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Israel-Hamas war thread


Brisketexan

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Immediately prior to the October 7 terrorist attacks on Israeli civilians, #Hamas had terrible and declining support among Gazans, who saw it and not Israel or Egypt as primarily responsible for widespread poverty. Arab Barometer completed surveys in Gaza on October 6. Among the results:

"Only 16 percent blamed externally imposed economic sanctions" for widespread poverty and food shortages. 31 percent "identified government mismanagement as the primary cause of food insecurity in Gaza."

"Only 40 percent said that freedom of expression was guaranteed to a great or moderate extent, and 68 percent believed that the right to participate in a peaceful protest was not protected or was protected only to a limited extent under Hamas rule."

"73 percent of Gazans favored a peaceful settlement to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. On the eve of Hamas’s October 7 attack, just 20 percent of Gazans favored a military solution that could result in the destruction of the state of Israel." 54 percent of Gazans favored a two-state solution.

Writing in @ForeignAffairs, @AmaneyJamal and  @mdhrobbins of @ArabBarometer, show that in the past Gazans rally around support when Israeli military actions ramp up, as they are now. That's understandable--as is @Israel's need to defend itself and remove Hamas, a governing group that is committed to the eradication of Israel.

I hope that Israel's hunt for Hamas leadership is swift, effective, and targeted in such a way that it allows Gazans and Israelis to reach a lasting peace in the near future.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/israel/what-palestinians-really-think-hamas

 

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11 hours ago, Frank Drebin said:

 

 

The cognitive dissonance around blacks, African Americans or Africans, aggressively advocating for the killing and removal of a group of people based on a perceived genetic difference which makes them view them as less than human is mind bottling.  

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29 minutes ago, Bevo said:

US strikes Syria targeting Iranian proxy forces - news incoming

U.S. military aircraft have carried out strikes in eastern Syria against facilities associated with Iranian-backed militant groups believed to be responsible for more than a dozen rocket and drone attacks on American troops in Iraq and Syria that injured 21 service members, the military said Thursday night.

"Today, at President Biden's direction, U.S. military forces conducted self-defense strikes on two facilities in eastern Syria used by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) and affiliated groups," said Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin in a statement.

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https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/explosion-heard-egyptian-red-sea-town-near-israeli-border-witness-2023-10-27/

 

Missile strikes Egyptian Red Sea town on Israel border

Reuters

October 26, 20239:16 PM CDTUpdated 31 min ago

CAIRO/JERUSALEM, Oct 27 (Reuters) - A missile launched as part of fighting between Hamas militants and Israel struck an Egyptian resort town about 220 km (135 miles) from the Gaza Strip early on Friday, Egypt's Al Qahera News reported, citing sources.

The missile hit a medical facility in Taba, injuring at least six people, Al Qahera TV reported. A witness in Taba confirmed hearing an explosion and seeing smoke rising, but Reuters was not immediately able to identify the blast's source.

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43 minutes ago, rpspeed said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/explosion-heard-egyptian-red-sea-town-near-israeli-border-witness-2023-10-27/

 

Missile strikes Egyptian Red Sea town on Israel border

Reuters

October 26, 20239:16 PM CDTUpdated 31 min ago

CAIRO/JERUSALEM, Oct 27 (Reuters) - A missile launched as part of fighting between Hamas militants and Israel struck an Egyptian resort town about 220 km (135 miles) from the Gaza Strip early on Friday, Egypt's Al Qahera News reported, citing sources.

The missile hit a medical facility in Taba, injuring at least six people, Al Qahera TV reported. A witness in Taba confirmed hearing an explosion and seeing smoke rising, but Reuters was not immediately able to identify the blast's source.

Every time you post, hotshot, I can't help but think...I should sex medicine-ball girl.

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29 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

More on the strike

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/eu-calls-humanitarian-pauses-gaza-aid-israel-raids-enclave-2023-10-26/

So they used a couple of precision bombs from a couple of F-16s against a couple of ammo/weapon dumps, and Biden sent a direct message to the Ayatollah and the Pentagon made sure everybody in the world knew that we did it.

