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jimmyjazz

Justin Amash: Independent

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so - current running tally on total number of Republican politicians at any level who have done the right thing during the trump presidency, nationwide:

1

 

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2 hours ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Impeccable timing.

Impeachable timing 

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1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

 

I'll shed one tear for him. 

Lol @ real life impact to a congressman. Get outta here with that shit. 

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So, he's probably running for President. 

And he's declaring his independence from the two party system on July 4th. The spectacle of Congress is such a fucking joke. 

 

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Please run as an indie. Please. 

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Can’t wait to see all the republicans who would vote for a “real fiscal conservative republican who isn’t trump” trash him 

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1 hour ago, Js1 said:

Please run as an indie. Please. 

Not sure that peels ANY Trump voters.  Interesting take.

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7 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Not sure that peels ANY Trump voters.  Interesting take.

It doesn't help. The pool of Trump voters is shrinking.

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It might give some Never Trumpers a more comfortable alternative to Trump than the Democrats, but I also don’t think it would make any difference.   You don’t really need Amash on the ballot to make a 3rd party protest vote.

He actually is a million times better than the jokers the Libertarian Party usually nominate, though.  So, on the merits he should do significantly better than the Libertarian usually does, but in reality I don’t think he would.

Edited by longhornmatt

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I've nearly given up on politics (I don't think I've ever posted in this forum), but I personally love Amash.  I'd love for him to run as a libertarian, as I agree he's head and shoulders above what they usually put forth.  I anticipate he'd face some stupid purity tests and grumbling from unrealistic anarchist weirdos, but while he has no chance at winning, he has the best chance of anyone in the past or near future to jump start some support for an actual, viable third party.

Whether or not you agree with his politics, I think his WaPo Op-ed is well worth reading, and does a good job of calling out Congress for abdicating its Constitutional responsibilities in favor of predetermined outcomes and Pyrrhic victories.

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4 hours ago, Hank Kingsley said:

So, he's probably running for President. 

And he's declaring his independence from the two party system on July 4th. The spectacle of Congress is such a fucking joke. 

 

What a damn clownshow. Declaring independence from the Trumpkin Party on the 4th. Good job, good effort and whatnot.

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Amash is one of the few good ones. Good for him.

The two party system does suck.

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So my neighbors, who still have Ron Paul bumper stickers on their 20 year-old car, informed me that Amash will make the libertarian party legitimate, and will help flip Texas.

 I guess I wasn’t paying attention to the LP as of late, but he does appear to have some fans in that group.  Doubt he impacts Texas, that appears to be wishful thinking on their part (they hate Trump and the GOP).

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Is Grand Rapids a changing demographic? These guys just want to be reelected or have a springboard to another job that produces $ and power. 

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14 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

So my neighbors, who still have Ron Paul bumper stickers on their 20 year-old car, informed me that Amash will make the libertarian party legitimate, and will help flip Texas.

 I guess I wasn’t paying attention to the LP as of late, but he does appear to have some fans in that group.  Doubt he impacts Texas, that appears to be wishful thinking on their part (they hate Trump and the GOP).

Flip Texas to....the libertarians? Do you live next to bernorange?

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Just now, Js1 said:

Flip Texas to....the libertarians? Do you live next to bernorange?

Democrats.  I won’t repeat the whole conversation, but basically if Amash can show the LP has power by peeling off enough Trump voters who are really closeted libertarians, then the LP’s profile will rise, and it will draw more interest.   

I personally think the actual libertarians probably didn’t vote for Trump, and probably didn’t vote at all, but who am I to argue with the bumper stickers on a Subaru.  Nonetheless, they are excited, and think more Rs are ready to embrace the LP.

Pretty sure this couple strolls through UT on a regular basis with “I’m a libertarian, ask me anything” shirts.

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Well... The LP national convention is in Austin next year. So maybe... as long as he beats out Moonbeam and an exiled John McAfee.

 

The problem is that the public no longer seems concerned with our debt/ spending any more, which is a cornerstone of the LP.

 

In 2014 74% said that the budget deficit was a top concern for Congress to fix. That number has dropped to 48%.

 

If no one cares about our massive spending, I don't think he can flip that many people.

 

 

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3 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

So my neighbors, who still have Ron Paul bumper stickers on their 20 year-old car, informed me that Amash will make the libertarian party legitimate, and will help flip Texas.

