2022 NBA Offseason Thread — Trades, Free Agency, Firings, Sacramento doing dumb things, etc

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

Are you seriously suggesting that San Antonio has not been better managed over its history than the fucking Timberwolves? The T-wolves have drafted some great players and just fucked away their best years. They've got a potential superstar on the roster right now who will be entering his prime right about the time the bill comes due for this stupid fucking Gobert trade. The Gobert move is one you make when you imagine this is the year to go all in. If that's what the MN management is thinking they deserve what they get. They would have been much better served keeping those 2023 and 2025 unprotected picks with an eye on getting support for Ant when he's truly in his prime. The 2023 pick really hurts b/c the pick there could still really fit the timeline for capitalizing on Ant.

I didn’t suggest that at all. San Antonio has been spoiled because they won the 97 draft and benefited for 20 years. And shocker, since Duncan retired, San Antonio hasn’t done a damn thing.

Trading draft picks 4-6 years from now to instantly compete. Especially when you’re trading for someone who covers all of your shortcomings. Wolves suck at contesting shots and rebounding? Go get the best defensive big this league has seen in decades. The chances those ‘27 and ‘29 picks become as impactful as him is very small

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

Okay.... I'm trying to understand what the relevance is of having first round picks on the current roster who are on their second contract? Is that supposed to be some sort of dig or indictment of their drafting/development? Honestly, what is your point?
They've been drafting at the end of the first round for 20+ fucking years minus the last 3 (including this year). And their success of picking guys in the 26-30 spots is pretty fucking amazing. How many of those guys do you think get second contracts, anywhere? In the last 15 years, they hit on Dejounte Murray (29), Derrick White (29), Keldon Johnson (29), Kyle Anderson (30), Cory Joseph (29), George Hill (26) and Tiago Splitter (28). Not to mention trading up to get Kawhi Leonard. What in the blue fuck are you even talking about?

No. The “Minnesota gave up too much “ crowd, that you seem to be apart of, have no idea how many teams don’t have players get a second contract with the team that drafted


Wolves have kat, ant and soon to be jaden mcdaniels that are going to get second contracts


First round picks as assets are so overrated

[SilasCoade 2,620]

20 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

First round picks as assets are so overrated

So which is it: San Antonio capitalized on first round draft picks and got spoiled because of it, or draft picks ain't shit? Pick one and stick with it.

For reference, in the last 20 years exactly 3 NBA champions have not been led by a star the team drafted in the first round: 2004 Pistons, 2019 Fuck Kawhi Leonard, and 2020 bubble Bron. First round picks kind of matter.

Edited August 24, 2022 by Llogg

[aggie08 20,212]

18 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

No. The “Minnesota gave up too much “ crowd, that you seem to be apart of, have no idea how many teams don’t have players get a second contract with the team that drafted


Wolves have kat, ant and soon to be jaden mcdaniels that are going to get second contracts


First round picks as assets are so overrated

It's not that people are overrating first round picks; it's that you're overrating Rudy Gobert. 

He fucking sucks at playoff basketball. Which making a dent in the playoffs is kind of the point when you do a deal like this.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

So which is it: San Antonio capitalized on first round draft picks and got spoiled because of it, or draft picks ain't shit? Pick one and stick with it.

What? If the wolves were rebuilding why would they give up draft picks?

Teams like OKC, Utah, SA have all traded stars for draft picks. Those will have a long haul ahead of them unless they win the lotto-with their own pick.


They’re not getting Tim Duncan with Minnesotas, the clippers or the hawks pick.

[TonyTexas 10,378]

This is perfect for OKC. They will be firmly at the front of the tank for Wembanyama race. 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

It's not that people are overrating first round picks; it's that you're overrating Rudy Gobert. 
He fucking sucks at playoff basketball. Which making a dent in the playoffs is kind of the point when you do a deal like this.

His team sucks. Conley, Mitchell and Bojan were revolving doors against Dallas.


And only one team can win with small ball and win it well.

