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2021 WR Casey Cain

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51 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Are you just dividing distance by time? Or have some sort of conversion table where X in the 200m typically translates to a Y in the 40? 1st ~10 yards are gonna be the slowest piece (and what's most translatable to football) and more heavily weighted in a 40 than a 200m

 

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His school got featured on last season of QB1, don’t recall him though. 
 

Lulz at the 40 talk. The number of high schoolers that could run a legit, laser timed sub 4.6 is incredibly small. This guy might not be a burner but it’s not like he’s a slug either.

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17 minutes ago, Helobious said:

His school got featured on last season of QB1, don’t recall him though. 
 

Lulz at the 40 talk. The number of high schoolers that could run a legit, laser timed sub 4.6 is incredibly small. This guy might not be a burner but it’s not like he’s a slug either.

Perhaps true, but a 24sec 200m is pretty pedestrian. Olympians beat that by about 4.5sec.

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21 minutes ago, Bevo said:

Perhaps true, but a 24sec 200m is pretty pedestrian. Olympians beat that by about 4.5sec.

I just don't see the point in getting worked up over non-senior season hudl film or track times. Kids get stronger, faster, and better as they age and grow. 

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Just now, Sock Monkey said:

I just don't see the point in getting worked up over non-senior season hudl film or track times. Kids get stronger, faster, and better as they age and grow. 

But then how would you ever judge a take?

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If you watch his tape, he does a lot at the line to try and gain an advantage and seems to do well with contested balls. He appeared to run as fast as he needed to, has good size with the time and opportunity to get bigger. As noted by several posters up thread, he can improve his speed.

Fast is obviously better than slow, but we had a track star on the team the last several years (was it 10? It seemed like 10) who I appreciate, but wasn’t super productive. We also had a 4.75 40 guy who is one of the best receivers we’ve had., and stuck with an NFL team. I see fades in the end zone in Casey’s future.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

His times are also from his sophomore year. He could show up in Austin with better speed than when he was 15-16

Sorry, that's not how this works. I peaked as a sophomore just like everyone else.

Edited by Vertigo

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Pluck generally means he uses his hands with ease. There are many who bring balls in with their arms, bodies, fights the ball before controlling it, etc. 

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2 hours ago, Bevo said:

Perhaps true, but a 24sec 200m is pretty pedestrian. Olympians beat that by about 4.5sec.

Is my sarcasm meter broken?

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5 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

How about this as an answer... after doing a little math I think he just took average velocity and then converted to 40 yards. The same math would suggest Usain Bolt would run a 3.51 40. So it's not the math calculation that sucks. It's the application of the math that sucks.

As for the anecdote i've heard regarding why the 40 is used is just that it was something that Lombardi used in Green Bay. They were wildly successful and everyone decided to copy him and then it just became the standard.

this from fox sports about 40 yard dash history.  Paul Brown

 Cleveland Browns coach Paul Brown came up with the number in the mid-1940s, figuring the 40 was a “more meaningful measure of true football speed” than the 50- or even the 100-yard dash, because it was about the distance a player would cover on a punt:

The origin of timing football players for 40 yards comes from the average distance of a punt and the time it takes to reach that distance. Punts average around 40 yards in distance from the line of scrimmage, and the hangtime (time of flight) averages approximately 4.5 seconds. Therefore, if a coach knows that a player runs 40 yards in 4.5 seconds, he will be able to leave the line of scrimmage when a punt is kicked, and reach the point where the ball comes down just as it arrives.

According to Sports Illustrated, Brown used the 40-yard dash as a tiebreaker to figure out who could cover a punt. Then Gil Brandt made it a uniform test with the Cowboys in the 1960s, determining that the 40 was the best distance for skill-position players. Other teams quickly followed suit, and the rest is history.

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2 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

this from fox sports about 40 yard dash history.  Paul Brown

 Cleveland Browns coach Paul Brown came up with the number in the mid-1940s, figuring the 40 was a “more meaningful measure of true football speed” than the 50- or even the 100-yard dash, because it was about the distance a player would cover on a punt:

The origin of timing football players for 40 yards comes from the average distance of a punt and the time it takes to reach that distance. Punts average around 40 yards in distance from the line of scrimmage, and the hangtime (time of flight) averages approximately 4.5 seconds. Therefore, if a coach knows that a player runs 40 yards in 4.5 seconds, he will be able to leave the line of scrimmage when a punt is kicked, and reach the point where the ball comes down just as it arrives.

According to Sports Illustrated, Brown used the 40-yard dash as a tiebreaker to figure out who could cover a punt. Then Gil Brandt made it a uniform test with the Cowboys in the 1960s, determining that the 40 was the best distance for skill-position players. Other teams quickly followed suit, and the rest is history.

