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The Climate thread


Laxtonto

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I'm sure all the people living in the climate cataclysm will understand. 

We should curtail child births, but the DNA won't allow it. That's something nobody can stop.

We could take bolder steps regarding cars and mass transit, but it's too costly and inconvenient.

We could make owning a new pet extremely expensive through licensing, but dogs are great.

We're spoiled. We don't want to do anything that changes our status quo.

I'm not doing a lot myself. I don't eat nearly as much beef as I did, I'm careful with water (not a climate thing, but I need enough stuff for another comma), and I'm about to buy a car that gets twice as much MPG as our current main vehicle. Electric is impossible where we live.

We will be hated. Rightfully despised. I cannot be satisfied to shrug my shoulders and do absolutely nothing.

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We don't listen, either.

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2 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

I'm sure all the people living in the climate cataclysm will understand. 

We should curtail child births, but the DNA won't allow it. That's something nobody can stop.

We could take bolder steps regarding cars and mass transit, but it's too costly and inconvenient.

We could make owning a new pet extremely expensive through licensing, but dogs are great.

We're spoiled. We don't want to do anything that changes our status quo.

I'm not doing a lot myself. I don't eat nearly as much beef as I did, I'm careful with water (not a climate thing, but I need enough stuff for another comma), and I'm about to buy a car that gets twice as much MPG as our current main vehicle. Electric is impossible where we live.

We will be hated. Rightfully despised. I cannot be satisfied to shrug my shoulders and do absolutely nothing.

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We don't listen, either.

We've chose the FAFO approach. It's a bold strategy. I've become quite the curmudgeon about basically everything, although I've learned to keep most of my thoughts in my head to prevent everyone around me from being miserable.

My inner monologue goes something like "Do we really need another strip center? Why are there so many giant goddamn pickup trucks? What is the purpose of planting a bunch of non-native grass just to pay people to use gas-chugging mowers and weedeaters to cut it every week? Why is there so much shit in my own house? Does everything need to come in plastic? Why are we all getting a bunch of bullshit delivered to our front door in 3 extra layers of packaging? Is it so hard to have recycling bins available? Oh yea, because people can't even be trusted to walk 3 feet to throw something in a trash can when they can just leave it at there feet."

It would be nice if we as a society showed some urgency in solving any of the myriad issues contributing to climate change, but having stuff and never being inconvenienced are what we value most.

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4 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

Why are my dogs bad for the environment?

Same reasons humans are bad for the environment except the dog per se isn’t the problem - we are and we have too many, we feed them meat and the dog food industry is disgusting. 
 

dogs or no dogs is not where this battle gets won. It gets won on innovation, mass migration away from carbon based energy (electricity and fuel), new and improved energy storage techniques, carbon capture and sequestration, and elimination of petroleum based plastics.  There is more but if we do that we are well on our way and our dogs keep getting belly rubs and treats.

we already have the answers for most of this, what we lack is political will. Individual will won’t get it done, as much as we each try, it’s got to be governmental and industry initiatives and mandates.

coming at people for having dogs is simply barking up the wrong tree.  

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22 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Yup. So it ain’t gonna happen. 

It’s going to happen just too late. There are changes happening just not enough. China EV adoption rate and their clean energy projects are very impressive, as an example. Europe and US initiatives are accelerating as well. Industry innovation is extremely promising. We could ban petroleum plastic bags now and go with fully biodegradable bags. There is tons of technology waiting to be relied upon. But in the end, as we humans do, we react way too late to the problem. These solutions are 20 years too late and soon to be 30-50 years too late.

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I just spent the week talking about climate impact primarily in East Africa and the Pacific islands. I was traveling with an Australian and Kiwi for this conference. Society for International Development's annual conference. Climate was a big topic, right under governance. What surprised me was the lack of companies with innovation and technology. For instance, there are some great tools for water (irrigation and for people) that are quite effective and not as expensive as many think. They were not there. What was there were quite a few tech companies selling AI for proposals and reports. Aid companies have to do a lot of that shit (think TPS reports about Malaria) and it eats up field time. I have an issue with AI in the proposal, planning and solution development areas. I review a lot of them and I can tell what clients use AI. They go for more grants, sure, but their solutions and approach seem to be always the same. There is little in human innovation in these.

