Fire Rodney Terry

[jimmyjazz 45055]

47 minutes ago, Satchel said:

Seems to me, if the Texas brain trusts were too concerned with the racial optics, they should have done their due diligence and hired the better coach in Jerome Tang. 

I understand it's hard to fight accusations of racism, but Texas at least has some cover in Charlie Strong and Shaka Smart.  

Not that the media or other pundits would consider that.

[shadow_operative 15931]

last year was jerome tang’s first year as a HC. even if we were just trying to check a box he wouldn’t have been the guy. 

[Satchel 6889]

23 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

last year was jerome tang’s first year as a HC. even if we were just trying to check a box he wouldn’t have been the guy. 

Good head coaches have to start somewhere says Scott Drew.

[Sal 1086]

20 hours ago, ztejas said:

Oh - by the fucking way - we aren't firing him until likely the end of next season at the least.

So anyone commenting "he probably doesn't get fired this season" - yeah no fucking shit. 

Y'all realize the dipshit before him went six fucking full seasons at Texas without winning a tournament game. 

Not without making a nice run - without winning a damn game. 

Terry was at the helm when we won the B12 tourney and made the EE and should have went further. 

Dude gets 2 full seasons no fucking question.

 

(That said I will be here with the rest of you demanding he resigns 12 games into his 2nd season)

And that absolutely should not be how we operate a basketball program at this university. Sunk cost -> move on. We can have actual standards with this program. This isn't a criticism of you but the administration if they're going to treat basketball differently. 

[dcar00 13861]

...

Edited January 14 by dcar00

[hobbes2702 12481]

1 hour ago, Satchel said:

Good head coaches have to start somewhere says Scott Drew.

They can start somewhere else. We should hire proven success

[MotownHorn 1714]

5 hours ago, UTEE97 said:

Perhaps it's time to consider that you might be the pussy here with your insistence on hiring RT last year 

I didn’t realize I played any role in that decision. Maybe I should ask for a raise from the athletic department 

Edited January 15 by MotownHorn

[Underdog 27966]

Coach K is tan, rested and ready.  Make him tell Texas No. 

[ChiTownDoc 20839]

7 hours ago, Underdog said:

Coach K is tan, rested and ready.  Make him tell Texas No. 

We were all UT fans last March.  Paying off. 

[Pancho 41824]

16 hours ago, Satchel said:

Seems to me, if the Texas brain trusts were too concerned with the racial optics, they should have done their due diligence and hired the better coach in Jerome Tang. 

Race had nothing to do with it. We’ve had Shaka and Charlie. Texas has quelled the race issue on coaches. We’ve even had Black female coaches. 

It wasn’t about RT being Black. It was about RT succeeding with Beard’s guys. As I mentioned during that run, even Derka would have coached us to at least a s16. That’s how talented the roster was. That doesn’t mean RT was the guy. And people like Jeff Goodman and Jon Rothstein tweeting every 30 seconds “GIVE TERRY THE JOB ALREDY” didn’t help. And not they are the main ones making fun of Texas and our record.

[HookEm 2432]

Quote

As I mentioned during that run, even Derka would have coached us to at least a s16. That’s how talented the roster was.

I keep hearing this and it is just ridiculous.  Immediately following the Beard news, Rice... RICE took us to overtime.  The team looked like crap for weeks. Everyone was complaining that our defense was falling off a cliff.  We lost at home to K-State, we barely beat OU, Tech and TCU).  The coaching staff eventually righted the ship, but it could have EASILY turned into a lost year.   

Moreover, the team wasn't THAT talented.  Not a single player from the team made an NBA roster.  Rice is G-League, Carr is playing in Israel, Timmy Allen is playing for the Memphis Hustle.  Disu was hurt half the year.  Hunter was hurt and mentally shaken up over the Beard fiasco.  Bishop was a one-dimensional player.   Mitchell (if memory serves), had the lowest number of shots ever for a National top-5 recruit. 