 I guess I wasn’t paying attention to the LP as of late, but he does appear to have some fans in that group.  Doubt he impacts Texas, that appears to be wishful thinking on their part (they hate Trump and the GOP).

No, he will not impact Texas. At most, he could possibly derail Trump in Michigan where Amash is still very popular. Keep in mind that Trump won Michigan by a very thin margin, 11,000 votes.

The Libertarian Party has never been a useful political animal and I don't see that changing any time soon. Even with Amash the LP will not achieve legitimacy. Libertarians are terrible teammates.

 

 

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9 minutes ago, F250 said:

Libertarians are terrible teammates.

Do you attribute that to the ideology?  Libertarians focus on the individual over the collective? 

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5 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

Do you attribute that to the ideology?  Libertarians focus on the individual over the collective? 

Yes, the LP is a collection of lone wolves that can't seem to figure out pack behavior.

 

 

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Hey good on him for actually doing something besides tweeting his displeasure and will actually have a deleterious effect on his career.

But he still holds way too many janky positions to ever earn my vote but I’ve been bitching that none of these “incredibly concerned” assholes were doing anything but running their cockhokster so thumbs up for taking actual action, Justin.

I still hope you lose your seat to a Democrat.

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Here is the WaPo piece he wrote. High five for leading with the political death spiral. 

 

Justin Amash: Our politics is in a partisan death spiral. That’s why I’m leaving the GOP.

Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan listens as he is introduced during a town hall event in Grand Rapids on May 28. (Jeff Kowalsky/Bloomberg)

By Justin Amash 

Justin Amash, an independent, represents Michigan’s 3rd Congressional District in the House. 

When my dad was 16, America welcomed him as a Palestinian refugee. It wasn’t easy moving to a new country, but it was the greatest blessing of his life.

Throughout my childhood, my dad would remind my brothers and me of the challenges he faced before coming here and how fortunate we were to be Americans. In this country, he told us, everyone has an opportunity to succeed regardless of background.

Growing up, I thought a lot about the brilliance of America. Our country’s founders established a constitutional republic uniquely dedicated to securing the rights of the people. In fact, they designed a political system so ordered around liberty that, in succeeding generations, the Constitution itself would strike back against the biases and blind spots of its authors.

My parents, both immigrants, were Republicans. I supported Republican candidates throughout my early adult life and then successfully ran for office as a Republican. The Republican Party, I believed, stood for limited government, economic freedom and individual liberty — principles that had made the American Dream possible for my family.

In recent years, though, I’ve become disenchanted with party politics and frightened by what I see from it. The two-party system has evolved into an existential threat to American principles and institutions.

Rep. Justin Amash defended his critical remarks of President Trump during a May 28 Michigan town hall. On July 4, he announced he would be leaving the Republican Party. (WZZM)

George Washington was so concerned as he watched political parties take shape in America that he dedicated much of his farewell address to warning that partisanship, although “inseparable from our nature,” was the people’s “worst enemy.” He observed that it was “the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.”

Washington said of partisanship, in one of America’s most prescient addresses: “The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty. …

“It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.”

True to Washington’s fears, Americans have allowed government officials, under assertions of expediency and party unity, to ignore the most basic tenets of our constitutional order: separation of powers, federalism and the rule of law. The result has been the consolidation of political power and the near disintegration of representative democracy.

These are consequences of a mind-set among the political class that loyalty to party is more important than serving the American people or protecting our governing institutions. The parties value winning for its own sake, and at whatever cost. Instead of acting as an independent branch of government and serving as a check on the executive branch, congressional leaders of both parties expect the House and Senate to act in obedience or opposition to the president and their colleagues on a partisan basis.

In this hyperpartisan environment, congressional leaders use every tool to compel party members to stick with the team, dangling chairmanships, committee assignments, bill sponsorships, endorsements and campaign resources. As donors recognize the growing power of party leaders, they supply these officials with ever-increasing funds, which, in turn, further tightens their grip on power.

The founders envisioned Congress as a deliberative body in which outcomes are discovered. We are fast approaching the point, however, where Congress exists as little more than a formality to legitimize outcomes dictated by the president, the speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader.

