All Encompassing Mortgage and Real Estate Thread

[Neonmoon 38126]

Assuming people that bought in CenTex in past 18-24 months are underwater-ish is a HUGE assumption. The median sales prices for ALL property types is down only -3% year over year. Single Family Homes are up +0.3%. Townhomes are up +15.2%, and Condos are dragging shit down at -11.2%

https://www.redfin.com/city/30818/TX/Austin/housing-market

 

 

[Gil Bang 25504]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:06 PM, BeardIP said:

As an aside, was I the only one in the world who didn't have sex on prom night? I got drunk with a bunch of dudes in like a Fairfield Inn. ugh. That's probably why my interest rate sucks.

I stayed home that night to watch the Lakers take on the Spurs.    

In '82, I didn't need to rent a tux to get a blowjob.   And, I hate dancing. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

Down 40 in the mbs market to start the day. Yeeeeee Haaaaaaaaaw. 
retail sales came in hot. Or maybe it’s the shooting war between Iran and Israel. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

The update this morning was grim 

down 53 bips. 
Star pattern has broken. 
all support levels are broken. 
No rate cuts coming until maybe September at the earliest. 
look out below!

 

 

[UTPhil2006 3753]

Isn’t that what you wanted?

[Incredulity 11141]

58 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

No rate cuts coming until maybe September at the earliest. 

Unless the economy is in free fall(appears very, very unlikely) the Fed won't change rates in Q3 due to election.  

[Neonmoon 38126]

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

1 hour ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Isn’t that what you wanted?

It’s sort of funny in an absurdist kind of way. 
id like a range between 4 and 6 throughout the course of a year or two (or bussiness cycle). That seems healthy. 

[Gatorubet 29391]

4 hours ago, Neonmoon said:

THAT was a quick defiling!

[Neonmoon 38126]

21 minutes ago, Gatorubet said:

THAT was a quick defiling!

I posted it for you

[UTPhil2006 3753]

4.7xxx on the table today. Prob by lunch.  Were just at 3.7 late December. 

[Esque 135]

I strictly follow the US10Y.  Wild to see it back up at 4.70% this morning.  Seems like it wants to head to 5.00%.  We're only in April and no cuts on the horizon until late summer / early fall.

Also, I despise this is the market real estate market now.  Everyone is obsessed with the Fed and the key rate because everyone is putting rate bets on.  Need to end pretend and extend, wash out the losers, reset values, and move on.

[Neonmoon 38126]

Is there a way to bet on a Fed rate hike this year? I know it's a longshot, but I feel it would be a good payoff if it hits. 

[Blotto 23226]

53 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Is there a way to bet on a Fed rate hike this year? I know it's a longshot, but I feel it would be a good payoff if it hits. 

Buying puts on.....everything?  Alternately I have some money in a predictions site Kalshi that works the same way as PredictIt. The "yes" bet on a fed hike in 2024 is currently at $0.16, so you could make ~5X your money. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

1 hour ago, Esque said:

I strictly follow the US10Y.  Wild to see it back up at 4.70% this morning.  Seems like it wants to head to 5.00%.  We're only in April and no cuts on the horizon until late summer / early fall.

Also, I despise this is the market real estate market now.  Everyone is obsessed with the Fed and the key rate because everyone is putting rate bets on.  Need to end pretend and extend, wash out the losers, reset values, and move on.

Dude. No cuts incoming in summer. Maybe October. Maybe. But doubt it. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

Just now, Blotto said:

Buying puts on.....everything?  Alternately I have some money in a predictions site Kalshi that works the same way as PredictIt. The "yes" bet on a fed hike in 2024 is currently at $0.16, so you could make ~5X your money. 

What can you top out at- like $1,000?  That feels like a small emotional hedge (and it’s starting to look potentially like a good bet)

[Blotto 23226]

13 minutes ago, Wulaw Horn said:

What can you top out at- like $1,000?  That feels like a small emotional hedge (and it’s starting to look potentially like a good bet)

To be honest I cashed out of PredictIt and moved that money to Kalshi, but got busy with other shit and havent made a trade or really learned my way around the site.  This article claims the max investment per contract is $25K, but I would probably want to find that on their site before saying it with confidence. 

https://research.contrary.com/reports/kalshi

Quote

This business model allows Kalshi to cater to retail traders and differentiate itself from traditional bookmakers, as it does not have a stake in the outcome of events, and solely relies on transaction fees for its revenue generation. Other than a $2 fee any time a user makes a withdrawal from Kalshi to their linked bank account, Kalshi does not charge any settlement, wire, membership, or ACH fees. Additionally, Kalshi doesn’t allow margin or leverage trading, so the most users can lose on a trade is the total cost of purchased contracts, up to $25K.

