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NBA 2022-2023 Season Thread


Mitch Cumsteen

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20 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

OKC lost last night and went from the #8 seed to being completely out.  My guess is every night will be like that for all of these teams:

 

Utah sitting there trying to quasi tank, but all these mediocre ass teams keep coming down to them.

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19 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

The Mavs...smh.  Oh yeah, and Kyrie has been playing through plantar fasciitis.

 

I've never understood teams and players' infatuation with Kyrie. Even removing the off the court and availability stuff (which you obviously can't), what evidence exists that he impacts winning? Dude has gotten a LOT of mileage out of 3 (admittedly stellar) playoff games in 2016.

But how do teams talk themselves into, "Well, if he's paired with a top 10 all-time player and doesn't have to worry about the little things like leadership. Team building. Or defense. Then he can just focus on being a shot creating assassin in big games. Assuming that he's happy with his current financial situation and team management." What an incredibly narrow path to success.

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Scorching hot take #1 - The Mavs issues are as much Luka as it is Kyrie.  The incessant bitching at refs and just slightly-less-incessant bitching and side-eyes at teammates & coaches, coupled with his gravity bound disinterest in defense and now he's admitting in press conferences that his head hasn't been in the game is not the stuff of a franchise player.

Captain Obvious here, but Luka is way more Harden than Lebron.  I probably wouldn't have Luka in my top 10 MVP ballot for this season.

1 hour ago, aggie08 said:

"Well, if he's paired with a top 10 all-time player and doesn't have to worry about the little things like leadership. Team building. Or defense.

The problem is that this works when Kyrie is paired with Lebron, but as I mentioned above, Luka ain't Lebron.  Not even close and because Luka cannot dominate a game like Lebron so Kyrie is going to have to bear more responsibility, which he can't do (this is more an indictment of the Mavs front office, actually).

Luka is also too narcissistic to worry about things like leadership, team building, and defense.

Scorching hot take #2 - 

The Mavs should shut down Luka and Kyrie for the rest of the season.

The Mavs' 2023 pick is owed to the Knicks, but it is top 10 protected and the Mavs are right now in the 11 spot.

https://www.tankathon.com/

Keeping that first round pick (which would bring about a 1 in 6 shot at landing a top 4 pick) is much more valuable to the franchise than a (gentleman's) sweep in the first round at the hands of Denver or Memphis.  Because the Mavs front office have so badly mismanaged the last few years (trading for Kristaps, letting Brunson walk, trading for Kyrie) their paths to improvement are quite narrow - almost non-existent.  The Mavs payroll is already about $100 million next season - and that's before giving a single penny to Kyrie or Christian Wood, if they choose to re-sign either.  So forget free agency.

So this potential top 10 pick (and shot in the dark at Wemby) is probably a more realistic path to improvement than anything else.  Kyrie is dealing with plantar fascitis and Luka is distracted anyway, so just shut the two of them down and give Green and Hardy massive run over the final 2 weeks of the season.

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9 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Scorching hot take #1 - The Mavs issues are as much Luka as it is Kyrie.  The incessant bitching at refs and just slightly-less-incessant bitching and side-eyes at teammates & coaches, coupled with his gravity bound disinterest in defense and now he's admitting in press conferences that his head hasn't been in the game is not the stuff of a franchise player.

Captain Obvious here, but Luka is way more Harden than Lebron.  I probably wouldn't have Luka in my top 10 MVP ballot for this season.

The problem is that this works when Kyrie is paired with Lebron, but as I mentioned above, Luka ain't Lebron.  Not even close and because Luka cannot dominate a game like Lebron so Kyrie is going to have to bear more responsibility, which he can't do (this is more an indictment of the Mavs front office, actually).

Luka is also too narcissistic to worry about things like leadership, team building, and defense.

Scorching hot take #2 - 

The Mavs should shut down Luka and Kyrie for the rest of the season.

The Mavs' 2023 pick is owed to the Knicks, but it is top 10 protected and the Mavs are right now in the 11 spot.

https://www.tankathon.com/

Keeping that first round pick (which would bring about a 1 in 6 shot at landing a top 4 pick) is much more valuable to the franchise than a (gentleman's) sweep in the first round at the hands of Denver or Memphis.  Because the Mavs front office have so badly mismanaged the last few years (trading for Kristaps, letting Brunson walk, trading for Kyrie) their paths to improvement are quite narrow - almost non-existent.  The Mavs payroll is already about $100 million next season - and that's before giving a single penny to Kyrie or Christian Wood, if they choose to re-sign either.  So forget free agency.

So this potential top 10 pick (and shot in the dark at Wemby) is probably a more realistic path to improvement than anything else.  Kyrie is dealing with plantar fascitis and Luka is distracted anyway, so just shut the two of them down and give Green and Hardy massive run over the final 2 weeks of the season.

