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Elon Musk: Officially a fraud and piece of shit. Official or unofficial war criminal?


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I feel like I should start inoculating my commentary with the following two standing statements:

1.  Musk has revealed himself to be an incredible piece of shit.  I used to be ambivalent about him, but find myself more and more in the camp that he just needs to shut up and go away.

2.  The Cybertruck is a terrible hunk of shit from concept to execution. 

 

That said, here goes...

Tesla has earned a lot of scrutiny with their quality issues, but let's not pretend that they are unique in the industry:

Toyota Prius

Ford F-150

Chevy Camaro

My Volvo XC90 has been in the shop twice in two years to replace a known quality issue with the electric heating element.

 

For 2024, Consumer Reports has Tesla as the highest rated American auto manufacturer for reliability.  

Tesla gets the extra scrutiny because it has revolutionized the auto industry and people are very interested in what the company does, and people generally dislike Musk.

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33 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

For 2024, Consumer Reports has Tesla as the highest rated American auto manufacturer for reliability.  

Tesla gets the extra scrutiny because it has revolutionized the auto industry and people are very interested in what the company does, and people generally dislike Musk.

yeah man, fuck straight off with this dumb as hell take.

Tesla ranks #14 of 30 in the Consumer Reports reliability rankings. here's the top 20. if you are buying a vehicle and even kind of considering reliability as one of the things you are thinking about - you absolutely, totally and completely, do not buy a fucking Tesla nor do you buy an EV at all. a 48 out of 100 is abysmal.

image.thumb.png.b2ee441d01432d4a0a7a6c7ae769bb41.png

Tesla is closer to #30(Chrysler at a score of 18) than they are to Toyota (#1 at 79)

here is the CR info on powertrain info, which also shits on Tesla due to the powertrain:

Quote

Hybrid vehicles were found to have the best reliability among powertrain types. Consumer Reports found that, on average, hybrid vehicles have 26% fewer problems than gas vehicles. Fully-electric vehicles had 79% MORE problems, and plug-in hybrids scored the worst by far with 146% more problems than gas vehicles.

As a category, electric cars scored 44, and electric SUVs earned a score of 43 across the growing segment. Full-sized electric pickup trucks make up the least reliable category, with an average reliability score of 30.

electrified-powertrains.png

 

for what it's worth Toyota has 7 of the 10 most reliable cars in this survey, the other 3 are the BMW x5, Subaru Forester and the Acura RDX

but sure, if you want a fucking Tesla you can make sure you defend it however you want. just don't try to use something like reliability as a reason to buy one.

side note, are we acting like Buick (GM division) is not an American auto manufacturer now? they score higher than Tesla

---

how do you even identify an "American made" car now?

Quote

There's no 2023 model-year vehicle in the world that's made entirely in the U.S., according to a American Automobile Labeling Act report compiled by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Tesla claims 100% but that NHTSA list has them at anywhere between 60-75% made in the USA - which genuinely is awesome for them.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2023-03/MY2023-AALA-Alphabetical-3-31-23.pdf

other cars in the top 10 made in the USA below are the ID.4 EV (somewhere between 65-75% depending on trim level) and the Passport (at 75%),

here's the top 15 American Made cars per Cars.com: https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-467465/

image.png.5bf24b9c5b48490c4ea17d5bbac06151.png

Quote

A substantial year-over-year boost in employment at its plant in Austin, Texas — where the No. 1-ranked Model Y is produced — aided all Teslas in our workforce calculations and ultimately lifted the Model X and Model S, lagging of yesteryear, to complete the sweep.

The appearance of multiple Hondas won’t come as a surprise to followers of the index. The automaker continues to feature prominently thanks to the Odyssey, Passport, Pilot and Ridgeline — all of which are built in Alabama. Its Ohio plants are well represented in the top 15 by the Acura MDX, RDX and TLX, as well as by the Honda Accord. It’s also worth once again noting the Passport’s overall U.S. and Canadian parts content of 75% — a requirement of the original AMI and a bar many models once met. It’s a struggle for most vehicles in 2023 to hit even 60%.

That parts content mix is a key reason behind this year’s outlier at the top, the Volkswagen ID.4. After its model-year 2021 debut as a German-made vehicle, production shifted for examples sold in the U.S. to VW’s plant in Chattanooga, Tenn., replacing space on the line once held by the Passat sedan. With some (but, unlike the Passport, not all) variants of the ID.4 hitting 75% U.S. and Canadian parts content, plus powertrains credited entirely to the U.S. (more on that in a minute), the ID.4 settles comfortably at the sharp end in its first appearance.