[Js1 82,369]

6 minutes ago, TonyTexas said:

This is perfect for OKC. They will be firmly at the front of the tank for Wembanyama race. 

 

That didn't take long

[BigOrange1 6,352]

that really sucks for chet.  such a unique prospect, but i'm glad it's not the rockets who are going to have to be the team holding their breaths for potentially the next 10-15 years.

[Chewbacca 7,612]

18 minutes ago, aggie08 said:

It's not that people are overrating first round picks; it's that you're overrating Rudy Gobert. 

He fucking sucks at playoff basketball. Which making a dent in the playoffs is kind of the point when you do a deal like this.

This is 100% accurate.  Can't say I'm sad to see the Jazz blow themselves up, but Rudy ain't the answer to any question.  

Unrelated, but I'm also very happy to see KD ain't going to Phoenix.  

[aggie08 20,212]

25 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

And only one team can win with small ball and win it well.

If your goal is to counter Golden State with size, you should have gotten Steven Adams for 1/10th the cost. He'd probably be slightly more impactful in a playoff series against small ball lineups with elite guards.

Edited August 24, 2022 by aggie08

[Loch Ness Monster 3,529]

I'm shocked Chet is already hurt.

[Loch Ness Monster 3,529]

Video of Chet injured one minute into a pro am game contesting a Lebron fast break.

https://streamable.com/zpg2g3

 

[Kermit 3,081]

I Foresee NBA Contracts Banning Any Kind Of Non-League Affiliated Play. 
 

Typing like Dejounte is exhausting.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,327]

2 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

And shocker, since Duncan retired, San Antonio hasn’t done a damn thing.

Trading draft picks 4-6 years from now to instantly compete. Especially when you’re trading for someone who covers all of your shortcomings. Wolves suck at contesting shots and rebounding? Go get the best defensive big this league has seen in decades. The chances those ‘27 and ‘29 picks become as impactful as him is very small

Spurs - 1 wcf and 2 series wins AFTER Tim Duncan's retirement. You know, the same as the entire 34 year history of the wolves. 

2 hours ago, aggie08 said:

It's not that people are overrating first round picks; it's that you're overrating Rudy Gobert. 

He fucking sucks at playoff basketball. Which making a dent in the playoffs is kind of the point when you do a deal like this.

You clearly missed the part where a one dimensional 7-footer with a terrible contract who you can't post up and don't have to defend outside of 7 feet and gets played off the floor in the playoffs and publicly calls out his teammates covers up "all of their shortcomings."

[Murfdogg21 4,394]

2 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:

that really sucks for chet.  such a unique prospect, but i'm glad it's not the rockets who are going to have to be the team holding their breaths for potentially the next 10-15 years.

 

and if OKC gets Wembanyama they will really have the market cornered on lanky skeletons with ball handling skills until their bodies shatter. 

[BigOrange1 6,352]

that's why i made sure to through the word potentially in there - haha.

[Loch Ness Monster 3,529]

Believe Minnesota has the 13th best odds to win the title and Gobert is in his 30s with a monster contract. 

Would figure trading 5 first rounders is either a win now move (gives you a top 5 type team) or for a young all star with lots of runway ahead of him. Bad trade imo.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

You clearly missed the part where a one dimensional 7-footer with a terrible contract who you can't post up and don't have to defend outside of 7 feet and gets played off the floor in the playoffs and publicly calls out his teammates covers up "all of their shortcomings."

So the spurs have done nothing.

[SilasCoade 2,620]

I don't believe anyone is arguing the Spurs have had a stronger 2022 offseason than the Wolves. But I do believe literally everyone sans the guy with the head Ball clown avatar is arguing that the Wolves fucked up by mortgaging the farm for a guy who is a bad fit for the modern game, a bad teammate, and a Frenchman.

[Braff Zacklin 13,284]

5 hours ago, Kermit said:

Typing like Dejounte is exhausting.

Embrace the Title Case. It Brings a Smile to Your Face at Anyplace!

