Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?

[Chopper 15889]

1 hour ago, Celery Man said:

I remember when Twitter added the “don’t you want to click this fucking link and look at what it says before you retweet it?” feature 

 

Are you saying I fell for a fake? (The twitter just drives more traffic claim?)

edit: Okay I maybe see what you're saying. The fact check needed added details. And 7% is a large overstatement by elo. But we don't know about news media-specific sites (which I think is what elon was trying to refer to) although it seems very, very clear to me that the opposite of what elo claims is true: The news journalists are the ones who bring disproportionately large amounts of traffic to twitter. Twitter benefits much more than any particular news site.

 

Edited November 13, 2022 by Chopper

[Celery Man 20535]

No no no - I’m saying many Twitter users never click out of the app or read past the headline contained in the tweet(which is relevant to the amount of traffic Twitter drives to other sites). That wasn’t clear, apologies.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Celery Man

[Chopper 15889]

15 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

No no no - I’m saying many Twitter users never click out of the app or read past the headline contained in the tweet(which is relevant to the amount of traffic Twitter drives to other sites). That wasn’t clear, apologies.

Definitely agree. I've read some of the @s (in a thread) on an article I've read, and 99% of 'em clearly haven't bothered to read the article. Reddit seems about the same.

Edited November 13, 2022 by Chopper

[atomheartbevo 88750]

2 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

 

former world’s wealthiest man now world’s dumbest man?

So Elon Musk makes changes that allow a sitting US Senator’s account be spoofed and he asks Musk about it, and Musk mocks him.

Most responsible and competent CEOs would say “This shouldn’t have happened, and I will work to find out why it did, and we will make the necessary changes to prevent this from happening in the future.”

But Elon Musk just shitposts instead, because that gets him virtual high-fives from his bros, and that’s why he spent $44 billion.

Way to inspire confidence in advertisers Elon!   

He’s going to drive this company into bankruptcy and Jack and Co. will get to buy it back for cheap.

[atomheartbevo 88750]

2 hours ago, Chopper said:

And then she said, "You know when I met musk at a business function (~5 years ago) he was shockingly rude and unprofessional, and you could tell he's somewhere on the spectrum." She's a leader in her field and a consultant, and is incredibly perceptive and knowledgeable about people in business so there's that.

He has no filter and clearly can’t read a room.  Make of that what you will, but he clearly can’t put himself in the shoes of the advertisers.

It’s the holiday season and I’m willing to bet Musk has no idea what that means, and more advertisers will be moving their money to Twitch, Facebook, YouTube, Amazon, etc.

[shakahorn 1600]

On another note, my wife has been out of the country on business for 5 weeks (so we haven't talked about bs like twitter or politics), and before the game last night she was telling me about so-and-so, who we know, who was high up in twitter's legal department but who had exited to another company before the sale to elo went through, has been helping current and ex-twitter employees deal with their legal issues, and he's had a ton of emps and ex-emps reach out to him. And then she said, "You know when I met musk at a business function (~5 years ago) he was shockingly rude and unprofessional, and you could tell he's somewhere on the spectrum." She's a leader in her field and a consultant, and is incredibly perceptive and knowledgeable about people in business so there's that. I didn't know she met musk.

All that and she still had sex with him?

[Prepuce of Doom 20856]

17 minutes ago, shakahorn said:

All that and she still had sex with him?

I was going to ask whether the missus had come home with any unexplained horses lately, but I guess this works too! 

[Pig Bellmont 8637]

4 hours ago, Firemans4Horn said:

 

former world’s wealthiest man now world’s dumbest man?

Pissing off people with subpoena power and ability to levy taxes seems real dumb. 

[956 Worldwide 33957]

6 hours ago, Chopper said:

On another note, my wife has been out of the country on business for 5 weeks (so we haven't talked about bs like twitter or politics), and before the game last night she was telling me about so-and-so, who we know, who was high up in twitter's legal department but who had exited to another company before the sale to elo went through, has been helping current and ex-twitter employees deal with their legal issues, and he's had a ton of emps and ex-emps reach out to him. And then she said, "You know when I met musk at a business function (~5 years ago) he was shockingly rude and unprofessional, and you could tell he's somewhere on the spectrum." She's a leader in her field and a consultant, and is incredibly perceptive and knowledgeable about people in business so there's that. I didn't know she met musk.

