Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted
10 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Suspicious Futurama GIF

Wage-growth-vs-inflation-U.S.-2024.png

 

atlanta-fed-wage-growth-tracker.png

 

This is simply the wage growth side of things. Add in that most middle class people absolutely are in equities, it's not even close. Hell, even a lot of working class are in equities with 401ks these days.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I just spent 2.5 days in Vegas and I can tell you now, I completely understand how this happened. We are very insulated in Austin by an intelligent, plugged in, and well-meaning population. This was…not that. 

Austin:  Rogan, Jones, Elon, Hot Wheels, Paxton, etc… 

  • Rage+1 2
Posted
1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

Funny thing is, I don't think there were many in Springfield actually complaining about anything.

 

I think their complaint was how the influx of Haitians that are using social services has overwhelmed the local social services, and they’d like help in that area. 

Posted
22 hours ago, gmr548 said:

Jesus fucking Christ.

I'd say this guy's professional career just ended but he'll actually get a raise in the right wing grifting sphere. Kyle Rittenhouse style.

 

just got accepted into am

Posted
Wage-growth-vs-inflation-U.S.-2024.png
 
atlanta-fed-wage-growth-tracker.png
 
This is simply the wage growth side of things. Add in that most middle class people absolutely are in equities, it's not even close. Hell, even a lot of working class are in equities with 401ks these days.

The thing is, your first chart shows exactly what Bozo and the feelings of working Americans reflect.
We were used to wages slightly outpacing inflation….doing just a little better over time, steadily. Then…inflation outpaced wages, for a good slice of time. In recent months, wages again outpaced inflation, but people haven’t regained all the ground they lost and, more importantly, they don’t FEEL like they regained that ground. The traumatic feeling of falling behind is still a fresh feeling.
Objectively, so we see that there was an economic phenomenon and cycle that happened globally, and the US weathered it better than almost everyone else, and is largely in the recovery/recovered period? Sure. But statistics aren’t feelings. Feelings are what people have, and people are the thing that votes.
Truly, I don’t know if any Dem candidate could have done anything to win, climbing uphill against those feelings. But…they could have done better.
And yes…they need to figure out how to run negative campaigns, because people respond to demonization and fear 1000X better than they respond to boring policy and facts. We have a booming and evil oligarch class asserting outsized influence, ripe target right there.
  • Hook 'Em 4
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, G650 said:

Fixed income maybe, the middle class no way.

 

1 hour ago, G650 said:

Wage-growth-vs-inflation-U.S.-2024.png

 

atlanta-fed-wage-growth-tracker.png

 

This is simply the wage growth side of things. Add in that most middle class people absolutely are in equities, it's not even close. Hell, even a lot of working class are in equities with 401ks these days.

Oh, I see. The way they feel about their own lives is wrong. You’re saying they are too stupid to understand why their wage and 401K growth makes up for the higher price of food and home prices accelerating away from them. Sure, the entire middle third of the adult population have investments and savings totaling less than $50k, but look at that tiny pile grow! Sure, groceries went up by like 20%, but incomes went up by almost half that much, and they have iPhones, what’s their problem?
Great argument, you convinced me. 

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

 

Oh, I see. The way they feel about their own lives is wrong. You’re saying they are too stupid to understand why their wage and 401K growth makes up for the higher price of food and home prices accelerating away from them. Sure, the entire middle third of the adult population have investments and savings totaling less than $50k, but look at that tiny pile grow! Sure, groceries went up by like 20%, but incomes went up by almost half that much, and they have iPhones, what’s their problem?
Great argument, you convinced me. 

Yes, that is 100% what I'm saying.

 

Again, I'm happy for the Democrats to lie to them for votes. Because better working class policies will result. But I'm not pretend Chad and Tynnyfer Middle Class' fee fees remotely reflect reality because they don't.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
52 minutes ago, G650 said:

Yes, that is 100% what I'm saying.