With little genuine debate on policy happening in Congress, party leaders distract and divide the public by exploiting wedge issues and waging pointless messaging wars. These strategies fuel mistrust and anger, leading millions of people to take to social media to express contempt for their political opponents, with the media magnifying the most extreme voices. This all combines to reinforce the us-vs.-them, party-first mind-set of government officials.

Modern politics is trapped in a partisan death spiral, but there is an escape.

Most Americans are not rigidly partisan and do not feel well represented by either of the two major parties. In fact, the parties have become more partisan in part because they are catering to fewer people, as Americans are rejecting party affiliation in record numbers.

These same independent-minded Americans, however, tend to be less politically engaged than Red Team and Blue Team activists. Many avoid politics to focus on their own lives, while others don’t want to get into the muck with the radical partisans.

But we owe it to future generations to stand up for our constitutional republic so that Americans may continue to live free for centuries to come. Preserving liberty means telling the Republican Party and the Democratic Party that we’ll no longer let them play their partisan game at our expense.

Today, I am declaring my independence and leaving the Republican Party. No matter your circumstance, I’m asking you to join me in rejecting the partisan loyalties and rhetoric that divide and dehumanize us. I’m asking you to believe that we can do better than this two-party system — and to work toward it. If we continue to take America for granted, we will lose it.

Edited by Anastasis

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Amash runs for president as an L. Donald refuses the presidential debates. So then invite Kamala/Warren and Amash. That would be great.  

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So, 5-6 months from now, when all these 6-figure white people who have been concern trolling the Democratic primary go full on for Gary Johnson 2.0, I'm supposed to act surprised right?

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1 hour ago, Anastasis said:

Amash runs for president as an L. Donald refuses the presidential debates. So then invite Kamala/Warren and Amash. That would be great.  

Trump’s ego won’t let him duck every debate against a woman. He thinks he’s smarter than her as well.

She’s probably call him a coward as well, which would drive him nuts.

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On 7/4/2019 at 11:09 AM, David Dennison said:

 

"No Collusion, No Obstruction!" Geez, it's like he's been able to turn that into an e-sneeze.

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On 7/6/2019 at 12:17 PM, Anastasis said:

Here is the WaPo piece he wrote. High five for leading with the political death spiral. 

 

Justin Amash: Our politics is in a partisan death spiral. That’s why I’m leaving the GOP.

Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan listens as he is introduced during a town hall event in Grand Rapids on May 28. (Jeff Kowalsky/Bloomberg)

By Justin Amash 

Justin Amash, an independent, represents Michigan’s 3rd Congressional District in the House. 

When my dad was 16, America welcomed him as a Palestinian refugee. It wasn’t easy moving to a new country, but it was the greatest blessing of his life.

Throughout my childhood, my dad would remind my brothers and me of the challenges he faced before coming here and how fortunate we were to be Americans. In this country, he told us, everyone has an opportunity to succeed regardless of background.

Growing up, I thought a lot about the brilliance of America. Our country’s founders established a constitutional republic uniquely dedicated to securing the rights of the people. In fact, they designed a political system so ordered around liberty that, in succeeding generations, the Constitution itself would strike back against the biases and blind spots of its authors.

My parents, both immigrants, were Republicans. I supported Republican candidates throughout my early adult life and then successfully ran for office as a Republican. The Republican Party, I believed, stood for limited government, economic freedom and individual liberty — principles that had made the American Dream possible for my family.

In recent years, though, I’ve become disenchanted with party politics and frightened by what I see from it. The two-party system has evolved into an existential threat to American principles and institutions.

Rep. Justin Amash defended his critical remarks of President Trump during a May 28 Michigan town hall. On July 4, he announced he would be leaving the Republican Party. (WZZM)

George Washington was so concerned as he watched political parties take shape in America that he dedicated much of his farewell address to warning that partisanship, although “inseparable from our nature,” was the people’s “worst enemy.” He observed that it was “the interest and duty of a wise people to discourage and restrain it.”

Washington said of partisanship, in one of America’s most prescient addresses: “The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty. …

“It serves always to distract the public councils and enfeeble the public administration. It agitates the community with ill-founded jealousies and false alarms, kindles the animosity of one part against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door to foreign influence and corruption, which finds a facilitated access to the government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another.”

True to Washington’s fears, Americans have allowed government officials, under assertions of expediency and party unity, to ignore the most basic tenets of our constitutional order: separation of powers, federalism and the rule of law. The result has been the consolidation of political power and the near disintegration of representative democracy.

