Band of Brothers

[Macanudo 12917]

Very cool find.   I don't spend  a lot of time on Youtube but I know what I'll have on in the background for a while.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

On 12/30/2020 at 5:32 PM, Homercles said:

Cant remember where I read that, maybe Biggest Brother...but pretty sure that’s the term he used there when he’s smiling at the boy.  Winters never liked that part of it. 

Yep, I always thought it was a part of the whole shooting of the boy in the Market Garden campaign.  No homoerotica felt in that scene.....

[Hate 20095]

Yeah, I never for a second thought of anything other than the juxtaposition of a “boy” in Paris versus a “boy” on the battlefield. I thought it was a powerful scene.

[Homercles 10205]

Yeah I don’t want to put words into the mans mouth if I can’t cite the source, especially as it is not typical language he seemed to use...but it stuck with me enough that I feel like I read it, or similarly strong quotes, elsewhere about that scene.  
 

Yeah obviously I got the words wrong years after reading this:  https://books.google.com/books?id=J9KDEkQVgNsC&pg=PA259&lpg=PA259&dq=dick+winters+paris+scene+band+of+brothers.interview&source=bl&ots=edOnBu3hni&sig=ACfU3U1k0yW6bmE-a9lmZlrWqv_4d0R5lg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjVwb-d1o3uAhUIOq0KHcJnCE0Q6AEwHnoECCUQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

Starting with ‘He roundly hates the scene’ is apparently where I was referencing. 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Homercles

[Sbbruin 21690]

On History Channel right now

[HouTex 1841]

I tear up every time at the end when one of the men recite the famous line from Henry V. I’m 58 and my age group (+/- 5 years) didn’t fight a major war. My great regret in life is not serving in the military.

[Wade 463]

1 hour ago, HouTex said:

I tear up every time at the end when one of the men recite the famous line from Henry V. I’m 58 and my age group (+/- 5 years) didn’t fight a major war. My great regret in life is not serving in the military.

I'm 57 and feel the same way.  What people may not fully understand was how lowly regarded the military was when we graduated high school (just before Reagan).  The stink from Vietnam was still strong, and it was basically a last chance bastion for losers and criminals.  No one I knew even gave a thought to joining. 

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

48 minutes ago, Wade said:

I'm 57 and feel the same way.  What people may not fully understand was how lowly regarded the military was when we graduated high school (just before Reagan).  The stink from Vietnam was still strong, and it was basically a last chance bastion for losers and criminals.  No one I knew even gave a thought to joining. 

Damn I hate reading these words, but you're spot on.  Maybe the absolute lowest point was the failed helicopter rescue attempt of the Iranian hostages.  The bombing of the bunker in Beriut wasn't exactly a great moment either.

The change in the military did occur under Reagan for sure though.  I can't ever begin to express how proud I've been of our sons choice to Join the military, and now that he could make some really serious dollars in the defense contractor world he's remained in the service.

I had a few close friends go Navy, but other than that nobody wanted anything to do with it.  I gave it about a minutes thought.  Today ?  I might have chosen differently.  Many Fortune 500 firms seek out ex military because of their potential leadership, and team working skills.  

Va, Tech has actually added a civilian track in the corps of cadets for kids who want the corps experience, but probably won't go military. They've teamed up with at least 50 companies now (and the list is growing) that provide internship programs that use the VT corps as one of its favorite recruitting locations.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Onboard 2.0

[HouTex 1841]

I'm 57 and feel the same way.  What people may not fully understand was how lowly regarded the military was when we graduated high school (just before Reagan).  The stink from Vietnam was still strong, and it was basically a last chance bastion for losers and criminals.  No one I knew even gave a thought to joining. 

Yep. Many evil assholes took out their political views on the war against the returning Viet Nam vets, many of whom had no choice. A shameful time in our history.