Interesting perspective.  Luka is burning himself out maybe

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16 hours ago, aggie08 said:

Perk having beef with KD is so fucking pathetic. His friendship with KD kept him in the league getting paid multiple years longer than his talent deserved.

More than that, wasn't his "insider info" on KD's free agent situation before he went to GS the biggest reason he got air time on ESPN to begin with?

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1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

Scorching hot take #1 - The Mavs issues are as much Luka as it is Kyrie.  The incessant bitching at refs and just slightly-less-incessant bitching and side-eyes at teammates & coaches, coupled with his gravity bound disinterest in defense and now he's admitting in press conferences that his head hasn't been in the game is not the stuff of a franchise player.

Captain Obvious here, but Luka is way more Harden than Lebron.  I probably wouldn't have Luka in my top 10 MVP ballot for this season.

The problem is that this works when Kyrie is paired with Lebron, but as I mentioned above, Luka ain't Lebron.  Not even close and because Luka cannot dominate a game like Lebron so Kyrie is going to have to bear more responsibility, which he can't do (this is more an indictment of the Mavs front office, actually).

Luka is also too narcissistic to worry about things like leadership, team building, and defense.

Scorching hot take #2 - 

The Mavs should shut down Luka and Kyrie for the rest of the season.

The Mavs' 2023 pick is owed to the Knicks, but it is top 10 protected and the Mavs are right now in the 11 spot.

https://www.tankathon.com/

Keeping that first round pick (which would bring about a 1 in 6 shot at landing a top 4 pick) is much more valuable to the franchise than a (gentleman's) sweep in the first round at the hands of Denver or Memphis.  Because the Mavs front office have so badly mismanaged the last few years (trading for Kristaps, letting Brunson walk, trading for Kyrie) their paths to improvement are quite narrow - almost non-existent.  The Mavs payroll is already about $100 million next season - and that's before giving a single penny to Kyrie or Christian Wood, if they choose to re-sign either.  So forget free agency.

So this potential top 10 pick (and shot in the dark at Wemby) is probably a more realistic path to improvement than anything else.  Kyrie is dealing with plantar fascitis and Luka is distracted anyway, so just shut the two of them down and give Green and Hardy massive run over the final 2 weeks of the season.

Solid takes all around.  The silver lining to their collapse may them deciding not to sign Kyrie to a long term max deal.  I figured he'd come in, they'd win some games, he'd sign for 4 years/$200M in the offseason and then miss half the games for various reasons.  I didn't realize their draft situation but yes, a high pick to build around Luka would be better than Kyrie.

As far as what to do with Luka, I have no idea.  His mom is hot, though.

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Man, if we're selling on Luka, I--and 29 other teams--are buying. Dude needs to mature and get his off-the-court life figured out, but he just turned 24. Jason Kidd ain't the guy to help him with that.

With the exception of last year's WCF, dude has been the best player on the court in every playoff series he's been in, and has the dominant numbers to back that up. Not many of those guys available now or ever.

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The Mavs could explore a sign and trade for Kyrie to net a 1st in the process. it's not great, but it's something. He's obviously a locker room cancer, and a huge negative to team leadership. He can't make anyone else better or more successful, he's only capable of being a good one way player to lighten the offensive load on the rest of the team. He needs 4 other guys to defend when he's on the court, same with Luka, and you just can't have 2 players like that coexist. Need to rework the team around Luka and see if they can make it work, or trade him before he leaves on his own.

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2 hours ago, Aqua Buddha said:

For fun but it'll never happen.  Thing is, if I'm Dallas, I'd consider this.  Blows everything up and gets some draft picks.  Dallas should ask for the 2026 Clipper pick.  That's the tasty one.

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I’d look for additional players more than that many picks but either way I’d take that deal. Luka is one guy and players seem better without him

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5 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Aristotle, Plato, and Socretes all rolled into one.

 

When you look at him and what he's done to this franchise ... he's changed everything. What a Classical human being he is.

It was 201 years ago today, Beethoven's symphony No.3 in E flat, which escorted in the Age of Romanticism. And when I look at Kyrie Irving, I think of Beethoven and the Age of the Romantics.

This guy ... has got it all.

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I’d look for additional players more than that many picks but either way I’d take that deal. Luka is one guy and players seem better without him
They are. Luka is a great iso player who fills the stat sheet for himself. But when he was out against Utah in the playoffs, Brunson did great. He involved everyone like a true PG. They were engaged. Luka is the complete opposite. Without the ball, he's useless. He's bad at defense. Not sure who would fit with him because he's not looking to involve anyone.

