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Tom "the turtle" Herman [Lame Duck or greatest 5d chess player ever?]


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18 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

I don't know if I would be so sure.  It may not even be the correct decision to fire him depending on the circumstances.  In retrospect, it may have been a bad idea to fire Charlie in spite of him going 5-7 and losing to Kansas.  By S&P+, the 2016 team was arguably the best team we have fielded since 2012, and there's a good chance it will be better in that regard than this year's team.

So this is your hill huh?   3 years on a downward slide coupled with recruiting and he is gone.  Last season he was still selling hope, this years recruiting is already regressing.  On that trajectory and the hot seat next season recruiting will NOT pick up.  

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1 hour ago, phdhorn said:

I'm not sure Mack knew all that much about actual football - he used to as an OC but it probably passed him buy (Greg D. Holla).
However, of course he was a great CEO and generally knew how to find guys who did and run the whole thing.
Until he got too full of himself and quit trying after 2009.

Outside of Davis, Mack did a reasonably good job with coordinator evaluation and hires.

Compared to what we've seen since he left, the hiring of Chizik, Muschamp, Harsin, and hell even Manny when he was brought in look spectacular.  He probably gets a knock for handling the Manny situation, however he did find an effective bandaid in Robinson, and Manny's story is still bizarre having success at Msst and initially here, then being awful here, then having reasonable success after.  I can cut him a bit of slack in reading how to deal with that.

If he can help Herman evaluate his staff and improve his process for identifying and vetting candidates, I'm all for it.  My only concern is Mack's biggest blind spot was his best buddy on staff, and Herman has a staff full of those.

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2 minutes ago, Llogg said:

The Diaz situation is baffling. The rumored friction with Akina is the only real explanation. Akina thought he had earned the right to be DC and Mack passed him over for the splash hire, whom Akina then undermined at every opportunity.

Akina did get pooched.  That is acted like a supposed little vag is a reflection on him, but I will say I always thought he deserved more of a shot to call that side of the ball.  

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12 minutes ago, Llogg said:

The Diaz situation is baffling. The rumored friction with Akina is the only real explanation. Akina thought he had earned the right to be DC and Mack passed him over for the splash hire, whom Akina then undermined at every opportunity.

Akina is a great db coach for man-press coverage schemes. That's not Diaz's scheme, and Akina wouldn't teach to what Diaz was doing. Probably enough blame for both of them given the circumstances. 

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1 hour ago, Otter said:

Okay now the Monday presser is making more sense. Hermensa came across very subdued, almost like a little boy, in obvious contrast to his normal arrogant dickheadedness. When cowchip brown asked his response to many fans accusing him of being arrogant, he turned red as a beet and managed to stammer out "I love our fans" rather than his typical response which would be to petulantly explain how no one understands the utter brilliance of what he's up to.

This has Mack's fingerprints all over it, except rather than molding Hermensa into a smooth politician, he's just coming across like a total beta.

This makes sense. It also means mensa's teeth will get more buttery every week 

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7 minutes ago, Walden Ponderer said:

Akina is a great db coach for man-press coverage schemes. That's not Diaz's scheme, and Akina wouldn't teach to what Diaz was doing. Probably enough blame for both of them given the circumstances. 

No, at that point the blame goes to Mack. I suppose it is possible Akina signed on to Diaz's scheme and then failed to deliver, but I am willing to bet that is not how it went down.

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11 hours ago, Treefidy said:

CDC gave Mack an office in Belmont with an open door to help mentor Herman.  Go listen to the pressers, tell me you don't hear more of Mack every week.  

Unfortunately he appears to be coaching him on how to deal with the press and public and nothing to do with actual football. 

Too bad. Mack could teach Herman a thing or two about special teams and discipline. Herman's teams commit so many dumb penalties and the special teams have been horrific.

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1 hour ago, kevwun said:

Herman will be gone after next season if he has a losing record this year and next.  That shit isn't even up for debate.

I agree with this.

Maybe after this year if we start 2-6.

Maryland was the most important game on the schedule given what happened last year,  and he failed miserably.  Needed that win to set some kind of positive tone for the year.  

Edited by Laga4
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5 minutes ago, Laga4 said:

I agree with this.

Maybe after this year if we start 2-6.

Maryland was the most important game on the schedule given what happened last year,  and he failed miserably.  Needed that win to set some kind of positive tone for the year.  

I remember making a comment about the impact of a Maryland loss on the program some time back in the summer. I don’t recall anyone even commenting on the possibility. I honestly don’t think anyone thought it could happen 2 years in a row. 

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16 minutes ago, BurntEyes said:

So let's see. In this thread people have:

Defended Sam's performance this year. 

Questioned the firing of Mack.

Questioned the firing ot Strong.

Defended Herman

Defended our DC for this year's performance.

Defended John Macovic.

Questioned whether Herman would be fired with 2 losing seasons.