I know on this thread we talk about large sized projects (desal, solar, etc.) but there are a lot of small things that can be done. They are not easy and many times take a cultural mind change for the benefiting community. The development world is a great place to begin and test new concepts. Their need is a lot less than the average Americans. There is not any St. Augustine in Darfur, but they do need to grow food. Test these new techs and customize them for small er needs. Solar? A "home" in Kenya wants 2 light bulbs. Don't care about keeping their house at 69 degrees.

The issue I have been asked to focus on is ocean and the impact on the South Pacific islands. Yep, water is rising, but the amount of trash that floats in the pacific impacting these islands is tremendous. Bays so full local fishing is not possible. I see climate like this. Everything impacts something else. So to do these large projects we must increase the supporting infrastructure. Thinking like this sure can keep you awake at night.

Rant over. Was thinking about this thread all week and wish I could have reached out for some ideas.

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2 hours ago, troph said:

Same reasons humans are bad for the environment except the dog per se isn’t the problem - we are and we have too many, we feed them meat and the dog food industry is disgusting. 
 

dogs or no dogs is not where this battle gets won. It gets won on innovation, mass migration away from carbon based energy (electricity and fuel), new and improved energy storage techniques, carbon capture and sequestration, and elimination of petroleum based plastics.  There is more but if we do that we are well on our way and our dogs keep getting belly rubs and treats.

we already have the answers for most of this, what we lack is political will. Individual will won’t get it done, as much as we each try, it’s got to be governmental and industry initiatives and mandates.

coming at people for having dogs is simply barking up the wrong tree.  

Nobody in this country is going to do any of that until forced to. Most can't even be bothered to read your clear summary made in a digestible paragraph.

People will choose their dogs over their grandchildren. In fact, they are doing just that as well as choosing hamburgers, needlessly large vehicles, or anything else they believe they're entitled to.

Frankly, it seems like we've already impacted nature enough that we won't be able to prevent climate disaster. The melting permafrost is a gigantice problem, and there is nothing to be done about it now.

Discomfort, pain, or fear force change. By the time climate change evokes any of those, it will be too late.

I like dogs. I just don't like them above everything else. Your statement about the battle not being won by addressing the statistics quoted on the last page is not much different than saying, "Me giving up beef five days a week won't make any difference?"

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28 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Nobody in this country is going to do any of that until forced to. Most can't even be bothered to read your clear summary made in a digestible paragraph.

People will choose their dogs over their grandchildren. In fact, they are doing just that as well as choosing hamburgers, needlessly large vehicles, or anything else they believe they're entitled to.

Frankly, it seems like we've already impacted nature enough that we won't be able to prevent climate disaster. The melting permafrost is a gigantice problem, and there is nothing to be done about it now.

Discomfort, pain, or fear force change. By the time climate change evokes any of those, it will be too late.

I like dogs. I just don't like them above everything else. Your statement about the battle not being won by addressing the statistics quoted on the last page is not much different than saying, "Me giving up beef five days a week won't make any difference?"

I agree with most of your post, I just think you’re not considering all the variables in your “give up your dogs” solution. For example, I don’t have kids. I have three dogs that weigh a combined 50 pounds. You suggesting I give them up to fight climate change is asinine. Their meat consumption is far less than most. In fact, since I often don’t eat meat, and my wife never does, our household is probably below most households by a large margin. I’m not choosing my dogs over my grandchildren. Why can’t we instill a one child policy? That would cut down on meat consumption, wouldn’t it? We don’t do that because that suggestion is just as asinine. If you want to propose household meat rations, go for it. It wouldn’t bother my house one bit. We love Tofu. It’s just a little silly considering we can barely pass laws to prevent companies from pouring toxic waste into rivers. 

Climate Change will be solved by solutions already mentioned. Reduction of fossil based energy, reduction of plastics, reduction of consumption culture, and changes in food production and consumption. 

Why won’t it happen? Because humans celebrate stupidity. 

