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Dallas Cowboys 2019 Offseason Thread of Mediocrity


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3 minutes ago, Newy25 said:

What exactly is your alternative? Let's say Dallas does not sign Dak. Who is your QB in that scenario?

Start over and draft one or sign a FA.

Overpaying for Dak will affect other positions too.

 

It bears repeating, I do not think Dak sucks.  I believe he’s not worth the spend of the amounts being suggested.

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13 minutes ago, slorch said:

Start over and draft one or sign a FA.

Overpaying for Dak will affect other positions too.

 

It bears repeating, I do not think Dak sucks.  I believe he’s not worth the spend of the amounts being suggested.

Which FA quarterback is better than Dak? 

Spoiler alert:  They don't exist because top 10 QBs never make it to FA. 

 

Which college QB available at the end of round 1 is going to be better than Dak? If you get lucky, they might be better than Dak with 2-3 years of development. So let's throw away the prime years of the oline, Zeke, Amari, the first good defense in 20 years, so we can find out if that experiment worked in 3 years. 

Or, you could agree that re-signing a proven winner in Dak, is pretty much the only non-regarded option at this point. 

I'm bored...

 

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Edited by totallynotabuttpirate
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13 minutes ago, slorch said:

Start over and draft one or sign a FA.

Overpaying for Dak will affect other positions too.

 

It bears repeating, I do not think Dak sucks.  I believe he’s not worth the spend of the amounts being suggested.

I never thought Romo was worth it either, but he was.  Gotta sign Dak.  This team is too close to start over.  

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17 minutes ago, slorch said:

Start over and draft one or sign a FA.

Overpaying for Dak will affect other positions too.

 

It bears repeating, I do not think Dak sucks.  I believe he’s not worth the spend of the amounts being suggested.

FA QBs cost just as much and are worse than Dak. 

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We are gonna pay Dak $32m a year and either kellen Moore is the genius some people think and we roll and dak turns into Russell Wilson, or none of that works and we are in the same position we’ve been in for the last 20 years. It’s not like we aren’t used to this shit already.

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21 minutes ago, EvilCaseMcCoy said:

I never thought Romo was worth it either, but he was.  Gotta sign Dak.  This team is too close to start over.  

Dak isn’t remotely the playmaker Romo was.

 

In the end, as long as Garrett is the HC, it don’t make a fuck...

Edited by slorch
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Guys, the people on the don’t pay Dak side are basically saying they’d rather tank than pay Dak. They’re saying they’d rather go the redskins route and franchise tag him until he refuses to do it anymore, even if that means he holds out on the first franchise tag and never comes back. They’d rather suffer through the Chad Hutchinson/Drew Henson days instead of overpaying for Dak, even while we’re in a legitimate championship window, because they feel like it will cripple us over the life of his contract. Neither side is wrong right now, especially now that Wentz got 32 mil a year and Dak is probably going to want more than that. This situation is fucked. I see both sides at this point. Because I don’t even see how we can pay Cooper if Dak gets Wentz+ money. 

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22 minutes ago, slorch said:

Dak isn’t remotely the playmaker Romo was.

 

In the end, as long as Garrett is the HC, it don’t make a fuck...

If we’re comparing 3rd/4th year Romo to 3rd/4th year Dak, how can you even make a comparison? Romo had arguably the 3rd best wr of all time in his prime, along with a good running game and a good defense. And I’m obviously talking about Romo as a 3rd year starter, because it isn’t comparable if we’re talking his 3rd year in the league. This year is the test. He finally has playmakers to work with outside of a running game. It’s just a god damn fucking shame that we have to actually pay him this year.

Edited by youdunnf'dup
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And you can pay Dak and go 9-7 every season, never drafting better or going deep in the POs, if at all...

 

but QB is tied up...and the GM’s hands are tied.

 

woo-hoo. Happy times!!!

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What did Wentz get? 32 per year? How much guaranteed? I think, unfortunately, that's now the starting point negotiation for Dak because his agent will hammer Stephen with "wentz got this and he misses a ton of games while my guy is there every down". 

Hopefully new offense and Dak shows he can carry the team this year. 

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50 minutes ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Guys, the people on the don’t pay Dak side are basically saying they’d rather tank than pay Dak. They’re saying they’d rather go the redskins route and franchise tag him until he refuses to do it anymore, even if that means he holds out on the first franchise tag and never comes back. They’d rather suffer through the Chad Hutchinson/Drew Henson days instead of overpaying for Dak, even while we’re in a legitimate championship window, because they feel like it will cripple us over the life of his contract. Neither side is wrong right now, especially now that Wentz got 32 mil a year and Dak is probably going to want more than that. This situation is fucked. I see both sides at this point. Because I don’t even see how we can pay Cooper if Dak gets Wentz+ money. 

The QB pricing market is already fucked. If you're waiting on the next Tom Brady or Pat Mahomes as the only time it's worth paying that much, you might as well just go back to the revolving door at QB. Every new QB deal is out of whack, but that's the market. I'd rather pay too much for a proven QB with potential than pretend that we're gonna magically fall into a franchise QB in the draft. Because that just ain't gonna happen.