Edit to add- they have all sorts of contracts for fed rates for every month. I dont follow shit nearly as closely you do for your job, but for instance for every month they have tiers like this. You guys can probably figure out a way to hedge your deal volume with this shit. 

Edited April 16 by Blotto

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

National average is at 7.44. Friendly reminder that doesn’t account for people paying points!

Actual with that factored in is probably something like 7.75. Pretty much back to the grim days of last October that it felt like we’d left behind. 
 

I’m lobbying tomorrow and Thursday in favor of banning consumer sales of trigger leads. Hopefully that goes better than the market has been. 
Woof. 

[Neonmoon 38126]

Yeah, that national average is going to go up after today. 

Pray we don't get a reprice. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

14 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

Yeah, that national average is going to go up after today. 

Pray we don't get a reprice. 

We getting a reprice brother. 

[Muny_Tex 284]

On 4/14/2024 at 2:00 PM, Neonmoon said:

Assuming people that bought in CenTex in past 18-24 months are underwater-ish is a HUGE assumption. The median sales prices for ALL property types is down only -3% year over year. Single Family Homes are up +0.3%. Townhomes are up +15.2%, and Condos are dragging shit down at -11.2%

https://www.redfin.com/city/30818/TX/Austin/housing-market

 

 

Sorry for late reply, but couple of things I believe the macro data is overlooking:

1.) The degree/extent to which buy-downs + other seller-paid concessions are propping-up / distorting "sale prices"; especially for SFH's.  

2.) Significant variance in transactions across different price-points.  If you double-clicked on homes under $500k vs. those above $1M I would imagine it's far from an equivalent story; particularly w.r.t price cuts, days on market, etc.  YoY comparisons are also inherently weird because 2023 was somewhat unique in terms of both super low listings and unusually low sales while people reacted to the new interest rate reality.

3.) Ultra-high end seems to be doing particularly bad.  Extreme example, but Chris Beard's Tarrytown den of iniquities has been on the market for over a year now and still ain't moving.  He's now baked in at least a $1.1M loss (not including sales commissions) from when he bought at the top of the top in 2021...so likely somewhere near a 25-30% bath when all is said and done.  It appears Sark also ate close to a $2M loss on his Rollingwood place he finally just offloaded.

By the same token, plenty of 'normal' people who bought in the bidding-war insanity of 2021 would also be selling at significant losses right now if they were faced with an equivalent "need" to sell.  Many are able to justify/sustain their situations thanks to their super-low rates, but that doesn't mean there isn't enormous price vulnerability across Austin if a real big-boy recession ever shows up (which may then impact appraisals for the 2023 buyers seeking to re-fi).  The cachet + hyper demand for Austin just is not the same as it was during peak Covid...and that story is already reflected within significant rent dcreases even in the premium parts of Central/West.  And no, I don't think this is a nationwide trend...the bandwagon just seems to have shifted from AUS/DEN/PHX/BOI etc over to other regions/markets (your neck of the woods in WNC is a prime beneficiary of that).

4.) Austin-proper and CenTex are different animals, particularly with regard to new-builds.  I think there are many exurb-style developments that are going to find themselves slashing prices massively (or eating the losses via in-house lending) if there is not significant rate improvement this year.  I don't doubt that demographic growth will continue in Texas indefinitely, I'm just not sure how many of the 'Texans of tomorrow' will be interested + capable of purchasing $400k tract home bullshit in the outskirts of New Braunfels.

All that stuff in aggregate is why I started to wonder about if the appraisals are gonna be sufficient to deliver re-fi rate relief for a lot of people who bought maybe a year or so ago.  They were too late to get the attractive rates, but also too early to get much significant price improvement.  However, Wulaw's insight (which was very helpful, btw) would indicate they're probably okay...at least on the supposition that lenders maintain their willingness to re-fi conventionals at 90-95%+ LTV in event of a recession.

 

 

Edited April 17 by Muny_Tex

[UTPhil2006 3753]

Been sitting here with @Ldogg53 and @tx 3 putt to watch the Astros lose. 