 

Again, I'm happy for the Democrats to lie to them for votes. Because better working class policies will result. But I'm not pretend Chad and Tynnyfer Middle Class' fee fees remotely reflect reality because they don't.

image.png.6148f3dafda3c0bd6ad417e0133b6a83.png

  • Drool 1
Posted
4 hours ago, David Dennison said:

Name one thing Donald Trump will do for those common folk.

 

He'll do what he did last time -- line his pockets, play golf, keep oil at $50/bbl, and cut taxes for rich people while drastically increasing spending!

  • Like 2
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
6 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

I just spent 2.5 days in Vegas and I can tell you now, I completely understand how this happened. We are very insulated in Austin by an intelligent, plugged in, and well-meaning population. This was…not that. 

We were on the coast this weekend - small town south/coastal Texas. No way dems are ever winning these areas, not going to happen.

Posted
40 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

image.png.6148f3dafda3c0bd6ad417e0133b6a83.png

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I'm openly antagnostic to the middle class, have been for a long time. They have enabled the rise of people like Elon Musk while keeping poor Americans poorer.

 

Interestingly enough when you use descriptives of who you are thinking of in terms of these voting blocks, you never describe middle class people.

  • Hook 'Em 4
  • Like 1
Posted
8 minutes ago, G650 said:

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

I'm openly antagnostic to the middle class, have been for a long time. They have enabled the rise of people like Elon Musk while keeping poor Americans poorer.

 

Interestingly enough when you use descriptives of who you are thinking of in terms of these voting blocks, you never describe middle class people.

I don’t? I think I use “working class” and “middle class” pretty consistently when I’m talking about what Democrats should be doing or don’t do. I certainly should, I’m a partisan of the middle class, despite no longer belonging to it financially.
Democrats walking away from the middle 70% of the the population, both in terms of policy focus and linguistically, is the main reason I stopped identifying with the party and left it altogether in 2016, since Hillary Clinton was the end-stage manifestation of that abandonment.

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
4 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I don’t? I think I use “working class” and “middle class” pretty consistently when I’m talking about what Democrats should be doing or don’t do. I certainly should, I’m a partisan of the middle class, despite no longer belonging to it financially.
Democrats walking away from the middle 70% of the the population, both in terms of policy focus and linguistically, is the main reason I stopped identifying with the party and left it altogether in 2016, since Hillary Clinton was the end-stage manifestation of that abandonment.

I mean, I will admit i don't see every one of your posts, but from what I have seen you are consistently describing working class people and pretty much never middle class people.

Posted
32 minutes ago, G650 said:

I'm openly antagnostic to the middle class, have been for a long time. They have enabled the rise of people like Elon Musk while keeping poor Americans poorer.

In your estimation, what percentage of the middle class is working class?

Posted
I don’t? I think I use “working class” and “middle class” pretty consistently when I’m talking about what Democrats should be doing or don’t do. I certainly should, I’m a partisan of the middle class, despite no longer belonging to it financially.
Democrats walking away from the middle 70% of the the population, both in terms of policy focus and linguistically, is the main reason I stopped identifying with the party and left it altogether in 2016, since Hillary Clinton was the end-stage manifestation of that abandonment.

You stated that the working class have housing prices running away from them. This is yet another example of them fighting against their own interests. There are democrats that say housing is a right and want to dismantle large conglomerates from owning massive amounts of rentals OR just empty houses. Float this past a group of working class or middle class folks and it’s turned into the government won’t let people invest in real estate.

How do you suggest the democrat party attract those people? I don’t think it’s possible.
  • Hook 'Em 3
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, G650 said:

I mean, I will admit i don't see every one of your posts, but from what I have seen you are consistently describing working class people and pretty much never middle class people.

I think the disconnect here is that when I talk about the *middle class*, I’m literally talking about the roughly half of the population that makes from 2/3 to double the median income (ie from about $60k-$160k which is clustered in middle of that range. There’s some overlap, but in general I think of working class people as non-management people who are lower or lower-middle class, ie middle but making less than median income. 
 

