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2024 Presidential Election Thread - Let's keep the party going.


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Posted
1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:


That “different value system” is often “fuck everyone but me, nobody else has any value.”
That’s our core problem. We’re fucking broken. The concept of the common good/the commonwealth isn’t just out of favor, it’s seen as evil.

Agreed.  I'd expand that to human nature is 60% "fuck everyone but me."

Self-preservation is lizard brain stuff.

Posted

Good lord to all of you completely perplexed by the "morons" who may stay home rather than vote for a President...who won't be the President. Get out of your bubbles.

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Posted
Just now, aggie08 said:

Good lord to all of you completely perplexed by the "morons" who may stay home rather than vote for a President...who won't be the President. Get out of your bubbles.

There’s nothing perplexing about it. It doesn’t change that they are morons or assholes. 

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Posted

Goddammit, focus. Assume goal is defeat dotard in November. Assume Biden demurs this weekend. Assume he remains president for remainder of his term. What is way to defeat dotard in November? 
 

Posted
Agreed.  I'd expand that to human nature is 60% "fuck everyone but me."
Self-preservation is lizard brain stuff.

The dumbest part about it is that it’s a fail of base-level game theory. Looking out only for yourself…at the expense of the society and social fabric that laid the foundation for the very prosperity and security you’re trying to protect and sustain…fucking smooth-brained idiocy. Tragedy of the commons shit.
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Cool. None of that gets voters to the polls. In fact, it does the opposite. It creates factions within the party that hurts GOTV efforts and makes it harder to win.

It’s a horrible idea.

Number 3 gets people to the polls and there is literally no evidence in the last 100 years that a contested convention hurt anything other than feelings. How would it hurt GOTV vs annointment? It creates factions? We already have them. Parties exist to consolidate factions. They do that through trial by combat. Welcome to a world called right now. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
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Posted
Just now, hobbes2702 said:

There’s nothing perplexing about it. It doesn’t change that they are morons or assholes. 

Most people barely follow politics (lucky them). And most of this shit doesn't effect their dad-to-day (until it does). Should they be more engaged and forward-thinking? Sure...I guess. Hard to get mad at them for living a life of blissful ignorance. 

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Posted
18 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

They're not, they just have a different value system than you or me.

The problem with American politics today is black and white thinking.  Most of us fall in the gray area.

I’m in the gray area. I also realize that “dismantling democracy” is a one-issue vote if there ever was one, and I’m behaving accordingly. Anyone who doesn’t is an idiot or a fascist. 

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Posted
Just now, Brisketexan said:


The dumbest part about it is that it’s a fail of base-level game theory. Looking out only for yourself…at the expense of the society and social fabric that laid the foundation for the very prosperity and security you’re trying to protect and sustain…fucking smooth-brained idiocy. Tragedy of the commons shit.

What's especially interesting is that I just read an article yesterday theorizing that human consciousness developed as a way to build social cohesion.

Posted
Just now, aggie08 said:

Most people barely follow politics (lucky them). And most of this shit doesn't effect their dad-to-day (until it does). Should they be more engaged and forward-thinking? Sure...I guess. Hard to get mad at them for living a life of blissful ignorance. 

Calm as Hindu cows? 
 

ignorance should never be envied. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, SydneyCarton said:

I’m in the gray area. I also realize that “dismantling democracy” is a one-issue vote if there ever was one, and I’m behaving accordingly. Anyone who doesn’t is an idiot or a fascist. 

You're operating under the assumption that everyone (aside from fascists and idiots) are in favor of democracy.

Posted
3 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

Most people barely follow politics (lucky them). And most of this shit doesn't affect their dad-to-day (until it does). Should they be more engaged and forward-thinking? Sure...I guess. Hard to get mad at them for living a life of blissful ignorance. 
 

 

I don’t think that really applies to the people Dixon is talking about. They clearly are engaged in some way but they can’t get themselves to vote for Biden because a Trump presidency likely doesn’t affect them that much. Basically they don’t care about the people it does affect. That makes them assholes 

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Posted
1 minute ago, aggie08 said:

Is that what I said?

kind seems like it? 
 

