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Posted
1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

The dude in the Oval Office needs a win. "Ending" another war to change the headlines. That's literally all this is. He doesn't care who dies and who gets fucked so long as it directly benefits him.

I heard a prof on NPR discussing this and he said essentially the same thing.  Tfg just wants to get the two sides to say "yes," so he can spike the ball and claim a touchdown.  He doesn't give a rats ass about the details.  But the two sides killing each other really really care a whole lot about the details.  So this is never going to happen in the way tfg wants.

 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Who was the poster who was dedicating aspects of his life to the war in Ukraine, had made visits, but had voted for Trump. I think it was @HellesBier

Hey bud, how you feeling about this administration now?

Yeah, it was that guy. After he was crowdsourced, he created @WineGuy69 as his handle, but that one got the banhammer too back in June earlier this summer. No idea which one is him now, but look for an account that emerged around the end of June or the beginning of July.

Edit: I do recall him being quite the White supremacist and Islamophobe, so take that into account as well.

Edited by bolverk
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Posted
7 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Yeah, it was that guy. After he was crowdsourced, he created @WineGuy69 as his handle, but that one got the banhammer too back in June earlier this summer. No idea which one is him now, but look for an account that emerged around the end of June or the beginning of July.

Edit: I do recall him being quite the White supremacist and Islamophobe, so take that into account as well.

I mean, I'm sure he's a piece of shit. Sure. But I mean, the one thing he loved is in direct conflict with his own actions. That would be hard to shake for a normal human being. 

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Posted
19 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

I mean, I'm sure he's a piece of shit. Sure. But I mean, the one thing he loved is in direct conflict with his own actions. That would be hard to shake for a normal human being. 

922e1972e0cc4599af4ca4c067e74301.gif

Posted
26 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Yeah, it was that guy. After he was crowdsourced, he created @WineGuy69 as his handle, but that one got the banhammer too back in June earlier this summer. No idea which one is him now, but look for an account that emerged around the end of June or the beginning of July.

Edit: I do recall him being quite the White supremacist and Islamophobe, so take that into account as well.

I'm fairly sure he was also a pedophile. He said some shit about how the Greeks would've enslaved a poster that was very similar to how a lot of pedos understand ancient Greece.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, NorthLoop said:

We already established that he was maga

Tom Cruise Smile GIF

 

Also, any Treaty with Russia needs to start with removing all nuclear weapons... You know, like we did with Ukraine?

Edited by Jameslaw121
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Posted
3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

90+ year-old  machine gun still doing work against modern systems.  
 

 

Ian McCollum from Forgotten Weapons said something a few weeks ago about Maxim guns being used in Ukraine.  

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Posted
11 minutes ago, Gil Bang said:

our government is being run by clueless chucklefucks.

Turf wars.  Factions. This from one of the statements above sums it up.

Quote

Foreign nations now have to deal with rival factions of the U.S. government who keep major policy initiatives secret from each other and some of which work with foreign powers as the succession battle for 2028 begins, is how one diplomat put it.

 

Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

Turf wars.  Factions. This from one of the statements above sums it up.

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clydg8w7kxvo

 

Trump says US plan to end Ukraine war not 'final offer' for Kyiv

5 hours ago
Jaroslav Lukiv
 

President Donald Trump has said a US plan to end the Russia-Ukraine war is not his "final offer" for Kyiv, after Ukrainian allies voiced concerns over proposals.

 

Earlier on Saturday, leaders from Europe, Canada and Japan said the plan had elements "essential for a just and lasting peace", but would "require additional work", citing concerns over border changes and caps on Ukraine's army.

On Sunday, security officials from Britain, France, Germany, the US and Ukraine will meet in Geneva, Switzerland.

President Volodymyr Zelensky earlier warned Ukraine faced "one of the most difficult moments in our history" over US pressure to accept the plan seen as favourable to Moscow.

Trump has given Ukraine until 27 November to accept the 28-point plan, while Russia's President Vladimir Putin said it could be the "basis" for a settlement.

When asked on Saturday whether the current draft plan was his final offer for Ukraine, Trump told reporters at the White House: "No, not my final offer."

"One way or another we have to get it [the war] ended, so we're working on it," he added.

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio and special envoy Steve Witkoff will be among those taking part in talks in Geneva on Sunday. National Security Adviser Jonathan Powell will attend on the UK's behalf.

Saturday's joint statement at the G20 summit in South Africa was signed by the leaders of Canada, Finland, France, Ireland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Spain, the UK, Germany and Norway. Two top EU officials were also among the signatories.

The statement said: "We believe therefore that the draft is a basis which will require additional work. We are ready to engage in order to ensure that a future peace is sustainable. We are clear on the principle that borders must not be changed by force.

"We are also concerned by the proposed limitations on Ukraine's armed forces, which would leave Ukraine vulnerable to future attack."