What I do not mean is high income people who feel economic strain because their discretionary income does not provide what they think it should. That strain is real and flows from some of the same structural problems in the economy that hurt the middle class, but  they aren’t middle class people. 
 

What do you think is a middle class person?

Edited by Bozo_Casanova
  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I think the disconnect here is that when I talk about the *middle*, I’m literally talking about the  distribution from 2/3 to double the median income (ie from about $60k-$160k which is clustered in middle of that range. There’s some overlap, but in general I think of working class people as non-management people who are lower or lower-middle class, ie middle but making less than median income. 

The middle class sounds just awful.

Posted
2 minutes ago, Goofyboy said:


You stated that the working class have housing prices running away from them. This is yet another example of them fighting against their own interests. There are democrats that say housing is a right and want to dismantle large conglomerates from owning massive amounts of rentals OR just empty houses. Float this past a group of working class or middle class folks and it’s turned into the government won’t let people invest in real estate.

How do you suggest the democrat party attract those people? I don’t think it’s possible.

Well not for nothing,  those aren’t solutions to anything and wouldn’t solve any of the real problems in our housing market any more than mass deportations would. Our housing crisis is a product of local zoning, cheap debt, and income inequality, in that order. 
But more importantly, the Democratic Party is all over the place on housing. At the local level they are often the worst offenders when it comes to protecting housing shortages and pulling up ladders of opportunity. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well not for nothing,  those aren’t solutions to anything and wouldn’t solve any of the real problems in our housing market any more than mass deportations would. Our housing crisis is a product of local zoning, cheap debt, and income inequality, in that order. 
But more importantly, the Democratic Party is all over the place on housing. At the local level they are often the worst offenders when it comes to protecting housing shortages and pulling up ladders of opportunity. 

This. This. This. So much this.

NIMBYism among upper income Democrats is shameful.

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Like 1
  • Rage+1 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
3 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

In your estimation, what percentage of the middle class is working class?

 

0%. Its not what "I think", it's what it is.

 

1 minute ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

I think the disconnect here is that when I talk about the *middle*, I’m literally talking about the  distribution from 2/3 to double the median income (ie from about $60k-$160k which is clustered in middle of that range. There’s some overlap, but in general I think of working class people as non-management people who are lower or lower-middle class, ie middle but making less than median income. 
 

What I do not mean is high income people who feel economic strain because their discretionary income does not provide what they think it should. That strain is real and flows from some of the same structural problems in the economy that hurt the middle class, but  they aren’t middle class people. 
 

What do you think is a middle class person?

 

Middle income =/= middle class. I know there is always the classic joke every American thinks they are middle class, but that isn't the case.

 

Theres arguments to be had around the edges, similar to the generational years (nobody reading this start tlying about if Kamala is GenX goddammit), but by and large there are very clear distinctions. Class in the US is unambiguously an offshoot and close cousin of the Anglo conception of class. The only real difference is that Americans have always allowed for class mobility, whereas that was much more difficult in the UK. Class is the confluence of culture and money, exclusive of neither.

 

White collar jobs are middle class jobs by definition. Accountancy, small retail store owners, engineers, middle management, basically the working professionals. Everything from taste in media, food, diction and so forth outline this.

The working class obviously has their own taste, culture etc. These are people with name patches on their shirts. Also coincidentally who I spend most of my days with. But they are not middle class I can promise you. Their conception of basically everything is diametrically opposed to the middle class.

The upper class is almost non existent in this country at this point.  There are small vestiges left with certain people, but it's basically inconsequential. Almost every rich person you meet is dreadfully middle class.

So if you want to use class and income interchangeably that's fine but it's not accurate and there ends up being a lot of talking over each other. Theres a lot more that can be said about class, and I have actually studied this more than I'd like to admit, but it would just be a massive and unproductive diversion.