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

I don't believe anyone is arguing the Spurs have had a stronger 2022 offseason than the Wolves. But I do believe literally everyone sans the guy with the head Ball clown avatar is arguing that the Wolves fucked up by mortgaging the farm for a guy who is a bad fit for the modern game, a bad teammate, and a Frenchman.

I’m using SA as an example because Mitch is a spurs fan .

Draft picks are just lottery tickets. Hitting on just one fast forward a rebuild by years. Hitting one in the late lottery is pretty damn hard.

To a team that’s in compete now mode, they don’t mean much of anything. Besides teams buy back into the first round all of the time.

As for Rudy.

Yea. He sucks.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/utah-jazz-record-without-rudy-gobert-career

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jazz-record-without-donovan-mitchell

[ztejas 42,744]

7 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

I’m using SA as an example because Mitch is a spurs fan .

Draft picks are just lottery tickets. Hitting on just one fast forward a rebuild by years. Hitting one in the late lottery is pretty damn hard.

To a team that’s in compete now mode, they don’t mean much of anything. Besides teams buy back into the first round all of the time.

As for Rudy.

Yea. He sucks.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/utah-jazz-record-without-rudy-gobert-career

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/jazz-record-without-donovan-mitchell

I know you're so ass-whipped as a fan that it's difficult to not retain some hope that your franchise hasn't fucked it up yet again, but this is getting a little excessive to the point where I'm sort of concerned about your emotional well-being once we hit live action and you slowly come to terms with the fact that that has the potential to go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history. 

You aren't quite in compete now mode, for starters. You couldn't even get out of the first round last year. You're still throwing gasoline on $31M and flicking a cigarette at it with DLo on the roster. You're throwing another $34M at a guy that has never given any objective observer an inkling that he could be a major piece on a Finals team. You have an extremely exciting prospect that in a couple of years could easily be one of the best 5 players in the league - but that in itself isn't going to get you anywhere close to a championship. Gobert's shortcomings have already been addressed - and on top of that he's a 7 footer entering his 30s. 

Going down the list from there, you have, on the roster:

Jaden McDaniels

Kyle Anderson

Taurean Prince

and a bunch of other bullshit that I'm not going to waste my time listing. 

Salary-wise - you're just under the tax threshold and I'm assuming you're ownership isn't interested in spending much beyond that. You have ant for this season and next under his current deal before he's going to be a $40M cap hit in his own right. 

Maybe first-round picks really aren't all that valuable, but I'd gladly take a few picks in the late 1st round over the rights to pay Gobert, KAT and DLO over $100M. 

[SilasCoade 2,620]

Wolves likely to pick late teens to early 20s for 2023. Odds of getting a valuable contributor at those spots is not bad. Superstar? Not likely. Equal value to Gobert? Easy.

In the last 5 years alone you've got: Tyrese Maxey at #21, Matisse Thybulle at #20, Brandon Clarke at #21, Huerter at #19, DiVincenzo at #17, John Collins at #19, OG Anunoby at #23.

You can argue that Gobert is a better player than all those guys if you want, but none of them are getting benched in the playoffs b/c they are such matchup liabilities. The point isn't really that you could replace Gobert 1:1 with that draft pick. The point is that the value Gobert brings is not commensurate with his contract. It's made even worse value when you sacrifice the chance to get a cheap young contributor to help your budding superstar when he hits his prime. Gobert is a 31 year old big with next to no offensive game making $40-got-damn-million-American-fucking-dollars per year. Utah giving him that contract was kind of dumb but they were sort of over a barrel. MN taking on that contract and giving up a haul of picks for it is ludicrous. 

The only reason this desperation signing makes any sense is if you already know ANT is going to the Lakers first chance he gets.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

Jesus Ldogg. Really went fishing for those guys to try and compare him to an all nba talent.

Donte DiVincenzo? The fuck?