[pops 6971]

8 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

On History Channel right now

Watching it with my 8 year old. He won't get it but Holy fuck. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The must powerful thing I've ever seen on TV or big screen. Should be required viewing for every American citizen  to show how good we can be when we need to. No cr. 

Dreading "why we fight".  Fucking makes me a mess every time. 

[WhatTheBuck 28696]

6 hours ago, HouTex said:

I tear up every time at the end when one of the men recite the famous line from Henry V. I’m 58 and my age group (+/- 5 years) didn’t fight a major war. My great regret in life is not serving in the military.

You need to go back and watch the Bastogne episodes and then seriously reconsider your opinion. 

[Gatorubet 30023]

You need to go back and watch the Bastogne episodes and then seriously reconsider your opinion. 

Yup. My dad was a tank commander in the 9th Armored Division in WWII. He fought for days protecting the crossroads town of St. Vith from the 5th Panzer/German hands. St. Vith is not as famous, but was arguably more important than Bastogne in thwarting the German timetable.

The 9th had 50% casualties by war’s end. His brother’s spine was severed at Anzio by shrapnel, leaving him without use of his legs. Dad told me that after Malmedy he took no SS prisoners for a while. Let that sink in.

He had no use for, or love of, war.

[HouTex 1841]

You need to go back and watch the Bastogne episodes and then seriously reconsider your opinion. 

I saw those episodes and the entire series in the last couple of weeks. My view has remain unchanged. War is hell. Regretting not serving in the military is not the same as hoping to engage in a desperate battle.

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

6 hours ago, HouTex said:

I saw those episodes and the entire series in the last couple of weeks. My view has remain unchanged. War is hell. Regretting not serving in the military is not the same as hoping to engage in a desperate battle.

If it was a good enough goal for Patton....

[Sbbruin 21690]

13 hours ago, pops said:

Watching it with my 8 year old. He won't get it but Holy fuck. I've said it before and I'll say it again. The must powerful thing I've ever seen on TV or big screen. Should be required viewing for every American citizen  to show how good we can be when we need to. No cr. 

Dreading "why we fight".  Fucking makes me a mess every time. 

I was watching that episode around 10:30 last night, and decided to record it and watch it today instead.  I didn’t need that to be the last thing I watched before going to bed.

[TwiceHorn 31085]

I'm the same era as you guys, but while I sensed that the military perhaps wasn't what it was, I didn't see it as a "poor option" for that reason.

I initiated the process to "apply" to the USNA, but bailed before I got very far along.  You have to start it earlier than most college applications (I was a freshman) and I sensed that I wasn't mature enough to understand the commitment.  The other thing that persuaded me not to continue was the notion that there was likely an applicant who wouldn't attend college any other way,  I was an Eagle Scout and after expressing interest, attended several preparatory meetings with congressional liaisons for appointments.  They do a pretty good job of talking you out of it, or talking to you seriously about it.

I sometimes wish I had stayed with it.

[WhatTheBuck 28696]

17 hours ago, HouTex said:

I tear up every time at the end when one of the men recite the famous line from Henry V. I’m 58 and my age group (+/- 5 years) didn’t fight a major war. My great regret in life is not serving in the military.

 

7 hours ago, HouTex said:

I saw those episodes and the entire series in the last couple of weeks. My view has remain unchanged. War is hell. Regretting not serving in the military is not the same as hoping to engage in a desperate battle.

Regretting not serving is one thing. If you regret not having the chance to fight in a major war then that’s just foolishness. 

[Gatorubet 30023]

Yup. My dad was a tank commander in the 9th Armored Division in WWII. He fought for days protecting the crossroads town of St. Vith from the 5th Panzer/German hands. St. Vith is not as famous, but was arguably more important than Bastogne in thwarting the German timetable.

His unit (Combat Command B of the 14th Tank battalion) happened upon a bridge at Remagen a couple months later that was not completely destroyed by the Germans. They hoped to use the Rhine river as a defensive barrier. His tank “Blondie” was one of the first tanks over that bridge into Germany. He walked in front of his tank in the dark, guiding it around holes in the bridge floor, while snipers pinged away at them.