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5 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

They are. Luka is a great iso player who fills the stat sheet for himself. But when he was out against Utah in the playoffs, Brunson did great. He involved everyone like a true PG. They were engaged. Luka is the complete opposite. Without the ball, he's useless. He's bad at defense. Not sure who would fit with him because he's not looking to involve anyone.
 

Like a much better version of Russ 

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1 hour ago, closetohumping said:

I’d look for additional players more than that many picks but either way I’d take that deal. Luka is one guy and players seem better without him

If anything, Okie City may not take that.  That's a shitload of draft picks for a franchise that seems to draft well.  Then, does Luka pair well with SGA?  (No.)  Sure, the starting five with Luka, SGA, JW, and Chet looks great but how well do they play with each other?

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33 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Like a much better version of Russ 

Sadly yes. Too many people confuse criticizing Luka and that means he sucks. He doesn't. Very good individual player. No one will deny that. But he's not a leader and you aren't going to build around him to win a ring. Last year was the ceiling with Dallas unless you completely overhaul the roster and that won't happen right away. But the Mavs front office is as bad as the Cowboys and many similarities of Cuban and Jerry Jones.

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1 hour ago, BigOrange1 said:

has the mvp ever come from a sub .500 team?  asking for the mavericks thread title.

Listen, you can't expect to go into a home-and-home with Gordon Hayward's Hornets in late March, and expect to survive with a single win and not earn a one-game suspension in the process.

Edited by aggie08
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1 hour ago, BigOrange1 said:

has the mvp ever come from a sub .500 team?  asking for the mavericks thread title.

Losing b2b against the tanking hornets when your playoff life is on the line isn't exactly going to garner much mvp support. They are better off with a 2% chance of getting wemby than subjecting their fans to any more of this. 

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2 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Luka being similar to Harden was a good call. Will probably have a few more good seasons with the Mavs and be moved. Dallas roster is embarrassing.

The difference being that you know you're getting a playoff beast with Luka. That's a pretty huge deal.

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14 minutes ago, Loch Ness Monster said:

Dallas roster is embarrassing.

Yeah, this is not promising at all.  THJ, Bertrans, Maxi, and Javale taking up a combined $50+ million in cap space next season makes my eyes bleed.

  Salary  
Player Age 2022-23 2023-24 2024-25 2025-26 2026-27 2027-28 Guaranteed
Kyrie Irving 31 $38,917,057           $38,917,057
Luka Dončić 24 $37,096,500 $40,064,220 $43,031,940 $45,999,660 $48,967,380   $215,159,700
Tim Hardaway Jr. 31 $19,602,273 $17,897,728 $16,193,183       $53,693,184
Dāvis Bertāns 30 $16,000,000 $17,000,000 $16,000,000       $44,000,000
Christian Wood 27 $14,317,459           $14,317,459
Dwight Powell 31 $11,080,125           $11,080,125
Reggie Bullock 32 $10,012,800 $10,489,600         $15,464,000
Maxi Kleber 31 $9,000,000 $11,000,000 $11,000,000 $11,000,000     $42,000,000
JaVale McGee 35 $5,461,219 $5,734,280 $6,007,341       $17,202,840
Josh Green 22 $3,098,400 $4,765,339         $7,863,739
Frank Ntilikina 24 $2,036,318           $2,036,318
Markieff Morris 33 $1,836,090           $1,836,090
Theo Pinson 27 $1,836,090           $1,836,090
Jaden Hardy 20 $1,017,781 $1,719,864 $2,019,699       $3,137,645
Justin Holiday 33 $569,821           $569,821
McKinley Wright IV 24              
A.J. Lawson 22            
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10 minutes ago, Message Board User said:

Yeah, this is not promising at all.  THJ, Bertrans, Maxi, and Javale taking up a combined $50+ million in cap space next season makes my eyes bleed.

  Salary  
Player Age 2022-23 2023-24 2024-25 2025-26 2026-27 2027-28 Guaranteed
Kyrie Irving 31 $38,917,057           $38,917,057
Luka Dončić 24 $37,096,500 $40,064,220 $43,031,940 $45,999,660 $48,967,380   $215,159,700
Tim Hardaway Jr. 31 $19,602,273 $17,897,728 $16,193,183       $53,693,184
Dāvis Bertāns 30 $16,000,000 $17,000,000 $16,000,000       $44,000,000
Christian Wood 27 $14,317,459           $14,317,459
Dwight Powell 31 $11,080,125           $11,080,125
Reggie Bullock 32 $10,012,800 $10,489,600         $15,464,000
Maxi Kleber 31 $9,000,000 $11,000,000 $11,000,000 $11,000,000     $42,000,000
JaVale McGee 35 $5,461,219 $5,734,280 $6,007,341       $17,202,840
Josh Green 22 $3,098,400 $4,765,339         $7,863,739
Frank Ntilikina 24 $2,036,318           $2,036,318
Markieff Morris 33 $1,836,090           $1,836,090
Theo Pinson 27 $1,836,090           $1,836,090
Jaden Hardy 20 $1,017,781 $1,719,864 $2,019,699       $3,137,645
Justin Holiday 33 $569,821           $569,821
McKinley Wright IV 24              
A.J. Lawson 22            

That Bertans deal is so fucking terrible. I mean it stretches the limits of believability.

