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Posted

I wish he had been earlier on his check downs. It seemed several times that he kinda stared at the check down before throwing it over late. Seems like he would have been able to get more yards throwing it sooner.

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Posted
36 minutes ago, Jkwellborn said:

I mean, there’s more experience and knowledge in his household that what Texas has in the building. Wonder if he’s been listening to the coaches this whole time and thought, do yall actually know what the fuck you’re talking about?

I think this is a lot of what fans are freaking out about. The one thing everyone was virtually certain about was that Arch would have good footwork and mechanics. It's baffling.

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Posted

The way I see it, he’s a super talented inexperienced QB. He’s going to be really good by the end of the year and great next year. I’d be shocked if he leaves after one year and at this juncture I’d put coming back his senior year as a possibility. 

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Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, Sawbonz said:

FSU qb has to be up there no? Unless the Bama defense turns out to be a fraud that was impressive 

Definitely if he keeps playing like that. LaNorris Sellers is also going to have a good shot.

4 minutes ago, troph said:

The way I see it, he’s a super talented inexperienced QB. He’s going to be really good by the end of the year and great next year. I’d be shocked if he leaves after one year and at this juncture I’d put coming back his senior year as a possibility. 

My take as well. Everything is still moving too fast and he's processing a tick slow, then he's pressing to make up for it, losing his mechanics and spraying the ball erratically. That's going to slow down and it's going to click on for him by mid-season.

Wish we'd had a patsy game 1 to let him warm up before taking on the defending national champs in their house, but he's not going to see another D with that kind of talent until maybe Georgia. 

 

Edited by Pods
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Posted
1 hour ago, troph said:

There was a wide open guy underneath the deep pass because of the double team. Wide open for 20+ yards. When the game slows down for arch he would punish that coverage. 

there were actually several plays like that. 

Last year he was doing the same thing with that exact same route combo. Sark runs the deep post with a route underneath and trailing. Most times its a 15 yard dig. It's meant to put the defense in limbo, but teams run the flyover or cover three on us and our QBs think the post is going to be open because opponents are pattern matching, but smart defenses know how to hand routes off. The jig is up on us. Everyone knows how to handle what we do. We need to make some changes or it's going to be a long year.

44 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

We will see over the next three weeks how this trend continues, but file this one in the growing "Didn't Expect That" folder from the season opener.

 

If you were objectively watching him play last year none of this should be a surprise.

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Posted
Just now, Thatguy said:

Last year he was doing the same thing with that exact same route combo. Sark runs the deep post with a route underneath and trailing. Most times its a 15 yard dig. It's meant to put the defense in limbo, but teams run the flyover or cover three on us and our QBs think the post is going to be open because opponents are pattern matching, but smart defenses know how to hand routes off. The jig is up on us. Everyone knows how to handle what we do. We need to make some changes or it's going to be a long year.

If you were objectively watching him play last year none of this should be a surprise.

There is playing average and bad and then there is whatever that was. 

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Posted
3 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Last year he was doing the same thing with that exact same route combo. Sark runs the deep post with a route underneath and trailing. Most times its a 15 yard dig. It's meant to put the defense in limbo, but teams run the flyover or cover three on us and our QBs think the post is going to be open because opponents are pattern matching, but smart defenses know how to hand routes off. The jig is up on us. Everyone knows how to handle what we do. We need to make some changes or it's going to be a long year.

If you were objectively watching him play last year none of this should be a surprise.

I dont recall balls severely under or over thrown. I was definitely surprised. QB had a bad day. Don't do it again. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

more open receivers than remember.

arch just can't hit them or doesn't see them 

classic milwee coached qb 

I watched the video (because I hate myself) and I agree, more of those throws were there than I realized live. The majority of snaps I think Arch gets to the (or at least a) correct decision and is just late. It's reasonable to expect that anticipation to develop with time, though maybe more like next season than next month. In that sense I feel a little better. A few really were just brutal unforced breakdowns though:

Obviously the first pass of the game. Gets spooked by the pursuing defender and short arms what was schemed for an easy 20 yard game right off the bat. Game in a nutshell.