 

image.png.024d658f3634231d413c2d825167f43e.png

for what it's worth here are the 3 highest rated Consumer Reports cars and their % American in that report above:

  • Toyota 4Runner: 100% Japan
  • Toyota Camry Hybrid: 45% USA, 30% Japan
  • Toyota Camry: 65% USA, 10% Japan

---

and yes, yet again you did it!

billionairedefended.jpg.bd1b7aed557b65155e5ccd7100dfc1eb.jpg

edit: again, this guy is acting like scoring 14th in the most reliable cars ranking is a good thing! 14th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here is how the Toyota models score!

image.thumb.png.9a76fabcb912e5e33f418a8c79894f4d.png

here are the Tesla models:

image.png.f68283bad40747fad9123d6960790e24.png

 

just for a shitty comparison, here is the buick:

image.png.6e23a7ba8f798c38dc65e1a886a7cf8a.png

here is the nissan:

image.png.80beee4eb295177a5025ad7e6b8fd557.png

Edited by NoName
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27 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

I feel like I should start inoculating my commentary with the following two standing statements:

1.  Musk has revealed himself to be an incredible piece of shit.  I used to be ambivalent about him, but find myself more and more in the camp that he just needs to shut up and go away.

2.  The Cybertruck is a terrible hunk of shit from concept to execution. 

 

That said, here goes...

Tesla has earned a lot of scrutiny with their quality issues, but let's not pretend that they are unique in the industry:

Toyota Prius

Ford F-150

Chevy Camaro

My Volvo XC90 has been in the shop twice in two years to replace a known quality issue with the electric heating element.

 

For 2024, Consumer Reports has Tesla as the highest rated American auto manufacturer for reliability.  

Tesla gets the extra scrutiny because it has revolutionized the auto industry and people are very interested in what the company does, and people generally dislike Musk.

And yet you bought Elon’s laughable prediction that your Tesla will be an income producing robotaxi hook, line and sinker. So while you profess to dislike him, you went all-in on his snake oil.

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5 minutes ago, NoName said:

yeah man, fuck straight off with this dumb as hell take.

Tesla ranks #14 in the Consumer Reports reliability rankings. here's the top 20. if you are buying a vehicle and even kind of considering reliability as one of the things you are thinking about - you absolutely, totally and completely, do not buy a fucking Tesla.

image.thumb.png.b2ee441d01432d4a0a7a6c7ae769bb41.png

here is the CR info on powertrain info:

 

for what it's worth Toyota has 7 of the 10 most reliable cars in this survey, the other 3 are the BMW x5, Subaru Forester and the Acura RDX

---

side note, are we acting like Buick (GM division) is not an American auto manufacturer now?

how do you even identify an "American made" car now?

Tesla claims 100% but that NHTSA list has them at anywhere between 60-75% - which genuinely is awesome.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2023-03/MY2023-AALA-Alphabetical-3-31-23.pdf

other cars in the top 10 below are the ID.4 EV (somewhere between 65-75% depending on trim level) and the Passport (at 75%),

here's the top 15 American Made cars per Cars.com: https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-467465/

image.png.5bf24b9c5b48490c4ea17d5bbac06151.png

image.png.024d658f3634231d413c2d825167f43e.png

and yes, yet again you did it!

  Reveal hidden contents

billionairedefended.jpg.bd1b7aed557b65155e5ccd7100dfc1eb.jpg

 

Will Ferrell Crazy Pills GIF

 

I didn't say American-made.  I said American manufacturer.  I posted a link to the latest Consumer Reports rating that has them in the middle of the pack and ahead of the big three, considerably.    People in this thread continually throw Tesla under the bus a if it is a unique outlier in build quality in reliability, and it's just not true.

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5 minutes ago, royiv said:

And yet you bought Elon’s laughable prediction that your Tesla will be an income producing robotaxi hook, line and sinker. So while you profess to dislike him, you went all-in on his snake oil.

That was only part of the calculus that went into my decision.  The main factor is that I wanted to support the development of self-driving technology and experience it firsthand.