If you compare this lineup to the one that Shaka coached to a defeat at the hands of ACU, it isn't close.  That team had loads more talent that was criminally misused by Shaka.  So this ridiculous statement that anyone could have coached our team last year implies that everyone of us arm-chair coaches is better than a former National Coach of the Year.  Just an eye-roll terrible take.  

For me (and the UT administration) RT earned the job offer.  Right now though he isn't doing enough to keep it.  There is no way we fire him this year though.  Zero chance.  He will get two years.

[hobbes2702 12481]

16 minutes ago, HookEm said:

I keep hearing this and it is just ridiculous.  Immediately following the Beard news, Rice... RICE took us to overtime.  The team looked like crap for weeks. Everyone was complaining that our defense was falling off a cliff.  We lost at home to K-State, we barely beat OU, Tech and TCU).  The coaching staff eventually righted the ship, but it could have EASILY turned into a lost year.   

Moreover, the team wasn't THAT talented.  Not a single player from the team made an NBA roster.  Rice is G-League, Carr is playing in Israel, Timmy Allen is playing for the Memphis Hustle.  Disu was hurt half the year.  Hunter was hurt and mentally shaken up over the Beard fiasco.  Bishop was a one-dimensional player.   Mitchell (if memory serves), had the lowest number of shots ever for a National top-5 recruit. 

If you compare this lineup to the one that Shaka coached to a defeat at the hands of ACU, it isn't close.  That team had loads more talent that was criminally misused by Shaka.  So this ridiculous statement that anyone could have coached our team last year implies that everyone of us arm-chair coaches is better than a former National Coach of the Year.  Just an eye-roll terrible take.  

For me (and the UT administration) RT earned the job offer.  Right now though he isn't doing enough to keep it.  There is no way we fire him this year though.  Zero chance.  He will get two years.

Stahp. The rice game was the night of the incident so I think it’s plenty fair to toss that one out. By all reporting it wasn’t the coaching staff  that righted the ship, it was the players, specifically Allen.

That team had 5 SRs contributing regular minutes, it was an extremely versatile offensive team with the ability to score from anywhere. The defense  got worse after Beard was gone, but the team still was full of long switchable defenders. The roster was absolutely stacked and built specifically for tournament success. NBA talent and the ability to win games in college are not tied to each other, especially in the portal era.

That Shaka team had almost no depth and didn’t play defense anywhere close to last years team.

RT didn’t earn shit. You don’t earn a job as the coach as Texas by having one good year with a roster you didn’t build.

Edited January 15 by hobbes2702

[jimmyjazz 45055]

The notion that this team should just continue to build on last year's success is silly, though, but that's what some people seem to be expecting.  You don't lose Timmy Allen, Marcus Carr, Christian Bishop, Sir'Jabari Rice, and Arterio Morris with zero impact on the future.

I'm not excusing RT, and I think things are panning out as most of us expected, but this is SUCH a different team.  Losing Holland and Johnson just added to the talent issue (and those two decisions were almost wholly an indictment of RT).

[hobbes2702 12481]

8 minutes ago, jimmyjazz said:

The notion that this team should just continue to build on last year's success is silly, though, but that's what some people seem to be expecting.  You don't lose Timmy Allen, Marcus Carr, Christian Bishop, Sir'Jabari Rice, and Arterio Morris with zero impact on the future.

I'm not excusing RT, and I think things are panning out as most of us expected, but this is SUCH a different team.  Losing Holland and Johnson just added to the talent issue (and those two decisions were almost wholly an indictment of RT).

This is all true but, he built this team. He picked these players and thus far it seems like he threw it together with no actual plan for making it work.

Fuck CB but the piece he understood was getting specific players to do the things he wanted. Not necessarily the best players, but the right players to play the style of play. RT seems clueless on building that way. Abmas is the perfect example of that. 

[Horn80 5978]

2 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

This is all true but, he built this team. He picked these players and thus far it seems like he threw it together with no actual plan for making it work.