So with this, I just want to say that I do think that Musk is probably on the spectrum but that’s not what’s driving his asshole behavior.  Plenty of neurodivergent peopleare aware that they can come off as different and that they don’t always sense “cues” and so work extra hard (even too hard) not to come off as a jerk or rude. You’ll notice some awkwardness but that’s different than rudeness. 
 

Being an asshole is a choice Musk and others make. The spectrum might make their rudeness different than your ordinary asshole, but it’s not an excuse or a cause foe their behavior.

[Prepuce of Doom 20856]

Also, 

 

[Chopper 15889]

13 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

Being an asshole is a choice Musk and others make. The spectrum might make their rudeness different than your ordinary asshole, but it’s not an excuse or a cause foe their behavior.

Yep yep yep, wasn't trying to imply otherwise. He's a rude, entitled imbecile who has zero emotional intelligence and doesn't know what he doesn't know, AND he's somewhere on the spectrum. That was her take.

 

[Chopper 15889]

3 hours ago, shakahorn said:

All that and she still had sex with him?

She'd be a strong No to any man so desperate for a handjob that he was offering horses as compensation. And perhaps oddly I'd probably tell her to go for it if he were offering a prestigious horse ranch in a prime location. But other than that he can go fuck his lil horsie and he seems like the type to have already tried.

 

[HenryJames 64901]

50 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Yep yep yep, wasn't trying to imply otherwise. He's a rude, entitled imbecile who has zero emotional intelligence and doesn't know what he doesn't know, AND he's somewhere on the spectrum. That was her take.

 

And that’s fair.

[atomheartbevo 88750]

Yes Elon, many organizations use it do do serious shit, buts it all about the fun

He really does not understand that there is a growing group of people who enjoy fucking with him.

 

[atomheartbevo 88750]

I will thank Musk for spending $44 billion so that we end up with the verified Ted Cruz parody account that gave us that “I entered my human wife” meme.

My wife dragged me to a church she is trying out this morning, I ran into somebody I know, and so introduced my wife as “ this is my human wife” which was followed by the guy looking at me like

[atomheartbevo 88750]

 

[Radical Larry 28368]

[GenXer 2470]

5 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

I will thank Musk for spending $44 billion so that we end up with the verified Ted Cruz parody account that gave us that “I entered my human wife” meme

I got confirmation from my human wife that no shenanigans occurred whilst I was incapacitated due to bad insulin procured from walmart.

[Chopper 15889]

Weird how spacex never purchased ads on twitter before twitter began hemorrhaging cash. Just a coincidence that they're dropping big bucks there out of the blue, I'm sure. What the fuck is fiduciary duty anymore?

 

[texasdago 7376]

[Ghost of LL 15225]

Holy derivative suit, Batman!

[F250 28380]

2 hours ago, Chopper said:

Weird how spacex never purchased ads on twitter before twitter began hemorrhaging cash. Just a coincidence that they're dropping big bucks there out of the blue, I'm sure. What the fuck is fiduciary duty anymore?

 

This is straight out of the "Bad Money" episode of Silicon Valley.

 

 

[atomheartbevo 88750]

He gave a speech I guess.

 

[atomheartbevo 88750]

Elon Musk, ladies and gentlemen, advertising genius!

 

[HenryJames 64901]

7 hours ago, Chopper said:

Weird how spacex never purchased ads on twitter before twitter began hemorrhaging cash. Just a coincidence that they're dropping big bucks there out of the blue, I'm sure. What the fuck is fiduciary duty anymore?

 

I’m going to start using their rockets for all of my rocket-related endeavors.

[NoName 16196]

On 11/12/2022 at 8:53 AM, Incredulity said:

Are you a time traveler? You have to tell us if you are.

how does one add an extra decade there? 14 years != 24 years.

  

19 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

He has no filter and clearly can’t read a room.  Make of that what you will, but he clearly can’t put himself in the shoes of the advertisers.

