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OU Recruiting 2023: It Ain't Safe After Dark


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On 1/21/2022 at 12:37 PM, texifornia said:

Hah! Hills, art deco architecture (plus the Philbrook), fun restaurants, breweries and bars. I just like the vibe - a bit of Asheville-on-the-Arkansas. It's a good counterpoint to how spraaaawling and flat OKC is.

Let's hope the restaurants are fun because the food is absolutely terrible. It's like every kitchen in the city is staffed by first generation immigrants from England who only eat bland meats with a side of syrupy root vegetables. Bascially, you pay $40 for the entree you would get a hotel wedding reception. Tulsa has the better golf course, a top 5 FLW house and better land and infrastructure than OKC, but my god is the majority of the food terrible.

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1 minute ago, Divided Windows said:

Let's hope the restaurants are fun because the food is absolutely terrible. It's like every kitchen in the city is staffed by first generation immigrants from England who only eat bland meats with a side of syrupy root vegetables. Bascially, you pay $40 for the entree you would get a hotel wedding reception. Tulsa has the better golf course, a top 5 FLW house and better land and infrastructure than OKC, but my god is the majority of the food terrible.

I have to be in Tulsa for business concerns multiple times each year, dating back to 2013. While it isn't the shithole I assumed Oklahoma in general would be, I did realize very quickly that the correct approach, if possible, is to fly in and out on the same day. If you're at the point of extolling virtues around the restaurants, museums and golf course, you're finding yourself in very mediocre territory. I almost feel bad for you okies, having to live in that state and all.

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9 minutes ago, Divided Windows said:

Let's hope the restaurants are fun because the food is absolutely terrible. It's like every kitchen in the city is staffed by first generation immigrants from England who only eat bland meats with a side of syrupy root vegetables. Bascially, you pay $40 for the entree you would get a hotel wedding reception. Tulsa has the better golf course, a top 5 FLW house and better land and infrastructure than OKC, but my god is the majority of the food terrible.

I was only there for a couple days - had a tight list of things to see and do and was back on the road. The food wasn't the highlight, but I had solid tacos from a truck at American Solera, and a very decent bbq lunch at Mac's in Skiatook, and I was out.

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Tulsa is "Asheville on the Arkansas?"  Maybe if Asheville had a giant fucking refinery in the middle of town.  

While having made a legitimate effort to upgrade, Tulsa still largely sucks.  A few good neighborhoods, far flung suburbs, and mostly shitty areas.  

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1 hour ago, texifornia said:

I was only there for a couple days - had a tight list of things to see and do and was back on the road. The food wasn't the highlight, but I had solid tacos from a truck at American Solera, and a very decent bbq lunch at Mac's in Skiatook, and I was out.

 

Oh yeah.  

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1 hour ago, closetojumping said:

I have to be in Tulsa for business concerns multiple times each year, dating back to 2013. While it isn't the shithole I assumed Oklahoma in general would be, I did realize very quickly that the correct approach, if possible, is to fly in and out on the same day. If you're at the point of extolling virtues around the restaurants, museums and golf course, you're finding yourself in very mediocre territory. I almost feel bad for you okies, having to live in that state and all.

Don't start blushing on us. Considering your blinding Texas bias, for you to label something outside of the Republic as mediocre is high praise. I am a golf course and architecture connoisseur, so give me a high end Maxwell and a textile block FLW, and I'm happy from at least sunrise to sunset. Night is another matter. That's where Tulsa goes south quick. OKC has a few Michelin quality tasting menu restaurants, and Tulsa has none.

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21 minutes ago, Divided Windows said:

Don't start blushing on us. Considering your blinding Texas bias, for you to label something outside of the Republic as mediocre is high praise. I am a golf course and architecture connoisseur, so give me a high end Maxwell and a textile block FLW, and I'm happy from at least sunrise to sunset. Night is another matter. That's where Tulsa goes south quick. OKC has a few Michelin quality tasting menu restaurants, and Tulsa has none.

Indeed, I couldn't honestly bring myself to post a more derisive term than "mediocre", largely because I have been to New Jersey, Modesto, Detroit, Clearwater, Baton Rouge, Mississippi and Imperial Valley. Tulsa is fine by those comparisons.

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1 minute ago, closetojumping said:

Indeed, I couldn't honestly bring myself to post a more derisive term than "mediocre", largely because I have been to New Jersey, Modesto, Detroit, Clearwater, Baton Rouge, Mississippi and Imperial Valley. Tulsa is fine by those comparisons.

shit I think you just sold me on Tulsa.. going to take my wife there for our 21 year anniversary.. she has to divorce me at this point, right?!?!

