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Surly kids who can't get into UT


texasdago

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I was going to say when someone mentioned Mizzou being hit hard lately, their claim to fame has long been the J school and with the complete demolition of making a strong career in Journalism that started the last 15 years, it's not much of a draw.

Pivot to strategic communications and media planning. Nobody from that school is an actual journalist anymore.
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Plus (you said you were in FISD), the trend the last decade at this point, because none of the smart but not top 6% boys in the Frisco/Plano area can get into UT anymore, there is a ton of out of state exodus. So all your boys friends are going to Bama and Arky and OU, etc.
I had the same conversations with my kids who were FISD. The majority of their class who weren't top 6% who went to public school, went to A&M or out of state (Ark, tons of Bama, OU) rather than go to Tech or UNT or something like that.
And I sympathize. I wouldn't get into UT today if I was a senior, but would still want the college experience I got at UT with Greek life and football games and being able to party but also get a degree that can get a decent paying job.

Can concur as a PISD parent of ‘23 and ‘24 grads.
My ‘24 wants to go to UT, checks all his boxes but unless there’s a miracle, he’s not getting in. Kid has great GPA, a ton of AP credit but not 6%. He has applied so fingers crossed.
The only other school in state he’ll consider is UT Dallas because of their CS program.
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For my older kids, we started "informal" college visits after 8th grade year.  In most/all cases, the younger ones tagged along.  As a consequence, all of them got to see/feel/etc. the environments of places like Texas, Texas A&M, SMU, TCU, UTD, etc.  I recommend gettning started before junior year.

My youngest graduated HS in 2023.  Because of COVID, we did not (or could not) visit any colleges from Mar'20 - May'22.  As a result, he did not have a really good feel for any of the places - and a 2-day whirlwind visit of colleges will not often do the trick.  He narrowed his selections to Texas A&M, Purdue, and RPI, wanting to major in CS.  He did not want to go to UT.  Narrowed further to Purdue and RPI (because of the way A&M handles "freshman engineering") and ultimately chose Purdue.  We'll see how he likes that decision in February...

We were tried to nudge a little toward SMU (closer to home, smaller school, decent ECE program, strong Dallas area internships, etc), but he did not have the same feeling.  Did not want ECE and the SMU CS dept has been a little disorganized as of late.  Also, he was turned off by the fact that some of the less capable, more foolish kids from his school were going to SMU.

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On 9/28/2023 at 3:22 PM, Samson's Wig said:

The only thing to understand is that we have a lot of engineers who post here, and like most engineers, they can't fathom that any other educational path has any merit. It's fucking weird, frankly, but myopia can impact anyone even if it seems like an engineer-specific trait.   The fact that 99.9% of engineers work for someone who is not an engineer has never dawned on them for some reason.

You had already received many kudos for this post, but I wanted to reinforce this.  And to say, "guilty as charged."  

There are many contributions to this.  First, engineers make decent money right out of college.  Second, most employers have very good benefits.  Third, engineering professions have relatively low unemployment rates.  Fourth, most have parents w/ technical backgrounds and we nudge them in a direction we understand.  Yes, myopia.  Edited to add: for the most part, there is a clear and calculable ROI on the cost of college.

Also, more than most other disciplines, classes in HS and college (esp. in programming) give someone a feel for what they will be doing at age 25.  High school (or even lower division college) econ, history, and english classes do not do that for a business, psych, or econ profession.  The programming and intro engineering classes do (Calc classes notwithstanding.)

Edited by boilerhorn
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Do schools still do things like "Round Up Weekend" that UT used to do (and still might do, for all I know)? I remember being 17 years old, driving to Austin with friends and no parent supervision, and partying in West Campus and sleeping on the floor of my brothers friend at Towers to get the feel for UT. And that was a common thing as a sort of pre-rush and get a feel for the campus before orientation.

That feels like an impossible thing these days, with liabilities and underage issues and how parents are much more protective. Heck, I wouldn't let my 17 year old do that.

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8 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Do schools still do things like "Round Up Weekend" that UT used to do (and still might do, for all I know)? I remember being 17 years old, driving to Austin with friends and no parent supervision, and partying in West Campus and sleeping on the floor of my brothers friend at Towers to get the feel for UT. And that was a common thing as a sort of pre-rush and get a feel for the campus before orientation.