It’s the holiday season and I’m willing to bet Musk has no idea what that means, and more advertisers will be moving their money to Twitch, Facebook, YouTube, Amazon, etc.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by NoName

[NoName 16196]

10 hours ago, Radical Larry said:

 

 

here is an android dev @ twitter (still employeed) talking about it.

worth a read:

https://twitter.com/EricFrohnhoefer/with_replies

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by NoName

[Fudge Nuggets 18825]

Nerd fight is boring.  Back to fake company accounts raising hell.

[DigglerontheHoof 20449]

[Captainant 26861]

Is Elon talking about gRPC messages over the twitter service mesh or something? I can't make heads or tails of what he's talking about lol. Just a weird metric to key in on, I'd think he want to talk about scaling in their main service compute clusters which is where you're actually spending your money

[Francisco 2.0 31567]

19 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Is Elon talking about gRPC messages over the twitter service mesh or something? I can't make heads or tails of what he's talking about lol. Just a weird metric to key in on, I'd think he want to talk about scaling in their main service compute clusters which is where you're actually spending your money

 

I really believe it's Elon using techy sounding verbiage that the general  public will pick up on and believe that he really is a technical genius.

We all know he could take this to email or some other private way of communication to the developer in question, but instead doing it this way makes the true believers believe he's on top of things.

 

 

[NoName 16196]

38 minutes ago, Captainant said:

Is Elon talking about gRPC messages over the twitter service mesh or something? I can't make heads or tails of what he's talking about lol. Just a weird metric to key in on, I'd think he want to talk about scaling in their main service compute clusters which is where you're actually spending your money

 

17 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

I really believe it's Elon using techy sounding verbiage that the general  public will pick up on and believe that he really is a technical genius.

We all know he could take this to email or some other private way of communication to the developer in question, but instead doing it this way makes the true believers believe he's on top of things.

[Francisco 2.0 31567]

So the CEO of Tesla and SpaceX can work remotely.

What a message to send out to your servants:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Francisco 2.0

[Goredho 17154]

1 hour ago, Captainant said:

Is Elon talking about gRPC messages over the twitter service mesh or something? I can't make heads or tails of what he's talking about lol. Just a weird metric to key in on, I'd think he want to talk about scaling in their main service compute clusters which is where you're actually spending your money

I’m pretty sure he is saying the user experience is bad because of a performance degradation in distributed service dependencies behind what a user sees on the home screen.  He’s also insinuating the architecture of Twitter is over engineered and flawed, which could be true or could be a preemptive response to inevitable speculation that any Twitter performance degradation as being the result of the mass firing and not having the staff to respond to operational issues.

 The Twitter engineer responding to him is saying bullshit, that’s not how that page/system works,m.  So either Elon is speaking from ignorance or he or the engineer are lying.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Goredho

[Francisco 2.0 31567]

Long Twitter thread.  Techy oriented, if you don't know what Git is and the ramifications of what has happened

 

 

 

[texasdago 7376]

7 hours ago, atomheartbevo said:

He gave a speech I guess.

 

[atomheartbevo 88750]

[cactusflinthead 26791]

29 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Long Twitter thread.  Techy oriented, if you don't know what Git is and the ramifications of what has happened

 

 

 

[Captainant 26861]

25 minutes ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

Long Twitter thread.  Techy oriented, if you don't know what Git is and the ramifications of what has happened

 

 

 

I did/do this for a living - Elon is royally fucking up their devops pipeline and code deployment process. The end of the thread has the functional result:

 

which is to say: there's zero governance or tracability their deployments, which is the entire point of using a source control tool like git and processes like DevOps and pipeline deployments. Manual processes and developer-managed deployments are a recipe for disaster and it materially limits the amount of change that you can safely and reliably push through your environment.

And when something breaks, it'll be even harder to fix it because there's no fkn audit logs of changes or centrally managed code repository because it's read only!

[Armybrat 40464]

[NoName 16196]

2 hours ago, NoName said:

 

here is an android dev @ twitter (still employeed) talking about it.

worth a read:

https://twitter.com/EricFrohnhoefer/with_replies

 

 

 

 

 

 

i missed his actual response to Elon. who of course didn't reply.

