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The Climate thread


Laxtonto

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On 3/15/2024 at 11:30 AM, Biff Tannen said:

Every time I go to Costco, I see the millions of plastic containers for EVERYTHING and extrapolate that out in my brain as to how much of that inventory is replaced every day and how many Costcos there are and all the other big box stores and how many plastic water bottles  are used everyday and it is all just overwhelming and we are fucked.

Or when I go to Wholefoods and see a mound of individual potatoes wrapped in plastic.  

The way our recycling works is that if there's one piece of non recyclable plastic in the bin, then everything gets trashed.  At work, in many buildings, just watch the maintenance guys dump both the trash and recycle baskets all in the same bin at night.  Basically, if you don't stay on people, they won't do right.  Which is exactly why regulation is needed.  Greed is a crime by biblical standards, and a disease, especially when a few begin to rationalize poison for profit.  

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5 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

The way our recycling works is that if there's one piece of non recyclable plastic in the bin, then everything gets trashed.  At work, in many buildings, just watch the maintenance guys dump both the trash and recycle baskets all in the same bin at night.  Basically, if you don't stay on people, they won't do right.  Which is exactly why regulation is needed.  Greed is a crime by biblical standards, and a disease, especially when a few begin to rationalize poison for profit.  

Why do you hate freedom? 

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6 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

The way our recycling works is that if there's one piece of non recyclable plastic in the bin, then everything gets trashed.  At work, in many buildings, just watch the maintenance guys dump both the trash and recycle baskets all in the same bin at night.  Basically, if you don't stay on people, they won't do right.  Which is exactly why regulation is needed.  Greed is a crime by biblical standards, and a disease, especially when a few begin to rationalize poison for profit.  

I recently read an estimate that ~ 10% of residential recycling materials are actually recycled, and ~ 90% just go to the landfill.  Great.  I would hope industrial recycling would have a much higher yield.

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I watched a doc on recycling in Germany.  Outside of Berlin I think.  It's a massive operation.  They have a drive up system.  Basically from there it's sorted into different dumpsters.  If they have furniture or electronics they have people to refurb it and resale it.  From there everything is cleaned and sorted and shipped to companies who can use it.  

I know this was just part of their overall recycling program but it was inspiring.  Plus they employee dozens and dozens of people. 

Makes me angry we don't have those types operations here.

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4 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I recently read an estimate that ~ 10% of residential recycling materials are actually recycled, and ~ 90% just go to the landfill.  Great.  I would hope industrial recycling would have a much higher yield.

We've gone over this in this thread somewhere, but Austin is much higher.  Somewhere around 80%.  It all depends on how much each municipality gives a shit and what relationships they have with the companies that end up buying the material to recycle it.

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NYTimes travel piece about trying to raft a drying Rio Grande in the Big Bend region.

 

How Do You Paddle a Disappearing River?
Canoeing the Rio Grande near Big Bend National Park can be magical. But as the river dries, it’s getting harder to find where a boat will actually float.

I had barely unbuckled my seatbelt and was already wondering if I had driven six hours across Texas for nothing. A once-in-a-lifetime river adventure had seemingly evaporated with some disappointing news.

It was the promise of a four-day, 33-mile canoe journey in Big Bend National Park, snaking through awe-inspiring canyons on a mighty river, that had lured me across the state. My partner’s brother, Michael Stangl, an occasional guide with Hidden Dagger Adventures, had offered to take me on the Rio Grande, one of the country’s longest rivers, which stretches from central Colorado to the Gulf of Mexico. I had only previously visited Big Bend on foot, and I was excited to see it from the water.

The moment I pulled into Michael’s driveway in Alpine, Texas, after driving there from Austin last April, he told me: We wouldn’t be going through the park anymore.

 

Free link that's worth the click just for the photographs alone: 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/22/travel/texas-big-bend-rio-grande-boat.html?ugrp=m&unlocked_article_code=1.fU0.3T0t.w_1KA_kLYDLx&smid=url-share

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1 hour ago, brakeman said:

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cheap and clean energy.

I trained to become a solar installer in 2010 and it was known then that the price was going to continue to plummet.  I'm so glad the price is no longer a rational argument.

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On 3/22/2024 at 8:37 AM, jimmyjazz said:

I recently read an estimate that ~ 10% of residential recycling materials are actually recycled, and ~ 90% just go to the landfill.  Great.  I would hope industrial recycling would have a much higher yield.