That feels like an impossible thing these days, with liabilities and underage issues and how parents are much more protective. Heck, I wouldn't let my 17 year old do that.

I have great memories of my college years and, yeah, I wouldn't let my kids do half that stuff either.

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9 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can only assume the utter mythology about engineers is echoed similarly among other professions.  I mean, WTF?

Yeah, I don't really agree with that post.  I'm fairly proud of the engineering degree, it was fucking hard work.  Like harder than most UT undergrads put in, by a substantial measure.

And yeah, engineers get jobs that pay well off the bat.  But it's not for everyone and I don't mean just smart/dumb.  It takes a particular aptitude to survive an engineering curriculum.

And, I recognized that I probably didn't love the engineering career path, which is why I went to law school.  I didn't think I was cut out for a technical ladder and didn't want to go into management.  What I failed to realize is that everyone is in management, regardless of job title.  And as a sort of 50/50 left/right brain person, that combination is sufficiently rare that I probably would have done pretty well as an engineer.

 

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10 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can only assume the utter mythology about engineers is echoed similarly among other professions.  I mean, WTF?

The aggregate mid-career earnings of engineering is still the top of the majors list. 

I get that there's variance in individual outcomes, and an engineering degree is not a guaranteed ticket to the beach earning 20%, and exaggerating things for effect.... but engineers report to engineering leads/managers, who report to directors of engineering, and so on in a cushy corporate chain.  It was a terrible attempt at a slam dunk.

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13 minutes ago, 52-80 said:

The aggregate mid-career earnings of engineering is still the top of the majors list. 

I get that there's variance in individual outcomes, and an engineering degree is not a guaranteed ticket to the beach earning 20%, and exaggerating things for effect.... but engineers report to engineering leads/managers, who report to directors of engineering, and so on in a cushy corporate chain.  It was a terrible attempt at a slam dunk.

I think what he was trying to say is that in most organizations, the technical and engineering minds are the coal that powers the locomotive, but rarely is a pure play engineering/technical leader going to be on the executive leadership team or board of directors (without first pivoting to a more business and management track first). The only exceptions being engineering firms, probably.

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11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I can only assume the utter mythology about engineers is echoed similarly among other professions.  I mean, WTF?

Not the lawyers.  There's nothing mythological about our superiority.  

10 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I climbed the technical ladder essentially as far as possible, making it clear that I didn't want to go into management . . . and then I got put into management.  

So you're on the Peter Gibbons plan?

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On 10/2/2023 at 8:13 AM, boilerhorn said:

For my older kids, we started "informal" college visits after 8th grade year.  In most/all cases, the younger ones tagged along.  As a consequence, all of them got to see/feel/etc. the environments of places like Texas, Texas A&M, SMU, TCU, UTD, etc.  I recommend gettning started before junior year.

My youngest graduated HS in 2023.  Because of COVID, we did not (or could not) visit any colleges from Mar'20 - May'22.  As a result, he did not have a really good feel for any of the places - and a 2-day whirlwind visit of colleges will not often do the trick.  He narrowed his selections to Texas A&M, Purdue, and RPI, wanting to major in CS.  He did not want to go to UT.  Narrowed further to Purdue and RPI (because of the way A&M handles "freshman engineering") and ultimately chose Purdue.  We'll see how he likes that decision in February...

We were tried to nudge a little toward SMU (closer to home, smaller school, decent ECE program, strong Dallas area internships, etc), but he did not have the same feeling.  Did not want ECE and the SMU CS dept has been a little disorganized as of late.  Also, he was turned off by the fact that some of the less capable, more foolish kids from his school were going to SMU.

I'm not sure you are, but I wouldn't be rolling my eyes at the bolded part above. I wasn't sure I was even going to go to college. My mom was by herself, working two jobs, and I honestly wasn't sure I wanted to leave here to be on her own, regardless of the fact I knew she wanted and expected me to go to college. I rushed to apply to college, and UT was the only one I applied to...because I knew that every dumb, stupid, hateable piece of shit at my HS that I held with the utmost contempt fucking LOVED aTm. Espescially the ones that would probably never go there. And I knew I never wanted to be associated with a club that would admit idiots like them. Sometimes instincts work in your favor in that regard, well ahead of you understanding all of the ramifications. 