Whoops. Wrong old coach/successful org. Maybe Lombardi hated the 40 and I had his part in the story completely backward?  

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, TommyGufano said:

Whoops. Wrong old coach/successful org. Maybe Lombardi hated the 40 and I had his part in the story completely backward?  

too be honest I thought is was Brandt until I started looking for it.   I also assumed it was for WR because that is about your top end and the rough distance at which you need to break away for a fly route. 

the punt thing makes a lot of sense though.

Edited by dcar00

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Okay.  Cool.  Hook em'.  4.7 isn't encouraging but he seems huge on tape.  If he grows another inch or two and can work on his get off and acceleration to get to 4.6, then he'll be fine for  college.  Who knows.

Yvdnnp.gif

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Interesting juxtaposition - we land this guy on the same day OU gets the #1 rated WR in the nation

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LJH ran a 4.75 at the combine, and he was a great college receiver. He also (basically) returned a kickoff for a TD in the Big 12 title game, which is the pinnacle of speed accomplishments on a football field. Some dudes just have a knack for balling even if their measureables aren’t great. 

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His overall athleticism looks better than I expected on his film.   He cuts and changes directions well for his size.   Has some bounce in his short area movements.    Speed isn’t explosive but looks good enough.

A 24 second 200m is bad if it were his senior or even his junior year time, but most prospects make a sizable speed improvement between their sophomore and senior years.   

I would obviously rather have Jojo Earle, but I’m not aghast at this take.  I could see Cain working out.   After watching both their films for the first time, I’m actually a lot higher on Cain than on Brooks, which is the opposite of what I expected.

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8 minutes ago, Helobious said:

LJH ran a 4.75 at the combine, and he was a great college receiver. He also (basically) returned a kickoff for a TD in the Big 12 title game, which is the pinnacle of speed accomplishments on a football field. Some dudes just have a knack for balling even if their measureables aren’t great. 

Unless if I'm misunderstanding the legwork that the "(basically)" portion of your post is doing, that's not a thing that happened. He had 1 return for 22 yards in that game.

But I am on board with your larger point. Especially if it's a real 4.7 and not a 4.9 that's being reported as a 4.7 because that's how HS 40's are often reported.

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1 hour ago, TommyGufano said:

Unless if I'm misunderstanding the legwork that the "(basically)" portion of your post is doing, that's not a thing that happened. He had 1 return for 22 yards in that game.

But I am on board with your larger point. Especially if it's a real 4.7 and not a 4.9 that's being reported as a 4.7 because that's how HS 40's are often reported.

His 40 time is laser-timed from the Nike Opening Regional at New Orleans in 2019.  Not a high school coach hand-timing. 

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1 hour ago, TommyGufano said:

Unless if I'm misunderstanding the legwork that the "(basically)" portion of your post is doing, that's not a thing that happened. He had 1 return for 22 yards in that game.

But I am on board with your larger point. Especially if it's a real 4.7 and not a 4.9 that's being reported as a 4.7 because that's how HS 40's are often reported.

It happened. There was a penalty as there was on essentially every play that game.

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2 minutes ago, CashMcCoy said:

It happened. There was a penalty as there was on essentially every play that game.

then my sincere apologies for questioning what he said. Odd that I don't recall it and almost equally odd it isn't documented in the play-by-play i checked against.

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Just now, TommyGufano said:

then my sincere apologies for questioning what he said. Odd that I don't recall it and almost equally odd it isn't documented in the play-by-play i checked against.

It was after the game clinching Calcaterra TD I believe so you might have rightfully turned it off out of frustration at that point.

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6 hours ago, Bevo said:

Perhaps true, but a 24sec 200m is pretty pedestrian. Olympians beat that by about 4.5sec.

To adapt the old Bum Phillips quote, “When we’re facing a 3rd-and-200, we’ll just throw to somebody else.”

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4 hours ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

His 40 time is laser-timed from the Nike Opening Regional at New Orleans in 2019.  Not a high school coach hand-timing. 

That’s even better because everyone is slower on the laser. Hand timed he’s probably 4.6

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9 hours ago, TommyGufano said:

Unless if I'm misunderstanding the legwork that the "(basically)" portion of your post is doing, that's not a thing that happened. He had 1 return for 22 yards in that game.

But I am on board with your larger point. Especially if it's a real 4.7 and not a 4.9 that's being reported as a 4.7 because that's how HS 40's are often reported.

