys lower down the list have to keep their card, so they would have to consider that(or what the rules are to keep the card and not go back to Q school). not sure what the average number of events a PGA pro plays a year.

LIV probably gets you enough money to schedule private jets when needed.

The players could probably figure it out if the PGA Tour let them play both.

 

 

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20 minutes ago, field said:

 

 

it doesn't really matter because the PGA tour won't let them anyway.  If they don't play 15 they lose voting rights and then the Tour guys left can vote in a new rule that the PGA Tour lifetime status is only good if you play a certain number of events.  Mickelson has Lifetime and I think Johnson does too.  Not sure on Garcia as he has 20+ wins  if you add Euro Tour wins.  Koepka and BDC do not. 

Senior Tour could do something as well and force someone like Mickelson(end of his career) to think twice.

Anyway, there are ways the Tour could make it difficult without outright saying you can't play.

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On 6/25/2022 at 10:38 AM, Jive Turkey said:

I can’t stand this guy. He was obnoxious at the NCAA tournament. He’s from Spain. Sergio is his mentor. Chip off the old fist pumping block. 

 


wolf is going to follow. This how you cut into the pga, poaching the young players. 
 

not sure coody’s (from above) background, but lot of young players would like guranteed money and not being broke 

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28 minutes ago, tx 3 putt said:


wolf is going to follow. This how you cut into the pga, poaching the young players. 
 

not sure coody’s (from above) background, but lot of young players would like guranteed money and not being broke 

These young guys don’t really have anything to lose. It’s not like the LIV guys are going to get lifetime bans. So the LIV folds after a few years, they get to bank a ton of easy money instead of grinding to make cuts. And they come back to basically the same place they left off with a pile of cash in the bank. 

Wolff has missed 6 of his last 10 cuts and finished T25, T40, T60, T61. Hes dropped from 12th to 77th in the OWGR the last two years. He’s earned $1.4 million this year and probably got offered 10x that to jump. 

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betting on the young players only works if those young players are able to get in the majors and win some.  otherwise nobody will ever know if they're actually good or not.

NLU said on the podcast today that MBS and Trump are rumored to be in Portland for the event this week. 

Edited by 4th&Five
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1 hour ago, 4th&Five said:

betting on the young players only works if those young players are able to get in the majors and win some.  otherwise nobody will ever know if they're actually good or not.

Exactly.  No one watches college/amateur golf and the young guys are going to struggle to qualify for the majors and have almost no chance to qualify for the Masters. 

LIV will definitely tweak/improve its product since the current structure is awful but it will always struggle in the US given the number of international events and players (most of whom are has beens).

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