He said the German counter-attacks to retake the bridge and destroy it was worse fighting than the Bulge battle the previous December. Amazing he made it home.

[Brisketexan 104226]

Regretting not serving is one thing. If you regret not having the chance to fight in a major war then that’s just foolishness. 

A MINOR war, however...would have loved the thrill of fighting Cubans with Gunny Highway and saving naked showering medical students in Grenada. That was a documentary, right?

[Sbbruin 21690]

2 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

His unit (Combat Command B of the 14th Tank battalion) happened upon a bridge at Remagen a couple months later that was not completely destroyed by the Germans. They hoped to use the Rhine river as a defensive barrier. His tank “Blondie” was one of the first tanks over that bridge into Germany. He walked in front of his tank in the dark, guiding it around holes in the bridge floor, while snipers pinged away at them.

He said the German counter-attacks to retake the bridge and destroy it was worse fighting than the Bulge battle the previous December. Amazing he made it home.

Intense.

just watched “Why We Fight” and have tears in my eyes just thinking about the reality of what that must have been like.

[mininghorn88 2250]

2 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

His unit (Combat Command B of the 14th Tank battalion) happened upon a bridge at Remagen a couple months later that was not completely destroyed by the Germans. They hoped to use the Rhine river as a defensive barrier. His tank “Blondie” was one of the first tanks over that bridge into Germany. He walked in front of his tank in the dark, guiding it around holes in the bridge floor, while snipers pinged away at them.

He said the German counter-attacks to retake the bridge and destroy it was worse fighting than the Bulge battle the previous December. Amazing he made it home.

Great photo of some tough men.

[Gatorubet 30023]

Intense.
just watched “Why We Fight” and have tears in my eyes just thinking about the reality of what that must have been like.

He was regular Army before Pearl Harbor, an old horse Cavalry Trooper turned tanker. Like most tank commanders, he was a sergeant. But looking at his battlefield commission record, it recites a list of instances where he assumed command in fire fights after the platoon leader (a Lieutenant) was killed. I mean, lots of times. Eventually they kicked him to Lt. since he was doing it anyway.

Got shot in the arm twice - too slow closing his hatch. Flesh wounds not bad enough to make him leave his crew. At 27, he was ‘the old man’. Brad Pitt was waaay too old in Fury. Most of his crew looks like babies.

[mininghorn88 2250]

14 hours ago, Gatorubet said:

Yup. My dad was a tank commander in the 9th Armored Division in WWII. He fought for days protecting the crossroads town of St. Vith from the 5th Panzer/German hands. St. Vith is not as famous, but was arguably more important than Bastogne in thwarting the German timetable.

The 9th had 50% casualties by war’s end. His brother’s spine was severed at Anzio by shrapnel, leaving him without use of his legs. Dad told me that after Malmedy he took no SS prisoners for a while. Let that sink in.

He had no use for, or love of, war.

 

34 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

He was regular Army before Pearl Harbor, an old horse Cavalry Trooper turned tanker. Like most tank commanders, he was a sergeant. But looking at his battlefield commission record, it recites a list of instances where he assumed command in fire fights after the platoon leader (a Lieutenant) was killed. I mean, lots of times. Eventually they kicked him to Lt. since he was doing it anyway.

Got shot in the arm twice - too slow closing his hatch. Flesh wounds not bad enough to make him leave his crew. At 27, he was ‘the old man’. Brad Pitt was waaay too old in Fury. Most of his crew looks like babies.

Below are images of a 9th AD Lieutenant uniform (from my collection) of a soldier that also received a battlefield commission late in the War much like your father

.

[Gatorubet 30023]

Awesome! I bet he knew the original owner.