Quote

Hard to get mad at them for living a life of blissful ignorance. 

Don’t get mad vs. envy seems like quibbling but if you like I’ll amend it to “hard to blame their blissful ignorance?”

Posted
2 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

You're operating under the assumption that everyone (aside from fascists and idiots) are in favor of democracy.

Actually, I’m pretty sure that was my point. They your friends, not aside from, are fascist-different. Or in your words not in favor of democracy. 

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Posted
23 minutes ago, fattyflattie said:

The problem is there is no representation for the gray. 

Oh man, would you be absolutely terrified what's considered liberal ideology in the rest of the world vs. the milquetoast version we have here.

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Posted
6 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Number 3 gets people to the polls and there is literally no evidence in the last 100 years that a contested convention hurt anything other than feelings. How would it hurt GOTV vs annointment? It creates factions? We already have them. Parties exist to consolidate factions. They do that through trial by combat. Welcome to a world called right now. 

I’m sure it won’t hurt the minority vote if Kamala is forced out in favor of candidate x. 
They should be consolidating those factions not working to deepen the divide. Which is all a “trial by combat” will do. 
I can’t believe anyone thinks it would do anything helpful. It’s a disaster of an idea. Especially for a party that already struggles to hold its coalitions together. 
It’s like the Bernie bros never happened.

Posted

NYT reporting radical republicans are already laying the groundwork to challenge the voter certification and the RNC isn’t saying whether they are involved or not

 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

 

I don’t think that really applies to the people Dixon is talking about. They clearly are engaged in some way but they can’t get themselves to vote for Biden because a Trump presidency likely doesn’t affect them that much. Basically they don’t care about the people it does affect. That makes them assholes 

I'll be sure to share your concerns with them. 

I'm sure they'll be crushed to know a few anonymous posters on Surly think they are assholes.

Posted
2 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 


It’s gonna get ugly

 

Well, yeah. Self-preservation is about to kick in hard. Unless it's "Biden steps down and endorses Kamala, and everyone keeps their jobs," shit's going to get real.

Posted
1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

I'm not arguing the validity of the position.  Basically, most of them thought Biden was too old... then the debate happened, and they noped out.

The only other person I've heard them say they don't like is Newsome.  

They will not vote for any dem. They will find a reason no matter who it is. Just watch. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Pancho said:

NYT reporting radical republicans are already laying the groundwork to challenge the voter certification and the RNC isn’t saying whether they are involved or not

 

Of course they will. This is the new way forward until Trump dies (of natural causes). 

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Posted
1 hour ago, DixonHur said:

The issue I have with this logic is you're relying 100% on Dems to win the election.

I think anti-Trump is last for many independents.  My ranking would be:

1. the candidate

2. Dobbs - 

3. Project 2025 

4. Trump

Separated Dobbs and Project 2025 because I think they influence different people different ways (aside from the obvious national abortion ban in P2025).

Trump is last because I think a lot of us see him as nothing more than a puppet at this point.  We're not worried about him as much as the people surrounding him...IE Project 2025.

Trump, if he actually followed his beliefs, wouldn't be that bad.  He doesn't care about abortion, and when he gets off message on immigration, he has a few decent ideas, like automatic Green Cards for immigrants who earn a degree in the US.  Then his handlers scold him and the next day he changes course to propose an immigrant fighting league.

At the core of Trumpism, to the degree that there is such a thing, are his views on immigration and trade, along with orthodox Republican tax and regulatory cuts for the rich and corporations. His 10% tariffs and anything approaching mass deportation would make the post-COVID inflationary cycle look like child's play. He proposed the visas for degrees while pandering to tech money. He is willing to make that proposal because 1.) He'll tell anyone what they want to hear to get what he needs out of them; and 2.) He views IT workers much differently that the clearly racially motivated vitriol he has for migrants from Latin America. The visas for degrees bit is also bad policy that would actually accelerate the displacement of American workers in a way brown people coming across the border never has.

If Trump follows his beliefs we will experience a recession on par with 2008-10, if not worse.