 

I would also say anyone making 160k who bitches can lick my nuts, but that is a whole different conversation

14 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Well not for nothing,  those aren’t solutions to anything and wouldn’t solve any of the real problems in our housing market any more than mass deportations would. Our housing crisis is a product of local zoning, cheap debt, and income inequality, in that order. 
But more importantly, the Democratic Party is all over the place on housing. At the local level they are often the worst offenders when it comes to protecting housing shortages and pulling up ladders of opportunity. 

All true

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted
This. This. This. So much this.
NIMBYism among upper income Democrats is shameful.

I came to Austin 30+ years ago from Houston. Where I grew up solidly middle class oil patch (went to school with some upper class, though.)
Austin was my first exposure to real-deal political liberalism. I don’t mean Texas democrat liberal, I mean Austin liberal. It was eye-opening, and not in any good way. Lots of performative preachy bullshit. Volvos with inspiring bumper stickers. Which were parked in front of nice west Austin homes, after the driver had just been at a neighborhood association meeting shouting about how those new apartments shouldn’t be built because they would “destroy the character of the community.” The hypocrisy was blatant enough that a naive Houston kid saw it clear as day.
A friend’s dad was IBEW here. They tried for YEARS to build a job training center. Austin’s idiotic salamander-saving building restrictions made it a hard no. They eventually gave up.
Out-of-touch liberals preaching on one hand and making life harder for real people on the other is a long-time problem.
  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Rage+1 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
47 minutes ago, G650 said:

Middle income =/= middle class. I know there is always the classic joke every American thinks they are middle class, but that isn't the case.

 

Theres arguments to be had around the edges, similar to the generational years (nobody reading this start tlying about if Kamala is GenX goddammit), but by and large there are very clear distinctions. Class in the US is unambiguously an offshoot and close cousin of the Anglo conception of class. The only real difference is that Americans have always allowed for class mobility, whereas that was much more difficult in the UK. Class is the confluence of culture and money, exclusive of neither.

 

White collar jobs are middle class jobs by definition. Accountancy, small retail store owners, engineers, middle management, basically the working professionals. Everything from taste in media, food, diction and so forth outline this.

Very interesting. I’ll tell Pew. They’ve been doing their research wrong. 

Posted
11 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

Working or middle class?

Cops

Firefighters

EMTs

Teachers

Blue collar union members


Middle

Middle

Middle

Middle 

Depends on industry, job category, level of skill, etc. 

  • Hook 'Em 1
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:


Middle

Middle

Middle

Middle 

Depends on industry, job category, level of skill, etc. 

But also working class. There is plenty of overlap in this country and those are just a few of the occupations that qualify.

Edited by David Dennison
  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:


I came to Austin 30+ years ago from Houston. Where I grew up solidly middle class oil patch (went to school with some upper class, though.)
Austin was my first exposure to real-deal political liberalism. I don’t mean Texas democrat liberal, I mean Austin liberal. It was eye-opening, and not in any good way. Lots of performative preachy bullshit. Volvos with inspiring bumper stickers. Which were parked in front of nice west Austin homes, after the driver had just been at a neighborhood association meeting shouting about how those new apartments shouldn’t be built because they would “destroy the character of the community.” The hypocrisy was blatant enough that a naive Houston kid saw it clear as day.
A friend’s dad was IBEW here. They tried for YEARS to build a job training center. Austin’s idiotic salamander-saving building restrictions made it a hard no. They eventually gave up.
Out-of-touch liberals preaching on one hand and making life harder for real people on the other is a long-time problem.

Yeah, NIMBY is usually just bad policy. Nearby, in the reddest part of ultra-red Montgomery county, NIMBY means roads and schools.

It’s amazing watching Magnolia ISD get flooded with students while they vote down bonds to give them a place to be during the day.

Fortunately I’m in CISD, and we just elected board members committed to banning books. Stupid, but I’ll know which books to get my girls.