On the 4th down throw to Livingstone in the endzone, he's got Wingo on a slant on a designed pick play. Guaranteed first down and potentially a TD if Wingo gets some momentum. Instead Arch chooses the higher degree of difficulty with the deep out - actually thorws a decent ball but it's well covered and Livingstone can't quite make the play.

Both third down drags to Wingo, the one in the red zone and the one on the last drive. The latter definitely worse. Just late to make the throw and pressing resulting in unnecessarily bad balls. Hugely consequential unforced errors.

INT - Now we can't see the pattern in the TV view, but as mentioned below Arch turns his back to the defense on the play fake. The throw to Wingo is there if it's dropped over the DB and in front of Wingo. Tough catch but the DB can't do anything about it. Very possible Arch is late allowing the DB to close on what would have been a huge play if thrown on time.

It seems to me the root issue for a lot of this is the composure and anticipation that comes with experience. He's been clunky with touch and timing in the short/intermediate game every time we've seen him at Texas though. While I obviously expect him to play better over the course of the year, if it looked like that coming out of fall camp, I don't expect it will improve enough to really stress the better defenses on the schedule, and Texas will see some more struggles in the passing game. Unless Texas is able to just dominate games with defense and running the ball there could be several stressful, ugly rock fights and a few more Ls in store.

Side note - man, Endries had a really nice game. He is faster than I realized, faster than helm and maybe even Sanders. He should have a great year.

59 minutes ago, troph said:

That’s decent analysis. Arch turning his back to the defense probably not such a great idea yesterday huh?

I think this is absolutely the explanation of that stat. 

Edited by gmr548
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Posted
49 minutes ago, Pods said:

Definitely if he keeps playing like that. LaNorris Sellers is also going to have a good shot.

My take as well. Everything is still moving too fast and he's processing a tick slow, then he's pressing to make up for it, losing his mechanics and spraying the ball erratically. That's going to slow down and it's going to click on for him by mid-season.

Wish we'd had a patsy game 1 to let him warm up before taking on the defending national champs in their house, but he's not going to see another D with that kind of talent until maybe Georgia. 

 

I think there's a decent chance Oklahoma is better on defense than Ohio State. Certainly up front. Our OL played pretty well but I'm not sure Ohio State's DL is the elite unit we're used to seeing from them.

Now, their offense also probably presents less of a challenge for our defense too. RRS could be an absolute rock fight.

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Posted
1 minute ago, gmr548 said:

I think there's a decent chance Oklahoma is better on defense than Ohio State. Certainly up front. Our OL played pretty well but I'm not sure Ohio State's DL is the elite unit we're used to seeing from them.

Now, their offense also probably presents less of a challenge for our defense too. RRS could be an absolute rock fight.

OU may have better front but their back 7 is no where close to Ohio St

Posted
4 hours ago, FORTY NINE TO ZERO said:

more open receivers than remember.

arch just can't hit them or doesn't see them 

classic milwee coached qb 

 

Arch's throwing motion is garbage with every throw.  I wonder what the paid Texas commentators are saying about it.  

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Posted
10 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

OU may have better front but their back 7 is no where close to Ohio St

I think this probably how it ends up. Caleb Downs ain't walking through that door and Ohio State's LBs are really fucking good too. 

Still, OU will likely have the personnel, schemes, and intensity to cause the Texas offense quite a few problems unless Arch's mental game improves by leaps and bounds in 41 days.

Posted
39 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Last year he was doing the same thing with that exact same route combo. Sark runs the deep post with a route underneath and trailing. Most times its a 15 yard dig. It's meant to put the defense in limbo, but teams run the flyover or cover three on us and our QBs think the post is going to be open because opponents are pattern matching, but smart defenses know how to hand routes off. The jig is up on us. Everyone knows how to handle what we do. We need to make some changes or it's going to be a long year.

If you were objectively watching him play last year none of this should be a surprise.