I'm going to guess that next time, it's not going to be some ammo dumps, and it'll be more than a couple of F-16s dropping a couple of bombs.  

And it may not be limited to Syria.

Since they used drones and missiles (or tried to) against our troops, and this is probably their one warning from us, Putin may want to get on the horn to Iran and tell them to back down, since it would be a real shame if we went after their drone and missile factories that were producing munitions potentially used against American troops and that were keeping Russia in the fight against Ukraine.  We didn't deploy F-35s to the Persian Gulf for shits and giggles.

Iran is incredibly weak rn.

Russia is completely engaged (and losing), as well as needing help from Iran to stay viable. Strategically and politicly, carpet bombing the fuck out of Iran, the root cause of all this shit for 20 years, makes a lot of sense compared to the carnage these two counties cause year after year. 

Time to acknowledge bad actors and fuck them up. Waiting helps no one and hurts more and more people. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

it would be a real shame if we went after their drone and missile factories that were producing munitions potentially used against American troops and that were keeping Russia in the fight against Ukraine.  We didn't deploy F-35s to the Persian Gulf for shits and giggles.

Those factories should already be 2 foot tall piles of dust.

Killing the supply chain for Iranian drones and missiles is much cheaper and more effective than trying to knock all the missiles and drones down once launched against our troops, Israel and Ukraine. We also need to add much more severe sanctions against anyone supplying the Iranian/Russian missile and drone programs, as well as add substantial prison time for any executives from Western companies that attempt to circumvent sanctions. Further, we need to figure out what we can do to aid the Iranian people in overthrowing the mullahs. 

Proportional responses don't work with fuckwads like Iranian leadership. We can escalate WAY past what the mullahs can. It's time to remind them. 

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2 hours ago, statsman said:

The last thing the WH wants in 2023 is a spike in energy prices (would hurt politically, and also help Russia). I suspect that affects the severity of the responses to Iran’s troublemaking

We've been quickly building up in (and just outside of the) the Persian Gulf, both the Air Force (Saudi Arabia/Kuwait/etc.) and the Navy/Marines (including a Marine Expeditionary Unit in the Persian Gulf), and we've recently been sailing through the Strait of Hormuz with upper-ranking French and British officers (I think admirals) on board one of our ships, and we are doing all of this very publicly, and on top of stopping/boarding Iranian ships and confiscating military goods prior to this month.  

We're not quite into a 'The Guns of August' situation, but within the last month, you had Hamas invade and slaughter Israels, you have Iranian-backed groups ramping up attacks against American forces, you have Russia's Foreign Ministry publicly announcing that they are hosting a high-level Hamas delegation all the while Iran is Russia's closest effective ally against Ukraine (sorry Belarus, you ain't supplying shit), you have US Navy and Saudi forces shooting down missiles and drones launched from Iranian-backed forces in Yemen and pointed at Israel.

Me thinks at the very least, we are going to run interference for Israel and keep Iran from entering the chat, whether directly or indirectly (supplies such as drones/missiles).

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Good point, and my comment about gas prices- there is an alliance of Iran, Russia and China, and of them- Russia wants higher gas prices. Russia supports Iran in their efforts to start trouble. 
 
Know who else wants higher gas prices? The 12th Man Foundation. Add them to the axis? (No CR)

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5 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Fuck these assholes for making me agree with Frank Drebin on anything.  Seriously.  I am told over and over and over that the Palestinians are not Hamas, that Palestinians do not support Hamas.....and over and over, the groups that speak for Palestinians make it very plain and clear that they sure as shit support Hamas and what they did.