Called back on a penalty with 2 minutes left in the game as Cash pointed out. It actually was a legit holding that sprung him so can’t complain too much, but a lot of other calls that game were BS. Point is LJH was still able to use his change of direction & acceleration to run almost the length of the field despite his 4.8 speed. 

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13 hours ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

Are there pass catchers who don't pluck the ball out of the air? If there are, why do you call them pass catchers?

Grabs the ball out the air rather than waiting for it to come down or come to him, which also nullifies his height.  Guys with speed generally run to the ball or under it.  The elites have both. And if they can't catch, they're usually corners.  

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Posted (edited)

Not too worried about the 40 time of a kid who's probably looked at more as a possession receiver. Especially when he’s got a wingspan like that, good ball skills and can run decent routes in HS. I know we have a vision of modern day receivers as all short little burners, but having a possession receiver won’t be going out of style too son, unless you’re my Houston Texans and you trade the best one in the league (6’1, 4.6ish 40) for peanuts. You just don’t want a whole receiver’s room full of them.

Young QBs in college like that safety check who just catches the ball, open or not, on target throw or not (see Sam and Johnson. Johnson can put up 4.6s, but is 6’6. Guys like Cain can be 6’2, but the catch radiuses, hand usage etc... has ‘em playing bigger).

Not forecasting Cain, though. I’d prefer we find a guy just like him, but faster. Hope he shows out and excites us. 
 

The problem isn’t Cain, it’s only a problem if that’s your big take. Staff has work to do. 

Edited by UncleBuck

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17 hours ago, Degenerate Gardner said:

Are there pass catchers who don't pluck the ball out of the air? If there are, why do you call them pass catchers?

There are pass catchers and there are Pluckers. Pluckers really know how to wing it, IMO.

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5 minutes ago, PsychMike said:

There are pass catchers and there are Pluckers. Pluckers really know how to wing it, IMO.

giphy.gif

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1 hour ago, PsychMike said:

There are pass catchers and there are Pluckers. Pluckers really know how to wing it, IMO.

 

giphy.gif

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He is not Julio Jones, but he is also not Malcom Epps.  I think we have a fairly fast plucker who will not get mauled by 5'8" DB's.  .  

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New Commit Casey Cain is a Good Fit for the Texas Offense

Texas got a commitment from three-star wide receiver Casey Cain on Friday, but just where does the Louisiana playmaker fit into the Texas offense?

The Longhorns' power spread offense functions at its best when it can line up big-framed receivers on the outside to create matchup problems with smaller cornerbacks. 

The "x" receiver position specifically depends on players being able to win 50-50 balls and take attention from a boundary cornerback. In the Texas offense that position will never lead the way in targets, but when they are thrown the ball they are usually set up to make a chunk play with big yardage. 

Malcom Epps played most of last season in that spot and caught just 32 passes, but they went for more than 500 yards and six touchdowns. 

While Cain may not be a downfield burner when it comes to speed, his ability to win when the ball is in the air and get in and out of cuts when he needs to makes him a perfect fit for what both Tom Herman and Mike Yurcich want to do in the passing game.  

He's also capable of making guys miss in space, a skill Texas should be able to exploit with its short passing game. 

 

https://www.si.com/college/texas/football/new-commit-casey-cain-is-a-good-fit-for-the-texas-offense

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On 5/16/2020 at 9:39 AM, PsychMike said:

During my early football days (late 70s-early 80's) I was told that the reason we used 40 yard dash to time football player is because that's the distance where we typically reach maximal speed. That said, I would wager that every individual has their own curve. Take a look at this acceleration curve from the world's fastest sprinter.

main-qimg-a916f8609d38f5e1eae3b818814ae6

He continues to accelerate well beyond 40m, although the increment is smaller moving to the right. I would imagine that could explain the disparity of a person's 200m time vs 40. I wouldn't trust any conversion table, because I imagine a well-designed study generating such table would contain sizable error bars.

Seriously?  The guy pulls out a graph for a reply?  On the Surl? And on a commit thread no less??

(But super seriously, that is a really cool graph and he got pos rep. Don't neg me, bro)

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1 hour ago, Hiphopopotamos said:

While Cain may not be a downfield burner when it comes to speed, his ability to win when the ball is in the air and get in and out of cuts when he needs to makes him a perfect fit for what both Tom Herman and Mike Yurcich want to do in the passing game.  

egg-zack-tlee.

 

In theory, not a lot wrong with it. 

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On 5/16/2020 at 2:59 PM, GreenspointTexas said:

Man, we’re never gonna get to fly the space shuttle if we marry a stripper

Well not with that attitude.

Hook em, Casey! 