[4HE 156]

One of my favorites. I remember being excited when The Pacific was first coming out after I had seen Band of Brothers. After watching, though, I remember it being almost depressing. That’s what made me dive deeper into studying the Pacific campaign. It amazes me how different the two theaters were. 

[WhatTheBuck 28696]

7 hours ago, Sbbruin said:

Intense.

just watched “Why We Fight” and have tears in my eyes just thinking about the reality of what that must have been like.

For anyone who doesn’t know, Why We Fight was the name given to a series of propaganda films directed by Frank Capra (Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, It’s a Wonderful Life, etc.) and shown to U.S. troops to sell them on the war effort. That was well before anyone knew about the subject matter of the BoB episode which adopted that name. Check them out if you’ve never seen them. They’re cinematic classics and I’m sure Spielberg studied them in film school alongside the works of Leni Riefenstahl and Sergei Eisenstein. 

[mininghorn88 2250]

24 minutes ago, WhatTheBuck said:

For anyone who doesn’t know, Why We Fight was the name given to a series of propaganda films directed by Frank Capra (Mr. Smith Goes to Washington, It’s a Wonderful Life, etc.) and shown to U.S. troops to sell them on the war effort. That was well before anyone knew about the subject matter of the BoB episode which adopted that name. Check them out if you’ve never seen them. They’re cinematic classics and I’m sure Spielberg studied them in film school alongside the works of Leni Riefenstahl and Sergei Eisenstein. 

Why We Fight by Capra is great watching. I have it on DVD. Highly recommend.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8795]

I’ve never been to Germany despite being like 80% German, but for those who have...is it kind of a total mind fuck going there? I mean I wouldn’t be help but think walking around a town of Berlin seeing ordinary locals knowing likely their grandparents fought against ours?

[tx 3 putt 75959]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I mean I wouldn’t be help but think walking around a town of Berlin seeing ordinary locals knowing likely their grandparents fought against ours?

 

I thought that more than once, my first trip to Argentina !

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

3 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I’ve never been to Germany despite being like 80% German, but for those who have...is it kind of a total mind fuck going there? I mean I wouldn’t be help but think walking around a town of Berlin seeing ordinary locals knowing likely their grandparents fought against ours?

  Spent 2 weeks there in '14, and didn't have many thoughts about that scenario.  

[Homercles 10205]

6 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I’ve never been to Germany despite being like 80% German, but for those who have...is it kind of a total mind fuck going there? I mean I wouldn’t be help but think walking around a town of Berlin seeing ordinary locals knowing likely their grandparents fought against ours?

I’ve been there three times with once being for a month as an adult (while my WWII vet grandpa was there for a week as well).  Despite the language barrier, I’d rather live in Germany over any other European country...except maybe Holland because Amsterdam is just amazing all around.  It’s unbelievably gorgeous, the people are curt but polite towards outsiders, transportation is outstanding, it’s incredibly clean, and everything is organized with almost brutal efficiency that you pick up the customs quickly...they also know how to Christmas better than anyplace on earth.  
 

While talking to my grandfather about his perspective on the war, I found his take 20 years ago essentially mirrored what Ambrose said in the book, that nowhere in theater did GIs find find people who were more like them.    I can absolutely see that and Shifty said as much in the series.  

Edited January 25, 2021 by Homercles

[TwiceHorn 31085]

My Dad fought in the PTO.  Within 15 years, his company worked closely with Sony and then other Japanese companies.  It wasn't a big issue.

He was in the Navy, so it wasn't like he was hand-to-hand with them.  Although they did see some kamikaze pilots fairly up close and personal and they picked up a dead one for some reason off Wotje after taking a 6" shell that raised the deck in my Dad's cabin.

[HouTex 1841]

My brother worked in Germany for over a year in the late 90’s and I asked him how most Germans viewed the war and Nazism. He said the common view was that Hitler and his cronies were evil and crazy but that Germans are still better than everyone else.