It added: "The implementation of elements relating to the European Union and relating to Nato would need the consent of EU and Nato members respectively".

UK Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer, who is at the G20 summit in Johannesburg, spoke to Zelensky on the phone on Saturday, followed by a call with Trump.

On the Trump call, a Downing Street spokesman said Sir Keir "relayed the discussions that have been taking place between Coalition of the Willing partners [Ukraine's allies] in attendance at the G20 summit today".

They added: "The leaders agreed their teams would work together on the 28-point US peace proposal in Geneva tomorrow. They agreed to speak again tomorrow."

Sir Keir earlier said he was concerned about proposed caps on Ukraine's military in the US plan, saying "it's fundamental that Ukraine has to be able to defend itself if there's a ceasefire".

The widely leaked US peace plan proposes Ukrainian troops withdraw from the part of the eastern Donetsk region that they currently control, and de facto Russian control of Donetsk, as well as the neighbouring Luhansk region and the southern Crimea peninsula annexed by Russia in 2014.

The plan also includes freezing the borders of Ukraine's southern Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions along the current battle lines. Both regions are partially occupied by Russia.

The US draft would also limit Ukraine's military to 600,000 personnel, with European fighter jets stationed in neighbouring Poland.

Kyiv would receive "reliable security guarantees", the plan says, although no details have been given. The document says "it is expected" that Russia will not invade its neighbours and Nato will not expand further.

The plan also suggests Russia will be "reintegrated into the global economy", through the lifting of sanctions and by inviting Russia to rejoin the G7 group of the world's most powerful countries - making it the G8 again.

On Friday, Trump said Zelensky would "have to like" the US proposals, adding otherwise Ukraine and Russia would continue fighting.

Earlier in the day, the Ukrainian leader addressed the nation with a stark warning that the country "might face a very difficult choice: either losing dignity, or risk losing a key partner".

"Today is one of the most difficult moments in our history," Zelensky added, pledging to work "constructively" with the Americans on the plan.

On Saturday, Zelensky announced that his head of office Andriy Yermak would lead Ukraine's negotiating team for future talks on a peace deal, including any that may involve Russia.

"Our representatives know how to defend Ukraine's national interests and exactly what must be done to prevent Russia from launching a third invasion, another strike against Ukraine," the president said in a video statement posted on social media.

Kyiv is critically dependent on deliveries of US-made advanced weaponry, including air defence systems to repel deadly Russian air assaults, as well as intelligence provided by Washington.

Putin on Friday confirmed Moscow had received the US plan - but said it had not been discussed with the Kremlin in detail.

He added Moscow was willing to "show flexibility" - but was also prepared to fight on.

Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

In recent months, Russian troops have been slowly advancing in Ukraine's south-eastern region - despite reported heavy combat casualties.

Edited by Bevo
Posted
20 minutes ago, Hefeweizen said:

Meanwhile Russia is selling gold reserves.  Special operation going great eh Vlad?

Having just watched Ken Burns' The American Revolution and having gone back and started watching his Vietnam series, there's definitely some comparisons to Ukraine to be made (a lot to be made to the Revolution series, even if it was about our founding, still some great comparisons to be made).  As one of the historians on the Revolution series said, and as many other historians have said and several of us have mentioned the quote in this thread, Washington realized he didn't have to win, he just had to not lose. Britain was still heavily in debt from the Seven Years War, and with France and Spain entering, it went from them trying to take the North American colonies to them running the risk of losing a lot more than those colonies (including the Caribbean colonies, Canada, etc.) and the British public getting worn out.  Similar in Vietnam - they didn't have to defeat us (and arguably couldn't in a stand-up fight with our air power), but they just had to outlast us (or rather the American public's support).

Same for Ukraine. They don't have to win the major battles, but when Russia dips into their gold reserves, when they shut down exports because infrastructure was knocked offline or sanctions shut them down, when they have to leave oil & gas infrastructure because Ukraine keeps taking out air defenses elsewhere faster than they can manufacture them, that's Ukraine winning battles that aren't on the battlefield.

 

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 

Looks like lows in 30s, highs low 50s this week.   Still, we all know how much fun it is not to have electricity, no matter what the temperature.   

Food over 40° spoils.  Frozen food thaws.  You have no lights, you can’t do laundry, you can’t have your operation or medical treatment, your kids can’t go to school. Work is closed, and if you don’t go to work, you don’t get paid.   The gas pumps don’t work, assuming they have gas to sell.  

Nothing makes an unhappy person angrier than someone telling them. Everything is fine. Putin likes to tell them everything‘s fine.  He should do more of that.  if anyone has found some site that tracks energy outages in Russia, that would let us know how many people are involved in how long the outage has been, that would be interesting.

Moscow looks about 10-15 degrees colder than that.   

Edited by Gatorubet
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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Hefeweizen said:

Meanwhile Russia is selling gold reserves.  Special operation going great eh Vlad?