These are consequences of a mind-set among the political class that loyalty to party is more important than serving the American people or protecting our governing institutions. The parties value winning for its own sake, and at whatever cost. Instead of acting as an independent branch of government and serving as a check on the executive branch, congressional leaders of both parties expect the House and Senate to act in obedience or opposition to the president and their colleagues on a partisan basis.

In this hyperpartisan environment, congressional leaders use every tool to compel party members to stick with the team, dangling chairmanships, committee assignments, bill sponsorships, endorsements and campaign resources. As donors recognize the growing power of party leaders, they supply these officials with ever-increasing funds, which, in turn, further tightens their grip on power.

The founders envisioned Congress as a deliberative body in which outcomes are discovered. We are fast approaching the point, however, where Congress exists as little more than a formality to legitimize outcomes dictated by the president, the speaker of the House and the Senate majority leader.

With little genuine debate on policy happening in Congress, party leaders distract and divide the public by exploiting wedge issues and waging pointless messaging wars. These strategies fuel mistrust and anger, leading millions of people to take to social media to express contempt for their political opponents, with the media magnifying the most extreme voices. This all combines to reinforce the us-vs.-them, party-first mind-set of government officials.

Modern politics is trapped in a partisan death spiral, but there is an escape.

Most Americans are not rigidly partisan and do not feel well represented by either of the two major parties. In fact, the parties have become more partisan in part because they are catering to fewer people, as Americans are rejecting party affiliation in record numbers.

These same independent-minded Americans, however, tend to be less politically engaged than Red Team and Blue Team activists. Many avoid politics to focus on their own lives, while others don’t want to get into the muck with the radical partisans.

But we owe it to future generations to stand up for our constitutional republic so that Americans may continue to live free for centuries to come. Preserving liberty means telling the Republican Party and the Democratic Party that we’ll no longer let them play their partisan game at our expense.

Today, I am declaring my independence and leaving the Republican Party. No matter your circumstance, I’m asking you to join me in rejecting the partisan loyalties and rhetoric that divide and dehumanize us. I’m asking you to believe that we can do better than this two-party system — and to work toward it. If we continue to take America for granted, we will lose it.

Good for him, his method of going about it is interesting as opposed Rand and Massie's strategy of trying to change the Republican party from within.  Having followed Amash closely for some time now, the claims he's "grandstanding" and doing it for selfish reasons other than Liberty and the Constitution is incredibly out of touch with reality.  I assume many on the left hate it because it could possibly steal votes from their nominee if he happens to run for the LP (which is an absolute joke with that little bitch Nick Sarwark as chairman.) 

We need like 500 more like him.  

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I’m pretty sure Rand’s strategy is now just to do whatever Trump and the RNC want him to do so he can keep his seat.

I can’t really attribute too many cynical motives to Amash.  Running for President as a libertarian, if he even does, isn’t some fast track to stardom and lucrative book and tv deals.  The only time any media outlet (other than a Reason webcast or something) would even want to feature him is during the 2020 campaign as an anti-Trump commentator, which he can’t do if he’s running for President.  

He’s going to lose his seat in Congress over this and probably end his career in politics.  If it was just about getting his, he would have been better off playing nice with the Republican Party.  That’s why literally every other GOP sack of shit is falling in line.

Edited by longhornmatt

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Flip Texas to....the libertarians? Do you live next to bernorange?

That flip likely never happens.  In general, people don't care enough about rules, systems, history and the nature of governments.  They trust too much in people.  Even with the current clown show in DC, people aren't going to wake up.

Amash was one of the few people not putting personal interest as his primary consideration in the calculus driving his decisions.  We need more Reps like him.  True courage in the face of the machine.  He did not kneel before Zod.  Fuck the haters.

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* bump *

Amash getting some help from anti-Trump gop operatives.  How strange it is to see machine cogs helping a liberty candidate.  Is hell freezing over?

https://reason.com/2019/12/19/mccain-conservatives-are-rallying-behind-justin-amash/

Also, rumblings from the Libertarian Party that they would welcome Amash as their 2020 POTUS candidate...

https://www.salon.com/2019/12/17/libertarians-eye-amash-for-2020-party-chair-says-impeachment-role-could-boost-ex-republican/

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