Fuck CB but the piece he understood was getting specific players to do the things he wanted. Not necessarily the best players, but the right players to play the style of play. RT seems clueless on building that way. Abmas is the perfect example of that. 

Well said.  Think you nailed it.

[shadow_operative 15931]

RT also lost his entire recruiting class, which pretty much everyone gave him a pass for, but if you’re going to bring in a two man recruiting class, maybe make sure that both guys aren’t a risk to go pro elsewhere, leaving you high and dry.

this is just one example of the dozens and dozens of small things that fans don’t think about/realize/take into account when assessing a coach. you don’t see that happening with guys who are recruiting to their own system, and you don’t see it happening to top flight coaches.

Edited January 15 by shadow_operative

[Hookem2147 20811]

4 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

RT also lost his entire recruiting class, which pretty much everyone gave him a pass for, but if you’re going to bring in a two man recruiting class, maybe make sure that both guys aren’t a risk to go pro elsewhere, leaving you high and dry.

There are plenty of things to nitpick but I don't know how this could possibly be one.

Signing day was long gone by the time he was handed the reins. Of course, he was involved in recruiting both players but he is supposed to foresee the decisions that were made in late April. It wasn't like other options that could have offered protection were available between December and April. Signing Day was over. 

And it sounds like AJ Johnson wasn't making it to campus regardless of the coach because the dude didn't attend classes.

[HookEm 2432]

12 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

RT also lost his entire recruiting class, which pretty much everyone gave him a pass for, but if you’re going to bring in a two man recruiting class, maybe make sure that both guys aren’t a risk to go pro elsewhere, leaving you high and dry.

Losing Holland was bad, but he basically replaced AJ Johnson with Chris Johnson and the two are similarly rated prospects.  Unfortunately we've gotten nothing out of Chris Johnson.

[TommysTinyTowels 779]

2 hours ago, hobbes2702 said:

This is all true but, he built this team. He picked these players and thus far it seems like he threw it together with no actual plan for making it work. Fuck CB but the piece he understood was getting specific players to do the things he wanted. Not necessarily the best players, but the right players to play the style of play. RT seems clueless on building that way. Abmas is the perfect example of that. 

Honest question: What is Coach Terry's style of play?

[UTEE97 3371]

24 minutes ago, TommysTinyTowels said:

Honest question: What is Coach Terry's style of play?

[Chad 1728]

28 minutes ago, TommysTinyTowels said:

Honest question: What is Coach Terry's style of play?

The answer is yes.

[hobbes2702 12481]

28 minutes ago, TommysTinyTowels said:

Honest question: What is Coach Terry's style of play?

Exactly.

[shadow_operative 15931]

2 hours ago, Hookem2147 said:

There are plenty of things to nitpick but I don't know how this could possibly be one.

you can’t lose your entire recruiting class, you just can’t. maybe if it happened to bill self or tom izzo you say, “eh, shit happens”, but when you’re in rodney terry's position, signing the most important class of your life as you’ve been blessed with this miracle opportunity to be the HC at a top 5 job, you can’t lose your entire class to the pros. it’s a serious failure in recruiting, and at the worst possible time. you gotta bring in the right guys who fit your system, and they have to be bought in. our guys obviously weren’t bought in (and we have no system), and it’s really hurting this team. the buck stops with RT when it comes to his recruiting classes.

Edited January 15 by shadow_operative

[dcar00 13861]

4 hours ago, HookEm said:

I keep hearing this and it is just ridiculous.  Immediately following the Beard news, Rice... RICE took us to overtime.  The team looked like crap for weeks. Everyone was complaining that our defense was falling off a cliff.  We lost at home to K-State, we barely beat OU, Tech and TCU).  The coaching staff eventually righted the ship, but it could have EASILY turned into a lost year.   