I'd love to sympathize with the Palestinian people and their cause (broadly, at least -- all people should live without fear, and with an opportunity for a safe and good life).....but I can't get there.  I just can't.  Not with this shit over and over and over and over.  If your cause is inextricably entwined with being in favor of committing purposeful crimes against humanity, and celebrating/glorifying (the word "glory" is right there on the building, guys) those crimes.....nope.  I'm out.

Doesn't mean I'll excuse any war crimes committed by Israel.  But it means that I have little sympathy or support for the Palestinian people or cause.  I'm trying.  I really am.  But nope.  Can't do it.

This.  I'm absolutely disgusted with what is going on right now in this country.  Especially after sitting with a jewish client and listening to his personal experiences in New York.  I'll stop it there because otherwise will probably get too Cloak Roomy but it's really disappointing that there isn't more backlash.  How the fuck did tacitly supporting fucking terrorists become "PC"?

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22 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Fuck these assholes for making me agree with Frank Drebin on anything.  Seriously.  I am told over and over and over that the Palestinians are not Hamas, that Palestinians do not support Hamas.....and over and over, the groups that speak for Palestinians make it very plain and clear that they sure as shit support Hamas and what they did.

I'd love to sympathize with the Palestinian people and their cause (broadly, at least -- all people should live without fear, and with an opportunity for a safe and good life).....but I can't get there.  I just can't.  Not with this shit over and over and over and over.  If your cause is inextricably entwined with being in favor of committing purposeful crimes against humanity, and celebrating/glorifying (the word "glory" is right there on the building, guys) those crimes.....nope.  I'm out.

Doesn't mean I'll excuse any war crimes committed by Israel.  But it means that I have little sympathy or support for the Palestinian people or cause.  I'm trying.  I really am.  But nope.  Can't do it.

Well this is where we are in this country. Everything Israel has done to Palestinians over the last 75 years is completely excused. Any criticism of that conduct leads to accusations of being a genocidal anti-Semite. The post above with the professor's slides showing colonization and settlement expansion by Israel made the Jewish student feel "unsafe" being near an "anti-Semite." There may have been more inflammatory statements made in that context, but the slides were just showing true history of the region and imposition of the State of Israel by Britain and other western powers and Israeli disregard for even those borders.

Can we at least agree that anti-Semitism in Europe before WWII (basically hatred for Jews for being "outsiders" by way of diaspora and succeeding in business among other things) is very different than Palestinian hatred for Israel (a country of foreigners imposed upon occupied land)? Because of Hamas, you have no sympathy for Palestinians with zero regard to the circumstances that lead Palestinians to hate the circumstances imposed upon them. I'll never understand this concept. And if I ever posted something like this on Facebook I'd probably be fired.

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10 minutes ago, Skipper said:

This.  I'm absolutely disgusted with what is going on right now in this country.  Especially after sitting with a jewish client and listening to his personal experiences in New York.  I'll stop it there because otherwise will probably get too Cloak Roomy but it's really disappointing that there isn't more backlash.  How the fuck did tacitly supporting fucking terrorists become "PC"?

I work with a guy who's dad immigrated here. The dad is a Greek Turk. My coworker was bitching to me about us financing Israel's military to kill Gazans. He said he felt he couldn't vote for any Democrats or Republicans because of their support for Israel. For a lot of people of Middle Eastern Muslim ancestry, they generally see it as similar to Native Americans fighting white settlers. We can disagree with them, but that's their viewpoint.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/27/michigan-arab-american-voters-biden-israel

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15 minutes ago, 'stache said:

Well this is where we are in this country. Everything Israel has done to Palestinians over the last 75 years is completely excused. Any criticism of that conduct leads to accusations of being a genocidal anti-Semite. The post above with the professor's slides showing colonization and settlement expansion by Israel made the Jewish student feel "unsafe" being near an "anti-Semite." There may have been more inflammatory statements made in that context, but the slides were just showing true history of the region and imposition of the State of Israel by Britain and other western powers and Israeli disregard for even those borders.