I never get to “both sides” things, so there it is. 

  • Like 2
Posted

I was thinking earlier about how in Trump's first term, he wanted military parades with tanks on the streets of DC. But the people around him told him we don't do that in America. Well, guess what. The people around him this time will respond with "Great idea!".

We'll probably also see peaceful protesters shot at some point. Maybe we'll nuke a hurricane. 

  • Drool 1
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
3 hours ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Very interesting. I’ll tell Pew. They’ve been doing their research wrong. 

I mean you call them whatever you want, I'm not the lord and ruler of your language or amything, but this stuff is pretty well established. I'm just giving you the overview of class division, which isn't the same as income division.

There's a reason it's a running joke that every American thinks they are middle class.

Posted
13 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

So if you did something when he was not president he is still pissed? So following a lawful order is now wrong?

Damn.

This is simply an extension of his refusal to accept election results. Anyone who did and worked for Biden is a traitor.  And it’s also an important step in seizing control of the power institutions.

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Rage+1 4
  • Fuck Around and Find Out 1
Posted
15 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Wait wut?  The withdrawal that he blamed on Biden?  

Lots blame it on Biden. As if Doha accords and that little thing like wanting to invite the Taliban to camp david never happened.

  • Hook 'Em 1
  • Rage+1 3
Posted

The military not being beholden to the President might actually come to a head. Leaders of the military might stand up to Trump at some point. They swear their oath to the constitution. Start bullshit treason stuff against military folks and that might not go well.

This is going to be a shit show.

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, Biff Tannen said:

Wait wut?  The withdrawal that he blamed on Biden?  

It's a pretext to fuck over Milley.  

I realize the legal system may be precarious at this point, but I'm hoping it holds long enough to keep these fuckers at bay.

And, there's that damn pesky definition of treason coming to the rescue again.

Also UCMJ does not contain a crime of treason.  It has mutiny for rebellion against military authority and sedition for civil authority.  Neither of which would apply here.

Edited by TwiceHorn
  • Hook 'Em 3
  • Like 3
  • Rage+1 1
Posted
20 minutes ago, InkaUtexas said:

Lots blame it on Biden. As if Doha accords and that little thing like wanting to invite the Taliban to camp david never happened.

 

5D chess 

  • Hook 'Em 2
Posted
“May?”

Yeah…as someone who has had to materially adjust his entire professional approach to account for “I know what the law says, but they’re gonna do whatever Newsmax tells em to”….sing it, brother.
  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Rage+1 2
Posted
5 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

“May?”

It’s still sending poor non-violent offenders to prison for long stretches, and doing nothing* to set them on a better path after release so it’s still working as intended. 

*Well, they do wring as much money out of they families through privatized phone services and commissary sales of luxuries like soap and toothbrushes, so they are learning that corporations are their masters and that trying to better themselves is likely futile, so they do get a better real world education than their crumbling public school could manage. 

  • Hook 'Em 2
  • Rage+1 2
Posted

I'm all in at this point. MAGA baby. Tax cuts for the rich! Let oil companies pollute all they want! Deport all the brown people! Let's put Jesus back in the schools! Total power for the executive branch!

Posted
1 minute ago, softlynow said:

It’s still sending poor non-violent offenders to prison for long stretches, and doing nothing* to set them on a better path after release so it’s still working as intended. 

*Well, they do wring as much money out of they families through privatized phone services and commissary sales of luxuries like soap and toothbrushes, so they are learning that corporations are their masters and that trying to better themselves is likely futile, so they do get a better real world education than their crumbling public school could manage. 

That's the status quo ante.  And that's not the legal system, that's more at the feet of the legislative branch.  

And, like it or not, the legal system was working as intended w/r/to Trump.  Those pesky due process things SHOULD work just fine for the actually innocent who are suffering political prosecution.

This board is going to become big fans of official immunity and motions to dismiss indictments as politically motivated.



×
×
  • Create New...