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1 minute ago, Tex-19 said:

Sark is truly all in on Arch for 2023. Bold strategy Cotton

Arch waiting is going to make 2023 recruiting crazy. I bunch of schools are going to be in on Arch. Until that domino falls, there is not much reason to take QB commits seriously. Going to be a lot of scrambling after Arch falls. 

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13 minutes ago, Tex-19 said:

Sark is truly all in on Arch for 2023. Bold strategy Cotton

If I were Sark, unless it's a Ewers or Manning (namely because of name) type recruit, I wouldn't give 2 shits about high school QB recruiting. It seems to be the new norm that every fucking year, 4 and 5 star QBs portal if they don't immediately start their Freshman year. 

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5 hours ago, crash_davis said:

If I were Sark, unless it's a Ewers or Manning (namely because of name) type recruit, I wouldn't give 2 shits about high school QB recruiting. It seems to be the new norm that every fucking year, 4 and 5 star QBs portal if they don't immediately start their Freshman year. 

There's a stat floating around about this. Going back to the early 2010s, more than 50% of 4- and 5-star QBs transfer at least once. Coaches know this so the value of high school QB recruiting should be adjusted accordingly. Taking a QB from North Texas is good politics for this OU staff, and he may even turn out to be a good player!

Build the infrastructure, and a top transfer QB will bail you out if you don't have a QB ready for the next year. OU experienced it this year even with Dillon Gabriel.

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On 1/24/2022 at 6:42 PM, Hookem2147 said:

I think IT mentioned a while back that even if Texas pursued Arnold, he wasn’t coming. Just wasn’t a fan of Texas 

He's someone Texas could heave easily landed if he was treated as the top priority, but he was never going to be the top priority in this class

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On 1/24/2022 at 9:42 AM, closetojumping said:

I have to be in Tulsa for business concerns multiple times each year, dating back to 2013. While it isn't the shithole I assumed Oklahoma in general would be, I did realize very quickly that the correct approach, if possible, is to fly in and out on the same day. If you're at the point of extolling virtues around the restaurants, museums and golf course, you're finding yourself in very mediocre territory. I almost feel bad for you okies, having to live in that state and all.

This Tulsa talk hits close to home.  My dad played football for Tulsa and got a degree in Mathematics.  I’m very thankful he didn’t want to live there after college.  I think he got back to Texas as fast as he could.  

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9 minutes ago, stork642 said:

This Tulsa talk hits close to home.  My dad played football for Tulsa and got a degree in Mathematics.  I’m very thankful he didn’t want to live there after college.  I think he got back to Texas as fast as he could.  

I'm guessing your father looked like

Jabiru (Jabiru mycteria) 2.JPG

or

220px-Woodstork17.jpg

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_of_Oklahoma)

Not surprising he didn't reside in Tulsa for the long haul, Tulsa has a terrible history with anyone/anything that is the least bit black in appearance.

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3 hours ago, kilroydos said:

I don't know why I held on to a little hope for this one.  I guess just because he didn't immediately decommit.  It had to be too high a bar to clear for a new staff combination.

 

You were right. After Riley moved to SC, Moore said he was an OU fan from childhood and would stick with OU. Guess something else happened.

3 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

"Phew. Too many talented WRs would have complicated things" - quigley, probably

Exactly. OU landing this guy is what's important today!

https://247sports.com/Player/Gavin-Freeman-46117994/

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7 minutes ago, quigley said:

You were right. After Riley moved to SC, Moore said he was an OU fan from childhood and would stick with OU. Guess something else happened.

 

Some folks are still saying this is a part of Venables/Dabo's rules about taking visits after committing.  I think it's fair to take an offer or the status of "committed" seriously and to be more judicious with it than some programs are.  I just feel like a lot of this culture change is performative and means nothing.  I'm also aware I'm not the target audience, so if 17 year old football players and their families need to see a bunch of acronym posters and semi-religious messaging, then that's the game as it's played.  Same with all of the keyboard warriors pleasuring themselves to the thought of athletes puking from workouts, etc.  It's not unique to OU, but it's not at all what I enjoyed about following the team.

I also think the beat writers at large are saying the same things they used to say about Lincoln up until this season.  "Cares about players as people"  "Family atmosphere" "Genuine and honest".  It's all true until it isn't, and it's all great unless it doesn't work.  2023 is a huge opportunity to recover a cratered class, and if it doesn't happen, that's a genuinely large hurdle to clear with a move to the SEC on the horizon.

