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graphic: Rampage Jackson’s son Raja Jackson may have beaten a man to death


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Posted
22 minutes ago, ztejas said:

I thought the sarcasm would be obvious but I'll add the /s next time.

I mean UFC discouraged it with USADA, so you sounded like a clown which is why I questioned if you were drunk posting.  

Posted (edited)

Saw some video last night where some wrestling talking head was predicting nothing criminal comes from this.  He related stories of how when he was involved in regional, independent wrestling, one of the uniform things across orgs was that if you were publicly shown to not be a badass, you would be fired -- no ifs, ands or buts.  You can go out, party, have fun.  But if you get into a real fight, you better win, because if there are videos online showing you to be less than a badass, your job was over.  He believes that unless this wrestler dude can physically never wrestle again, he will likely not press charges, treat it as part of a storyline and try to use it as an angle for a rematch against Raja.  Otherwise, he's done as a wrestler at any level with all the videos and media attention showing him getting his shit pushed in.  And if the wrestler doesn't want to be involved with a criminal prosecution, there won't be one.

He's probably wrong as fuck, but who knows.  The police do seem to be waiting on the victim to want them to do something, and nothing seems to be coming from the victim's direction, yet.

Edited by Goredho
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Goredho said:

Saw some video last night where some wrestling talking head was predicting nothing criminal comes from this.  He related stories of how when he was involved in regional, independent wrestling, one of the uniform things across orgs was that if you were publicly shown to not be a badass, you would be fired -- no ifs, ands or buts.  You can go out, party, have fun.  But if you get into a real fight, you better win, because if there are videos online showing you to be less than a badass, your job was over.  He believes that unless this wrestler dude can physically never wrestle again, he will likely not press charges, treat it as part of a storyline and try to use it as an angle for a rematch against Raja.  Otherwise, he's done as a wrestler at any level with all the videos and media attention showing him getting his shit pushed in.  And if the wrestler doesn't want to be involved with a criminal prosecution, there won't be one.

He's probably wrong as fuck, but who knows.  The police do seem to be waiting on the victim to want them to do something, and nothing seems to be coming from the victim's direction, yet.

looked like they were wrestling in a YMCA hall, and according to stories the victim is a Vet who joined the wrestling to help with his PTSD.  I doubt he was counting on a lucrative career.

Someone said earlier, a fully trained MMA fighter knows more than most just how dangerous what he did to a fully defenseless unconscious person is.  He tried to kill him and should be charged as such.  Will be a miracle if the victim doesn't have brain damage.

It's attempted murder

Edited by ChickenSandwich
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Posted
1 hour ago, Goredho said:

Saw some video last night where some wrestling talking head was predicting nothing criminal comes from this.  He related stories of how when he was involved in regional, independent wrestling, one of the uniform things across orgs was that if you were publicly shown to not be a badass, you would be fired -- no ifs, ands or buts.  You can go out, party, have fun.  But if you get into a real fight, you better win, because if there are videos online showing you to be less than a badass, your job was over.  He believes that unless this wrestler dude can physically never wrestle again, he will likely not press charges, treat it as part of a storyline and try to use it as an angle for a rematch against Raja.  Otherwise, he's done as a wrestler at any level with all the videos and media attention showing him getting his shit pushed in.  And if the wrestler doesn't want to be involved with a criminal prosecution, there won't be one.

He's probably wrong as fuck, but who knows.  The police do seem to be waiting on the victim to want them to do something, and nothing seems to be coming from the victim's direction, yet.

The latest update is that the other guy is in stable but still critical condition. I would imagine the police might want to hear what he has to say but I do think it’s going to be hard to not charge the guy with the extensive video and streaming evidence. Ultimately the wrestler doesn’t have to agree to press charges and this went way beyond a street fight that got bad. 

In all states that I am aware of, you can’t consent to an assault that results in serious bodily injury. The combat sports exception only applies when it’s done under regulating bodies’ supervision and conditions like ringside doctors are present.  Both unlikely to be met here since the event is entertainment and not a sanctioned fight and because the guy is in critical condition.

Posted

New angle of this. If you’ve only ever seen pro ‘rasslin on TV you can miss exactly HOW cartoonish and staged it is.  That’s in full effect here and makes Jackson look worse. 
 

First, it’s so clearly a fake fight and show. Second, you can tell that the wrestler was in performance mode. No resistance or surprise to Jackson’s presence, just part of the show. Third, Jackson’s level of violence is so completely different from what’s going on and people immediately begin trying to intervene. 
 

 

Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, ChickenSandwich said:

looked like they were wrestling in a YMCA hall, and according to stories the victim is a Vet who joined the wrestling to help with his PTSD.  I doubt he was counting on a lucrative career.

Someone said earlier, a fully trained MMA fighter knows more than most just how dangerous what he did to a fully defenseless unconscious person is.  He tried to kill him and should be charged as such.  Will be a miracle if the victim doesn't have brain damage.

It's attempted murder

Not arguing contrary to what you or @956 Worldwide are saying.  I personally agree with you, just stating that some people feel like its somewhat likely the wrestler and everyone adjacent to the wrestling production are going to want to stay out of a prosecution/be uncooperative for reasons that only make sense within the wrestling business.  These guys are more experts in wrestling than they are legal matters, so after that they are just speculating from a non-legal opinion on what the police might do with all the video evidence but no cooperative witnesses between the victim and people involved with the production (promoters, other wrestlers).