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3 hours ago, BigOrange1 said:

the thunder get the best pick between their own and the clippers, the rockets get the worst of the two picks.

Thanks. I just never considered that the Thunder would have a better pick than the Clippers. I will go back to my crying over the 2H officiating of our game.

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The Mavs are the worst run front office in the league. Sure, Charlotte sucks and the Wiz can’t draft for shit, but they aren’t doing blatantly stupid shit with contracts all the time. And even the wiz fleeced them by dropping Bertans on them AND still getting the better player.

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14 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Yeah, this is not promising at all.  THJ, Bertrans, Maxi, and Javale taking up a combined $50+ million in cap space next season makes my eyes bleed.

  Salary  
Player Age 2022-23 2023-24 2024-25 2025-26 2026-27 2027-28 Guaranteed
Kyrie Irving 31 $38,917,057           $38,917,057
Luka Dončić 24 $37,096,500 $40,064,220 $43,031,940 $45,999,660 $48,967,380   $215,159,700
Tim Hardaway Jr. 31 $19,602,273 $17,897,728 $16,193,183       $53,693,184
Dāvis Bertāns 30 $16,000,000 $17,000,000 $16,000,000       $44,000,000
Christian Wood 27 $14,317,459           $14,317,459
Dwight Powell 31 $11,080,125           $11,080,125
Reggie Bullock 32 $10,012,800 $10,489,600         $15,464,000
Maxi Kleber 31 $9,000,000 $11,000,000 $11,000,000 $11,000,000     $42,000,000
JaVale McGee 35 $5,461,219 $5,734,280 $6,007,341       $17,202,840
Josh Green 22 $3,098,400 $4,765,339         $7,863,739
Frank Ntilikina 24 $2,036,318           $2,036,318
Markieff Morris 33 $1,836,090           $1,836,090
Theo Pinson 27 $1,836,090           $1,836,090
Jaden Hardy 20 $1,017,781 $1,719,864 $2,019,699       $3,137,645
Justin Holiday 33 $569,821           $569,821
McKinley Wright IV 24              
A.J. Lawson 22            

I wonder what this team would look like with Brunson, porzonghis, finned smith and dinwiddie?  Or were this guys holding Luka down too?

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I wonder what this team would look like with Brunson, porzonghis, finned smith and dinwiddie?  Or were this guys holding Luka down too?
All of those guys tend to play better without Luka. I know KP has to be glad to be out of Dallas and not getting all the blame. I get he was injured a lot here but when Luka was out and it was his team, he looked comfortable as did the rest of the team. Same as when Brunson ran the team without Luka in the playoffs last year.

Luka is a ball stopper, great iso player. But he's not making anyone better and really, just the opposite.

And Dallas front office has built a terrible contract situation.

Can't imagine Kyrie stays around and it wouldn't matter because him and Luka don't work.
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9 minutes ago, Vic Mackey said:

All of those guys tend to play better without Luka. I know KP has to be glad to be out of Dallas and not getting all the blame. I get he was injured a lot here but when Luka was out and it was his team, he looked comfortable as did the rest of the team. Same as when Brunson ran the team without Luka in the playoffs last year.

Luka is a ball stopper, great iso player. But he's not making anyone better and really, just the opposite.

And Dallas front office has built a terrible contract situation.

Can't imagine Kyrie stays around and it wouldn't matter because him and Luka don't work.

Do you think Kyrie heads to LA?

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Luka absolutely makes everyone better.  The reason guys stats increase outside of Luka of course is his ball dominance.  Like the greats, Bird & Magic, Luka gets everyone involved, but individual stats are lessened because he takes a lot of shots/rebounds/assists himself. 

Not sure what Cuban is up to if he gives KI $50mil/year, will they have enough to get other players?  They really should have not traded for KI, kept Brunson and the others, not to mention losing draft picks.  Does not look good for Dallas over the next few years, and will Luka ride off? 

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I'm so over the MVP debate. It's so stupid. It started in fucking November where after every single game people are talking about who has the best stats and who is the front runner. It's gotten straight up toxic. It would be awesome if whoever wins the award declines to accept it and all the front runners turn it down. Just leave it vacant. Shame on you, media.

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