 

former employee is this guy i guess:

Edited November 14, 2022 by NoName

[NoName 16196]

1 hour ago, Francisco 2.0 said:

 

I really believe it's Elon using techy sounding verbiage that the general  public will pick up on and believe that he really is a technical genius.

We all know he could take this to email or some other private way of communication to the developer in question, but instead doing it this way makes the true believers believe he's on top of things.

 

 

this is talking about the 1000 RPC comment

[atomheartbevo 88750]

Musk doesn’t know what he doesn’t know.

[Viking 295]

I wouldn't doubt Elon on this one. The move to microservices can be terrible if done wrong and it's so easy to get wrong. Eg a request to fetch timeline -> fetches 20 tweets -> fetches user info for each tweet one at a time -> fetches followers/followed for each user one at a time -> etc etc. All to render a few kb of data on a screen.

Elon is religious about simplicity. He's gonna hate a microservices based tech stack.

[Chopper 15889]

The engineer quoted above @GergelyOrosz has a newsletter, The Pragmatic Engineer https://blog.pragmaticengineer.com/cruel-changes-at-twitter/

 

Some of this has already been covered by the NYT, among others, but this article is ingsightful.

 

Quote

Who got laid off seemed to make little sense. Some software engineers who worked over the weekend to ship the Verified functionality on a tight deadline were let go. Another software engineer refused to do any work during the weekend and was expected to be fired, but they were not.

Seniority seemed to have played a role in who stayed. According to my sources, in Europe, only senior-and- above engineers were spared. In the US, most staff-and-above engineers were also not let go, as per my sources.

 

Quote

 

It took only one day for Twitter to start calling back some people who were laid off, but whose expertise was still needed. Tech reporter Casey Newton broke the news that Twitter started calling back people on Sunday, 6 November, barely 24 hours after dismissing them. As per his reporting, managers were told to nominate people who could help if they returned. iOS and Android engineers were high on the list.

On Monday, 7 November I talked with a software engineer who received such a call back that same day. They said they got a call from an unrecognized number Monday morning, inviting them back with a deadline of less than 10 minutes to decide. This person declined the offer.

Talking with more employees, I was told the calls became more frequent, and that most software engineers and engineering managers were saying “no” to this offer with a deadline attached. Employees warned each other to not answer calls from unknown numbers.

 

Quote

 

The first few days after layoffs were predictably quite messy. The day after the layoffs, engineering managers still did not know who on their teams was staying or going. Some people turned to query LDAP to see if the SSH keys for those usernames were still active. If not, that person was gone. If yes, they were still around.

I talked with a software engineer who was assigned to be oncall for systems they did not know about. When they tried to get more information, they found the team which built the service had been let go.

I talked with another software engineer based in Europe whose manager was let go. Their new manager, now based in San Francisco, organized a group meet and greet meeting for 1am in Europe, with more than half of their new group based in this region. Barely anyone from Europe showed up.

 

Quote

 

Predictably, resignations kept following all week. After any layoff, it’s to be expected that more people leave. In my experience, a rule of thumb is to expect about half of the amount of people let go to leave voluntarily in the months after a layoff...

So, the resignations kept flowing in. A good portion of principal engineers either handed in their notice or are in the process of doing so. Many of these people had been with Twitter for 5+ years. Some built the first versions of the systems Twitter runs on.

I am told that managers grew increasingly worried about the stream of resignations and how few people accepted offers to come back to the company.

 

Quote

 

Experienced software engineers leaving should be worrying because of the complexity of Twitter. Talking with long-time Twitter engineers, they told me the site has a complex architecture for a very good reason. It was built to allow for safe and fast tweaking of any part of Twitter, making it easy for developers to iterate.

However, Twitter was not built to make architectural changes easy, and structural changes are admittedly difficult and so need to be done with caution.

 

 

I wonder how that "long form" tweets thing that elmo announced is going. Oh.
 

Quote

 

Elon Musk announced the launch of features already built, for which the whole team was fired. On Twitter, Elon Musk went on an announcement spree, sharing how Twitter will launch longform messages and better search. I’m told this came after he saw internal demos of these features, which were almost ready to launch.