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

I know you're so ass-whipped as a fan that it's difficult to not retain some hope that your franchise hasn't fucked it up yet again, but this is getting a little excessive to the point where I'm sort of concerned about your emotional well-being once we hit live action and you slowly come to terms with the fact that that has the potential to go down as one of the worst trades in NBA history. 
You aren't quite in compete now mode, for starters. You couldn't even get out of the first round last year. You're still throwing gasoline on $31M and flicking a cigarette at it with DLo on the roster. You're throwing another $34M at a guy that has never given any objective observer an inkling that he could be a major piece on a Finals team. You have an extremely exciting prospect that in a couple of years could easily be one of the best 5 players in the league - but that in itself isn't going to get you anywhere close to a championship. Gobert's shortcomings have already been addressed - and on top of that he's a 7 footer entering his 30s. 
Going down the list from there, you have, on the roster:
Jaden McDaniels
Kyle Anderson
Taurean Prince
and a bunch of other bullshit that I'm not going to waste my time listing. 
Salary-wise - you're just under the tax threshold and I'm assuming you're ownership isn't interested in spending much beyond that. You have ant for this season and next under his current deal before he's going to be a $40M cap hit in his own right. 
Maybe first-round picks really aren't all that valuable, but I'd gladly take a few picks in the late 1st round over the rights to pay Gobert, KAT and DLO over $100M. 

It all comes down to not just losing in the first but how they lost. I felt they controlled most of the series. They shored up the reasons they lost, rebounding and rim protection by making a splash for one of the best in nba history


I’m with ya if Minnesota was losing by double digits for the majority of every playoff game and lost 4-0 or 4-1.

But they didn’t. And here we are.

[Murfdogg21 4,394]

MN is going to be eating some crow croissants covered in shit fondue after next season. 

[Loch Ness Monster 3,529]

Don't think its as quite as bad as when Danny Ainge took advantage of the Nets with the old Celtics guys but once again he proves he can put another GM over the barrel and get way more than most would expect.

Wolves went all in and they are still have the 13th best odds. Actually think Gobert is a regular season floor raiser but that doesn't mean much to me. Maybe the Wolves exceed expectations and are the 7th or 8th best team or so entering the playoffs. Okay I guess.

ANT is impressive but probably won't hit his peak until 3-6 years from now when Gobert is already out of the picture.

[ztejas 42,744]

17 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

It all comes down to not just losing in the first but how they lost. I felt they controlled most of the series. They shored up the reasons they lost, rebounding and rim protection by making a splash for one of the best in nba history


I’m with ya if Minnesota was losing by double digits for the majority of every playoff game and lost 4-0 or 4-1.

But they didn’t. And here we are.

I'm a big ant fan so I want to see your team do well - but you didn't improve the odds of winning a title while ant is still in Minny. 

You potentially made your team better going into 2023 but there were more clear cut ways to better your team even further both in the short term and long term that your ownership didn't pursue. 

Just accept that that was a terrible trade and hope for the best. 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

I'm a big ant fan so I want to see your team do well - but you didn't improve the odds of winning a title while ant is still in Minny. 
You potentially made your team better going into 2023 but there were more clear cut ways to better your team even further both in the short term and long term that your ownership didn't pursue. 
Just accept that that was a terrible trade and hope for the best. 

You can’t say there were clear cut ways to better the team short term without saying how.

Clint Capella or Myles Turner can’t hold Rudy’s jock if that was what you were going to go with

[ztejas 42,744]

3 minutes ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

You can’t say there were clear cut ways to better the team short term without saying how.

Clint Capella or Myles Turner can’t hold Rudy’s jock if that was what you were going to go with

Oh please. 

I've already exceeded my limit for how much I'm interested in posting in these threads. I played along for a bit because I like you as a poster. 

Have a good one man - know that I'm cheering for y'all 

[TonyTexas 10,378]

This will be hilarious 

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

If Anthony Davis wasn’t 29 at the start of this season, Austin reaves would be their only contributor who’s still in his 20s

[aggie08 20,212]

I still can't believe the hubris of LeBron campaigning to get Russ. You just know that a big part of that was him fantasizing about the narrative of his greatness transforming Russ into a championship-caliber player.

