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NBA 2023-24


shadow_operative

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Just now, Kermit said:

Aggie, I’m sorry for what I’m about to say…

The best part of the Warriors struggles is seeing Chris Paul irrelevant once again. Enjoy your championship-less season, you colossal douche. Maybe next year!

I'll allow it. Him winning his only championship riding the coattails of the true best point guard of this generation would have been satisfying, but, since that ain't happening, this is a suitable career path for Chris Paul.

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I honestly don't disagree with this opinion. The mayor and city council should have pressed a lot harder for more buy-in from the owners. It's also absolutely true that they are living a pipe-dream if they think they can build a "world-class" facility for $900M, especially when they expect it to open in 2029 (so construction beginning in maybe 2027?). I think the owners could have agreed to cover all or a certain percentage of overruns, which I expect will be at least $500M. And it's absolutely true that they ran this on the basis of emotional attachment and the perception that comes with being a "big league city." My only disagreement is that I don't blame Clay Bennett entirely (I honestly know very little about him anyway). Any owner would use the city's low self-esteem to get them to cover all that cost. I think the mayor and city council should have negotiated harder and let them know that the city and the fans would appreciate it much more if they agreed to a larger buy-in and that the city provides the team with some benefits that should be considered. Ultimately, I'm glad it passed, the intangible benefits of a major league franchise are very real, but the economics still stink. Luckily, I won't have to pay for any of it, so good for OKC.

 

The Oklahoma City Thunder successfully extort its way to a new arena

The team will contribute a paltry 5 percent of an estimated $900 million for the new facility

The Oklahoma City Thunder are getting a new arena and the team’s ownership group is contributing $50 million of the $900 million tab. The reputation of owner Clay Bennett, who was responsible for killing the Seattle Supersonics, preceded him, and 71 percent of Oklahoma City voters didn’t want to call his bluff, so they approved a 1 percent sales tax.

In a world where the Los Angeles Dodgers paid Shohei Ohtani $700 million, and LIV golf shelled out nearly $600 million for Jon Rahm, Bennett and his cronies couldn’t contribute more than $50 million to a new arena? The franchise is paying Shia Gilgeous-Alexander and Davis Bertans that much combined this season.

Bennett’s group bought the Sonics for $325 million and recent estimates by Forbes now value the team at $3 billion. The people of Oklahoma City voted to keep their team and ensure the continued increase of the world’s income disparity. There’s also $70 million in MAPS 4 funds that could go to infrastructure, or other community initiatives, but instead, will be redirected toward a sports building. Yay!

In the memorandum for the deal, OKC mayor and city council claim, “The new arena will be designed and constructed as a first-class, state-of-the-art facility with at least 750,000 square feet.”

Forgive me, but I don’t think they know how far $900 million goes when it comes to hoops’ palaces.

The Warriors spent $1.6 billion on the Chase Center. Steve Ballmer sunk $2 billion into the Clippers’ new digs that aren’t even opened yet. “First-class” and “state-of-the-art” might be apt adjectives to describe those self-funded projects, but whatever gets built in Oklahoma City won’t be on par with arenas that are actually “first-class,” and you wonder when the cycle will refresh itself.

There were a litany of community benefits in the deal that were used to sweeten the pot, including an expected provision for a workforce intermediary, and a “living wage” of $15 per hour. So let me get this right: The quid pro quo with the community was agreeing to pay those who help build the arena $15 per hour?

The current minimum wage in Oklahoma is $7.25, but a recent initiative was proposed to raise it to . . . you guessed it: $15. (I’m also of the opinion that $15 is a gross minimum wage, but I’m not an economist, and have lived in high cost-of-living areas for over a decade.)

We all know no one is more easily swayed by economic buzzwords and promises of community benefits than local politicians, so this shouldn’t be a surprise. Nor should this gem from Nick Singer, spokesman for Oklahoma Progress Now, the advocacy group that ran the opposition campaign (via the Oklahoman).

“Mayor [David] Holt negotiated a terrible deal, and the Chamber and their allies ran a fear-based inferiority campaign about OKC — and it worked. They scared voters and voters supported a bad deal, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a bad deal. It’s a 95/5 deal, and that doesn’t change just because you claim it has all of these positives, but the mayor was willing to go along with it.”

To his point, Singer said the Build Your Own Arena spent less than $10,000 on its campaign, while recent documents show the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce dropped at least $478,000 on pro-arena TV ad expenditures since November. The group Keep OKC Big League speaks directly to the inferiority complex that pro-arena forces sought to exploit, and voters happily complied.

“We told the nation, we told the world, that Oklahoma City is and shall remain a Big League City,” Mayor Holt said of the decision.

Groaaaannnnnn.

The Thunder is the only pro sports game in the state and that can create an overprotective yet rabid fanbase (looking at you, Portland and Utah). People love to see their cities represented on the national and, I guess, world stages, so it takes a pretty repugnant person to repeatedly extort that attachment.

Just for record, Clay Bennett is that repugnant person.

https://deadspin.com/oklahoma-city-thunder-new-arena-nba-1851096627

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5 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

Proof that the in season tournament has worked and is a good thing. Pacers and Bucks have a budding rivalry now. That game was intense. We're caring about the NBA in December.