Moreover, the team wasn't THAT talented.  Not a single player from the team made an NBA roster.  Rice is G-League, Carr is playing in Israel, Timmy Allen is playing for the Memphis Hustle.  Disu was hurt half the year.  Hunter was hurt and mentally shaken up over the Beard fiasco.  Bishop was a one-dimensional player.   Mitchell (if memory serves), had the lowest number of shots ever for a National top-5 recruit. 

If you compare this lineup to the one that Shaka coached to a defeat at the hands of ACU, it isn't close.  That team had loads more talent that was criminally misused by Shaka.  So this ridiculous statement that anyone could have coached our team last year implies that everyone of us arm-chair coaches is better than a former National Coach of the Year.  Just an eye-roll terrible take.  

For me (and the UT administration) RT earned the job offer.  Right now though he isn't doing enough to keep it.  There is no way we fire him this year though.  Zero chance.  He will get two years.

lots of senior laden talent even if they weren't NBA level.

Terry might be a better coach than Shaka but his resume doesn't bear that out and I hate to say it but Shaka is a better recruiter, IMO.

Yes he righted the ship and plugged the holes but the ship still had its original engine.  the problem is Terry has a well documented history as the permanent captain and it is very meh.

[DDD Dad 14060]

21 minutes ago, shadow_operative said:

you can’t lose your entire recruiting class, you just can’t. maybe if it happened to bill self or tom izzo you say, “eh, shit happens”, but when you’re in rodney terry's position, signing the most important class of your life as you’ve been blessed with this miracle opportunity to be the HC at a top 5 job, you can’t lose your entire class to the pros. it’s a serious failure in recruiting, and at the worst possible time. you gotta bring in the right guys who fit your system, and they have to be bought in. our guys obviously weren’t bought in (and we have no system), and it’s really hurting this team. the buck stops with RT when it comes to his recruiting classes.

TIL that UT basketball is a top 5 job.

[HookEm 2432]

My point wasn't really that RT is better than Shaka or not.  My point is that both of them are on a different planet than anyone in this thread. And a whole lot of coaches could have F'ed up last year, when Terry and the other coaches on staff got us to the Elite 8.  

Just one example: Managing the egos such that possibly our best player in Rice was coming off the bench isn't an easy task.

Anyway, there is no excuse for this team. The sum isn't even close to being equal to the parts, much less greater.  As much as I thought Haith was a good hire, he also has to share a lot of the blame.  The team just isn't playing like a team.  The guards in particular are just not playing well on either end.  And we have zero guard depth, despite having seemingly talented pieces on the bench.  Horton sucks.  Weaver has promise, but is extremely raw.  Johnson never gets in the game, so I can only assume he is even worse than the others.

[shadow_operative 15931]

Just now, DDD Dad said:

TIL that UT basketball is a top 5 job.

has been for some time.

[DDD Dad 14060]

Based on all their national championships?

[Hookem2147 20811]

Perhaps we were headed towards being a top 5 job, but any school that goes 15 years between second weekend appearances in the tournament isn’t a blue blood.

The narrative was beginning to shift for some, but for many basketball remained a stopgap between football and spring football. Or football and baseball. And it would take a lot to change that, and even then a lot of casuals still just don’t enjoy the product of college basketball.

Edited January 15 by Hookem2147

[HookEm 2432]

Nobody is saying we are a blue blood.  But, if all jobs in the country suddenly came open and everyone was competing for the pool of coaches, I have no doubt that UT would be somewhere in the 4-10 range.  We have the money, facilities, talent pool and quality of life that are going to be hard to beat.  And you don't have to worry about following Coach K or Bill Self or whoever.

After Kentucky, Kansas and North Carolina, you could argue that we are in the next group.   If Texas, Indiana, UCLA and Duke are all fighting for a coach, I'm not certain that Texas doesn't get them. 

[immamac 41337]

2 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Perhaps we were headed towards being a top 5 job, but any school that goes 15 years between second weekend appearances in the tournament isn’t a blue blood.

The narrative was beginning to shift for some, but for many basketball remained a stopgap between football and spring football. Or football and baseball. And it would take a lot to change that, and even then a lot of casuals still just don’t enjoy the product of college basketball.