That sucks. We fill up the bin each week, I really hope our community is doing more than 10%. 

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Here's a gifted link for @RomaVicta and anyone else interested in two projects (one in Iceland and another, much larger in Odessa, TX) geared toward carbon capture. It's a good read as it also discusses many of the issues surrounding the effort, including expense, effectiveness, and ethics.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/31/climate/climate-change-carbon-capture-ccs.html?ugrp=m&unlocked_article_code=1.hE0.C_vy.8xZNakjhVWGv&smid=url-share

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On 3/27/2024 at 5:19 PM, Biff Tannen said:

I trained to become a solar installer in 2010 and it was known then that the price was going to continue to plummet.  I'm so glad the price is no longer a rational argument.

I thought I read last week that we (USA) were against China flooding the market with cheap solar panels, for some reason. Struck me as an odd thing to be upset about.

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25 minutes ago, Post Oak said:

Get a rope.

 

Eight hours of benzene that was (if I read the paper correctly) 15 times the limit, and eight hours of carbon monoxide at 2500 lb/hour (limit=351.79/hr) among other things.

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27 minutes ago, troph said:

imagine how much more we could do if this was a natural issue not a political one. makes me so mad. my team doesn't care so I don't care. grrr.

We are dooming multiple generations due to this.  I'm sure they won't mind.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

We are dooming multiple generations due to this.  I'm sure they won't mind.

If they're anything like Uvalde, they'll continue voting Republican, even at the expense of their offspring.  Leopards faces person woman man camera tv whatnot.  

Edited by Mdhorn
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15 hours ago, Mdhorn said:

If they're anything like Uvalde, they'll continue voting Republican, even at the expense of their offspring.  Leopards faces person woman man camera tv whatnot.  

I hate to wish Midland ill, but if the wind was blowing eastward perhaps the resulting pollution lingered over Tim Dunn's 6000 sq ft place.

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On 4/1/2024 at 11:46 AM, BeardIP said:

I thought I read last week that we (USA) were against China flooding the market with cheap solar panels, for some reason. Struck me as an odd thing to be upset about.

Stat: In what amounts to the green-tech version of that “It’s enough slices!” meme, China is producing so many cheap solar panels that people in Germany and the Netherlands are using them as fencing, the Financial Times reported. Due to a Chinese manufacturing boom, the global solar panel supply is on track to hit 1,100 gigawatts this year, three times the current forecast. That’s driving the price of panels way down: As of March, they cost 11 cents per watt, half of what they were at that time last year. Now you can keep your neighbors out and save on your electricity bill at the same time.

https://www.ft.com/content/2ea6bf6d-04e9-453b-a35f-cd6431cfc7bf

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On 3/21/2024 at 10:55 PM, BeardIP said:

Amazon says its plastic packaging can be recycled. An investigation finds it usually isn’t. (Grist) https://grist.org/accountability/amazon-says-its-plastic-packaging-can-be-recycled-an-investigation-finds-it-usually-isnt/

Shit, I could've told ya that. Anytime there's something besides that sole material - like say a foam polymer infill in a paper envelope - it's not gonna be recyclable mainly due to contamination. And even so, most of the plastic that's taken in is too dirty to clean or separate and is just burned as a heat source, rather than landfilling a boatload of plastic every day

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  • 2 weeks later...

I’ve actually seen quite a bit of good news re EVs (growth rate is down but the growth is still incredible), solar panel production, microbes to reduce methane in agriculture, ocean clean up, river clean ups.  

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23 minutes ago, troph said:

This is awesome too. 30% of DR waters now protected. 
 

 

This is great, but very misleading. This impacts the tourist trade. Not the water around the island. I lived there in the early 1980's for three years and was at the beach every weekend. All over the island. Reefs were pristine, lots of fish. Went back in the 1990's quite a bit. My brothers live there. It was night and day and has only gotten worse. Some areas, where the resorts are have maintained some beauty, but it is not the same and doubt it will recover.

Santo Domingo is filthy. The two rivers do nothin gbut push waste into the water. You DO NOT swim in the city. I mean NEVER. No one does. Puerto Plata is going in that direction.

So don't want to be a downer, and as I said, this is great. But it is a band aid when amputation is needed.

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6 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

This is great, but very misleading. This impacts the tourist trade. Not the water around the island. I lived there in the early 1980's for three years and was at the beach every weekend. All over the island. Reefs were pristine, lots of fish. Went back in the 1990's quite a bit. My brothers live there. It was night and day and has only gotten worse. Some areas, where the resorts are have maintained some beauty, but it is not the same and doubt it will recover.