 

I call BS on giving the game ball to Tshiebwe for his first points, but it's weird/shocking how much that seemed to mean to Giannis. Either way, i enjoy the intensity from both sides.

I don't think this lends any credence/creedence(tapes) to the in season tournament.  It's dumb as shit, and the Euro/bushleague court they were playing on is proof of how much "throwing shit against the wall" doesn't matter about the in-season tourney.  Now, hopefully some of the other measures will get players playing in more games, but that "tournament" is beyond pathetic.  

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21 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

I don't think this lends any credence/creedence(tapes) to the in season tournament.  It's dumb as shit, and the Euro/bushleague court they were playing on is proof of how much "throwing shit against the wall" doesn't matter about the in-season tourney.  Now, hopefully some of the other measures will get players playing in more games, but that "tournament" is beyond pathetic.  

Yeah we get it, you're too cool for the in season tournament, and only wanna talk about how dumb it is, even though it clearly worked.

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5 hours ago, Pam Cummings said:

I don't get fans. When the players show no passion we complain. But then when they get fired up over petty shit because they are the most competitive people on earth, we call them babies.

 

Figure out what you want.

this is all i’m thinking as i read this thread. i love that giannis is showing this kind of fire in december.

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1 minute ago, Vic Mackey said:
18 minutes ago, Chewbacca said:
I've never seen a superstar get treated like Jokic gets treated by the refs.  Not only do they not call fouls on him, they run him from games when he calls them out on it.

I seem to remember Dirk in the first part of his career not getting that much respect from the refs.

Jok isn't in the first part of his career, though.  He's in his prime.  He's a 2x MVP, Finals MVP and NBA Champion.  He shouldn't have to beg for obvious fouls to be called.  18 players in the NBA shoot more free throws than he does.

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nobody should be run from the game for simply cussing at a ref. doing it to the best player in the world on serbian heritage night in chicago is something out of practical jokers.

”alright let him get hacked and don’t call it (background laughing). ok, ok, now eject jokic.” 

IMG_4109.jpeg.9159c4078cffbd3b1d67ef11d260f814.jpeg

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7 hours ago, 'stache said:

I honestly don't disagree with this opinion. The mayor and city council should have pressed a lot harder for more buy-in from the owners. It's also absolutely true that they are living a pipe-dream if they think they can build a "world-class" facility for $900M, especially when they expect it to open in 2029 (so construction beginning in maybe 2027?). I think the owners could have agreed to cover all or a certain percentage of overruns, which I expect will be at least $500M. And it's absolutely true that they ran this on the basis of emotional attachment and the perception that comes with being a "big league city." My only disagreement is that I don't blame Clay Bennett entirely (I honestly know very little about him anyway). Any owner would use the city's low self-esteem to get them to cover all that cost. I think the mayor and city council should have negotiated harder and let them know that the city and the fans would appreciate it much more if they agreed to a larger buy-in and that the city provides the team with some benefits that should be considered. Ultimately, I'm glad it passed, the intangible benefits of a major league franchise are very real, but the economics still stink. Luckily, I won't have to pay for any of it, so good for OKC.

 

The Oklahoma City Thunder successfully extort its way to a new arena

The team will contribute a paltry 5 percent of an estimated $900 million for the new facility

The Oklahoma City Thunder are getting a new arena and the team’s ownership group is contributing $50 million of the $900 million tab. The reputation of owner Clay Bennett, who was responsible for killing the Seattle Supersonics, preceded him, and 71 percent of Oklahoma City voters didn’t want to call his bluff, so they approved a 1 percent sales tax.

In a world where the Los Angeles Dodgers paid Shohei Ohtani $700 million, and LIV golf shelled out nearly $600 million for Jon Rahm, Bennett and his cronies couldn’t contribute more than $50 million to a new arena? The franchise is paying Shia Gilgeous-Alexander and Davis Bertans that much combined this season.

Bennett’s group bought the Sonics for $325 million and recent estimates by Forbes now value the team at $3 billion. The people of Oklahoma City voted to keep their team and ensure the continued increase of the world’s income disparity. There’s also $70 million in MAPS 4 funds that could go to infrastructure, or other community initiatives, but instead, will be redirected toward a sports building. Yay!

In the memorandum for the deal, OKC mayor and city council claim, “The new arena will be designed and constructed as a first-class, state-of-the-art facility with at least 750,000 square feet.”

Forgive me, but I don’t think they know how far $900 million goes when it comes to hoops’ palaces.

The Warriors spent $1.6 billion on the Chase Center. Steve Ballmer sunk $2 billion into the Clippers’ new digs that aren’t even opened yet. “First-class” and “state-of-the-art” might be apt adjectives to describe those self-funded projects, but whatever gets built in Oklahoma City won’t be on par with arenas that are actually “first-class,” and you wonder when the cycle will refresh itself.