[jdhorn92 1524]

On 4/16/2024 at 8:37 AM, Esque said:

I strictly follow the US10Y.  Wild to see it back up at 4.70% this morning.  Seems like it wants to head to 5.00%.  We're only in April and no cuts on the horizon until late summer / early fall.

Also, I despise this is the market real estate market now.  Everyone is obsessed with the Fed and the key rate because everyone is putting rate bets on.  Need to end pretend and extend, wash out the losers, reset values, and move on.

Yeah I watch the US10Y closely as well.  Put a chunk of an inheritance in Vanguard Inflation Protected Fund several years ago thinking it would just keep pace with inflation and protect the principle.  Deposited the funds and forgot about it.  First time in my life to put $$ in a "Bond" fund.  Went to look at it recently and i'm down $40K and further research indicates it's all tied to the 10yr.  That's what I get for deviating from my Index stock fund strategy.  Got to wait it out now, its all in an inherited IRA anyway, but got to start taking money soon.

[Bozo_Casanova 25498]

2 hours ago, UTPhil2006 said:

Been sitting here with @Ldogg53 and @tx 3 putt to watch the Astros lose. 

Salute! Last fall they were the counterjinx when @Helobious jumped on the Rangers bandwagon in the playoffs. Inshallah your work continues. 

[Gil Bang 25504]

Just got a full price cash offer, 15 day close

 

 

 

[Helobious 9393]

1 hour ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Salute! Last fall they were the counterjinx when @Helobious jumped on the Rangers bandwagon in the playoffs. Inshallah your work continues. 

I carried you guys to a title. 

[Dbeasy 14733]

2 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

Yeah I watch the US10Y closely as well.  Put a chunk of an inheritance in Vanguard Inflation Protected Fund several years ago thinking it would just keep pace with inflation and protect the principle.  Deposited the funds and forgot about it.  First time in my life to put $$ in a "Bond" fund.  Went to look at it recently and i'm down $40K and further research indicates it's all tied to the 10yr.  That's what I get for deviating from my Index stock fund strategy.  Got to wait it out now, its all in an inherited IRA anyway, but got to start taking money soon.

Ya that’s the problem with even inflation bonds. If rates move up, they can lose a lot of money too, and the inflation premiums on the basis may not cover it. 

[StassneyHorn 6406]

Just realized the fixed rate on a new I bond is 1.3% for the life of the bond. Hasn’t been higher than that since Nov 2006. 
 

Derail is over

[UTGrad98 2183]

Bonds, and bond funds specifically, can suck my dick. 

[Esque 135]

@Muny_Tex, I understand this line of thought but I believe the public does not fully appreciate the increase in input costs over the last several years.  Specifically, as it relates to #4.  A few thoughts.

• The price of land peaked in 2021, but has not decreased materially since then.  Land owners are largely debt free with little carrying costs due to agricultural exemptions and thus are well positioned to increase their hold period.  Further, most land owners are not sophisticated, so they do not think in terms of opportunity costs, i.e. sell today and re-invest in $SPY or some other financial product that would yield better results long-term.  As a result of this market dynamic, those that want to break ground on a new project are having to pay up on the nominal price and then subsidize that higher input costs with some sort of seller financing, increased time period before closing, or etc.
• Entitlement periods are increasing dramatically.  What used to be a 9 to 12 month period in DF/W is now 15 to 18 months and increasingly stakeholders are beginning to underwrite 18 to 24 months as things become more difficult.  I am hopeful the new legislation w.r.t. de-annexation of ETJ may alleviate some of these pressures, but that will take time.  Time is money and with higher rates there is higher cost of capital and thus higher input costs for this time.  Developers need a minimum return to make it worthwhile to pursue these risks and thus this all gets baked into the final land / lot price.
• Hard costs on horizontal development are up more or less 40% since 2019.  There is a significant lag between the actual increase in these input costs and that reflection in the end market.  The next generation of finished lots are already much more expensive purely as a function of increased hard costs.  Lots that were under contract in the first phase of a project for $1,000 / FF are now $1,800 / FF - so your 50' lot went from $50k to $90k a finished lot.  This next generation of lots will be coming online in 2025 - 2026.
• Hard costs on the vertical construction have increased dramatically.  This is experienced more in real time, but needless to say this is reflected in the gross margins, which have come down from 30%+ to 20% - 25% in the last 12 months and are heading back to 20% gross, 10% net.