Can we at least agree that anti-Semitism in Europe before WWII (basically hatred for Jews for being "outsiders" by way of diaspora and succeeding in business among other things) is very different than Palestinian hatred for Israel (a country of foreigners imposed upon occupied land)? Because of Hamas, you have no sympathy for Palestinians with zero regard to the circumstances that lead Palestinians to hate the circumstances imposed upon them. I'll never understand this concept. And if I ever posted something like this on Facebook I'd probably be fired.

 

11 minutes ago, Schulz2.0 said:

I work with a guy who's dad immigrated here. The dad is a Greek Turk. My coworker was bitching to me about us financing Israel's military to kill Gazans. He said he felt he couldn't vote for any Democrats or Republicans because of their support for Israel. For a lot of people of Middle Eastern Muslim ancestry, they generally see it as similar to Native Americans fighting white settlers. We can disagree with them, but that's their viewpoint.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/27/michigan-arab-american-voters-biden-israel

 

 

from the river to the sea

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Bevo said:

 

 

 

from the river to the sea

 

 

I.e., "Manifest Destiny." Only works if you have the power. "Might is Right," that's the summary of this entire conflict. Britain tells Palestinians that they all live in Israel now and the newcomers get to boss you around. What the problem is?

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I.e., "Manifest Destiny." Only works if you have the power. "Might is Right," that's the summary of this entire conflict. Britain tells Palestinians that they all live in Israel now and the newcomers get to boss you around. What the problem is?

If you need to dumb it down to understand, then maybe you should just bow out.
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9 minutes ago, Viper said:

you this is untrue right? Israel is almost 2/3 native to the middle east. It's been 70 something years and they've won multiple wars. It's theirs.

And yet it really came to a head after the UN encouraged European Jews to move there too and gave them all the military powers of the west. Yes, the Arab Palestinians lost many wars when up against the might of every western power. I at least appreciate honesty that the defeated should just accept subjugation. 

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Remember, some of the non-active Palestinian people have been brainwashed at home, in the community and even at school about the evils of the Jewish people. It’s a very sad state. It’s like American daddy is a KKK member and shapes Jimmy’s view of other races but what’s different about Gaza is that there is no opposing viewpoint anywhere unless the kids bootleg the internet. We’re talking Hitler’s Germany level of brainwash.
In no way do I think this should dissuade Israel from surgically extracting every last Hamas member.
And for the college students in this country who “think” they are on the right side of supporting outright anti semitism?, shame on you. You are utterly becoming a disgusting human being. Obviously, German history in the 1930’s is not taught in school. Protesting for the human rights of the Palestinian people is acceptable. But that’s not what’s happening with these radicalized view points shouted across college campuses. There is no excuse for a person in America to be able to seek the balance of truth unless they are intellectually unwilling and lazy enough to accept whatever bullshit some professor or media source has fed them.

No such thing as surgical strikes when human shields are involved.

And those students are a product of our education system. We create workers, not thinkers.
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1 hour ago, Skipper said:

This.  I'm absolutely disgusted with what is going on right now in this country.  Especially after sitting with a jewish client and listening to his personal experiences in New York.  I'll stop it there because otherwise will probably get too Cloak Roomy but it's really disappointing that there isn't more backlash.  How the fuck did tacitly supporting fucking terrorists become "PC"?

Two words.  I won't say them but they rhyme with shmanti shmemitism.  Same as it ever was.  Wish I could put on my shocked face but I just can't.  

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14 minutes ago, Frank Drebin said:

This NY bro was not having it (someone tearing down flyers of kidnapped Israeli children)

 

 

 

I don't understand the indignation to having kidnapped/photos up. Why are people so agitated by seeing it that they have to rip it down instead of just walking by it? What point do they think they are making? 

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7 minutes ago, BeardIP said:

I don't understand the indignation to having kidnapped/photos up. Why are people so agitated by seeing it that they have to rip it down instead of just walking by it? What point do they think they are making? 

They think it's Jewish propaganda.

Palestine = Hamas

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