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11 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I climbed the technical ladder essentially as far as possible, making it clear that I didn't want to go into management . . . and then I got put into management.  I probably should have just angled for the higher payday from the jump.

straight-shooter-upper-management.gif

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2 hours ago, BeardIP said:

I think what he was trying to say is that in most organizations, the technical and engineering minds are the coal that powers the locomotive, but rarely is a pure play engineering/technical leader going to be on the executive leadership team or board of directors (without first pivoting to a more business and management track first). The only exceptions being engineering firms, probably.

No other major has a meaningfully shorter track to BoD/CS. Each tribe have their own reporting chain to climb through. So the obvious fact that engineers power the eng train isnt some demeaning revelation.

His point was terribly made, no matter how generously interpreted.

(im not an eng)

 

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13 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

That so many engineers here can't recognize the use of hyperbole in my post to dramatize the point is a prime example of why every college student should be forced to take some liberal arts courses. It's like talking to Data from Star Trek with you people.

 

page what do you mean GIF

Hyperboles are built on exaggerations, which is a stretching of the truth. 

Saying something utterly dumb and obtuse does not in itself qualify as a hyperbole. 
 

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I'm shocked that a bunch of easily offended engineers are shitting on liberal arts classes and engaging to verbal minutia like a badger with grudge. 

If we don't get some Wapner in here soon there's going to be a bunch of actuarial hobbyists going apeshit. 

Edited by SydneyCarton
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28 minutes ago, Samson's Wig said:

That so many engineers here can't recognize the use of hyperbole in my post to dramatize the point is a prime example of why every college student should be forced to take some liberal arts courses. It's like talking to Data from Star Trek with you people.

Yes, I never took any liberal arts courses.  Or fine arts.  You really nailed my mindset.

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I agree with the liberal arts guys here.

All engineering disciplines pretty much attract a certain kind of myopic person who can't see how a broader education can give the tools that allow for folks to grow outside of a college setting and thereby help them in problems that can't be taught in a classroom.

Other than my Chemical Engineering degree of course as its the hardest discipline that only a select few can get through.

ChE is all wheat and no chaff. 

But their sentiment pretty much rings true for all the other engineering degrees.

Edited by Dnaguy
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2 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

I agree with the liberal arts guys here.

All engineering disciplines pretty much attract a certain kind of myopic person who can't see how a broader education can give the tools that allow for folks to grow outside of a college setting and thereby help them in problems that can't be taught in a classroom.

Other than my Chemical Engineering degree of course as its the hardest discipline that only a select few can get through.

ChE is all wheat and no chaff. 

But their sentiment pretty much rings true for all the other engineering degrees.

Ryan Gosling Clap GIF

 

EDIT TO ADD: Thank you for both undermining the stereotype and showing those sentient bowls of pudding how to properly respond around here.

Edited by Samson's Wig
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3 minutes ago, Dnaguy said:

I agree with the liberal arts guys here.

All engineering disciplines pretty much attract a certain kind of myopic person who can't see how a broader education can give the tools that allow for folks to grow outside of a college setting and thereby help them in problems that can't be taught in a classroom.

Other than my Chemical Engineering degree of course as its the hardest discipline that only a select few can get through.

ChE is all wheat and no chaff. 

But their sentiment pretty much rings true for all the other engineering degrees.

Same except civil.  
 

Who am I kidding, I’m too dumb for thermodynamics.

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14 hours ago, BeardIP said:

I think what he was trying to say is that in most organizations, the technical and engineering minds are the coal that powers the locomotive, but rarely is a pure play engineering/technical leader going to be on the executive leadership team or board of directors (without first pivoting to a more business and management track first). The only exceptions being engineering firms, probably.

I used to work for a chip company with about 3000 employees, at a satellite office.  Our CEO would visit about two times a year and give a little talk.  The best one was him describing his path from new hire engineer to CEO.

He put up an org chart of our company with all the departments and said "This is what I *thought* I was supposed to do" ... and highlighted a line going directly from the bottom to the top.

Then he said "This is what I actually did" and the next slide showed him going all over the company.  Engineering, marketing, working in the factory, supply chain, sales, back to engineering, across to marketing again, and so on.  Everything except the cafeteria.