This is all to say, Builders will do what they need to sell homes, including cutting prices.  But I'm (unfortunately) not holding my breath much will change in the next few years purely as a function of higher basis in actually delivering a home today as compared to a few years ago.  There's a delayed inflation input effect that's not being appreciated because the reality is it takes years for these projects to come out of the ground and to flow through the final input good - the finished home.

Just my two cents as a developer.

[TreatyOak 16055]

Questions for the professionals. 

My neighbor priced his home last year at $4.25M. My business partner, (who is a real estate agent on the side), says it's worth around $2.5M. He pulled it down after 3/4 of a year and has it back on at $3.95.

• How dangerous is it to overvalue the price of your home when selling? 
• Do buyers really care how long a house has been on the market? 
• Does it help you to pull a house that's been on the market for a long time, then re-list it? 
• Is it wise to try to hold out for some really wealthy person who doesn't care about price to fall In love with it?

Thanks,

 

Edited April 18 by TreatyOak

[LCHorn 2527]

30 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

Questions for the professionals. 

My neighbor priced his home last year at $4.25M. My business partner, (who is a real estate agent on the side), says it's worth around $2.5M. He pulled it down after 3/4 of a year and has it back on at $3.95.

• How dangerous is it to overvalue the price of your home when selling? 
• Do buyers really care how long a house has been on the market? 
• Does it help you to pull a house that's been on the market for a long time, then re-list it? 
• Is it wise to try to hold out for some really wealthy person who doesn't care about price to fall In love with it?

Thanks,

 

Sounds very much like you're "asking for a friend" 😉

Dangerous?  Over-valued?  Nobody knows anything, it's like Hollywood and making movies.  That's for the market to decide, particularly for a high value property that might have unique features that might not be known to your business partner.  Obviously the danger is that you don't get an offer at asking but it's not like that's inherently problematic for finding the present market value. 

Most realtors will defer to under-valuing a property because it undoubtedly makes it easier to sell and it'll create traffic.  This may or may not maximize sales price (this is one reason a realtor is better than an owner for having a strategy on this).  Every property is different and market conditions matter.  If I was trying to sell something at $500K, for example, I'd probably a lot more flexible on list because there's tons of buyers in that price range (relatively) and I might have better luck trying to encourage a multiple offer scenario.

If, by contrast, I wanted to sell something at $4.2m then maybe I'm more concerned with the perception of exclusivity.  Maybe I keep it off MLS, let agents know they can call it a pocket listing.  It'll still get out there but I only need one buyer who agrees with me on the value and that's a high enough price that most buyers would be looking for something special (and might feel entitled to it).  For example, paying $200 a sq ft premium for a recently remodeled house rather than doing it themselves and saving the money but incurring the hassle. 

Historically there's a prejudice against properties on the market for an extended period but I think that's gone away.  It might have previously meant the house had problems, the sellers are inflexible (or assholes), realtor incompetent, etc., but there's been so much price/demand volatility (hell, just life volatility) post Covid I really don't think a good buyer's agent declines to show a house because it's been listed for 90 days.  As far as pulling it back and then re-listing, who knows?  Agents see that, it's not like it's a way to truly re-introduce something "as new". 

Is it wise to hold out for a wealthy person?  That depends on how urgently the proceeds might be needed.  

 

[TreatyOak 16055]

6 minutes ago, LCHorn said:

Sounds very much like you're "asking for a friend" 😉

Dangerous?  Over-valued?  Nobody knows anything, it's like Hollywood and making movies.  That's for the market to decide, particularly for a high value property that might have unique features that might not be known to your business partner.  Obviously the danger is that you don't get an offer at asking but it's not like that's inherently problematic for finding the present market value. 

Most realtors will defer to under-valuing a property because it undoubtedly makes it easier to sell and it'll create traffic.  This may or may not maximize sales price (this is one reason a realtor is better than an owner for having a strategy on this).  Every property is different and market conditions matter.  If I was trying to sell something at $500K, for example, I'd probably a lot more flexible on list because there's tons of buyers in that price range (relatively) and I might have better luck trying to encourage a multiple offer scenario.

If, by contrast, I wanted to sell something at $4.2m then maybe I'm more concerned with the perception of exclusivity.  Maybe I keep it off MLS, let agents know they can call it a pocket listing.  It'll still get out there but I only need one buyer who agrees with me on the value and that's a high enough price that most buyers would be looking for something special (and might feel entitled to it).  For example, paying $200 a sq ft premium for a recently remodeled house rather than doing it themselves and saving the money but incurring the hassle. 