[bullzak 407]

My step dad was in the Pacific. He was married at the time and his wife got word that his ship, the USS Quincy, was sunk at Guadalcanal with 370 dead. News blackouts being in place at the time she found out a bit later he had been transferred to another ship before they set out. 

Then he was at D Day Iwo Jima. Pretty sure he was in shore party heading right for the main landing strip at Iwo. 4 of 14 KIA. 

Then later involved in battle of Okinawa, when the kamikazes really started. 

Was in middle of Pacific and wrote letter to his wife and two sons saying he would never see them again because they were preparing for invasion of Japan. Then we dropped the bomb. 

His crew called him the Old Man. Out of Navy in December 1945 at age 26. 

These guys were YOUNG. 

He didnt say a lot about it but I knew enough. Said the kamikazes at Okinawa were scarier than Iwo. When he died we went through his personal effects. I have a big Iwo Jima G-2 situation map that he took ashore on my wall, with the ships orders of the day as provenance. 

Look at it every day and think about what those men went through and I am thankful. 

[Macanudo 12917]

Are we just going to gloss over mininghorn's "collection" and the pictures showing a room full of uniforms?

 

What the what?

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

4 minutes ago, Macanudo said:

Are we just going to gloss over mininghorn's "collection" and the pictures showing a room full of uniforms?

 

What the what?

Yeah, I haven't had time to really look at that pic yet, but it was impressive.

[mininghorn88 2250]

A few years ago I was in Belgium and Luxembourg.  I had the opportunity to visit the US Cemetery in Luxembourg where 5 soldiers referenced/featured in the Band of Brothers and General Patton are buried.  Seeing their graves hit me like a ton of bricks.

Sgt. Warren H. (Skip) Muck died in the Ardennes Forrest,  Foy, Belgium.  He was killed along with his buddy Alex Penkala when an artillery round hit their foxhole.

PFC Alex M. Penkala died in the Ardennes Forrest,  Foy, Belgium.

PFC John T. Julian died in Bastogne, Belgium.

PFC Kenneth J. Webb died in Bastogne, Belgium

PFC Patrick H. Neill died liberating Foy, Belgium

Patton

[The Royal We 3059]

I watched the first two episodes again last night after seeing this thread.  I think the book does a better job of painting the picture of Sobol, but Schwimmer did a pretty damn good job too.

Every time I watch it I catch a few more things that Winters said or did that made him such a great leader.  Cool as a cucumber under pressure and brass balls the size of grapefruits.

[DougO 5238]

Just logged into slickdeals, BoB and Pacific blu ray on sale for $10 each at Wal Mart.

 

https://slickdeals.net/f/14798029-hbo-band-of-brothers-or-the-pacific-blu-ray-or-westworld-the-complete-second-season-4k-uhd-blu-ray-9-96-each-free-s-h-on-35-via-walmart?src=frontpage

Edited January 26, 2021 by DougO

[The Ace of Aces 5102]

On 1/25/2021 at 12:37 AM, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I’ve never been to Germany despite being like 80% German, but for those who have...is it kind of a total mind fuck going there? I mean I wouldn’t be help but think walking around a town of Berlin seeing ordinary locals knowing likely their grandparents fought against ours?

My wife is German (well OK she's German-American but was born there and lived there for 13 years of her life). We go back every year (well pre-COVID). Outside of Berlin, you forget all about it mostly. In Berlin, it's a stark reminder of the horror of mankind. The Germans did this to remind everyone what happened. Germans consider it a dark period that they have overcome. 

Berlin is one of the best cities in the world. I recommend anyone go there - I miss it so much. 

 

[Brisketexan 104226]

My wife is German (well OK she's German-American but was born there and lived there for 13 years of her life). We go back every year (well pre-COVID). Outside of Berlin, you forget all about it mostly. In Berlin, it's a stark reminder of the horror of mankind. The Germans did this to remind everyone what happened. Germans consider it a dark period that they have overcome. 
Berlin is one of the best cities in the world. I recommend anyone go there - I miss it so much. 
 