The rest of the talk was about his different experiences with the company, but he said he could never have been CEO without first having the experience of being in all parts of the company, to see how it fit together.  If your goal is to make it to the top, it helps to have a breadth of experience, wherever you start.

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On 9/29/2023 at 12:07 AM, fattyflattie said:

Had a couple of kids from my high school do that to get into UT back when it was still 10%. Thought they fixed that loophole.  The 3 closest high schools to ours were all pretty big and very poor.  Walked right into the top 10 by renting an apt. 

I’m pretty sure they fixed it. My mom’s realtor said she knew at least two families about 10-15 years ago in Westlake who basically decamped to the hunting lease in South Texas for their senior year to avoid the bloodbath for UT admissions on Westbank Drive.  At least one wasn’t much more than deer camp.  
 

That probably sounds like Heaven to half of you.  Not my bougie East Coast ass. 

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Looks like UC Santa Cruz is creeping up in my daughter's rankings.  Anyone have experience with that school? 

I've been to Santa Cruz twice and I love that area, but from what I'm reading the student body is experiencing a bit of a housing crisis because there's not enough on-campus housing, and very little available off-campus housing that isn't priced beyond a student's means.

I still think she likely winds up at UDub or Oregon, but still gathering as much information I can on the other candidates.  

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7 hours ago, Texas Jeff said:

I used to work for a chip company with about 3000 employees, at a satellite office.  Our CEO would visit about two times a year and give a little talk.  The best one was him describing his path from new hire engineer to CEO.

He put up an org chart of our company with all the departments and said "This is what I *thought* I was supposed to do" ... and highlighted a line going directly from the bottom to the top.

Then he said "This is what I actually did" and the next slide showed him going all over the company.  Engineering, marketing, working in the factory, supply chain, sales, back to engineering, across to marketing again, and so on.  Everything except the cafeteria.

The rest of the talk was about his different experiences with the company, but he said he could never have been CEO without first having the experience of being in all parts of the company, to see how it fit together.  If your goal is to make it to the top, it helps to have a breadth of experience, wherever you start.

That or a parent who owns the company

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1 hour ago, South Austin said:

Looks like UC Santa Cruz is creeping up in my daughter's rankings.  Anyone have experience with that school? 

I've been to Santa Cruz twice and I love that area, but from what I'm reading the student body is experiencing a bit of a housing crisis because there's not enough on-campus housing, and very little available off-campus housing that isn't priced beyond a student's means.

I still think she likely winds up at UDub or Oregon, but still gathering as much information I can on the other candidates.  

I selfishly want my son to seriouisly consider UC San Diego. I don't even know what the specialize in, I assume some kind of marine stuff. Doesn't really matter. Just move to San Diego kid. 

As it relates to your post, sounds like you should move to Santa Cruz. 

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58 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I selfishly want my son to seriouisly consider UC San Diego. I don't even know what the specialize in, I assume some kind of marine stuff. Doesn't really matter. Just move to San Diego kid. 

As it relates to your post, sounds like you should move to Santa Cruz. 

Interestingly enough, as my family is from San Diego, my folks were telling me the stats say that inverse of what happens to cool cities is happening in San Diego. All the cultural and tastemakers and the younger demographic (18-30) are moving OUT of SD and the influx is middle aged and older. I guess it makes sense from a cost of living and real estate perspective, but that's how you turn a cool city into something like Jupiter, FL quick.

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1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

I selfishly want my son to seriouisly consider UC San Diego.

I was pushing UC San Diego hard, and it was on her list for a while, but for some reason has dropped off.  I have family in San Diego and I love that town.  And it's an easy direct flight on SWA.

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51 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Interestingly enough, as my family is from San Diego, my folks were telling me the stats say that inverse of what happens to cool cities is happening in San Diego. All the cultural and tastemakers and the younger demographic (18-30) are moving OUT of SD and the influx is middle aged and older. I guess it makes sense from a cost of living and real estate perspective, but that's how you turn a cool city into something like Jupiter, FL quick.

Yeah, except Florida fucking sucks, and Jupiter doesn't have La Jolla, Coronado Beach, perpetually 60-70 degree weather, and is a good school. 

I realize this is a thread about our kids, but I'm talking about my own fucking wants and desires here, sir. 