Historically there's a prejudice against properties on the market for an extended period but I think that's gone away.  It might have previously meant the house had problems, the sellers are inflexible (or assholes), realtor incompetent, etc., but there's been so much price/demand volatility (hell, just life volatility) post Covid I really don't think a good buyer's agent declines to show a house because it's been listed for 90 days.  As far as pulling it back and then re-listing, who knows?  Agents see that, it's not like it's a way to truly re-introduce something "as new". 

Is it wise to hold out for a wealthy person?  That depends on how urgently the proceeds might be needed.  

 

Thanks. This is great feedback. Haha, I wish it was it ours to sell. We live next door in a nice house, but not on the price scale. Your main point seems to be that conventional sales strategies may no longer apply.  It will be interesting to see if they can sell it. The house has insane Hill Country views but they did finish it out in a very particular style, so you have to love the look. Thanks again!   

[Neonmoon 38126]

@UTPhil2006

[BearSchlong 7963]

Just got a full price cash offer, 15 day close
 

 
 

Closed on my sale this morning, the buyers should be getting hand cramps right about now. I thanked my agent for protecting me from myself.

[Neonmoon 38126]

21 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

I thanked my agent for protecting me from myself.

Literally the best reason to always get a real estate agent. 

[jdhorn92 1524]

Anyone have any experience with STR to traveling nurses?  We bought a small house recently with intention of a flip, paid $110K cash for a 3/1.  Needs a new roof, interior paint, flooring (LVP) and some cosmetic improvements, nothing major, new woodwork on front large front porch.  Corner lot, no neighbors next to or behind.  We know the owner of those lots.  Last week we found out it's in a medical overlay district 2-3 blocks from a growing regional hospital.

We had planned on flipping it, but once we found out about the Medical Overlay, we thought about renting it to a medical oriented practice , but after contacting a staffing (for lack of better word) company for nurses, we think it may draw $3K a month.  We are in the process of acquiring furniture.  Mrs JDHorn is a realtor so we are privy to many people looking to unload furniture.  We have acquired a 40" Samsung, 4 beds and we generally have an attic full of stuff she uses for staging.

Does anyone have thoughts on renting to nurses?  My limited research shows they do extended runs at hospitals, 90 days-  6 mos and sometimes longer if they like the gig. 

The place is 30 min to the gulf of mexico, couple hours to New Orleans or FL panhandle beaches...not a bad area, a little rural but im thinking $3K would be the number if we got 2 or maybe 3 nurses (would be tight with 1 bathroom), though I imagine there are facilities at the hospital too? 

[BearSchlong 7963]

That’s @gil bang wheelhouse.

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

1 hour ago, jdhorn92 said:

Anyone have any experience with STR to traveling nurses?  We bought a small house recently with intention of a flip, paid $110K cash for a 3/1.  Needs a new roof, interior paint, flooring (LVP) and some cosmetic improvements, nothing major, new woodwork on front large front porch.  Corner lot, no neighbors next to or behind.  We know the owner of those lots.  Last week we found out it's in a medical overlay district 2-3 blocks from a growing regional hospital.

We had planned on flipping it, but once we found out about the Medical Overlay, we thought about renting it to a medical oriented practice , but after contacting a staffing (for lack of better word) company for nurses, we think it may draw $3K a month.  We are in the process of acquiring furniture.  Mrs JDHorn is a realtor so we are privy to many people looking to unload furniture.  We have acquired a 40" Samsung, 4 beds and we generally have an attic full of stuff she uses for staging.

Does anyone have thoughts on renting to nurses?  My limited research shows they do extended runs at hospitals, 90 days-  6 mos and sometimes longer if they like the gig. 

The place is 30 min to the gulf of mexico, couple hours to New Orleans or FL panhandle beaches...not a bad area, a little rural but im thinking $3K would be the number if we got 2 or maybe 3 nurses (would be tight with 1 bathroom), though I imagine there are facilities at the hospital too? 

3k a month for a place you paid 110k cash for (even with improvements seems like a pretty damn good ROI to me.  I've never rented to traveling nurses but my SIL was one for a while.  I wouldn't be at all concerned about it. They work those guys pretty hard- they make decent money and I wouldn't think they'd tear the place apart. She never did anyway.  They also don't know many people so they aren't likely to be throwing ragers or anything like that. I'd do it if I thought I could get that number for sure. 

