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2020 astros offseason

elfenix

By elfenix
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Eastwood
Eastwood

Here's the thing that makes me absolutely livid about this... Cheating happens all the time in baseball. At all levels. All levels. The MLB itself cheats the game by juicing the ball. Players juiced t

Asithappens
Asithappens

It's not the end, I agree. The Astros are still sacks of giant shit, though.  Shame on them.

Asithappens
Asithappens

Very sad to see that the Astros are basically dipshit cheaters from the top down. Hey, at least the Black Sox are happy that someone else is wearing their crown of infamy.    

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The_Great_Hornsby

The_Great_Hornsby 3306

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2 hours ago, Lat22 said:

Vince’s knee was down when he threw that TD to Ramonce. 

First it was not a throw, it was a lateral, second it was not Ramonce, it was Selvin Young, third, it wouldve been first and goal and we also missed an extra point because we rushed to avoid the review

So much fail in one post, yikes

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tx 3 putt

tx 3 putt 74768

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usa today shortlist :

 

That said, here are some of the best options on the market:

– Joe Espada (currently Astros bench coach): The 44-year-old is considered a rising star and had multiple interviews for a managerial job this winter. Espada didn't join the organization until after the 2017 season – so his hands are technically clean – but Crane (and the league) may feel more comfortable with an outside hire, particularly since MLB's report was such an indictment on the club's culture.

– Dusty Baker: Hiring a baseball man like Baker would give the organization some desperately-needed credibility right now. Baker, 70, is one of the game's most accomplished managers and though his teams have repeatedly come up short in the postseason, his experience dealing with big egos might be exactly what the Astros need.

– Buck Showalter: Another skipper with plenty of experience, Showalter could be a stabilizing force at this junction for Houston. He's just one season removed from his last stint and was said to be a candidate for a few jobs this offseason.

– John Gibbons: The former Blue Jays manager is eager to get back in the game and is one of the few free agents with managerial experience. He's a real players' manager and oversaw some very good Toronto teams. Gibbons was raised and resides in San Antonio so the local roots are there and may be more willing to take the nearby job on a whim than some other candidates.

– Bruce Bochy: This one is unlikely considering Bochy is barely three months into "retired life," but he hasn't officially ruled out a return to the bench at some point. “I just hope I made the right decision,” Bochy told USA TODAY Sports in September. “I don’t want to be sitting around next summer wishing I was still managing. I want to be sure this is right.”

 

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UTexasFight

UTexasFight 9288

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Someone mentioned Kim Ng for GM. Works in MLB, interviewed for 4 different west coast GM jobs. Great PR to hire the first woman GM

You’re proposing hiring someone that didn’t get a job in 4 tries and because it’ll “look good”.

Absent any other facts, that seems like a sure fire way to be back on track to losing 100+ for 3 years in a row.
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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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7 hours ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

First it was not a throw, it was a lateral, second it was not Ramonce, it was Selvin Young, third, it wouldve been first and goal and we also missed an extra point because we rushed to avoid the review

So much fail in one post, yikes

You know, him bringing up that play brings up an interesting point. Only Longhorn/Houston fans face that type of scrutiny for their wins. LSU had a receiver put his whole hand down out of bounds yesterday, but it wasn't reviewed.  Rockets get asterisks for Jordan's retirement. Spurs 99 title is considered earned even though Jordan retired early because of the lockout. Astros 17 title gets an asterisk. Red Sox 18 is gonna be considered clean even when they get penalized for the same thing. 

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WBT

WBT 20131

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6 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

You know, him bringing up that play brings up an interesting point. Only Longhorn/Houston fans face that type of scrutiny for their wins. LSU had a receiver put his whole hand down out of bounds yesterday, but it wasn't reviewed.  Rockets get asterisks for Jordan's retirement. Spurs 99 title is considered earned even though Jordan retired early because of the lockout. Astros 17 title gets an asterisk. Red Sox 18 is gonna be considered clean even when they get penalized for the same thing. 

You only know all that shit because you have rabbit ears for it.

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Lat22

Lat22 3941

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8 hours ago, The_Great_Hornsby said:

First it was not a throw, it was a lateral, second it was not Ramonce, it was Selvin Young, third, it wouldve been first and goal and we also missed an extra point because we rushed to avoid the review

So much fail in one post, yikes

I wasn't exactly clear headed when I made that post. 😀

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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22 minutes ago, WBT said:

You only know all that shit because you have rabbit ears for it.

Not really. AFAIK, the Rockets titles are the only ones in history to widely be mentioned as * by sportscasters nationwide when no cheating occurred.

Also, the Sox and Yankees were already caught for the same thing as the Astros in 2017. The Red Sox look like they did the same thing in 2018. All the front page fury is Astros directed. Half the articles even paint the Red Sox as victims.  The Red Sox will get a  page 8 hand slap and Cora will be fired quietly when their investigation concludes. 

True on VY though. Nobody questions that title. Still the greatest of all time. 