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3 hours ago, South Austin said:

Looks like UC Santa Cruz is creeping up in my daughter's rankings.  Anyone have experience with that school? 

I've been to Santa Cruz twice and I love that area, but from what I'm reading the student body is experiencing a bit of a housing crisis because there's not enough on-campus housing, and very little available off-campus housing that isn't priced beyond a student's means.

I still think she likely winds up at UDub or Oregon, but still gathering as much information I can on the other candidates.  

pretty part of the world. Back in the 80s/90s I always knew UC Santa Cruz as the hippie school, with no grades, a banana slug for a mascot, and everyone looked like a member of Camper Van Beethoven -  Which you know, seemed pretty cool to me when i was younger.

I know a lot has changed since then. The admission standards are not outrageous, but i have no idea what the University's strengths are  or what kind of weight a degree from UC Santa Cruz has.

They break the campus into 10 distinct Colleges and as a student you associate yourself with one of them, which gives me the Hogwarts vibe.. Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Slytherin, etc.

Edited by yoladu
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59 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

Interestingly enough, as my family is from San Diego, my folks were telling me the stats say that inverse of what happens to cool cities is happening in San Diego. All the cultural and tastemakers and the younger demographic (18-30) are moving OUT of SD and the influx is middle aged and older. I guess it makes sense from a cost of living and real estate perspective, but that's how you turn a cool city into something like Jupiter, FL quick.

La Jolla is pretty distinct from San Diego itself, so hard to know how much of an impact there would be to a UCSD student there is.

UCSD is not easy to get into. San Diego St Univ would be the alternate.

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39 minutes ago, yoladu said:

La Jolla is pretty distinct from San Diego itself, so hard to know how much of an impact there would be to a UCSD student there is.

UCSD is not easy to get into. San Diego St Univ would be the alternate.

University of San Diego, as I recall, has one of the prettiest campuses in the country and will offer a top student pretty good merit. 

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26 minutes ago, Bateshorn said:

University of San Diego, as I recall, has one of the prettiest campuses in the country and will offer a top student pretty good merit. 

If you're talking nonresident student, and if by "top" student you mean the valedictorian at reputable high school who invented a cure for pancreatic cancer, then yes, I think UC San Diego will offer that kid some pretty decent merit aid.

From everything I've read, UC San Diego is like the other schools in the UC system (all of which are excellent to quite good in most nationwide rankings) in that they can offer generous merit and other financial aid to California residents, but it's extremely hard for nonresidents to get that money, and most are paying full freight for nonresident tuition.  

Say what you want about California, but that state has one of best (if not the best) state university systems, and they take care of their own.  

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1 hour ago, yoladu said:

pretty part of the world. Back in the 80s/90s I always knew UC Santa Cruz as the hippie school, with no grades, a banana slug for a mascot, and everyone looked like a member of Camper Van Beethoven -  Which you know, seemed pretty cool to me when i was younger.

I know a lot has changed since then. The admission standards are not outrageous, but i have no idea what the University's strengths are  or what kind of weight a degree from UC Santa Cruz has.

They break the campus into 10 distinct Colleges and as a student you associate yourself with one of them, which gives me the Hogwarts vibe.. Gryffindor, Hufflepuff, Slytherin, etc.

I believe Rice does something similar as well, no?

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4 hours ago, South Austin said:

Looks like UC Santa Cruz is creeping up in my daughter's rankings.  Anyone have experience with that school? 

I used to fish on a river near Santa Cruz and would occasionally encounter what appeared to be UCSC students.  Based on those experiences, my impression is that UCSC students really like to do psychedelics in the woods.  

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1 hour ago, South Austin said:

If you're talking nonresident student, and if by "top" student you mean the valedictorian at reputable high school who invented a cure for pancreatic cancer, then yes, I think UC San Diego will offer that kid some pretty decent merit aid.

From everything I've read, UC San Diego is like the other schools in the UC system (all of which are excellent to quite good in most nationwide rankings) in that they can offer generous merit and other financial aid to California residents, but it's extremely hard for nonresidents to get that money, and most are paying full freight for nonresident tuition.  

Say what you want about California, but that state has one of best (if not the best) state university systems, and they take care of their own.  

Not UC San Diego. University of San Diego.  Private Catholic College. 

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