[UTPhil2006 3753]

If you need a pro bono property manager that will check on it daily let me know 

[jdhorn92 1524]

3 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

If you need a pro bono property manager that will check on it daily let me know 

Now that's funny! No kidding, right. 

[Wulaw Horn 18917]

6 minutes ago, UTPhil2006 said:

If you need a pro bono property manager that will check on it daily let me know 

Pro bono or pro boner?  Traveling nurse's. We've all heard the stories. We will let you decide. 

[LCHorn 2527]

2 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

Does anyone have thoughts on renting to nurses?  My limited research shows they do extended runs at hospitals, 90 days-  6 mos and sometimes longer if they like the gig. 

I did a loan a couple of years ago for a traveling nurse that was doing this specifically (this is when it was cheaper to finance a purchase as a second home).  Three bedrooms and the math made it the two that were occupied by other traveling nurses meant she’d live for free, and that saved her from paying apartment rent on a one bedroom she’d only need 2 weeks out of four.
 

I thought it was a terrific idea, personally.  This is kind of stealing from Warren Buffett, but I’ve seen so many people get into real estate presuming it’s easy and find out there’s a lot the “you can retire on passive income!” wealth coaches don’t tell you.  If you have, however, specific knowledge about an area (because you live there) and your customer (because you are employed in the same profession) it can really help mitigate that risk.  

[UT_OB1 2193]

5 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

Anyone have any experience with STR to traveling nurses?  We bought a small house recently with intention of a flip, paid $110K cash for a 3/1.  Needs a new roof, interior paint, flooring (LVP) and some cosmetic improvements, nothing major, new woodwork on front large front porch.  Corner lot, no neighbors next to or behind.  We know the owner of those lots.  Last week we found out it's in a medical overlay district 2-3 blocks from a growing regional hospital.

We had planned on flipping it, but once we found out about the Medical Overlay, we thought about renting it to a medical oriented practice , but after contacting a staffing (for lack of better word) company for nurses, we think it may draw $3K a month.  We are in the process of acquiring furniture.  Mrs JDHorn is a realtor so we are privy to many people looking to unload furniture.  We have acquired a 40" Samsung, 4 beds and we generally have an attic full of stuff she uses for staging.

Does anyone have thoughts on renting to nurses?  My limited research shows they do extended runs at hospitals, 90 days-  6 mos and sometimes longer if they like the gig. 

The place is 30 min to the gulf of mexico, couple hours to New Orleans or FL panhandle beaches...not a bad area, a little rural but im thinking $3K would be the number if we got 2 or maybe 3 nurses (would be tight with 1 bathroom), though I imagine there are facilities at the hospital too? 

I’ve rented to 3-4 with our Airbnb during the offseason. However, we never got 2 chicks at once, only whole house rental on our 2-1. As far as renters go they were fine. As far as keeping the place rented all the time and dealing with STR headaches, well the property is a long term rental now (mostly Airbnb / vrbo headaches though)

[Gil Bang 25504]

9 hours ago, jdhorn92 said:

Anyone have any experience with STR to traveling nurses?  We bought a small house recently with intention of a flip, paid $110K cash for a 3/1.  Needs a new roof, interior paint, flooring (LVP) and some cosmetic improvements, nothing major, new woodwork on front large front porch.  Corner lot, no neighbors next to or behind.  We know the owner of those lots.  Last week we found out it's in a medical overlay district 2-3 blocks from a growing regional hospital.

We had planned on flipping it, but once we found out about the Medical Overlay, we thought about renting it to a medical oriented practice , but after contacting a staffing (for lack of better word) company for nurses, we think it may draw $3K a month.  We are in the process of acquiring furniture.  Mrs JDHorn is a realtor so we are privy to many people looking to unload furniture.  We have acquired a 40" Samsung, 4 beds and we generally have an attic full of stuff she uses for staging.

Does anyone have thoughts on renting to nurses?  My limited research shows they do extended runs at hospitals, 90 days-  6 mos and sometimes longer if they like the gig. 

The place is 30 min to the gulf of mexico, couple hours to New Orleans or FL panhandle beaches...not a bad area, a little rural but im thinking $3K would be the number if we got 2 or maybe 3 nurses (would be tight with 1 bathroom), though I imagine there are facilities at the hospital too? 

 

8 hours ago, BearSchlong said:

That’s @gil bang wheelhouse.

Thanks Bear. 