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Posted
4 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Actually, I’m pretty sure that was my point. They your friends, not aside from, are fascist-different. Or in your words not in favor of democracy. 

I'm not particularly in favor of democracy either.  

I mean, look where it's gotten us.

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Posted
Just now, DixonHur said:

I'll be sure to share your concerns with them. 

I'm sure they'll be crushed to know a few anonymous posters on Surly think they are assholes.

This is a weird response lol. 
This Is Cool GIF by MOODMAN

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Posted
1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

They will not vote for any dem. They will find a reason no matter who it is. Just watch. 

That possible is certainly not out of the question, but age and cognitive abilities seem to be the main sticking points.

Posted
1 minute ago, Dahobbs said:

They will not vote for any dem. They will find a reason no matter who it is. Just watch. 

Had this conversation literally yesterday after a friend texted…

“I hope they both die lol”

 “So you’ll vote for Kamala”

”depends what she’s campaigning on”

This is my shocked face

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Posted
3 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

 

If Trump follows his beliefs we will experience a recession on par with 2008-10, if not worse.

not until he has time to take credit for inflation decreases, stock market rallies to all time highs, and low unemployment rates.

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Posted
14 minutes ago, TheStoicPaisano said:

Trumpamania

 

 

5 minutes ago, Horn Dogg said:

Why don’t we just go ahead and skip to fucking President Camacho?

Yep.  Idiocracy come to life.  Fml.

Posted
3 minutes ago, gmr548 said:

At the core of Trumpism, to the degree that there is such a thing, are his views on immigration and trade, along with orthodox Republican tax and regulatory cuts for the rich and corporations. His 10% tariffs and anything approaching mass deportation would make the post-COVID inflationary cycle look like child's play. He proposed the visas for degrees while pandering to tech money. He is willing to make that proposal because 1.) He'll tell anyone what they want to hear to get what he needs out of them; and 2.) He views IT workers much differently that the clearly racially motivated vitriol he has for migrants from Latin America. The visas for degrees bit is also bad policy that would actually accelerate the displacement of American workers in a way brown people coming across the border never has.

If Trump follows his beliefs we will experience a recession on par with 2008-10, if not worse.

I think the core of Trumpism is staying in power. Period.

The rest is just window dressing. 

He saw a niche on the right that he could exploit and he did.  I Don't even think he expected it to explode like it did.

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Posted
Just now, Chuckie Finster said:


“Sources close to the President are furious at the push to get Biden off the ticket….
If they want him out, they’ll have to push.”

What are we even doing?

Mistakes were made.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, DixonHur said:

That possible is certainly not out of the question, but age and cognitive abilities seem to be the main sticking points.

Your friends are liars. They are also assholes, morons, fascists, or a combination of the three. You have shitty people for friends. Deal with it. 

Edited by Dahobbs
Posted
3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Tell us more. 

I certainly don't claim to know what the best form of government is, but there's a book called The Dawn of Everything that talks about various forms over the years.

It turns out that even before the Greeks, our ancestors toyed with democracy in different parts of the world and all chose to go back to some sort of kingship or chiefdom, for various reasons... most notably the lack of accountability, and people working in their own self interest instead of that of people who selected them.

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Posted
Just now, DixonHur said:

I certainly don't claim to know what the best form of government is, but there's a book called The Dawn of Everything that talks about various forms over the years.

It turns out that even before the Greeks, our ancestors toyed with democracy in different parts of the world and all chose to go back to some sort of kingship or chiefdom, for various reasons... most notably the lack of accountability, and people working in their own self interest instead of that of people who selected them.

But when has that ever ended well for a majority of the people?

Posted
4 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Your friends are liars. They are also assholes, morons, fascists, or a combination of the three. You have shitty people for friends. Deal with it. 

Jennifer Lawrence Reaction GIF

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Posted
22 minutes ago, babysdaddy said:

 

 


It’s gonna get ugly

 

Given that they’ve been lying to the country about Biden’s mental state for the better part of a year, I don’t give a fuck about their fucking feelings.

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