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Cornfusion

Cornfusion 250

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Only Longhorn/Houston fans face that type of scrutiny for their wins

2017 Astros didn't get the scrutiny for their wins.  They got the scrutiny for their cheating.

Maybe Hinch and Luhnow can now take long bike rides in the country with Lance Armstrong and discuss how fickle fate can be.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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6 minutes ago, Cornfusion said:

2017 Astros didn't get the scrutiny for their wins.  They got the scrutiny for their cheating.

Maybe Hinch and Luhnow can now take long bike rides in the country with Lance Armstrong and discuss how fickle fate can be.

The thing is, unlike Lance Armstrong being the only winner in the heavy doping era, the Red Sox won the very next title cheating just like the Astros did. 

So the cheating Yankees and the doped up losers from Armstrong's day can bitch all day that they were robbed and maybe be right. The Astros simply shouldnt be the only ones taking shit for it. 

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huge

huge 3766

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18 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

Not really. AFAIK, the Rockets titles are the only ones in history to widely be mentioned as * by sportscasters nationwide when no cheating occurred.

Also, the Sox and Yankees were already caught for the same thing as the Astros in 2017. The Red Sox look like they did the same thing in 2018. All the front page fury is Astros directed. Half the articles even paint the Red Sox as victims.  The Red Sox will get a  page 8 hand slap and Cora will be fired quietly when their investigation concludes. 

True on VY though. Nobody questions that title. Still the greatest of all time. 

Get over the persecution complex.  Any team that won 94/95 was going to be scrutinized due to the Jordan deal.  If the Knicks won in 94 you dont think they would have been made fun of for finally getting something done when Jordan wasn't there?

And this bed?  We fucking made it.  Now we sleep in it like men.  Men with a ring.  And we don't whine about shit, we go about our business and get back to winning baseball games.

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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Just now, huge said:

Get over the persecution complex.  Any team that won 94/95 was going to be scrutinized due to the Jordan deal.  If the Knicks won in 94 you dont think they would have been made fun of for finally getting something done when Jordan wasn't there?

And this bed?  We fucking made it.  Now we sleep in it like men.  Men with a ring.  And we don't whine about shit, we go about our business and get back to winning baseball games.

Hey man. Just giving opinions. Personally, I think the league was lenient. I think Crane should have fired Hinch, but not Luhnow. And I like the super negative press. I think it will give the Astros a chip on their shoulder that was missing last year. 

I just also think that the Sox should face the same music. 

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mbtex

mbtex 683

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The whole thing is a load of crap. Players have been stealing signs since the beginning of Baseball. Why the fuck do catchers go through multiple signs if they haven't. They should take all technology out of the dugout then. They encourage this by having tablets and monitors throughout MLB. Fuck them it is just another witch hunt.

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pepper brooks

pepper brooks 578

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from the article above, "That choice registered publicly as another curious part of Manfred's ultimate decision. What sort of disciplinary action clears players for a "player-driven" scheme? The answer is a practical one. Between the well-defined lines that held GMs and managers responsible and the fear of the Major League Baseball Players Association defending any discipline against active players and sending the cases into grievance hell, Manfred's pragmatism here, though not satisfying, is understandable."

 

the same can be said of Hinch.  He was in an impossible position where if he alerts anyone he becomes a rat for outing his players at which point his ability to manage them is compromised.  Players are not going to accept a manager who is a rat and does not have his back.  think about the socioeconomic background of many and how they see authority figures.  Hinch busted up the monitor they were using which should have been a clear message.  

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Cornfusion

Cornfusion 250

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Quote

The Astros simply shouldn't be the only ones taking shit for it. 

Okay, now your persecution complex is on full blown display.  Look at your quote and then tell me that  the 2017 Houston Astros are the "only ones taking shit for it"?  Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, and the New England Patriots never had any blow back on their cheating?

As for the "they all do it" excuse, it doesn't hold water.  "They" all don't cheat.  If all but one cyclist on the Tour de France doped, then that means that one honest guy was cheated by Lance Armstrong AND the other 99.9%.  Being one cheater in a crowd of cheaters doesn't make one any less of a cheater...right?

 

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gecko

gecko 1104

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40 minutes ago, mbtex said:

The whole thing is a load of crap. Players have been stealing signs since the beginning of Baseball. Why the fuck do catchers go through multiple signs if they haven't. They should take all technology out of the dugout then. They encourage this by having tablets and monitors throughout MLB. Fuck them it is just another witch hunt.

Can I steal this for use in my twitter wars....?

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53625

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49 minutes ago, FondrenRoad said:

The thing is, unlike Lance Armstrong being the only winner in the heavy doping era, the Red Sox won the very next title cheating just like the Astros did. 

So the cheating Yankees and the doped up losers from Armstrong's day can bitch all day that they were robbed and maybe be right. The Astros simply shouldnt be the only ones taking shit for it. 

How many times does it need to be pointed out that the Red Sox are also under investigation?