[SilasCoade 2,620]

1 hour ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

Jesus Ldogg. Really went fishing for those guys to try and compare him to an all nba talent.

Donte DiVincenzo? The fuck?

Read good do ya? I specifically said it wasn't about direct comparison to Gobert, but about pointing out there is easy value in that one draft pick. 

FWIW, per 100 possessions attached. Pretty close for a guy that costs you just over 10 cents on the dollar for the other guy.

 

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

Read good do ya? I specifically said it wasn't about direct comparison to Gobert, but about pointing out there is easy value in that one draft pick. 
FWIW, per 100 possessions attached. Pretty close for a guy that costs you just over 10 cents on the dollar for the other guy.
 

Pretty close at what?

I don’t expect Rudy to be some offensive force. We already have ways to score. Donte hasn’t come close to playing a full season ever, and he sucks at shooting.

8-9th guy off the bench for a good team. That’s why he went from the pinnacle in Milwaukee to the kings.

Yes you can find glue guys that you’ll hang on to in the later lottery/early 20s for every 5 guys you listed, there’s dozens out of the league, in Europe, signed with a different team after 2 years.

Edit guess he’s with the warriors. Who cares. Could be a revive of his career there and get more money in 2 years

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,327]

16 hours ago, MNLonghornFUKM said:

What? If the wolves were rebuilding why would they give up draft picks?

Teams like OKC, Utah, SA have all traded stars for draft picks. Those will have a long haul ahead of them unless they win the lotto-with their own pick.


They’re not getting Tim Duncan with Minnesotas, the clippers or the hawks pick.

You know what's so hilarious about this post? Do you know how the spurs ended up with Tim Duncan? They weren't rebuilding. They were title contenders, way way way closer to a ring than the current wolves are. David Robinson was a top 5 player in the league in his prime, got hurt, and they ended up in the lottery. Could you imagine what the Spurs franchise would be today if in 1996 they pushed all their chips in the table and traded away half a decade of unprotected picks and swaps for some borderline all star "missing piece"? They'd probably look a lot like the twolves last 25 years and be playing in Vegas or Seattle. 

You keep talking about these unprotected picks like they are guaranteed to be late 20s. Injuries happen. Stars get unhappy and demand trades or sign elsewhere as free agents. Look at the Rockets thread and see them salivating over all those Nets picks. Look at the Warriors and their next generation young core that they have because they didn't trade away a bunch of unprotected picks. 

Of all franchises, the Wolves are about the last one that should be tempting fate like this. And all this for one dimensional bad teammate over 30 Rudy Gobert and his shitty contract? 

But maybe you're right and Gobert is the missing piece to a championship? 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Mitch Cumsteen

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

I don’t know how you’d react in 96 if you traded 4 un protected firsts. Obviously you’re competing with Jordan coming back, shaq and Hakeem.

Hindsight’s 50/50 on that. Obviously the right play there would’ve not been to trade the picks.

If a disgruntled star(kat and ant) ask for a trade and this thing flops then we get picks back.

Wolves aren’t going anywhere with kat as a 5. And we’re not considered desirable destination for free agents so you gotta win the lottery and hope a generational talent is there that year.


Having one of kat or Rudy on the court at all times isn’t a terrible problem to have.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

Also where are you getting this bad teammate take? Joe ingles liked playing with Rudy. Seems like shit hit the fan when Mitchell stopped trying on defense and they replaced Rubio with Conley Jr.

To me, anyways, Rudy was the only stable force on that team

[Aqua Buddha 13,902]

20 hours ago, TonyTexas said:

This is perfect for OKC. They will be firmly at the front of the tank for Wembanyama race. 

 

Our for the season.  I thought if they had everyone healthy and played everyone, they’d make the playoffs or the play in game this season.  Might be unlikely now.