Edited by kilroydos
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1 minute ago, kilroydos said:

Some folks are still saying this is a part of Venables/Dabo's rules about taking visits after committing.  I think it's fair to take an offer or the status of "committed" seriously and to be more judicious with it than some programs are.  I just feel like a lot of this culture change is performative and means nothing.  I'm also aware I'm not the target audience, so if 17 year old football players and their families need to see a bunch of acronym posters and semi-religious messaging, then that's the game as it's played.  Same with all of the keyboard warriors pleasuring themselves to the thought of athletes puking from workouts, etc.  It's not unique to OU, but it's not at all what I enjoyed about following the team.

I also think the beat writers at large are saying the same things they used to say about Lincoln up until this season.  "Cares about players as people"  "Family atmosphere" "Genuine and honest".  It's all true until it isn't, and it's all great unless it doesn't work.  2023 is a huge opportunity to recover a cratered class, and if it doesn't happen, that's a genuinely large hurdle to clear with a move to the SEC on the horizon.

Wait, Venables is following the Swinney premise of not letting players stay committed if they're still taking visits? Is that right? 

Mack Brown got away with that at Texas. Paterno started that at PSU and got away with it. Swinney took that premise and made it work at Clemson, but those are the only guys I've heard of that get away with that. Venables doing that at OU will be fun to watch. Good luck.

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40 minutes ago, closetojumping said:

Wait, Venables is following the Swinney premise of not letting players stay committed if they're still taking visits? Is that right? 

Mack Brown got away with that at Texas. Paterno started that at PSU and got away with it. Swinney took that premise and made it work at Clemson, but those are the only guys I've heard of that get away with that. Venables doing that at OU will be fun to watch. Good luck.

That's the rumor.  He's never going to come out and say it, but I worry that's the case.  Even with Clemson, it worked until it didn't and they couldn't do what Saban did and reload when injuries hit hard.  The tradeoff is processing out highly-ranked and talented players like Georgia and Alabama.  You operate with much thinner margins and a couple of bad evals can really tank a season or two.  Nobody bats an eye when Saban tells a five star they've got to pound sand because they've been recruited over, that's just how the machine works.  You try that when you've sold yourself as a caring, righteous man of god and we will see what breaks first.

I've been wondering when the bloom would fade from Dabo's rose in that regard, and I don't love Venables setting himself up in the same way.

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15 hours ago, closetojumping said:

Mack Brown got away with that at Texas. 

How often did Mack recruit over someone who was taking visits? I recall that being a "rule" but I can't remember specific examples of guys that got processed out of a class because they took visits. But I don't follow this as closely as many on this board. 

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19 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

About that WR dropping out, you can get good skill dudes anywhere at this point and that also applies to the NFL.  Every week there are catches by WR's that 15 years ago would have been Play of the Year or some shit.

 

I think college is different from the pros at some positions because the floor of ability is so high (eg, LB, and mostly RB).

What OU's facing in 2022 is a bit different. They only have 9 true WR on the roster, including 2 freshmen. Freshman WR are generally not good, so relying on them is not advised. Out of those 9, only 3 have any proven production (Mims, Stoops, Wease), one of those is coming off injury (Wease).

So just having enough bodies at WR is a key.

The WR who decommitted is a 2023 player. This staff has several good recruiters, and OU will likely look very different in October. So as long as the staff is making relationships, OU's be in good shape next Feb.

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14 minutes ago, quigley said:

I think college is different from the pros at some positions because the floor of ability is so high (eg, LB, and mostly RB).

What OU's facing in 2022 is a bit different. They only have 9 true WR on the roster, including 2 freshmen. Freshman WR are generally not good, so relying on them is not advised. Out of those 9, only 3 have any proven production (Mims, Stoops, Wease), one of those is coming off injury (Wease).

So just having enough bodies at WR is a key.

The WR who decommitted is a 2023 player. This staff has several good recruiters, and OU will likely look very different in October. So as long as the staff is making relationships, OU's be in good shape next Feb.

Stoops is massively overrated too. I'm tired of hearing about him as if he's a significant piece of the offense. Maybe he will be next season, but he only had 16 catches last year. If I were a betting man, I'd bet big money both Farooq and West (if they both stick around) have more yards than Stoops next season. Hell, I'd probably guess Darby and maybe even one of the freshmen have more yards too.

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5 minutes ago, Divided Windows said:

Stoops is massively overrated too. I'm tired of hearing about him as if he's a significant piece of the offense. Maybe he will be next season, but he only had 16 catches last year. If I were a betting man, I'd bet big money both Farooq and West (if they both stick around) have more yards than Stoops next season. Hell, I'd probably guess Darby and maybe even one of the freshmen have more yards too.