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Thx for this @satyanash 

 Roach ( 247)"Over the weekend I dug in more on New Orleans (LA) Warren Easton wide receiver Casey Cain and his decision to commit to Texas. I know there was some dispute over his offer list and relative ranking, but I think it’s important to stress that this kid is a player the Texas coaches see something in. Talking with Cain, he made it clear that Mike Yurcich and Andre Coleman recruited him like he was a priority from the moment they offered. One source I spoke with said Texas saw tremendous upside in Cain and thought he was just scratching the surface on how good he could be as a player. He hasn’t been polished by a trainer like most kids in Texas are, but they felt he was a guy who could be developed into a weapon. In checking around with New Orleans sources, they couldn’t say enough what a great kid Cain is and how motivated he is to continue to get better. Regardless of what you think of the take, the Texas staff feels that Cain has exactly what they want."

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i’ve got thoughts and data regarding recruits like this...though not specific but related...to your program historically...but i’m hesitant to share them given i’m a “guest” on this site.

he seems like a good kid...hope he transcends prognostications.

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8 minutes ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

i’ve got thoughts and data regarding recruits like this...though not specific but related...to your program historically...but i’m hesitant to share them given i’m a “guest” on this site.

he seems like a good kid...hope he transcends prognostications.

In the bubble of us all being nice people, what do you mean "like this"?

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the problem is not recruiting kids like this, the problem is development of all your players.

witness when it comes to 5 star players...

9755207.png?fit=bounds&crop=620:320,offset-y0.50&width=620&height=320

Developing 5 star players to the NFL

Only eight programs recruited 10 or more eligible five stars since 2008. Realistically, those are the only schools you can put up against Alabama from a pure volume perspective. Below is how they fared in terms of both first-round development and an overall draft hit rate.

1. Clemson recruits five stars at a much lower rate – at least until recently – than the other programs on this list. But when they land them, they tend to hit. Actually, the Tigers came one pick away (Tee Higgins went No. 33 overall in the 2020 draft) from a 45.5-percent rate with five-star prospects in the first round.

2. Florida, which ranked fourth in 247Sports’ development ratings last week, consistently churned out first-round picks from classes in the early 2010s, even if some of their more recent high-caliber players (Martez Ivey, CeCe Jefferson) busted.

3. Everywhere else, at least among those that recruit a bevy of five stars, have been just middling in development — with the exception of Texas. Ouch.


if you’re having a problem developing 5s, it’s a problem developing 3s. it’s why we completely revamped our entire program top to bottom 3 years ago down to the smallest detail, and it’s paid off with our recent season as well as the draft. consider that CEH was a 3 star, JJ was a 2 star and Adrian Magee literally had no stars and zero offers out of HS, went JUCO and ended up a 3rd round pick. That’s not counting the 12 others who were drafted and the 5 additional who were UDFAs.

we recognized an issue and employed technology and other metrics and upgraded our facilities and nutrition center to maximize potential. it leads to enhanced development.

this is our weight room tech, the only P5 school to have it to date outside of Duke.

http:// https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/lsu-is-winning-the-weight-room-arms-race-with-real-time-data-11575460957

that’s how you maximum abilities. coupled with our own site nutrition center tailor-made to each athletes requirements and dietary needs, pods, etc., we’re able to make up the difference in developing athletes that other programs cannot.

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1 minute ago, Kyrie Eleison said:

the problem is not recruiting kids like this, the problem is development of all your players.

witness when it comes to 5 star players...

9755207.png?fit=bounds&crop=620:320,offset-y0.50&width=620&height=320

Developing 5 star players to the NFL
 

 


if you’re having a problem developing 5s, it’s a problem developing 3s. it’s why we completely revamped our entire program top to bottom 3 years ago down to the smallest detail, and it’s paid off with our recent season as well as the draft. consider that CEH was a 3 star, JJ was a 2 star and Adrian Magee literally had no stars and zero offers out of HS, went JUCO and ended up a 3rd round pick. That’s not counting the 12 others who were drafted and the 5 additional who were UDFAs.

we recognized an issue and employed technology and other metrics and upgraded our facilities and nutrition center to maximize potential. it leads to enhanced development.

this is our weight room tech, the only P5 school to have it to date outside of Duke.

http:// https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/lsu-is-winning-the-weight-room-arms-race-with-real-time-data-11575460957

that’s how you maximum abilities. coupled with our own site nutrition center tailor-made to each athletes requirements and dietary needs, pods, etc., we’re able to make up the difference in developing athletes that other programs cannot.

 

Oh, yeah we know our development is shitty. We bring it up like every day on this forum. Thought you had an interesting opinion about this kid bc he's from Nola.

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