Santo Domingo is filthy. The two rivers do nothin gbut push waste into the water. You DO NOT swim in the city. I mean NEVER. No one does. Puerto Plata is going in that direction.

So don't want to be a downer, and as I said, this is great. But it is a band aid when amputation is needed.

I’ve spent enough time around to be under no illusion these moves are starting from a position being ahead. The Caribbean especially is turbo fucked.  South Pacific not so much. But everywhere is playing from behind at this point.

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9 minutes ago, troph said:

I’ve spent enough time around to be under no illusion these moves are starting from a position being ahead. The Caribbean especially is turbo fucked.  South Pacific not so much. But everywhere is playing from behind at this point.

One client is a NZ company. They do a lot of environment work in the South Pacific. Owner has been working there for about 40 years and says the damage is real and getting worse. His big bitch. Micro plastic and chinese fishing boats, or raiders as he calls them.

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About rafting in the Rio Grande:

-- I first rafted Santa Elena Canyon in 1993 and 1996. Both times, the river had shallow parts where we had to drag the raft around boulders and over rocks. The river levels do fluctuate, but there is no doubt the river is more shallow or dried up for longer periods of time. The dams in New Mexico are a key source of the problem, as well as overpopulation, drought, and agricultural excess.

-- As the Canyon got deeper ... and water got deeper ... you could hear the sandy water quietly grinding like sandpaper carving the canyon walls. It was unreal. Will never forget it.

-- The "beaches" inside the Canyon (as it snaked along) were 100% pristine. And no doubt the Canyon Walls are spectacular, rising over 1000 feet.

-- At night, you could see the flashes of lightning bugs galore... and hear bat wings flapping as they zoomed in for the late-night snacks.

But, the most epic experience was seeing the Milky Way rise above the towering Canyon walls, shrouded in complete and total darkness. It was like a wide ribbon of glowing stars/stardust astride the Canyon walls, which were pitch black. Majestic, magnificent, mind-blowing.

-- My girlfriend and I were just in complete and total awe. Overwhelmed at times. She even shed a tear or two. A truly sublime experience.

-- For a good couple of hours, we just laid on the beach looking up and sipping some tequila. It was ever more mesmerizing as our eyes adjusted to the darkness. (I think it is called the "scotopic" part of human vision.) The Milky Way seemed like it was in 3D. 

-- Friends, if you have never rafted the Santa Elena Canyon, put it on your bucket list. And do an overnighter to see the Milky Way. You will never forget it. 

Edited by BevoAbyss
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8 hours ago, InkaUtexas said:

One client is a NZ company. They do a lot of environment work in the South Pacific. Owner has been working there for about 40 years and says the damage is real and getting worse. His big bitch. Micro plastic and chinese fishing boats, or raiders as he calls them.

The oceans in the south are a quantum leap better than in the north, but again no where is unscathed.

We’ve dove reefs down there that are still super healthy and unbelievable how much life is there. The Caribbean reefs are trashed. Florida reefs are about to disappear. 

I know shit is bad, but I’m an optimist so I’m going to share good news and enjoy it for what it is, hope that while it’s too late for a lot maybe it not too late for all of it. 

Edited by troph
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Ocean acidification, coral bleaching, massive over-fishing, dredging the sea floors. and plastic garbage all throughout the oceans. We are f*cking up the oceans big time, the ultimate life support system on Planet Earth

Take a few moments and watch the TED Talk by Sylvia Earle, the legendary and pioneering oceanographer. Earle is pure greatness! Some incredible imagery in the video, a talk mixed with dread and hope for the future.

 

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Happy Earth Day. And this is super insightful (below) and I'll be the first to admit I'm guilty. I can't/won't eat chicken sausage or turkey bacon, much less plant-based meat.

Quote

 

Eating more plant-based meats could save the planet, you say? Nah, we’re good

Don’t feel bad if nobody wishes you a happy Earth Day today, it’s probably because everyone’s got a juicy cheeseburger jammed into their maw.

In 2022, Boston Consulting Group issued a bombshell report that plant-based meat alternatives were, by far, the most impactful environmental investment humanity could make.

Investing $1T in transitioning people away from traditional meats would, according to BCG, cut emissions:

3x more than $1T put toward green cement technology.

7x more than investing the same amount in erecting more green buildings.