I'm waiting for our WR blocking to be defended as well as Beck to complete this circle of stupid.

 

Also, it's only fair to give Herman four years.  After all, in his third year the players from his first "real" recruiting class will only be sophomores.  You would essentially be firing him for failing to perform with players he had no hand in signing.  Who is to say how he performs with another coach's players is in any way indicative of how he can perform with his own players?

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It wasn't just the fact of losing to Maryland two years in a row. It's the fact that many of the factors in last year's loss were key components in this year's loss. That's what has people all fired up, and rightfully so. Especially following that performance up with whatever you call that display against Tulsa. 

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2 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Also, it's only fair to give Herman four years.  After all, in his third year the players from his first "real" recruiting class will only be sophomores.  You would essentially be firing him for failing to perform with players he had no hand in signing.  Who is to say how he performs with another coach's players is in any way indicative of how he can perform with his own players?

I’m going to start handing out grades on a curve. Get ready.

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8 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Also, it's only fair to give Herman four years.  After all, in his third year the players from his first "real" recruiting class will only be sophomores.  You would essentially be firing him for failing to perform with players he had no hand in signing.  Who is to say how he performs with another coach's players is in any way indicative of how he can perform with his own players?

Not sure if serious

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Good points, Sam is not great, but he is far from our biggest problem on offense.  It's knee-jerk shit to blame him.  
Here's what some of you guys really need to fucking accept.  Texas high school football is not the savior you've been led to believe it is.  Nationwide recruiting with some guys from Texas is what is gonna win/has won national titles.  Neither your high school team back then (with you on it), nor as it stands right now...is anywhere near as awesome as you wish it would be.  
The championship landscape has passed Texas by.  Let's get ready for the next phase.  And by that, I mean let's show Coach Herman where to hunt Snipe

If a QB can’t hit simple intermediate throws then that is a huge problem.
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12 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Also, it's only fair to give Herman four years.  After all, in his third year the players from his first "real" recruiting class will only be sophomores.  You would essentially be firing him for failing to perform with players he had no hand in signing.  Who is to say how he performs with another coach's players is in any way indicative of how he can perform with his own players?

He beat blow-u with somebody else's players.

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32 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

I remember making a comment about the impact of a Maryland loss on the program some time back in the summer. I don’t recall anyone even commenting on the possibility. I honestly don’t think anyone thought it could happen 2 years in a row. 

Well, not after they lost their coach after they killed one of their own players.

Beating Tulane 28-21 at home is a loss coaching-wise, in my opinion.  Herman's 0 for 2 in doing a good job coaching this season.

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35 minutes ago, Fozzz said:

Also, it's only fair to give Herman four years.  After all, in his third year the players from his first "real" recruiting class will only be sophomores.  You would essentially be firing him for failing to perform with players he had no hand in signing.  Who is to say how he performs with another coach's players is in any way indicative of how he can perform with his own players?

I don't know man. Cock lover Stoopid won a natty in only his second season with John Blake's players. Recruiting great players hasn't ever been our problem. Because of this, Texas demands excellence from our coaches, that they find a way to win and not feed us with a bunch of bullshit excuses. Either they get it done or they get got.

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6 minutes ago, Otter said:

I don't know man. Cock lover Stoopid won a natty in only his second season with John Blake's players. Recruiting great players hasn't ever been our problem. Because of this, Texas demands excellence from our coaches, that they find a way to win and not feed us with a bunch of bullshit excuses. Either they get it done or they get got.

Stoops won that because the Air Raid was ahead of the defensive curve. Maybe we should look into hiring his former OC....That Buccaneer Guy or whatever his name is. 

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29 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

Stoops won that because the Air Raid was ahead of the defensive curve. Maybe we should look into hiring his former OC....That Buccaneer Guy or whatever his name is. 

That's who I wanted over the fraud that was hired from a backwater conference. Leach has proven himself to be able to compete at P5 schools which weren't even the premier program in the state. Washington St was Kansas bad when he assumed control of that program finishing 2-11, 1-11, 2-10 and 4-8  in that span winning 4 conference games. Now he's winning 8-9 games a season with 3 star recruits and recruiting classes ranked in the 40s and 50s. I'd love to see what he could do with the classes he could assemble at Texas.

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1 hour ago, runthebone said:

Well, not after they lost their coach after they killed one of their own players.

Beating Tulane 28-21 at home is a loss coaching-wise, in my opinion.  Herman's 0 for 2 in doing a good job coaching this season.

Tulane would actually beat us. They beat Nicholls last Saturday, who beat Kansas week 1, who could give us a game later this season. FUCK 

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13 minutes ago, Chad said:

That's who I wanted over the fraud that was hired from a backwater conference. Leach has proven himself to be able to compete at P5 schools which weren't even the premier program in the state. Washington St was Kansas bad when he assumed control of that program finishing 2-11, 1-11, 2-10 and 4-8  in that span winning 4 conference games. Now he's winning 8-9 games a season with 3 star recruits and recruiting classes ranked in the 40s and 50s. I'd love to see what he could do with the classes he could assemble at Texas.