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32 minutes ago, Neonmoon said:

I just think you’re not considering all the variables in your “give up your dogs” solution. For example, I don’t have kids. I have three dogs that weigh a combined 50 pounds. You suggesting I give them up to fight climate change is asinine.

I never suggest such a thing. I specifically state that all current pets should carry on as they are. Acquiring new pets would be discouraged by high licensing fees or something.

Your argument for keeping pets in general is the same as not giving up eating some beef.

I've made my point. Emotions are triggered which I don't care to engage.

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30 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

I never suggest such a thing. I specifically state that all current pets should carry on as they are. Acquiring new pets would be discouraged by high licensing fees or something.

Your argument for keeping pets in general is the same as not giving up eating some beef.

I've made my point. Emotions are triggered which I don't care to engage.

So what was your proposal for all of the unregulated breeding (i.e. strays) that cannot be stopped?  Poison them all?  Shoot them like Kristi Noem?

This is a dumb conversation.  Let's move on.  

1 hour ago, Neonmoon said:

Climate Change will be solved by solutions already mentioned. Reduction of fossil based energy, reduction of plastics, reduction of consumption culture, and changes in food production and consumption. 

This is where we have to focus our efforts.  

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56 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

Your argument for keeping pets in general is the same as not giving up eating some beef.

 

Reducing meat consumption is a good goal. I agree with you. Your plan to reduce meat consumption is dumb. Here’s an olive branch. Don’t you think requiring dog food to be plant based is a better solution than charge high fees for new pets?

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On 4/27/2024 at 12:50 PM, RomaVicta said:

We should curtail child births, but the DNA won't allow it.

Well, some people have limited child births in their own lives. I know middle-aged couples and people who have no children by choice. I have no children. I made the decision long ago that getting married and raising a family was not in my skill set. No way! And it has not limited my social life at all, as I discovered there are many attractive/educated/intelligent women who are cool with the no marriage/kids scenario. I have always been right up front about it. 

Plus, having no kids has massive ecological benefits long-term, adding zero consumers on the planet. 

I have made a lot of dumb decisions in my life. But not this one.

Best decision I ever made. 

Except for attending UT, that is. 

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We will need smart people in the future. Where are they going to come from if smart people do not have kids?

My son (26) talks about this. Says he feels bad bringing a kid into a fucked up world. My reply was well he has a blue passport and that alone is a leg up.

But it is his call and I will support either way. As for me? I loved being a dad to two kick ass kids who are both devoted to finding solutions.

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Last week, a private developer's application to dam Big Canyon, a major threat to the confluence and the entire Grand Canyon region, was finally denied. The dam was first proposed in 2020.

The Big Canyon decision is a win for tribal sovereignty and reaffirms the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission's commitment not to approve initial permits for hydropower projects on tribal lands without consent from the tribe whose land it is.

In denying the developer a permit, the commission noted that, "because the proposed project would be located entirely on Navajo Nation and the Nation has stated that it opposes issuance of the permit, we deny the application."

 

https://www.grandcanyontrust.org/blog/permit-denied-big-canyon-dam-near-grand-canyon

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On 4/29/2024 at 9:42 AM, InkaUtexas said:

We will need smart people in the future. Where are they going to come from if smart people do not have kids?

My son (26) talks about this. Says he feels bad bringing a kid into a fucked up world. My reply was well he has a blue passport and that alone is a leg up.

But it is his call and I will support either way. As for me? I loved being a dad to two kick ass kids who are both devoted to finding solutions.


Won't need smart people in the future if there are no people.

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On 4/26/2024 at 10:46 AM, Biff Tannen said:

Absolutely.  My wife is 2nd generation Italian-American and she's the reason I appreciate food as much as I do now.  When you go to Italy, they cherish the food and it is grown/raised in sustainable ways.  They use mostly local ingredients and, while they eat meat, it's not the staple of the meal in most instances.

Much of this is that Italy was a poor country until rapid industrialization following WW2 and much of the south still is very poor and much of its business is dependent upon the trappings of a pure culinary tradition (which arguably wasn’t invented until after WW2 as well)

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