This response makes no sense to me. Sark calls a route tree that schemes one of two WRs to be open. The post you responded to says the underneath route was wide open, yet you blame Sark because he can’t scream in his QBs ear during the play on where he should throw the ball?

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Posted

Simple fix for Arch.  When you throw make sure your elbow is about shoulder height.  The ball should be at head height.  When he made throws in Ohio, his elbow was down by his ribs and the ball was shoulder height.  It doesn't work for my 11 year old sold and it doesn't work for the starting QB of the University of Texas.

Posted
21 minutes ago, Monahorns said:

 

Arch's throwing motion is garbage with every throw.  I wonder what the paid Texas commentators are saying about it.  

He'll be fine. Guessing he's had a lot of coaching along the way....

Posted
8 hours ago, deech said:

I think Sark's offense has had its biggest problems when defenses switch up from the pre-snap read (line up in Man - play zone or vice versa) into what they actually end up doing.  Ohio State did a lot more of that than I saw when I watched it live.

Seems like that would be true for any OC. Despite that there usually were open windows of opportunity. But they are short and need to be recognized quickly. That's the difference between an elite QB and most. Will take time for Arch to become seasoned, but if we're lucky, he'll be a quicky study.

Posted
2 hours ago, SarkAfterDark said:

This response makes no sense to me. Sark calls a route tree that schemes one of two WRs to be open. The post you responded to says the underneath route was wide open, yet you blame Sark because he can’t scream in his QBs ear during the play on where he should throw the ball?

It makes perfect sense. Go watch the play where he threw deep into double coverage. He is seeing a single safety in the middle of the field but in reality that corner is responsible for deep. He is playing up because there is a route developing short. However he is smart and as soon as he recognizes the the route combo he grabs depth and cuts off the route. Manning didn't recognize the coverage. So he thought he had him open as there is no way that safety would be able to keep up Wingo coming across his face. This has happened to us many times in the past because we dont run a lot of route combos we just do it from a myriad of formations. 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

 we dont run a lot of route combos we just do it from a myriad of formations. 

You would be surprised at how many college offenses this describes.

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Posted
12 hours ago, deech said:

 

+1 for this channel. 

Mechanics film from last year was really cool, and then watching what just happened, yeah yikes. 
OSU D did more coverage wise than I realized. 

Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, gmr548 said:

It seems to me the root issue for a lot of this is the composure and anticipation that comes with experience. He's been clunky with touch and timing in the short/intermediate game every time we've seen him at Texas though. While I obviously expect him to play better over the course of the year, if it looked like that coming out of fall camp, I don't expect it will improve enough to really stress the better defenses on the schedule, and Texas will see some more struggles in the passing game. Unless Texas is able to just dominate games with defense and running the ball there could be several stressful, ugly rock fights and a few more Ls in store.

Side note - man, Endries had a really nice game. He is faster than I realized, faster than helm and maybe even Sanders. He should have a great year.

 

My hope is the next  5 wks is the perfect set up to give Arch enough playing time to slow down the game and help him process better.  There's just no substitution for game experience.  Arch will need to play a lot better Oct 4th @Florida -- winning that game will be critical in furthering his development.  

IMG_20250901_034423.jpg.fcb6dbb85c2702d9c366980a799602ba.jpg

Edited by LTtxfan
Posted
11 hours ago, Monahorns said:

Simple fix for Arch.  When you throw make sure your elbow is about shoulder height.  The ball should be at head height.  When he made throws in Ohio, his elbow was down by his ribs and the ball was shoulder height.  It doesn't work for my 11 year old sold and it doesn't work for the starting QB of the University of Texas.

There are people who claim this is unfixable. 

Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, GabrielsHorn said:

Peyton was also a true freshmen. Arch is a redshirt sophomore who had starts the previous season. It’s not the same comparison. 

Not sure who was the dc for bama was. I’d also bet this tosu team is more talented.  