Agree with all of this. Germany was never even on our list, but then both our kids decided to specialize in the language. We’ve had frank conversations with german friends about the war and their history, and man...their museums don’t shy away from telling the story of how they went down an awful road. No whitewashing, just matter of fact analysis.

And yeah...turns out that Berlin is one of our favorite cities in the world. As in, we have talked about living there part time come our retirement years. And we hardly speak any German (we’d surely need to fix that, but that said...most folks speak some English). It’s a great city, with an incredible vibe and energy. We do miss it.

[bullzak 407]

As for BOB, my teenage kids were talking at dinner one night about various political views among their peers such as kneeling during the anthem and not saying the pledge etc. I thought it important to remind them that although we live in a country where people should be free to think and do such things, that right was bought by good people who died for their country. 

So we are watching BOB because in my view WWII was truly an epic struggle of good vs. evil and thankfully good won, this time. A timely history lesson for them. 

[henrygandorf 29169]

been a while but doing a rewatch and wanted to state that crossroads, while often overlooked, is incredibly underrated. 

[RPM 26167]

I love BoB but it's almost unwatchable (ok, highly frustrating) on History with all the commercial breaks. 

[Guest Lobo]

Band of Brothers' casting also deserves high praise, whoever those people were.  Every damn war movie, Hollywood does the same shit over and over again---they cast these grizzled looking 30-somethings as privates to show how war ages a man, takes its toll on his face.  They cast 40 year olds as staff sergeants and 50 year olds as Captains.  I get that maybe for "End of the War" type movies, sorta. 

But Band of Brothers gets it right when you watch the early episodes, the guys look and sound young.  Not all leathery and steeled by battles they haven't seen yet.  Sure they look older and tattered towards the end, but that's the point.  I look at photographs of my grandfather and granduncle in WWII Navy, they look like children.  Movies always insist on having us believe these were these hardened old souls made of guts and glory with improper casting.  When in reality, the world was saved by boys heading out to sea.  

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

5 hours ago, RPM said:

I love BoB but it's almost unwatchable (ok, highly frustrating) on History with all the commercial breaks. 

Brah... do you not need bathroom breaks, bourbon, and snack refills ??

[JOSEYWALES66 1789]

21 hours ago, The Royal We said:

I watched the first two episodes again last night after seeing this thread.  I think the book does a better job of painting the picture of Sobol, but Schwimmer did a pretty damn good job too.

Every time I watch it I catch a few more things that Winters said or did that made him such a great leader.  Cool as a cucumber under pressure and brass balls the size of grapefruits.

From Sobol's Wiki page, 

"In 1970, Sobel shot himself in the head with a small-caliber pistol in an attempted suicide. The bullet entered his left temple, passed behind his eyes, and exited the other side of his head. This severed his optic nerves and left him blind. Soon afterward, he began living at a VA assisted living facility in Waukegan, Illinois.  He died there of malnutrition on 30 September 1987. No memorial services were held for him."

That's no way for anyone to die.

[The Royal We 3059]

2 minutes ago, JOSEYWALES66 said:

From Sobol's Wiki page, 

"In 1970, Sobel shot himself in the head with a small-caliber pistol in an attempted suicide. The bullet entered his left temple, passed behind his eyes, and exited the other side of his head. This severed his optic nerves and left him blind. Soon afterward, he began living at a VA assisted living facility in Waukegan, Illinois.  He died there of malnutrition on 30 September 1987. No memorial services were held for him."

That's no way for anyone to die.

Damn, I never knew that.  And I completely agree, no one deserves that.

[RPM 26167]

1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Brah... do you not need bathroom breaks, bourbon, and snack refills ??

That's what the pause button is for.

[SuingToGetAMessageBoard? 3861]

How shitty would it be to volunteer to fight for your country just to have the seminal popular work on it portray you as the bad guy