Curious as to what they do this season now with SGA.  They’ve insisted they’ll never trade him but the longer the timeline goes, the more uncertain that is.

Lulz if they get the #1 next year and take the tall skinny French dude along with Chet.

[Prepuce of Doom 20,856]

 

[HookEm 2,432]

14 hours ago, Llogg said:

Read good do ya? I specifically said it wasn't about direct comparison to Gobert, but about pointing out there is easy value in that one draft pick. 

FWIW, per 100 possessions attached. Pretty close for a guy that costs you just over 10 cents on the dollar for the other guy.

 

As an outside observer, I'm not a HUGE fan of the Gobert trade, but LOL this is a terrible, terrible comparison.  First, they play different positions.  But mainly, it completely misses the huge benefits that Gobert brings.  3.7 blocks is in another universe from 0.5 blocks.  65% FG >>> 41% FG.  19.6 rebounds >>> 9.2 reb.   

Gobert is a 3-time DPoY.  It seems people are missing this fact.  He immediately raises the floor of the T-Wolves.  Over the last 35 years, almost ever DPoY has ended up winning a title at some point in their career.  And those that didn't usually had multiple finals appearances:

• Michael Cooper - 5 Titles
• Michael Jordan - 6 Titles, GOAT
• Mark Eaton - Multiple Conference Finals
• Dennis Rodman - 5 Titles
• David Robinson - 2 Titles
• Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 Titles
• Dikembe Mutombo - Multiple NBA Finals
• Gary Payton - 1 Title*, Multiple NBA Finals
• Alonzo Mourning - 1 Title*, Multiple Conference Finals
• Ben Wallace - 1 Title
• Ron Artest - 1 Title
• Marcus Camby - NBA Finals
• Kevin Garnett - 1 Title
• Dwight Howard - 1 Title*, NBA Finals
• Tyson Chandler - 1 Title
• Marc Gasol - 1 Title
• Joakim Noah - Conference Finals
• Kawhi Leonard - 2 Titles
• Draymond Green - 4 Titles
• Giannis Antetokounmpo - 1 Title
• Marcus Smart - NBA Finals

Most of these guys were still contributing at a high level into their mid-30s.  

Gobert also helped the French team win bronze in the 2020 Olympics and knocked off the USA in the 2019 FIBA championship.  

I respect the T-Wolves for taking their shot.  KAT is one of the softest bigs I have ever seen.  That doesn't matter anymore. He can float around the perimeter shooting 3s. Gobert can man the middle.

Time will tell whether this was a stupid trade or not, but I'm going to give it at least a season to see how everyone plays together.

[Loch Ness Monster 3,529]

We're at a unique time in NBA history where a player can be dominant defensively against one team and nearly played off the floor against another team. If it was still the early 2000's Gobert would have much more value come playoff time. 

[shadow_operative 15,931]

21 hours ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Believe Minnesota has the 13th best odds to win the title and Gobert is in his 30s with a monster contract. 

Would figure trading 5 first rounders is either a win now move (gives you a top 5 type team) or for a young all star with lots of runway ahead of him. Bad trade imo.

it was a win now move, Minny led the league in PPG but was horrible defensively. adding the perennial DPOY to the roster was done to help them win now.

[Mitch Cumsteen 18,327]

47 minutes ago, HookEm said:

As an outside observer, I'm not a HUGE fan of the Gobert trade, but LOL this is a terrible, terrible comparison.  First, they play different positions.  But mainly, it completely misses the huge benefits that Gobert brings.  3.7 blocks is in another universe from 0.5 blocks.  65% FG >>> 41% FG.  19.6 rebounds >>> 9.2 reb.   