Edited by Im_smarter_then_you
Posted

He looked like a young nervy QB in his first road game against a top 5 team in an extremely hostile environment with millions watching his every move… what was worrisome was the odd mechanics from the savant QB who has been closely coached by experts since he could hold a football.

Assuming he beats up on the cupcakes coming up lets see if he has learned and put this game in his rearview once he starts again on the road in the SEC with almost everyone in attendance wanting him to fail miserably

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Posted
25 minutes ago, Slacks said:

There are people who claim this is unfixable. 


Of course this stuff is fixable. What concerns us is Arch is a third year player and not a freshman. Generational talents typically do need to retool their throwing mechanics three years into being a college QB. 

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Posted
55 minutes ago, Im_smarter_then_you said:

Not sure who was the dc for bama was. I’d also bet this tosu team is more talented.  

It was Bill “Brother” Oliver. Peyton had Tennessee driving with a chance to win at the end and threw an INT. As noted, he was a true freshman who only was starting after injuries to the 1st and 2nd string ahead of him. Bama was 12-1 that year and lost to Spurrier’s Gators in the SECCG 24-23. 

Posted
10 hours ago, Thatguy said:

It makes perfect sense. Go watch the play where he threw deep into double coverage. He is seeing a single safety in the middle of the field but in reality that corner is responsible for deep. He is playing up because there is a route developing short. However he is smart and as soon as he recognizes the the route combo he grabs depth and cuts off the route. Manning didn't recognize the coverage. So he thought he had him open as there is no way that safety would be able to keep up Wingo coming across his face. This has happened to us many times in the past because we dont run a lot of route combos we just do it from a myriad of formations. 

The Ohio st secondary was phenomenal with their communication and reads. It has been a minute since I’ve seen that type of execution from a secondary and it helps when they basically have Troy Polamalu jr out there. Georgia is maybe the only team that can replicate what the Ohio st secondary did. Arch still left some meat on the bone with a handful of plays. He just wasn’t seeing the field well at all. But Arch will be better going against this type of defense in the future especially if the run game holds up. 

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Posted
10 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

Wasn’t Peyton a true freshmen ?

Yeah, the guys above pointed that out. OB is trying to find a silver lining in Arch's performance for us to cope.

I bought it.

Frustrated Season 3 GIF by The Simpsons

Posted
17 minutes ago, Levi said:

The Ohio st secondary was phenomenal with their communication and reads. It has been a minute since I’ve seen that type of execution from a secondary and it helps when they basically have Troy Polamalu jr out there. Georgia is maybe the only team that can replicate what the Ohio st secondary did. Arch still left some meat on the bone with a handful of plays. He just wasn’t seeing the field well at all. But Arch will be better going against this type of defense in the future especially if the run game holds up. 

He missed a few open receivers over the middle. He only completed one pass between the hashes.

 

Posted
1 minute ago, DFW Horn said:

Yeah, the guys above pointed that out. OB is trying to find a silver lining in Arch's performance for us to cope.

I bought it.

Frustrated Season 3 GIF by The Simpsons

In 1997 - Peyton’s senior year - he went 8/25 126 with a pick at home against a South Carolina team that went 5-6. Tennessee needed Jamal Lewis to go off in order to win.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/boxscores/1997-11-01-tennessee.html

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Posted

Arch played nervous all game. He was not good. Sark was bad also. OSU was dialed in on the majority of calls. The ones they weren’t dialed in on, Arch missed. OL and RBs couldn’t punish light boxes.  It’s was a perfect storm ineptness. 

Posted
5 minutes ago, Codaxx said:

Arch played nervous all game. He was not good. Sark was bad also. OSU was dialed in on the majority of calls. The ones they weren’t dialed in on, Arch missed. OL and RBs couldn’t punish light boxes.  It’s was a perfect storm ineptness. 

After a rewatch and seeing some breakdowns Ohio State ran Sarks nemesis in terms of scheme with the 2 high and 3 high shell. They did amazing at disguising pre snap and shifting to spots post snap. 

Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Thatguy said:

It makes perfect sense. Go watch the play where he threw deep into double coverage. He is seeing a single safety in the middle of the field but in reality that corner is responsible for deep. He is playing up because there is a route developing short. However he is smart and as soon as he recognizes the the route combo he grabs depth and cuts off the route. Manning didn't recognize the coverage. So he thought he had him open as there is no way that safety would be able to keep up Wingo coming across his face. This has happened to us many times in the past because we dont run a lot of route combos we just do it from a myriad of formations. 

No I understood it perfectly, however you implied in your previous post the issue is Sark/play call when that wasn’t the issue as you just stated in your follow up post. Arch made the wrong read, he had the underneath route wide open. We have ran that play successfully multiple times over the past few years. One of the two routes are always open, the QB has to make the right read. And the read can’t just be made pre snap. Look deep, if the corner gets depth take the underneath. 

Edited by SarkAfterDark
Posted
8 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

After a rewatch and seeing some breakdowns Ohio State ran Sarks nemesis in terms of scheme with the 2 high and 3 high shell. They did amazing at disguising pre snap and shifting to spots post snap. 

Idk if it’s truly Sarks nemesis or if the QB needs to have plenty of live reps to actually understand how be successful against the defense. Like others have said, there were plenty of guys open and Arch didn’t see it or he made the wrong read. Feels like every QB has initially gone through this with Sark and he hasn’t found a way to better prepare them for it other than fail on game days. 

Posted
4 minutes ago, Levi said:

Idk if it’s truly Sarks nemesis or if the QB needs to have plenty of live reps to actually understand how be successful against the defense. Like others have said, there were plenty of guys open and Arch didn’t see it or he made the wrong read. Feels like every QB has initially gone through this with Sark and he hasn’t found a way to better prepare them for it other than fail on game days. 

The 3 high is to keep Sark from being able to easily take the top off. Force the offense to  sustain consistently, drive after drive.

DCs know Sark wants to run the ball then pop the top. So, as a DC, you put 3 over top with a Nickel / SS that can play like a LB and disrupt intermediate routes or support the run. Basically run a 43 that plays like a 425, which can look like Cover 1, Cover 2, or Cover 3 if the defense can communicate once the offense shifts, etc. If the DTs and LBs are stout, the defense doesn't get completely blown up by the run game. 

Patricia runs exactly this. It sounds complicated, but it's high school level defense and tOSU has elite back 7 level players that can play it easily. 

I'm petty sure it's the same thing Gary Patterson ran. It's the same thing my high school ran 40 years ago. It's really simple at the base, and becomes multiple - easily - without confusing the defense. 

Personally, I don't think Sark is patient enough letting the run game wear teams down. He has a good run game plan, which is why backs keep going to the league. Wear that front 7 out, so the game can get out of hand late. Make that middle Safety come up. Repeatedly. 

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Slacks said:

The 3 high is to keep Sark from being able to easily take the top off. Force the offense to  sustain consistently, drive after drive.

DCs know Sark wants to run the ball then pop the top. So, as a DC, you put 3 over top with a Nickel / SS that can play like a LB and disrupt intermediate routes or support the run. Basically run a 43 that plays like a 425, which can look like Cover 1, Cover 2, or Cover 3 if the defense can communicate once the offense shifts, etc. If the DTs and LBs are stout, the defense doesn't get completely blown up by the run game. 

Patricia runs exactly this. It sounds complicated, but it's high school level defense and tOSU has elite back 7 level players that can play it easily. 

I'm petty sure it's the same thing Gary Patterson ran. It's the same thing my high school ran 40 years ago. It's really simple at the base, and becomes multiple - easily - without confusing the defense. 

Personally, I don't think Sark is patient enough letting the run game wear teams down. He has a good run game plan, which is why backs keep going to the league. Wear that front 7 out, so the game can get out of hand late. Make that middle Safety come up. Repeatedly. 

I love your last paragraph. Sark also goes off spontaneity in play calling and design. It’s what makes him good and bad. Expecting him to stick to one mode of attack won’t work

Edited by Aly

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