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FondrenRoad

FondrenRoad 4378

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12 minutes ago, Cornfusion said:

Okay, now your persecution complex is on full blown display.  Look at your quote and then tell me that  the 2017 Houston Astros are the "only ones taking shit for it"?  Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Mark McGwire, Sammy Sosa, and the New England Patriots never had any blow back on their cheating?

As for the "they all do it" excuse, it doesn't hold water.  "They" all don't cheat.  If all but one cyclist on the Tour de France doped, then that means that one honest guy was cheated by Lance Armstrong AND the other 99.9%.  Being one cheater in a crowd of cheaters doesn't make one any less of a cheater...right?

 

Why should Lance Armstrong and the Patriots take shit for sign stealing?  Tough to cheat in a sport you don't even play. The point is that the Astros are the only ones taking shit right now for this offense when there are other contemporary perpetrators.  One of those perpetrators won the same glory that the Astros did. 

While you are confused about the overall point, Bonds, McGwire, and Sosa are an apt comparison. All took shit for the same thing at the same time.  That's all I'm asking for here. 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53625

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29 minutes ago, pepper brooks said:

from the article above, "That choice registered publicly as another curious part of Manfred's ultimate decision. What sort of disciplinary action clears players for a "player-driven" scheme? The answer is a practical one. Between the well-defined lines that held GMs and managers responsible and the fear of the Major League Baseball Players Association defending any discipline against active players and sending the cases into grievance hell, Manfred's pragmatism here, though not satisfying, is understandable."

 

the same can be said of Hinch.  He was in an impossible position where if he alerts anyone he becomes a rat for outing his players at which point his ability to manage them is compromised.  Players are not going to accept a manager who is a rat and does not have his back.  think about the socioeconomic background of many and how they see authority figures.  Hinch busted up the monitor they were using which should have been a clear message.  

Quote

The Astros Players. Most of the position players on the 2017 team either received sign information from the banging scheme or participated in the scheme by helping to decode signs or bang on the trash can. Many of the players who were interviewed admitted that they knew the scheme was wrong because it crossed the line from what the player believed was fair competition and/or violated MLB rules. Players stated that if Manager A.J. Hinch told them to stop engaging in the conduct, they would have immediately stopped.

 

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53625

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47 minutes ago, mbtex said:

The whole thing is a load of crap. Players have been stealing signs since the beginning of Baseball. Why the fuck do catchers go through multiple signs if they haven't. They should take all technology out of the dugout then. They encourage this by having tablets and monitors throughout MLB.

Completely agree.  This would also fix the idiocy with replay, making it so that only obvious blown calls are challenged, and no more challenges for the guy sliding into a base bouncing above the base by a millimeter while the tag is on him.  

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Beau Vine

Beau Vine 53625

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, pepper brooks said:

I can tell you 100%, level 1, the bold quote is absolute bullshit.  

I can tell you 100%, level 1, that any opinion which doesn't agree with mine is absolute bullshit.

Actually, that's not even opinion -- you're accusing Astros players of lying.  

Edited by Beau Vine
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HtownHorn

HtownHorn 14285

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39 minutes ago, pepper brooks said:

from the article above, "That choice registered publicly as another curious part of Manfred's ultimate decision. What sort of disciplinary action clears players for a "player-driven" scheme? The answer is a practical one. Between the well-defined lines that held GMs and managers responsible and the fear of the Major League Baseball Players Association defending any discipline against active players and sending the cases into grievance hell, Manfred's pragmatism here, though not satisfying, is understandable."

 

the same can be said of Hinch.  He was in an impossible position where if he alerts anyone he becomes a rat for outing his players at which point his ability to manage them is compromised.  Players are not going to accept a manager who is a rat and does not have his back.  think about the socioeconomic background of many and how they see authority figures.  Hinch busted up the monitor they were using which should have been a clear message.  

Nah, Hinch could have told his underlings to stop with the cheating shit or your fired. He didn't. Or he could have benched anyone he suspected of cheating, he didn't.

I'm not sure the cheating was as wide spread on the team. Outside of Gattis and Beltran, where the evidence supports it. There is no way Altuve, Springer, and Bregman used it. Now I'm sure those guys picked up pitching tells and relayed them to the rest of the team, but those guys don't need to know what is coming to knock the shit out of it. 

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Huckleberry

Huckleberry 32142

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11 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Completely agree.  This would also fix the idiocy with replay, making it so that only obvious blown calls are challenged, and no more challenges for the guy sliding into a base bouncing above the base by a millimeter while the tag is on him.  

Yep. The only technology in the dugout should be the bullpen land line.

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DaysOff

DaysOff 7671

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Bochy would be the dream hire.  Manages the bullpen much better than Hinch, even started his career in Houston.  Circle of life, Bruce!
I'd be totally cool with this and also totally cool with promoting from within. All that pussy ass shit about culture? You mean the culture of skull fucking the rest of the league. It ain't broke that much, so don't fix it too much.
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