Bitcoin taking a huge dump is also a nice blow to the russians war effort

Edited by Captainant
Posted
9 hours ago, Bevo said:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/clydg8w7kxvo

 

Trump says US plan to end Ukraine war not 'final offer' for Kyiv

5 hours ago
Jaroslav Lukiv
 

President Donald Trump has said a US plan to end the Russia-Ukraine war is not his "final offer" for Kyiv, after Ukrainian allies voiced concerns over proposals.

 

Earlier on Saturday, leaders from Europe, Canada and Japan said the plan had elements "essential for a just and lasting peace", but would "require additional work", citing concerns over border changes and caps on Ukraine's army.

On Sunday, security officials from Britain, France, Germany, the US and Ukraine will meet in Geneva, Switzerland.

President Volodymyr Zelensky earlier warned Ukraine faced "one of the most difficult moments in our history" over US pressure to accept the plan seen as favourable to Moscow.

Trump has given Ukraine until 27 November to accept the 28-point plan, while Russia's President Vladimir Putin said it could be the "basis" for a settlement.

When asked on Saturday whether the current draft plan was his final offer for Ukraine, Trump told reporters at the White House: "No, not my final offer."

"One way or another we have to get it [the war] ended, so we're working on it," he added.

US Secretary of State Marco Rubio and special envoy Steve Witkoff will be among those taking part in talks in Geneva on Sunday. National Security Adviser Jonathan Powell will attend on the UK's behalf.

Saturday's joint statement at the G20 summit in South Africa was signed by the leaders of Canada, Finland, France, Ireland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Spain, the UK, Germany and Norway. Two top EU officials were also among the signatories.

The statement said: "We believe therefore that the draft is a basis which will require additional work. We are ready to engage in order to ensure that a future peace is sustainable. We are clear on the principle that borders must not be changed by force.

"We are also concerned by the proposed limitations on Ukraine's armed forces, which would leave Ukraine vulnerable to future attack."

It added: "The implementation of elements relating to the European Union and relating to Nato would need the consent of EU and Nato members respectively".

UK Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer, who is at the G20 summit in Johannesburg, spoke to Zelensky on the phone on Saturday, followed by a call with Trump.

On the Trump call, a Downing Street spokesman said Sir Keir "relayed the discussions that have been taking place between Coalition of the Willing partners [Ukraine's allies] in attendance at the G20 summit today".

They added: "The leaders agreed their teams would work together on the 28-point US peace proposal in Geneva tomorrow. They agreed to speak again tomorrow."

Sir Keir earlier said he was concerned about proposed caps on Ukraine's military in the US plan, saying "it's fundamental that Ukraine has to be able to defend itself if there's a ceasefire".

The widely leaked US peace plan proposes Ukrainian troops withdraw from the part of the eastern Donetsk region that they currently control, and de facto Russian control of Donetsk, as well as the neighbouring Luhansk region and the southern Crimea peninsula annexed by Russia in 2014.

The plan also includes freezing the borders of Ukraine's southern Kherson and Zaporizhzhia regions along the current battle lines. Both regions are partially occupied by Russia.

The US draft would also limit Ukraine's military to 600,000 personnel, with European fighter jets stationed in neighbouring Poland.

Kyiv would receive "reliable security guarantees", the plan says, although no details have been given. The document says "it is expected" that Russia will not invade its neighbours and Nato will not expand further.

The plan also suggests Russia will be "reintegrated into the global economy", through the lifting of sanctions and by inviting Russia to rejoin the G7 group of the world's most powerful countries - making it the G8 again.

On Friday, Trump said Zelensky would "have to like" the US proposals, adding otherwise Ukraine and Russia would continue fighting.

Earlier in the day, the Ukrainian leader addressed the nation with a stark warning that the country "might face a very difficult choice: either losing dignity, or risk losing a key partner".

"Today is one of the most difficult moments in our history," Zelensky added, pledging to work "constructively" with the Americans on the plan.

On Saturday, Zelensky announced that his head of office Andriy Yermak would lead Ukraine's negotiating team for future talks on a peace deal, including any that may involve Russia.

"Our representatives know how to defend Ukraine's national interests and exactly what must be done to prevent Russia from launching a third invasion, another strike against Ukraine," the president said in a video statement posted on social media.

Kyiv is critically dependent on deliveries of US-made advanced weaponry, including air defence systems to repel deadly Russian air assaults, as well as intelligence provided by Washington.

Putin on Friday confirmed Moscow had received the US plan - but said it had not been discussed with the Kremlin in detail.

He added Moscow was willing to "show flexibility" - but was also prepared to fight on.

Putin launched a full-scale invasion of Ukraine in February 2022.

In recent months, Russian troops have been slowly advancing in Ukraine's south-eastern region - despite reported heavy combat casualties.

Jfc - Jello in an earthquake is more stable than that yo-yo.

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