There were a litany of community benefits in the deal that were used to sweeten the pot, including an expected provision for a workforce intermediary, and a “living wage” of $15 per hour. So let me get this right: The quid pro quo with the community was agreeing to pay those who help build the arena $15 per hour?

The current minimum wage in Oklahoma is $7.25, but a recent initiative was proposed to raise it to . . . you guessed it: $15. (I’m also of the opinion that $15 is a gross minimum wage, but I’m not an economist, and have lived in high cost-of-living areas for over a decade.)

We all know no one is more easily swayed by economic buzzwords and promises of community benefits than local politicians, so this shouldn’t be a surprise. Nor should this gem from Nick Singer, spokesman for Oklahoma Progress Now, the advocacy group that ran the opposition campaign (via the Oklahoman).

“Mayor [David] Holt negotiated a terrible deal, and the Chamber and their allies ran a fear-based inferiority campaign about OKC — and it worked. They scared voters and voters supported a bad deal, but it doesn’t change the fact that it’s a bad deal. It’s a 95/5 deal, and that doesn’t change just because you claim it has all of these positives, but the mayor was willing to go along with it.”

To his point, Singer said the Build Your Own Arena spent less than $10,000 on its campaign, while recent documents show the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber of Commerce dropped at least $478,000 on pro-arena TV ad expenditures since November. The group Keep OKC Big League speaks directly to the inferiority complex that pro-arena forces sought to exploit, and voters happily complied.

“We told the nation, we told the world, that Oklahoma City is and shall remain a Big League City,” Mayor Holt said of the decision.

Groaaaannnnnn.

The Thunder is the only pro sports game in the state and that can create an overprotective yet rabid fanbase (looking at you, Portland and Utah). People love to see their cities represented on the national and, I guess, world stages, so it takes a pretty repugnant person to repeatedly extort that attachment.

Just for record, Clay Bennett is that repugnant person.

https://deadspin.com/oklahoma-city-thunder-new-arena-nba-1851096627

Three things:

1.  This arena ain't costing no $1.5B in no Okie City.  That's about what the Clippers and Golden State arenas cost.  The $900M figure even seems steep considering where it's at.

2.  I do agree that the owners and the mayor held the team hostage.  Holt was saying they could potentially sell or move the team if they didn't get the deal.  All of the ownership group are Okies to the point some of the original owners have sold and they sold to Okies.  However, to Holt's point, the group is VERY old and their heirs may not give a shit.  They bought the team for $350M and now it's worth at least $3.5B.  Even if all of them are Okies, money is money.  (There was some concern when Aubrey McClendon died.)  However, I do agree that the team wasn't moving regardless of what happened.

3.  The vote was 70/30.  That's about as lopsided as you can be in today's America.  If Biden said the sun rose in the East, 50% would disagree.  70% in agreement is remarkable.  It goes to show that the loud, vocal minority is just that.  A minority.

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58 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

draymond green, a top 1% athlete known for his versatility, defense, and high IQ: “man i ain’t got no control over what my body does.”

adam silver, steve kerr, his teammates: “yeah that tracks. we support you draymond.”

 

Even if anyone somehow bought his excuse that he was selling a foul and flailing--no one does--it would only make it worse. What would any non-psychopath do if they accidently hit someone in the head, resulting in them going directly to the ground? I don't know, maybe check on them or show some semblance of concern?

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10 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

harden has 9 FTA at half right now. 

Jok actually got 12 last night.  I think that is his season high.  We'll see if the decent whistle continues or if it goes away.  I don't think he played the 4th quarter because it was a blowout.

1 hour ago, ztejas said:

He and Dray can be roommates at Quit Being a Dickhead camp.

Old, frustrated men on the downsides of their careers acting out.  

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On 12/14/2023 at 10:09 AM, Pam Cummings said:

Proof that the in season tournament has worked and is a good thing. Pacers and Bucks have a budding rivalry now. That game was intense. We're caring about the NBA in December.

 

I call BS on giving the game ball to Tshiebwe for his first points, but it's weird/shocking how much that seemed to mean to Giannis. Either way, i enjoy the intensity from both sides.

100% this.   From the tip it was clear the Bucks were looking for get back from last week's tourney loss.   Game was intense and both teams were really getting after it.    Can't ask for more from a game a week before Christmas.

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29 minutes ago, Aqua Buddha said:

Interesting but not surprising.  He'd fit in perfectly at OKC and make them a contender, maybe this season.  They also have the assets to pulls this off.

 

I like Markkanen a lot, but I think they need more of a physical force up front instead of a 7 footer who doesn't want to venture into the paint. And even with as many assets as OKC owns, you know that Danny Ainge is going to want a ridiculous haul for a 26 year old all-star on a reasonable contract. Ainge is one of the worst GMs to try to make deals with and Presti isn't going to overpay. 

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7 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

jalen brunson with 44 pts, 9 ast, 5 reb, 5 stl with 3:50 left in the game. first knock with 40 pts, 5 ast, 5 stl since walt frazier in 1973.

and as im typing this he hits another three. 8/8 from downtown tonight, 16/22 overall. 

Too bad Dallas let him go and then traded for Kyrie instead.  What a fuck up that was. 

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