Gobert is a 3-time DPoY.  It seems people are missing this fact.  He immediately raises the floor of the T-Wolves.  Over the last 35 years, almost ever DPoY has ended up winning a title at some point in their career.  And those that didn't usually had multiple finals appearances:

• Michael Cooper - 5 Titles
• Michael Jordan - 6 Titles, GOAT
• Mark Eaton - Multiple Conference Finals
• Dennis Rodman - 5 Titles
• David Robinson - 2 Titles
• Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 Titles
• Dikembe Mutombo - Multiple NBA Finals
• Gary Payton - 1 Title*, Multiple NBA Finals
• Alonzo Mourning - 1 Title*, Multiple Conference Finals
• Ben Wallace - 1 Title
• Ron Artest - 1 Title
• Marcus Camby - NBA Finals
• Kevin Garnett - 1 Title
• Dwight Howard - 1 Title*, NBA Finals
• Tyson Chandler - 1 Title
• Marc Gasol - 1 Title
• Joakim Noah - Conference Finals
• Kawhi Leonard - 2 Titles
• Draymond Green - 4 Titles
• Giannis Antetokounmpo - 1 Title
• Marcus Smart - NBA Finals

Most of these guys were still contributing at a high level into their mid-30s.  

Gobert also helped the French team win bronze in the 2020 Olympics and knocked off the USA in the 2019 FIBA championship.  

I respect the T-Wolves for taking their shot.  KAT is one of the softest bigs I have ever seen.  That doesn't matter anymore. He can float around the perimeter shooting 3s. Gobert can man the middle.

Time will tell whether this was a stupid trade or not, but I'm going to give it at least a season to see how everyone plays together.

I'm not disagreeing with you wrt to Gobert being a floor raiser on defense, but there is just about no NBA award as useless as DPOY. It's voted by the media and the statistic about the DPOY winning a title or being in the finals is probably more about correlation than causation. Half the time they just give it to the guy with the most blocks, which doesn't necessarily mean they are the best defensive player. Shit, Michael Jordan wasn't even the best defender on his own team much less the entire league.

Also, I think it's pretty funny that the only outlier on this list is actually the guy we are talking about. 

Obviously, this needs to play out and it should be interesting to watch, especially come playoff time when teams can and will gameplan more around him. I think I've beat this trade into the ground and why I think it is terrible, but the other thing that nobody talks about is the players that Minnesota gave up in making the salaries match. Beverly, Vanderbilt and Beasley were 3 of the top 8 in their rotation last year and Beverly was their best defender probably followed by Vanderbilt. You could make the argument that Beverly was more valuable overall to them than Russell was, and certainly for what they are both paid.  That bench is pretty thin now although the Slo Mo signing was probably a good move. Good luck rolling with Bryn Forbes and Austin Rivers though. Yikes.

Obviously the plan is for Gobert to make up for any defensive shortcomings but having really shitty perimeter defenders and funneling them to Gobert didn't really work out that great for Utah. And now Towns, who is a foul machine to begin with, is almost assuredly going to have to match up with a quicker guy on the perimeter. 

I'm sure that I'll be proven wrong about this trade and @MNLonghornFUKM will necrobump this shit to mock me as the Wolves steamroll their way to the finals.... but there really isn't one fucking thing I like about this trade from the Minnesota perspective.

[MNLonghornFUKM 8,780]

I have no idea if this team is gonna win anything. Gun to my head probably not unless kat grows some balls and ant becomes super human. Latter probably happens instead of the former. Gobert taking defensive load should keep kats head straight and out of foul trouble since he’s such a uniquely gifted offensive talent to be a defensive anchor.


Whatever. I’m so deprived of anything playoffs. 2 playoff appearances since I graduated HS. One we didn’t have a chance Vs houston and the other I really thought we were the better team against Memphis, like I said this trade probably doesn’t happen if the playoff series was like the houston one where we lost 4-1, and got our asses smoked. Yea cappella exposed kat and other things.


Vanderbilts motor will be missed, he was a poor man’s Kenneth faried. But he’s not a starting PF on a championship team. But a good glue guy.

Pat Bev lol. His act wore thin….unnecessary take fouls, technical fouls for something dumb, trash talk the wrong guy (Ja). He’s a culture changer for sure…but maybe sometimes a little too much gasoline. I’d take him back tho

Beas just was a chucker. Could go 2-9 or 7-13. All depends how the last game or 2 went and see if he’s due for a good one.