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1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Guys, the people on the don’t pay Dak side are basically saying they’d rather tank than pay Dak. They’re saying they’d rather go the redskins route and franchise tag him until he refuses to do it anymore, even if that means he holds out on the first franchise tag and never comes back. They’d rather suffer through the Chad Hutchinson/Drew Henson days instead of overpaying for Dak, even while we’re in a legitimate championship window, because they feel like it will cripple us over the life of his contract. Neither side is wrong right now, especially now that Wentz got 32 mil a year and Dak is probably going to want more than that. This situation is fucked. I see both sides at this point. Because I don’t even see how we can pay Cooper if Dak gets Wentz+ money. 

Do we get to live through Anthony Wright, Clint Stoerner and Quincy Carter too? I'm down, let him walk, we'll luck into a franchise QB really easily, probably. Everybody does it. There's tons of them all over the NFL right?

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27 minutes ago, 'stache said:

The QB pricing market is already fucked. If you're waiting on the next Tom Brady or Pat Mahomes as the only time it's worth paying that much, you might as well just go back to the revolving door at QB. Every new QB deal is out of whack, but that's the market. I'd rather pay too much for a proven QB with potential than pretend that we're gonna magically fall into a franchise QB in the draft. Because that just ain't gonna happen.

 

8 minutes ago, BurdineBandit said:

Do we get to live through Anthony Wright, Clint Stoerner and Quincy Carter too? I'm down, let him walk, we'll luck into a franchise QB really easily, probably. Everybody does it. There's tons of them all over the NFL right?

I agree with you guys for the most part. I’ve been on the pay Dak bandwagon since this thread started. But now that we’ve let wentz, and wentz specifically get 32 mil a year before Dak, we’re about to have to give Dak right around the same contract that Russell Wilson just got. Let that sink in for a second. Nothing about that makes sense. I’d love to give him a deal that matches wentz’s deal (even though I probably wouldn’t have said that 2 weeks ago), but now that’s almost out of the question. And we’re not about to let Dak hold out. He has all the leverage. We’re in a championship window and he’s our only viable option at qb. He’s gonna get whatever the fuck he wants, basically 

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Despite actual evidence, I think the perception of Wentz is that he's above Dak. I don't get it, at all, but the talking heads act like he's Dan fucking Marino. The same people discuss Dak's flaws ad nauseum. I think his agent will press hard for more than Wentz but I suspect he'll end up getting something very similar.

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Just now, youdunnf'dup said:

 

I agree with you guys for the most part. I’ve been on the pay Dak bandwagon since this thread started. But now that we’ve let wentz, and wentz specifically get 32 mil a year before Dak, we’re about to have to give Dak right around the same contract that Russell Wilson just got. Let that sink in for a second. Nothing about that makes sense. I’d love to give him a deal that matches wentz’s deal (even though I probably wouldn’t have said that 2 weeks ago), but now that’s almost out of the question. And we’re not about to let Dak hold out. He has all the leverage. We’re in a championship window and he’s our only viable option at qb. He’s gonna get whatever the fuck he wants, basically 

Every QB with an ounce of talent has the leverage these days. The game is all about the QB. You don't have one, you aren't going to win and any team that has is the outlier, especially in today's game. QB salaries are not coming down any time soon. The longer you wait, the more you will have to pay. The next QB is always going to be the highest paid. Remember when Stafford was the highest paid ever? That was some years ago.

Dak and his agent see Wentz's contract. And it will start there. To think he will get paid a lot less than that is very naive. It's simple economics. It doesn't matter what you think Dak is worth. The market will set the value. And right now the value for his services is where Wentz is at. And any QB worth a damn. You are also naive if you think Dallas walks away from him. They have no backup plan right now. The backups we have now are junk to put it nicely. Neither of them would win us more than 4 games at the max. We'd have another 2015 season with them.

Dak is good enough to win in this league if he gets the right support system like other successful QBs. And that means coaches worth a damn and a scheme that caters to his strengths. I think the player personnel on our offense, especially with the OL coming back a lot healthier, is good enough to win. Dak, Zeke, this OL and what we have at WR is plenty good enough. But we don't have coaches who have gotten them into the best chance to win and an offensive scheme gameplan to utilize their strengths. 

Switch our staff with the Rams staff and you'd see a night and day difference with both teams. Garrett with Goff would be a nightmare for Goff. I'd love to see what McVay could do with Dak. 

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My main point is, if we pay Dak (at this point) it’s going to be damn near impossible to pay cooper. Dak needs cooper, or someone of that caliber. He just does. There was a night and day difference in the passing game after he came. Those types of WRs are hard to find. We have one now, and he’s 25. We absolutely have to pay cooper. 

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1 hour ago, Vic Mackey said:

Every QB with an ounce of talent has the leverage these days. The game is all about the QB. You don't have one, you aren't going to win and any team that has is the outlier, especially in today's game. QB salaries are not coming down any time soon. The longer you wait, the more you will have to pay. The next QB is always going to be the highest paid. Remember when Stafford was the highest paid ever? That was some years ago.