Yeah, I had what is essentially a walk-out basement that had been used as a game room, with a pool table and pinball machine that nobody used.    It's a hair over 400 sq ft.

I built out a nice bathroom and kitchenette.  The bathroom has a big shower, and a big sinktop with nice cabinetry.  Kitchen is Ikea stuff...12 or 13 cu. ft. fridge/freezer with ice maker,  a microwave/convection combo, an induction hot plate, service for 4 in dishes and glassware, etc. Roomy countertop with a good-sized sink.   I also installed a mini-split heat pump, so it's cool or toasty as the occupant wishes. It's got a separate driveway, so parking is about 5 feet from the private entrance (which is at a lower level than the rest of the house).  It's pretty private, but not too isolated.  It's got a nice patio with a cover, so we bought a bistro set and a grill for them to use.   Our laundry room doubles as the pool bathroom, so it has it's own entrance, so laundry isn't an issue for the tenants.  I offer them exclusive use of the laundry room on a day of their choosing, or, they can just merge with the rest of us and throw in a load when they need to.   I hung a nice smart TV (and put our Netflix, amazon, and the rest on that TV for them), give them fast wifi, etc.  

We furnished it with pretty high-grade stuff.   A nice bed, cotton sheets, nice towels, etc.   The GF decorated it "cute"*  I put it on furnished finder for $1900/mo.  Within a week, I got a cute nurse originally from Canada (with WA driver's license) that took a 120 day contract at one of the hospitals.   She moved in and liked it well enough that she extended her contract.   Their contracts are capped so they can't stay forever.  

Anyway, she was cool as shit and we were sorry to see her go, but within a few days of re-listing, I got a nice gal from SAT.  She worked the same hospital and stayed 6 months.  After feedback from nurse 1, I upped the rent to 2,000.    Like the first gal, when this one left, she wrote us a beautiful note and left us a gift basket. 

So, I listed it again.  This time, I got a call from a guy in his 20's.   He's in the IBEW, and serving an apprenticeship at a local contractor.  His family home is about 100 miles away.  He came over, found the place perfect for him, and took it.  He loves the fact that his truck is right outside the door (instead of in a motel parking lot), etc.   He's been here 7 months or so.  This stage of his apprenticeship ends in July, and he's really hoping to stay with this company for the next stage, or find another contractor in this area and continue to rent here.   BTW,  North San Diego is a fuckload nicer than where he's from, so I understand why he wants to stay.   Truthfully, we like this young man as a tenant better than we liked the nurses.  This guy leaves early and comes home late.  He's 50 hrs/week minimum working, and gone a lot more than that.    The nurses worked 3 12-hour shifts per week, and a lot of that was at night.  Meaning, I didn't want to make a lot of noise during the day while they were sleeping.  So, mower/weed whacker/chain saw time was restricted. 

Of course, I told the nurses that they were free to use the pool at any time

All 3 of them are wonderful people, and both the nurses know that if they want to come back for a long weekend, they can have one of the spare bedrooms in the house for no charge.   

I'm sure if and when "Mike" leaves I'll get another nurse, and that's fine with me. 

r/travelnursing is a pretty good forum for finding out wants and needs.  

I've found that the most important thing for the women is to feel safe.   Both of the nurses mentioned how safe they felt in their goodbye notes.  

 

* as to the "cute" decor, when Mike checked the place out, he said "yeah...I don't really need all these throw pillows...can you store these somewhere?".  I knew right then I liked the guy. 

 

Somewhere in this long post, I deleted the part about being within 10 miles of 3 big hospitals.  Location is important. 

Edited April 20 by Gil Bang

[Gil Bang 25504]

oh jhorn, there are quite a few nurses that have "travel buddies" that take contracts together and room together (and 69 and whatnot according to my imagination).  There's certainly a market for something larger than a single. 

[Gil Bang 25504]

(Colombo) and one more thing...sometimes the nurse employment agencies will take down housing themselves and include it in the nurse's compensation.  That's your best but, but you'll need to furnish it comfortably.  And ask a trusted realtor friend for a referral for a photographer, and have it shot for 150 bucks or so because the photos are what you'll be judged by and they need to look great. 

[LCHorn 2527]

12 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

And ask a trusted realtor friend for a referral for a photographer, and have it shot for 150 bucks or so because the photos are what you'll be judged by and they need to look great. 