The longform messages feature is called Notes, internally, and has been in the user testing phase. On Monday, 7 November, a director asked about how feasible it would be to ship this feature to all users. The engineer who replied said that it’s hard to tell, given the team that built all of it – the backend engineer, iOS and Android engineers and engineering manager – have either been fired or quit. Again, to me it shows just how chaotically the layoffs were orchestrated.

 

At least 20 direct reports for each managing engineer! On top of coding responsibilities.
 

Quote

 

Going forward, managers are expected to have 20+ person teams and spend at least 20% of their time coding. One of the very surprising changes for managers and engineers is how the management structure is changing.

Most L6 engineering managers who were not let go, and were line managers, were instructed that they are to be individual contributors. Managers now have at least 20 reports, and are also expected to code 20% of the time.

The above changes are like nothing I’ve seen at any tech company. Most don’t have managers take on more than 12 reports because it’s hard enough to give all of them the attention required. When I was an engineering manager at Uber, I purposefully did not code and I felt close to burning out when I was managing 14-16 people directly.

 

Perhaps engineering teams are different than non-engineers but from my experience 9 direct reports is about ideal. Depending, of course, how competent your own manager is and how much time you have to spend "managing" them. I would add, most engineers are notoriously poor managers and require a lot of coaching to make them at least competent. Seems doubtful twitter will offer that type of individual development.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Chopper

[Captainant 26861]

Just now, Viking said:

I wouldn't doubt Elon on this one. The move to microservices can be terrible if done wrong and it's so easy to get wrong. Eg a request to fetch timeline -> fetches 20 tweets -> fetches user info for each tweet one at a time -> fetches followers/followed for each user one at a time -> etc etc. All to render a few kb of data on a screen.

Elon is religious about simplicity. He's gonna hate a microservices based tech stack.

It's not a move to microservices, Twitter already runs a zoo of microservices as its core tech stack. Microservices do enable simplicity, because (if they're doing it right) each service will follow a standardized architecture pattern (containerized, service mesh, CICD enabled) with all their dependencies self-contained, rather than some horribly monolithic boomertech build on .NET and Oracle.

But also - you're presupposing that elon is correct that the architecture is bad and needs overhaul. Elon doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about lol.

[F250 28380]

57 minutes ago, Captainant said:

I did/do this for a living - Elon is royally fucking up their devops pipeline and code deployment process. The end of the thread has the functional result:

 

which is to say: there's zero governance or tracability their deployments, which is the entire point of using a source control tool like git and processes like DevOps and pipeline deployments. Manual processes and developer-managed deployments are a recipe for disaster and it materially limits the amount of change that you can safely and reliably push through your environment.

And when something breaks, it'll be even harder to fix it because there's no fkn audit logs of changes or centrally managed code repository because it's read only!

Stolen from the replies.

[Chopper 15889]

8 minutes ago, Viking said:

I wouldn't doubt Elon on this one.

Elon is religious about simplicity.

Is he going to get people to re-code the entire site, with at least 50% of the engineering staff exited?

From the article linked above.

"Experienced software engineers leaving should be worrying because of the complexity of Twitter. Talking with long-time Twitter engineers, they told me the site has a complex architecture for a very good reason. It was built to allow for safe and fast tweaking of any part of Twitter, making it easy for developers to iterate.

However, Twitter was not built to make architectural changes easy, and structural changes are admittedly difficult and so need to be done with caution. Twitter has on-premise data centers and I’m told that deploying Kubernetes on top of this was already a massive undertaking thanks to all the custom infrastructure.

Twitter is unique in how configurable the infra team has made infra-level tweaks. There are multi-level feature flags used at the infra layer, which is highly unusual as feature flags usually live within the application layer."

[Chopper 15889]

Snowflake only likes "yes" men

 

[atomheartbevo 88750]

4 minutes ago, Chopper said:

Snowflake only likes "yes" men

Firing the guy publicly, after the guy was getting job offers from other companies publicly.

Fantastic way to handle the remaining employees - they either tell you what you want or hear, or you fire them.

Edited November 14, 2022 by atomheartbevo