And I’m not gonna bump anything Mitch…you’re already in for a rough season

[Loch Ness Monster 3,529]

Good luck to the TWolves! Certainly don't think most have hate in their heart for them.

Love basketball but certainly wish there was a little more variance at times. At least there's more to play for than German/French soccer leagues. Before the season starts they already know the champion.

[shadow_operative 15,931]

 

[SilasCoade 2,620]

7 hours ago, HookEm said:

As an outside observer, I'm not a HUGE fan of the Gobert trade, but LOL this is a terrible, terrible comparison.  First, they play different positions.  But mainly, it completely misses the huge benefits that Gobert brings.  3.7 blocks is in another universe from 0.5 blocks.  65% FG >>> 41% FG.  19.6 rebounds >>> 9.2 reb.   

Gobert is a 3-time DPoY.  It seems people are missing this fact.  He immediately raises the floor of the T-Wolves.  Over the last 35 years, almost ever DPoY has ended up winning a title at some point in their career.  And those that didn't usually had multiple finals appearances:

• Michael Cooper - 5 Titles
• Michael Jordan - 6 Titles, GOAT
• Mark Eaton - Multiple Conference Finals
• Dennis Rodman - 5 Titles
• David Robinson - 2 Titles
• Hakeem Olajuwon - 2 Titles
• Dikembe Mutombo - Multiple NBA Finals
• Gary Payton - 1 Title*, Multiple NBA Finals
• Alonzo Mourning - 1 Title*, Multiple Conference Finals
• Ben Wallace - 1 Title
• Ron Artest - 1 Title
• Marcus Camby - NBA Finals
• Kevin Garnett - 1 Title
• Dwight Howard - 1 Title*, NBA Finals
• Tyson Chandler - 1 Title
• Marc Gasol - 1 Title
• Joakim Noah - Conference Finals
• Kawhi Leonard - 2 Titles
• Draymond Green - 4 Titles
• Giannis Antetokounmpo - 1 Title
• Marcus Smart - NBA Finals

Most of these guys were still contributing at a high level into their mid-30s.  

Gobert also helped the French team win bronze in the 2020 Olympics and knocked off the USA in the 2019 FIBA championship.  

I respect the T-Wolves for taking their shot.  KAT is one of the softest bigs I have ever seen.  That doesn't matter anymore. He can float around the perimeter shooting 3s. Gobert can man the middle.

Time will tell whether this was a stupid trade or not, but I'm going to give it at least a season to see how everyone plays together.

Again, my point was not a player to player comparison. It was about value to the team. I'm not suggesting DiVicenzo should be an all star. I'm just saying you use those late first round picks to fill out your roster with reliable production role players and occasionally find a gem. DiVicenzo was not a gem but he's a rotation guy. You can find athletic defenders late in the first round, not have them be 10 years older than your best player, and not pay them 10 times what they're worth. I don't see how this is a ridiculous hot take.

[Dutchrudder 10,973]

Gobert is not being paid 10x his value. He has 4 years and about 170m left on his deal which is about 42m a year average. I don't think anyone disagrees with saying that's  overpaying him, but he's likely worth 30m a year realistically. But we know NBA deals don't work like that, teams often overpay to keep their best players, and then a few years later the cap increases so much that it doesn't seem so terrible. 

The things I don't like about the Gobert trade are that the picks are all unprotected, not even a top 2 protection, which is very shortsighted. And they didn't move Russell in the trade along with his 31m expiring deal. I think they would have been better off keeping Beverly and the other pieces, and I think Utah would have been fine with it because they aren't trying to win. But I get it, they are going all in with a pair of jacks and hoping it works out in the end.  

Btw, on the late first discussion, Gobert himself was the 27th pick by the Jazz 9 years ago... Those do work out sometimes, but you gotta have tickets to play the lottery. 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Dutchrudder