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14 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Will Ferrell Crazy Pills GIF

 

I didn't say American-made.  I said American manufacturer.  I posted a link to the latest Consumer Reports rating that has them in the middle of the pack and ahead of the big three, considerably.    People in this thread continually throw Tesla under the bus a if it is a unique outlier in build quality in reliability, and it's just not true.

oh my god man.

if you want a reliable car 1) you don't buy an EV and 2) you don't buy from the big 3

if you want a car made in america, go re-read my info above. it goes into it.

image.thumb.png.64a4b759e47bd9aa1dfb03b5f57e73c3.png

funny enough, their spread is also shit comparatively. even though trucks score notoriously badly in these rankings

image.png.98f0a93680555992dc6dac354cb9af91.png

vs

image.png.aa1d1e498ccf66016110056ed7586613.png

vs

image.png.e0e0ba0e1beb0e12675d85dd52dc8018.png

but sure man. die on the platform, if you are buying american made cars and buying for reliability you really are dumb as hell.

 

 

Edited by NoName
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11 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

That was only part of the calculus that went into my decision.  The main factor is that I wanted to support the development of self-driving technology and experience it firsthand.

Lol. Paying to be a beta tester.

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1 minute ago, royiv said:

Lol. Paying to be a beta tester.

LOL all you want, but I have a car that drives itself.  I enjoy it.  It has had a continuously improving level of self-driving features since I purchased it over three years ago.  Latest update with v 12.3.1 is impressive.

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7 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

LOL all you want, but I have a car that drives itself.  I enjoy it.  It has had a continuously improving level of self-driving features since I purchased it over three years ago.  Latest update with v 12.3.1 is impressive.

With the added bonus of putting money in the pocket of a traitorous sack of shit that is facilitating and cheering on the downfall of American society! Way to go!

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47 minutes ago, NoName said:

just don't try to use something like reliability as a reason to buy one

But that's not what I have been doing.  I'm not touting Tesla as some model of reliability.  I've simply been saying that their quality issues are not unique in the industry.  That's it.  

47 minutes ago, NoName said:

side note, are we acting like Buick (GM division) is not an American auto manufacturer now? they score higher than Tesla

Yep.. I missed Buick ahead of Tesla there.  My bad. 

 

Doesn't change my overall point, though.  Tesla is not uniquely bad with quality issues, despite the fact that they have only been manufacturing vehicles at large scale for less than a decade.

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6 minutes ago, royiv said:

With the added bonus of putting money in the pocket of a traitorous sack of shit that is facilitating and cheering on the downfall of American society! Way to go!

Fuck outta here with this.  A lot has changed in the last three and a half years since I bought it.

go fuck yourself middle finger GIF by IFC

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7 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Fuck outta here with this.  A lot has changed in the last three and a half years since I bought it.

go fuck yourself middle finger GIF by IFC

Cool. Keep enjoying driving your MAGA hat on wheels while sniffing your own farts and stanning for Tesla and Elon. 

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1 hour ago, Guadaloopy said:

I feel like I should start inoculating my commentary with the following two standing statements:

1.  Musk has revealed himself to be an incredible piece of shit.  I used to be ambivalent about him, but find myself more and more in the camp that he just needs to shut up and go away.

2.  The Cybertruck is a terrible hunk of shit from concept to execution. 

 

That said, here goes...

Tesla has earned a lot of scrutiny with their quality issues, but let's not pretend that they are unique in the industry:

Toyota Prius

Ford F-150

Chevy Camaro

My Volvo XC90 has been in the shop twice in two years to replace a known quality issue with the electric heating element.

 

For 2024, Consumer Reports has Tesla as the highest rated American auto manufacturer for reliability.  

Tesla gets the extra scrutiny because it has revolutionized the auto industry and people are very interested in what the company does, and people generally dislike Musk.

 

You know what you should do? Heed the advice "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt." You're the one defending Tesla and Elon here, not anyone else. You could have kept quiet about this and been fine - instead you are getting rightly flamed because:

1. You started this. No one called you out, no one said for you to say anything about Tesla.

2. The "other cars suck, so the Tesla can suck too" isn't some sort of great defense.

3. When you are factually wrong (the Consumer Reports thing), you are going to take it on the chin.

 

My advice to you is sit down junior and leave this thread for the big boys.

 

 

 

billionaire defended.jpg 

Edited by Captain Ron
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32 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

 

But that's not what I have been doing.  I'm not touting Tesla as some model of reliability.  I've simply been saying that their quality issues are not unique in the industry.  That's it.  

Yep.. I missed Buick ahead of Tesla there.  My bad. 

 

Doesn't change my overall point, though.  Tesla is not uniquely bad with quality issues, despite the fact that they have only been manufacturing vehicles at large scale for less than a decade.

0*E1eNateTiDThGcYI.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

0*E1eNateTiDThGcYI.jpg

 

1 hour ago, Guadaloopy said:

Tesla has earned a lot of scrutiny with their quality issues, but let's not pretend that they are unique in the industry:

My first post today.  NoName fits your meme better.