I mean, its attempted murder, and pre-meditated at that.  I don't think there is any other conclusion that we can draw from the videos we've seen.  But if the victim and all the other wrestlers are going to undermine that conclusion by saying, "All the videos before, during and after the match were intended to be part of the storyline.  The victim's catastrophic injuries were horrific, but not intended and not malicious.  The only intent from everyone involved -- including the accused -- was to sell the audience on a malicious assault happening.  Unfortunately, it was unclear to everyone involved -- including the accused -- that serious injuries had been suffered by the injured party" under oath, what's going to happen?  If the police/DA know that going in, are they going to want to bother?  I don't know the answer to that.

Edited by Goredho
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Posted
4 minutes ago, Goredho said:

I mean, its attempted murder, and pre-meditated at that.  I don't think there is any other conclusion that we can draw from the videos we've seen.  

Attempted murder is a tough one, especially in this context where a guy is just beating on someone with his fists. Absent clear evidence of intent - e.g. a recording where the defendant explicitly states that he is going to kill the victim - unless a defendant is using a gun, or stabs a guy in the heart or neck, its hard to get an attempted murder conviction even from the most violent assaults.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Not arguing contrary to what you or @956 Worldwide are saying.  I personally agree with you, just stating that some people feel like its somewhat likely the wrestler and everyone adjacent to the wrestling production are going to want to stay out of a prosecution/be uncooperative for reasons that only make sense within the wrestling business.  These guys are more experts in wrestling than they are legal matters, so after that they are just speculating from a non-legal opinion on what the police might do with all the video evidence but no cooperative witnesses between the victim and people involved with the production (promoters, other wrestlers).

I mean, its attempted murder, and pre-meditated at that.  I don't think there is any other conclusion that we can draw from the videos we've seen.  But if the victim and all the other wrestlers are going to undermine that conclusion by saying, "All the videos before, during and after the match were intended to be part of the storyline.  The victim's catastrophic injuries were horrific, but not intended and not malicious.  The only intent from everyone involved -- including the accused -- was to sell the audience on a malicious assault happening.  Unfortunately, it was unclear to everyone involved -- including the accused -- that serious injuries had been suffered by the injured party" under oath, what's going to happen?  If the police/DA know that going in, are they going to want to bother?  I don't know the answer to that.

Maybe. I think that they’re more likely waiting to see the extent of the damage and if the guy wakes up. I think it’s going to be hard for anyone to walk back the statement of the promoter that already got released which says pretty much what happened. 

Different era and a different outcome than a bar brawl. Most wrestling fans now approach things from an entertainment perspective. 

Quote

“First and foremost our thoughts and prayers are with our brother Mr. Stuart Smith (Syko Stu) as he remains a priority and we are monitoring his well being,” a representative of KnokX Pro Wrestling Academy wrote. “What was supposed to be a planned and agreed upon wrestling spot turned into a selfish, irresponsible act of violence against Mr. Smith.”

“This egregious act is reprehensible and never should have occurred. In the 17 years of operation of KnokX Pro Wrestling Academy, there has never been anything as heinous take place such as this and we apologize to our patrons and fans.”

 

Edited by 956 Worldwide
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Posted
3 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Maybe. I think that they’re more likely waiting to see the extent of the damage and if the guy wakes up. I think it’s going to be hard for anyone to walk back the statement of the promoter that already got released which says pretty what happened. 

Different era and a different outcome than a bar brawl.

 

Yeah, these guys I saw could be wrong, and that statement sounds very different than what they felt was going to be coming from the promoters.  Wrestling is tricky.  I mean, they are essentially roleplaying assaults all the time, and real injuries are inflicted all the time.  Where is the line at which the law can ascertain what is real and what is part of the show?  Where is the line beyond which the wrestling business wants to invite the law's scrutiny?

Posted
7 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Yeah, these guys I saw could be wrong, and that statement sounds very different than what they felt was going to be coming from the promoters.  Wrestling is tricky.  I mean, they are essentially roleplaying assaults all the time, and real injuries are inflicted all the time.  Where is the line at which the law can ascertain what is real and what is part of the show?  Where is the line beyond which the wrestling business wants to invite the law's scrutiny?

I don't see the parallel to losing a straight up bar fight. The wreslter was supposed to take a "punch" i.e., a wrestling style punch. He wasn't defending himself because his role was to pretend to be stunned by the slam. How could anyone call him a "pussy" for being knocked out by a legit MMA punch when the script said to not offer a defense? The legal line is when someone intentionally hurts another. If a high boot to the jaw goes wrong and a guy breaks his face, that's accidental. I've seen videos where pro wrestlers do an X sign with their arms if they are legitimately injured to tell the opponent and ref that something real has occurred. If they let this go without charges it would seem to be far worse for the business. They've acknowledged that this asshole intentionally tried to hurt someone outside of the script and nearly killed him. I can't see the wrester or the organization just letting that go. 

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Goredho said:

Yeah, these guys I saw could be wrong, and that statement sounds very different than what they felt was going to be coming from the promoters.  Wrestling is tricky.  I mean, they are essentially roleplaying assaults all the time, and real injuries are inflicted all the time.  Where is the line at which the law can ascertain what is real and what is part of the show?  Where is the line beyond which the wrestling business wants to invite the law's scrutiny?

Is it possible the promoters and others involved might have some serious interest in making this a criminal act by Jackson? If they failed that bad at setting up a staged fight they could open themselves to real liability. That would likely outweigh the legal scrutiny. 

Injuries in wrestling do happen all the time but they are nearly always sports type injuries, or actual stunt work that goes wrong.  I cannot recall a single incident of an actual serious beating inside a ring because most of these people want to go to work the next week. And even in real combat sports, you can absolutely be charged if you go outside the rules of the sport and hurt someone.

The slamming could easily be hand-waved away as a poor technique or an accident but you can’t say that full downward strikes from the mount are part of a staged work. 

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