The stuffed-shirt BMDs wouldn't be able to deal with him...A few more bad losses and they might get over it. Wazzu has only played mullet squads so far this year, but Leach's D (his supposed Achilles heel) has been decent-to-great so far. 

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4 hours ago, Fozzz said:

Also, it's only fair to give Herman four years.  After all, in his third year the players from his first "real" recruiting class will only be sophomores.  You would essentially be firing him for failing to perform with players he had no hand in signing.  Who is to say how he performs with another coach's players is in any way indicative of how he can perform with his own players?

CS was only given three years.  If TH has a similar record after 3 years and he isn't gone as well we're going to be in a world of hurt on multiple levels.  One of which will be the perception as to why CS was actually fired.  The national debate on that topic alone would be off the reservation stupid.  No thanks.  Similar record after 3 years and he has to go.

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4 minutes ago, Stampeder said:

CS was only given three years.  If TH has a similar record after 3 years and he isn't gone as well we're going to be in a world of hurt on multiple levels.  One of which will be the perception as to why CS was actually fired.  The national debate on that topic alone would be off the reservation stupid.  No thanks.  Similar record after 3 years and he has to go.

In fairness, CS lost to Kansas at their absolute lowest point... had he not lost that game I think he would have gotten a 4th year

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7 minutes ago, MonkeyDoughnut said:

In fairness, CS lost to Kansas at their absolute lowest point... had he not lost that game I think he would have gotten a 4th year

Lots of differences between TH and CS.  Generally speaking, I think TH has the overall program more organized and headed in a better direction than CS did.  Just saying, if the records are similar and he isn't gone we're going to get pounded by national media for CS being fired.  Don't want any part of that and truthfully three years is plenty to show marked progress.  He should be gone if the records are similar.

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Just now, 6th Street said:

What's most amazing is that this year's team seems to be worse than last year across the board. Haven't seen improvement anywhere.

O-line definitely seems better and the running game has way more talent than last year.  Major step back w/o the Punter and moderate step back defensively.  We need the offense to make more than a moderate improvement from last year to approach 8 wins.  

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5 hours ago, 6th Street said:

Too bad. Mack could teach Herman a thing or two about special teams and discipline. Herman's teams commit so many dumb penalties and the special teams have been horrific.

Three blocked punts in a single game?  Give Herman a lofty goal.  I like that. 

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I wonder what things would look like had Mack retired and Muschamp been promoted from HCIW.  It seems like Muschamp has his feet on the ground now at SC, but his Florida tenure was rough.  Would Muschamp have done any better than Charlie?   Muschamp might be the real deal now, but when he left for the Florida job, he was just like Tom Herman with defensive chops.  

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Just now, lemonandaturd said:

I wonder what things would look like had Mack retired and Muschamp been promoted from HCIW.  It seems like Muschamp has his feet on the ground now at SC, but his Florida tenure was rough.  Would Muschamp have done any better than Charlie?   Muschamp might be the real deal now, but when he left for the Florida job, he was just like Tom Herman with defensive chops.  

From a personal standpoint, I'm a WM champion and I wish him the best, but I think we dodged a bullet there. It's looking like as a head ball coach he was a hell of a DC.

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The offense would have been absolute dogshit under Muschamp just as it was under Mack in 2011.  Whether it would have gotten better like it did with Harsin would have depended on who he hired at OC, and seeing who he hired at UF, it probably would have stayed awful and Muschamp would have been eventually fired.

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4 minutes ago, Jack Wilson said:

From a personal standpoint, I'm a WM champion and I wish him the best, but I think we dodged a bullet there. It's looking like as a head ball coach he was a hell of a DC.

I don't doubt WM wasn't going to get Texas back to where it was in 2008/2009, but I also think it facilitates a smoother transition.  Mack leaves gracefully.  The succession plan is put in place.  WM is given the reigns.  Maybe it's a slower burn.  THEN we change course.  Not having WM bail.  Mack flounder around far too long, poison the well, then get the boot.  Then a bumbled coaching search, to what we have now.  

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3 minutes ago, BabaYaga said:

I don't doubt WM wasn't going to get Texas back to where it was in 2008/2009, but I also think it facilitates a smoother transition.  Mack leaves gracefully.  The succession plan is put in place.  WM is given the reigns.  Maybe it's a slower burn.  THEN we change course.  Not having WM bail.  Mack flounder around far too long, poison the well, then get the boot.  Then a bumbled coaching search, to what we have now.  

Be cooler if he were given the rains. I miss them. 

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43 minutes ago, 6th Street said:

What's most amazing is that this year's team seems to be worse than last year across the board. Haven't seen improvement anywhere.

You are absolutely the most successful troll on this site. Your positive rep must only come from those too dense to see it or other trolls. 

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