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1 hour ago, NoName said:

yeah man, fuck straight off with this dumb as hell take.

Tesla ranks #14 of 30 in the Consumer Reports reliability rankings. here's the top 20. if you are buying a vehicle and even kind of considering reliability as one of the things you are thinking about - you absolutely, totally and completely, do not buy a fucking Tesla nor do you buy an EV at all. a 48 out of 100 is abysmal.

image.thumb.png.b2ee441d01432d4a0a7a6c7ae769bb41.png

Tesla is closer to #30(Chrysler at a score of 18) than they are to Toyota (#1 at 79)

here is the CR info on powertrain info, which also shits on Tesla due to the powertrain:

for what it's worth Toyota has 7 of the 10 most reliable cars in this survey, the other 3 are the BMW x5, Subaru Forester and the Acura RDX

but sure, if you want a fucking Tesla you can make sure you defend it however you want. just don't try to use something like reliability as a reason to buy one.

side note, are we acting like Buick (GM division) is not an American auto manufacturer now? they score higher than Tesla

---

how do you even identify an "American made" car now?

Tesla claims 100% but that NHTSA list has them at anywhere between 60-75% made in the USA - which genuinely is awesome for them.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2023-03/MY2023-AALA-Alphabetical-3-31-23.pdf

other cars in the top 10 made in the USA below are the ID.4 EV (somewhere between 65-75% depending on trim level) and the Passport (at 75%),

here's the top 15 American Made cars per Cars.com: https://www.cars.com/articles/2023-cars-com-american-made-index-which-cars-are-the-most-american-467465/

image.png.5bf24b9c5b48490c4ea17d5bbac06151.png

image.png.024d658f3634231d413c2d825167f43e.png

for what it's worth here are the 3 highest rated Consumer Reports cars and their % American in that report above:

  • Toyota 4Runner: 100% Japan
  • Toyota Camry Hybrid: 45% USA, 30% Japan
  • Toyota Camry: 65% USA, 10% Japan

---

and yes, yet again you did it!

billionairedefended.jpg.bd1b7aed557b65155e5ccd7100dfc1eb.jpg

edit: again, this guy is acting like scoring 14th in the most reliable cars ranking is a good thing! 14th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

here is how the Toyota models score!

image.thumb.png.9a76fabcb912e5e33f418a8c79894f4d.png

here are the Tesla models:

image.png.f68283bad40747fad9123d6960790e24.png

 

just for a shitty comparison, here is the buick:

image.png.6e23a7ba8f798c38dc65e1a886a7cf8a.png

here is the nissan:

image.png.80beee4eb295177a5025ad7e6b8fd557.png

I couldn’t gaf about Tesla, especially their cars, but that list you provided has all sorts of funky shit in it. Mini and X5’s as some of the most reliable vehicles?  Subaru? Did they stop the test at 40k miles before the timing belts explode?  There’s a millions reasons to point and laugh at Tesla, shouldn’t need paid programming from Toyota to accomplish it. 

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3 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Tesla is the number two selling vehicle brand in CA, which is hardly MAGA country.   But keep up with this and someday fetch may actually happen for you.

Actually, it's hardcore MAGA country.  May have more MAGA voters there than most any other state.  Sure, they're slightly outnumbered by non pieces of shit (well, at least they're not pieces of shit for THAT reason....I mean, some of 'em are fucking Dodgers fans, so definitely pieces of shit), but there are still many millions of them.

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19 minutes ago, Captain Ron said:

3. When you are factually wrong (the Consumer Reports thing), you are going to take it on the chin.

 

My advice to you is sit down junior and leave this thread for the big boys.

I admitted that I missed Buick and their 170K vehicles ahead of Tesla on the reliability ranking.  Imagine that, someone on the Surl admitting that they made a mistake.

But it doesn't change my point AT ALL.  So they were second on a list of twelve American manufacturers in that particular ranking.   

Reading this echo chamber circle jerk thread would leave you with the impression that Tesla is bottom of the barrel for quality and reliability.  And it's just not factual.

  

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6 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Actually, it's hardcore MAGA country.  May have more MAGA voters there than most any other state.  Sure, they're slightly outnumbered by non pieces of shit (well, at least they're not pieces of shit for THAT reason....I mean, some of 'em are fucking Dodgers fans, so definitely pieces of shit), but there are still many millions of them.

Go poll every Tesla driver in CA and see how they skew politically.  It sure as shit doesn't match this dumbass internet characterization you have all cooked up.

Biden carried California in 2020 with 63.5% of the vote vs 34.3% for Trump. 