11x more than sinking another trillion into zero-emission vehicles.

OK, sounds easy enough: Everyone swaps a few meat-free patties into their diet and maybe, just maybe, this precious 4.5B-year-old marble of ours will stand a chance against climate change.

Sounds great, except…

… Americans aren’t buying into that plan. To the contrary, plant-based meat continued a “precipitous decline,” per AgFunderNews.

US unit sales of plant-based meats and seafood were down 19% last year.

Only 15% of American households purchased plant-based proteins in 2023, down 4% YoY.

Fifty-one percent of US adults say they’ve never given them a try.

It’s no wonder, then, that the industry’s leading players are wilting:

Beyond Meat’s market cap, which hit $12B+ as recently as 2021, is now below $500m.

Impossible Foods’ internal stock prices dropped 89% between October 2021 and June 2023.

New players in the space won’t have it easy either — overall funding for plant-based startups dropped 28% last year.

So, what happens next?

Globally, the plant-based meat, seafood, egg, and dairy sector notched $29B in sales last year, despite the dive in US sales, so there’s hope abroad.

But getting Americans on board will be difficult: Per The Good Food Institute, most US consumers feel traditional meats are tastier, more affordable, higher in protein, more accessible, and easier to cook — a lot of barriers to overcome, none easy.

Perhaps looming economic ruin will force their hand? Researchers now estimate climate change will annually put a $38T dent in the global economy by 2049.

Oof. Happy Earth Day, we guess.

 

 

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2 hours ago, BeardIP said:

Happy Earth Day. And this is super insightful (below) and I'll be the first to admit I'm guilty. I can't/won't eat chicken sausage or turkey bacon, much less plant-based meat.

 

I much prefer turkey and white meat in general over red meat (though I get down on some brisket and/or steak probably once a month or so) and love the Beyond Meat and Morning Star plant-based stuff.  It helps that my wife is mostly a vegetarian and a great chef, but the benefits to the environment are astounding. 

 

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23 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

I much prefer turkey and white meat in general over red meat (though I get down on some brisket and/or steak probably once a month or so) and love the Beyond Meat and Morning Star plant-based stuff.  It helps that my wife is mostly a vegetarian and a great chef, but the benefits to the environment are astounding. 

 

That's fantastic, and like I said that's great for the environment, etc. and we need people like you, but I just can't with the turkey/chicken inferior substitutes and especially with the plant based stuff. Maybe lab-grown meats will hit the mark?

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On 4/22/2024 at 3:34 PM, BeardIP said:

That's fantastic, and like I said that's great for the environment, etc. and we need people like you, but I just can't with the turkey/chicken inferior substitutes and especially with the plant based stuff. Maybe lab-grown meats will hit the mark?

better-off-dead-1.png.7de9ff21312341ca67b89f1dc2d71a87.png

Edited by troph
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lab grown is gonna take a while for me. but I keep asking my fam to have at least 2 vegetarian days a week (first for health reasons second environment). we don't eat a lot of red meat maybe once a month, but burgers yikes kids love em. chicken and pork are our go to's.

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3 hours ago, troph said:

lab grown is gonna take a while for me. but I keep asking my fam to have at least 2 vegetarian days a week (first for health reasons second environment). we don't eat a lot of red meat maybe once a month, but burgers yikes kids love em. chicken and pork are our go to's.

I'd rather just intermittent fast and skip a meal than eat chicken sasuage or turkey burgers and save up my consumption to make it worthwhile. In fact, that's what I mostly do with red meat-- I won't eat a steak for example unless it's a bone-in ribeye. Miss me with any other cuts, including filets, regular ribeyes, etc.

Edited by BeardIP
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Just now, BeardIP said:

I'd rather just intermittent fast and skip a meal than eat chicken sasuage or turkey burgers and save up my consumption to make it worthwhile. In fact, that's what I mostly do with red meat-- I won't eat a steak for example unless it's a bone-in ribeye. Miss me with any other cuts, including filets, regular ribeyes, etc.

real chicken, real turkey, no prob though I generally just avoid sausage - and a P Terribles chicken burger is not half bad.  better off dead kitchen experiments though, yeah no thanks.

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On 4/22/2024 at 5:26 PM, Neonmoon said:

I eat plant based meats. They’re delicious. My wife makes the best impossible lasagna. I also eat regular meat. Also delicious. 

I haven’t found a plant based chicken that’s good yet. That shit needs work. 

I eat meats that were fed plants. Does that count? 

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