I’ve said this at least twice previously on the thread but l’ll repeat it again here-everyone thinks “oh, realtors don’t do anything, maybe I can be cheap” or “lenders are just a conduit for money, maybe I’ll go with the online lender who’s cheap.”  
 

Do not cheap out on getting a pro to do photos-it’s a huge difference and I continue to see high value houses (even $1m plus) with inadequate cell phone photos.  

[UTPhil2006 3753]

I’ve got photographers for Austin/central TX, Houston, SA, East TX and a DFW guy if you want their info @jdhorn92 just shoot a PM, email etc 

[jdhorn92 1524]

23 hours ago, Gil Bang said:

 

Thanks Bear. 

Yeah, I had what is essentially a walk-out basement that had been used as a game room, with a pool table and pinball machine that nobody used.    It's a hair over 400 sq ft.

I built out a nice bathroom and kitchenette.  The bathroom has a big shower, and a big sinktop with nice cabinetry.  Kitchen is Ikea stuff...12 or 13 cu. ft. fridge/freezer with ice maker,  a microwave/convection combo, an induction hot plate, service for 4 in dishes and glassware, etc. Roomy countertop with a good-sized sink.   I also installed a mini-split heat pump, so it's cool or toasty as the occupant wishes. It's got a separate driveway, so parking is about 5 feet from the private entrance (which is at a lower level than the rest of the house).  It's pretty private, but not too isolated.  It's got a nice patio with a cover, so we bought a bistro set and a grill for them to use.   Our laundry room doubles as the pool bathroom, so it has it's own entrance, so laundry isn't an issue for the tenants.  I offer them exclusive use of the laundry room on a day of their choosing, or, they can just merge with the rest of us and throw in a load when they need to.   I hung a nice smart TV (and put our Netflix, amazon, and the rest on that TV for them), give them fast wifi, etc.  

We furnished it with pretty high-grade stuff.   A nice bed, cotton sheets, nice towels, etc.   The GF decorated it "cute"*  I put it on furnished finder for $1900/mo.  Within a week, I got a cute nurse originally from Canada (with WA driver's license) that took a 120 day contract at one of the hospitals.   She moved in and liked it well enough that she extended her contract.   Their contracts are capped so they can't stay forever.  

Anyway, she was cool as shit and we were sorry to see her go, but within a few days of re-listing, I got a nice gal from SAT.  She worked the same hospital and stayed 6 months.  After feedback from nurse 1, I upped the rent to 2,000.    Like the first gal, when this one left, she wrote us a beautiful note and left us a gift basket. 

So, I listed it again.  This time, I got a call from a guy in his 20's.   He's in the IBEW, and serving an apprenticeship at a local contractor.  His family home is about 100 miles away.  He came over, found the place perfect for him, and took it.  He loves the fact that his truck is right outside the door (instead of in a motel parking lot), etc.   He's been here 7 months or so.  This stage of his apprenticeship ends in July, and he's really hoping to stay with this company for the next stage, or find another contractor in this area and continue to rent here.   BTW,  North San Diego is a fuckload nicer than where he's from, so I understand why he wants to stay.   Truthfully, we like this young man as a tenant better than we liked the nurses.  This guy leaves early and comes home late.  He's 50 hrs/week minimum working, and gone a lot more than that.    The nurses worked 3 12-hour shifts per week, and a lot of that was at night.  Meaning, I didn't want to make a lot of noise during the day while they were sleeping.  So, mower/weed whacker/chain saw time was restricted. 

Of course, I told the nurses that they were free to use the pool at any time

All 3 of them are wonderful people, and both the nurses know that if they want to come back for a long weekend, they can have one of the spare bedrooms in the house for no charge.   

I'm sure if and when "Mike" leaves I'll get another nurse, and that's fine with me. 

r/travelnursing is a pretty good forum for finding out wants and needs.  

I've found that the most important thing for the women is to feel safe.   Both of the nurses mentioned how safe they felt in their goodbye notes.  

 

* as to the "cute" decor, when Mike checked the place out, he said "yeah...I don't really need all these throw pillows...can you store these somewhere?".  I knew right then I liked the guy. 

 

Somewhere in this long post, I deleted the part about being within 10 miles of 3 big hospitals.  Location is important. 

This is great!  Thank you.  My wife has great taste so the furnishings will be good/high quality, but we’ll keep ROI in mind too. We won’t skimp. 
 

I’ll keep the thread posted as we get closer to going to market with the property…we fell ass backwards into the medial overlay district.