Edited by Guadaloopy
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5 minutes ago, Guadaloopy said:

Go poll every Tesla driver in CA and see how they skew politically.  It sure as shit doesn't match this dumbass internet characterization you have all cooked up.

Biden carried California in 2020 with 63.5% of the vote vs 34.3% for Trump. 

Oh, I am aware of the demographics of past Tesla buyers -- I live in Austin, man.  I see plenty of them on the road, 90% of which were purchased before Elon totally went MAGA/Qanon piece of shit.  And the drivers are not MAGAts, or at least mostly don't fit the part.

But if you buy a Tesla today?  Yeah....you know what you're supporting.  And if you own one from before, the "I bought this before I knew he was an asshole" bumper sticker seems like a good idea.

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Define reliability? My car was rated as one of the lower models in terms of its class on reliability. However there were different engine sizes and features, driving conditions and maintenance that can come into play.

Being in Houston, the suspension gets a workout here that say cars in other parts of the country do not get.

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5 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Define reliability? My car was rated as one of the lower models in terms of its class on reliability. However there were different engine sizes and features, driving conditions and maintenance that can come into play.

Being in Houston, the suspension gets a workout here that say cars in other parts of the country do not get.

Dude, burdening your suspension with giant-ass swangers was YOUR choice....

maxresdefault.jpg

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9 minutes ago, Nivek said:

Define reliability? My car was rated as one of the lower models in terms of its class on reliability. However there were different engine sizes and features, driving conditions and maintenance that can come into play.

Being in Houston, the suspension gets a workout here that say cars in other parts of the country do not get.

Reliability is really loaded too. Because a single car can be reliable, but a car line can be crap. On the flip side, a whole line can be reliable, but an individual car can have major problems as an outlier.

Most people make the mistake of taking their experience as reliability when it really isn't.

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18 minutes ago, chainsaw said:

Excellent use of a dying company's funds

What are you talking about? This is clearly a 1st Amend ... Amendm..

Funny GIF

 

 

In other news, Tesla's Q1 numbers sounds like they are going to be not great. 

WSJ has an article up here - https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/teslas-terrible-quarter-catches-some-analysts-asleep-at-the-wheel-a76cb902

MSN too - https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/news/tesla-q1-deliveries-preview-analysts-cut-targets-nightmare-quarter-for-tesla/ar-BB1kLaPQ

 

EDIT - and Tesla has started running ads again - https://www.wsj.com/articles/tesla-dives-into-advertising-after-years-of-resistance-87810a4b

Edited by Captain Ron
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On the reliability issue, it's important to distinguish between issues that don't matter hugely and are easily fixed, like infotainment glitches, and serious issues, like steering wheels falling off or murderous and falsely-advertised full-self driving systems.

Point being, IIRC Consumer Reports does not distinguish based on severity (infotainment vs. drivetrain, for example) when measuring incidents/reliability. May be JD power, though?

Edited by choripan
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12 hours ago, HenryJames said:

image.thumb.png.8b1bf02e1e993f41054716bbf104cce1.png

Did not conform to the prevailing political orthodoxy?

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.052d6a65327504158fc2e24649dceeb3.png

 

So I was doing some reading on this case she brought, but he’s “paying for.” A few things. 

1. she is suing under Missouri law that protects people from being fired for political speech. (Missouri Statute § 130.028) Good luck with that?

2. This post in the lawsuit is referred to as "the Restroom Post"

The document also describes but does not quote another, AKA "the Refugee Post":

Quote

On October 30, 2023, Happe had a Google Meet call with Block’s HR department. Block HR claimed to have received reports of things Happe had said on X. Block HR showed Happe screenshots of the Refugee Post and the Restroom Post.

I want to know what that one said. 

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11 hours ago, Captain Ron said:

image.thumb.png.285c601cb8904c7e7cbf43599b7a8075.png

 I saw a Cybertruck done up in the black wrap-around wrapper stuff out by Brenham, and it made the Cybertruck look even shittier. Wrapping your whole vehicle in truck bed-liner…well, you already made one bad decision buying the Tesla, so might as well go all in.

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31 minutes ago, atomheartbevo said:

 I saw a Cybertruck done up in the black wrap-around wrapper stuff out by Brenham, and it made the Cybertruck look even shittier. Wrapping your whole vehicle in truck bed-liner…well, you already made one bad decision buying the Tesla, so might as well go all in.

There is nothing that can make that piece of shit look better.  We saw one rolling through Pebble Beach and everyone was pointing and laughing at it.  It looks like a kit car to be honest.

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