This is a legitimately stupid comment. Beard was the answer and he completely fucked it. Everything was trending the right way. Moody center is easily the nicest venue in the country to watch a basketball game in. The fans were stoked. Everything was ready to blow and then he had to seriously flush it all down the toilet and now the sport is stuck with a HC who deserved to get a shot but has quickly proven this is too big a job for him.
 

He's a great support guy and can make the minor adjustments through the course of a season or game but he can’t overall talent and game plan year over year like the best in the business and that’s what Texas requires for success in todays landscape. 

[Js1 82365]

Programs are ultimately judged by how you do in the tournament. Texas doesn’t have a blue blood tournament resume. We just don’t 

We aren’t a top 5 job by achievement. We have a lot of potential though. As evidenced by Beard before he fucked it all up 

Edited January 15 by Js1

[HookEm 2432]

Again, it depends on what we are talking about.  Texas is NOT a top-5 program. By any measure. 

But you could argue that we are a top-5 JOB.  When Barnes was at his peak, there were rumors he was a candidate at Kentucky.  He stayed put.  We hired Shaka when he was the hottest coach in the country.  We hired Beard from an in-state "rival" when he was a year removed from a title appearance.  And all of that was without the Moody Center, NIL or the transfer portal really rolling.

There was no way around hiring RT.  People shouldn't read into that hire that we won't be a huge player when it comes time to replace him.

[Pancho 41824]

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again—a Michigan State coach told me Texas was a top 5 job because of resources, recruiting, and no pressure to win big. 

 

Top job depends on context

[hobbes2702 12481]

Texas is a top 5 or near job in each of the big 3. Football is tradition, recruiting base, and money. Basketball is money, facilities, and recruiting base. Baseball is the gold standard of baseball programs.

I’m not sure why people have so much trouble with this. You don’t have to be a blue blood to be a top top job, especially in the modern era.

[HookEm 2432]

16 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again—a Michigan State coach told me Texas was a top 5 job because of resources, recruiting, and no pressure to win big. 

Perfect example.  Michigan State is a near blue-blood.  Two titles.  EIGHT Final Fours in the last 25 years.  One of the best players ever in Magic... Etc.

If Texas and Michigan State are fighting over a basketball coach, Texas is going to get them 90% of the time. IMO

[Hookem2147 20811]

20 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again—a Michigan State coach told me Texas was a top 5 job because of resources, recruiting, and no pressure to win big. 

 

Top job depends on context

Well fair or not, every future coach will be compared to Beard moving forward so the pressure to win big has likely changed from 2-3 years ago. Also factors in NIL, Moody Center, etc.

If a coach can’t make it out of the first weekend (or win a damn tournament game) for five seasons in a row they aren’t getting a sixth season like we may have done previously.

Edited January 15 by Hookem2147

[Red Five 40109]

8 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

Texas is a top 5 or near job in each of the big 3. Football is tradition, recruiting base, and money. Basketball is money, facilities, and recruiting base. Baseball is the gold standard of baseball programs.

I’m not sure why people have so much trouble with this. You don’t have to be a blue blood to be a top top job, especially in the modern era.

Think Florida football (whether they still are a top 5 job or not).

[HookEm 2432]

In fairness, I think the top 5 jobs are pretty fluid right now.  We don't really know which schools are going to be most committed to NIL (and have coaches who know how to exploit it).  Florida seems like it should be a top football job, but... Florida State seems more desperate to win big and may significantly out spend them.  It seemed like Aggy was about to be a major player in football when they were writing blank checks, but it hasn't panned out yet.

[Satchel 6889]

13 minutes ago, HookEm said:

In fairness, I think the top 5 jobs are pretty fluid right now.  We don't really know which schools are going to be most committed to NIL (and have coaches who know how to exploit it).  Florida seems like it should be a top football job, but... Florida State seems more desperate to win big and may significantly out spend them.  It seemed like Aggy was about to be a major player in football when they were writing blank checks, but it hasn't panned out yet.