Stoops in 2020 really overachieved and outperformed his perceived ability, especially in his reliability and catch radius.  This year was a big step backwards in most circumstances.  People have wondered for two years why he was seeing the field over more "talented" receivers.  With the attrition and lack of push from underclassmen, I wouldn't expect his snap count to go down this year.

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38 minutes ago, quigley said:

I think college is different from the pros at some positions because the floor of ability is so high (eg, LB, and mostly RB).

What OU's facing in 2022 is a bit different. They only have 9 true WR on the roster, including 2 freshmen. Freshman WR are generally not good, so relying on them is not advised. Out of those 9, only 3 have any proven production (Mims, Stoops, Wease), one of those is coming off injury (Wease).

So just having enough bodies at WR is a key.

The WR who decommitted is a 2023 player. This staff has several good recruiters, and OU will likely look very different in October. So as long as the staff is making relationships, OU's be in good shape next Feb.

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/11315400/61350cc0d468b506c87c399a
 

A ‘22 kid, but this is a recent PWO. Same high school as Sterling Shepherd and Wes Welker. Has a really impressive highlight reel. Could see him having an impact. 
 

Edit: Was committed to Tech, but new staff pushed him out. 

Edited by Constant
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7 hours ago, Divided Windows said:

Stoops is massively overrated too. I'm tired of hearing about him as if he's a significant piece of the offense. Maybe he will be next season, but he only had 16 catches last year. If I were a betting man, I'd bet big money both Farooq and West (if they both stick around) have more yards than Stoops next season. Hell, I'd probably guess Darby and maybe even one of the freshmen have more yards too.

 

7 hours ago, kilroydos said:

Stoops in 2020 really overachieved and outperformed his perceived ability, especially in his reliability and catch radius.  This year was a big step backwards in most circumstances.  People have wondered for two years why he was seeing the field over more "talented" receivers.  With the attrition and lack of push from underclassmen, I wouldn't expect his snap count to go down this year.

 

7 hours ago, Constant said:

http://www.hudl.com/video/3/11315400/61350cc0d468b506c87c399a
A ‘22 kid, but this is a recent PWO. Same high school as Sterling Shepherd and Wes Welker. Has a really impressive highlight reel. Could see him having an impact.

Agree with all of this. Stoops is a serviceable slot WR. Riley should get credit for scheming him open. Stoops should get credit a reasonably high catch rate (~ 70% each of the last 2 yrs). But he's had almost the exact same stats for the last 2 years, 22 or 23 targets with 15 - 16 receptions for ~ 200 yds. This will be his 5th year in the program so getting more from him would be a significant surprise. I don't think any of the OU folks here are counting on a breakout from him.

Who knows what to expect from Wease, a guy who didn't seem fast before his injury and who had some crucial drops in 2020 (37 catches, 55 targets, 550 yds, 14.8 yd/catch). So that leaves you with Mims and 6 guys who've combined to catch 20 balls. 

@Constant I hope you're right

But even if Gavin Freeman duplicates Welker's freshman season (26 catches, 334 yards), we're looking at a better Drake Stoops. Freshman WR usually aren't that impactful. That's why Mims, Lamb, Stills, and Broyles really stand out.

Point is, OU's passing offense may suffer next year and the QB change may not the big change. Especially if injuries hit, there may be a huge drop off in pass catchers. I'm really surprised OU hasn't taken portal WRs yet to protect against this.

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20 minutes ago, quigley said:

 

 

Agree with all of this. Stoops is a serviceable slot WR. Riley should get credit for scheming him open. Stoops should get credit a reasonably high catch rate (~ 70% each of the last 2 yrs). But he's had almost the exact same stats for the last 2 years, 22 or 23 targets with 15 - 16 receptions for ~ 200 yds. This will be his 5th year in the program so getting more from him would be a significant surprise. I don't think any of the OU folks here are counting on a breakout from him.

Who knows what to expect from Wease, a guy who didn't seem fast before his injury and who had some crucial drops in 2020 (37 catches, 55 targets, 550 yds, 14.8 yd/catch). So that leaves you with Mims and 6 guys who've combined to catch 20 balls. 

@Constant I hope you're right

But even if Gavin Freeman duplicates Welker's freshman season (26 catches, 334 yards), we're looking at a better Drake Stoops. Freshman WR usually aren't that impactful. That's why Mims, Lamb, Stills, and Broyles really stand out.

Point is, OU's passing offense may suffer next year and the QB change may not the big change. Especially if injuries hit, there may be a huge drop off in pass catchers. I'm really surprised OU hasn't taken portal WRs yet to protect against this.

I get it. I’m still excited about that kid. He’s the kinda player I wanted to be in high school, but I was probably half as fast. 
 

He’s small, but that isn’t as much a barrier to being elite anymore.

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