Exactly. 

[66BUFF 2536]

52 minutes ago, Pancho said:

I’ve said before and I’ll say it again—a Michigan State coach told me Texas was a top 5 job because of resources, recruiting, and no pressure to win big. 

 

Top job depends on context

So aggy is a top 5 football job

[shadow_operative 15931]

1 hour ago, DDD Dad said:

Based on all their national championships?

no other school has our combination of resources, stadium, city, salary, the ability to win national titles, plus a complete lack of expectations or pressure. it’s why we landed the best coach available when we signed beard. and then all he did was immediately sign the no.1 transfer class in the country, end Texas’s 8 year tourney win drought, and then in his second season have Texas as a top 5 team and national title contender. so yeah, it’s a top 5-8 job, easily.

[shadow_operative 15931]

42 minutes ago, HookEm said:

Perfect example.  Michigan State is a near blue-blood.  Two titles.  EIGHT Final Fours in the last 25 years.  One of the best players ever in Magic... Etc.

If Texas and Michigan State are fighting over a basketball coach, Texas is going to get them 90% of the time. IMO

let’s see: living in michigan, having to replace the legendary tom izzo and all of the success he’s had without even putting guys in the league, or living in Austin, TX, playing at Moody, and having the fan base totally behind you so long as you regularly make the tourney with a trip to the second weekend every 3-5 years. oh and we can pay you more. you’d probably have to be a life long, born and bred big 10 guy to want to take the sparty job over the Texas job.

[closetohumping 17258]

23 hours ago, jimmyjazz said:

I understand it's hard to fight accusations of racism, but Texas at least has some cover in Charlie Strong and Shaka Smart.  

Not that the media or other pundits would consider that.

Yea but a lot of people thought we were too quick to dump Charlie.   I thought Shaka was white myself.  

[closetohumping 17258]

19 minutes ago, 66BUFF said:

So aggy is a top 5 football job

Rationalize this for me.  

[66BUFF 2536]

2 minutes ago, closetohumping said:

Rationalize this for me.  

 Texas was a top 5 job because of resources, recruiting, and no pressure to win big. 

They have the resources, facilities and the recruiting.  They want to win but I don't think there is any pressure to win. JMO

[dcar00 13861]

58 minutes ago, Hookem2147 said:

Well fair or not, every future coach will be compared to Beard moving forward so the pressure to win big has likely changed from 2-3 years ago. Also factors in NIL, Moody Center, etc.

If a coach can’t make it out of the first weekend (or win a damn tournament game) for five seasons in a row they aren’t getting a sixth season like we may have done previously.

yeah, Shaka benefitted from all the Athletic Dept/Ath Dir idiocy/chaos as well.  Charlie lost to Kansas in year 3 and it is football.

[hobbes2702 12481]

21 minutes ago, 66BUFF said:

 Texas was a top 5 job because of resources, recruiting, and no pressure to win big. 

They have the resources, facilities and the recruiting.  They want to win but I don't think there is any pressure to win. JMO

The difference is that there are way more football programs with those same things, plus tradition, than there are basketball programs.

[MotownHorn 1714]

5 hours ago, shadow_operative said:

RT also lost his entire recruiting class, which pretty much everyone gave him a pass for, but if you’re going to bring in a two man recruiting class, maybe make sure that both guys aren’t a risk to go pro elsewhere, leaving you high and dry.

this is just one example of the dozens and dozens of small things that fans don’t think about/realize/take into account when assessing a coach. you don’t see that happening with guys who are recruiting to their own system, and you don’t see it happening to top flight coaches.

The interim tag didn’t allow him to recruit at the HS level last year 

[jimmyjazz 45055]

4 minutes ago, hobbes2702 said:

The difference is that there are way more football programs with those same things, plus tradition, than there are basketball programs.

The other difference is that culturally speaking, they're really fucking weird.  A lot of coaches are "thanks, but no thanks".