While I agree with the bold, I would also argue that teams that sign shitty gigantic deals with QBs, usually free agent signings but sometimes huge extensions, aren't going to win either. It's a no brainer if you have a top 8 QB. The tough part is managing what to do with a #9-#20 type of QB. 

 

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8 minutes ago, TornACL said:

While I agree with the bold, I would also argue that teams that sign shitty gigantic deals with QBs, usually free agent signings but sometimes huge extensions, aren't going to win either. It's a no brainer if you have a top 8 QB. The tough part is managing what to do with a #9-#20 type of QB. 

 

Well, if it's a 9-16 type of QB, and you have some talent around them (and I believe Dak is in this zone), then you're likely going to the playoffs 3 out of every 4 years if not every year.  If you have a solid defense during those years, you have a shot.  

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1 hour ago, youdunnf'dup said:

My main point is, if we pay Dak (at this point) it’s going to be damn near impossible to pay cooper. Dak needs cooper, or someone of that caliber. He just does. There was a night and day difference in the passing game after he came. Those types of WRs are hard to find. We have one now, and he’s 25. We absolutely have to pay cooper. 

They will still pay Cooper because they have too much  money invested in offense to let a giant hole at receiver derail it. Where they'll be screwed is on defense unless they can draft at an elite level for the next several years. 

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7 minutes ago, Trey3216 said:

Well, if it's a 9-16 type of QB, and you have some talent around them (and I believe Dak is in this zone), then you're likely going to the playoffs 3 out of every 4 years if not every year.  If you have a solid defense during those years, you have a shot.  

Remember, in this scenario it has to be a 9-16 type of QB carrying a giant contract of $25M+.

 

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17 minutes ago, TornACL said:

Remember, in this scenario it has to be a 9-16 type of QB carrying a giant contract of $25M+.

 

35mil. $25 mil was a pipe dream that was never going to happen unless we paid him last year, and last year he hadn’t proven enough (mainly because, in hindsight, we gave him shit for weapons like the wr by committee he started out with last year). I can almost guarantee it’ll be 35 mil a year. And that just fucking sucks, IMO.

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9 hours ago, slorch said:

Embrace your inner ginger.   LOLz.

 

hell, are you Spaulding?

Yes because I find it absolutely laughable that you continue to destroy Dak at every opportunity, follow it up by saying "I don't even hate Dak", and then say how bad Garrett is, and not give Dak any credit for doing what he's done in a very vanilla, conservative offense, is the point.  And you say this stupid shit.

7 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Drew why the fuck did you take the bait and make a tldr post. Jesus Christ, man lol. You aren’t changing anyone’s opinion on Dak. Your opinion on Dak isn’t changing. Feeding the troll(s) at this point. Just let them play the games so one side can be wrong. 

I know, still have to vent every once in a while...if you haven't noticed I don't post but once or twice every couple days now. Trying to stay away from the stupid.

4 hours ago, irishtexan said:

We are gonna pay Dak $32m a year and either kellen Moore is the genius some people think and we roll and dak turns into Russell Wilson, or none of that works and we are in the same position we’ve been in for the last 20 years. It’s not like we aren’t used to this shit already.

Pretty Much.  It'll work, or it wont and the Cowboys will still be a middle of the pack team.

4 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

Guys, the people on the don’t pay Dak side are basically saying they’d rather tank than pay Dak. They’re saying they’d rather go the redskins route and franchise tag him until he refuses to do it anymore, even if that means he holds out on the first franchise tag and never comes back. They’d rather suffer through the Chad Hutchinson/Drew Henson days instead of overpaying for Dak, even while we’re in a legitimate championship window, because they feel like it will cripple us over the life of his contract. Neither side is wrong right now, especially now that Wentz got 32 mil a year and Dak is probably going to want more than that. This situation is fucked. I see both sides at this point. Because I don’t even see how we can pay Cooper if Dak gets Wentz+ money. 

I can easily see them pay both Cooper and Dak. I really don't get this money issue. It won't really start affecting them for a couple of years, and by then the Cap will be even higher, and Dak will be paid around the 10th-12 highest QB contract, as he should be.

4 hours ago, youdunnf'dup said:

If we’re comparing 3rd/4th year Romo to 3rd/4th year Dak, how can you even make a comparison? Romo had arguably the 3rd best wr of all time in his prime, along with a good running game and a good defense. And I’m obviously talking about Romo as a 3rd year starter, because it isn’t comparable if we’re talking his 3rd year in the league. This year is the test. He finally has playmakers to work with outside of a running game. It’s just a god damn fucking shame that we have to actually pay him this year.

Also 3rd/4th year Romo was actually 6th/7th year Romo.  Remember that dude sat on the bench for 3 years.  He was already 25 before he got in a regular season game.  People forget that.

3 hours ago, slorch said:

And you can pay Dak and go 9-7 every season, never drafting better or going deep in the POs, if at all...

 

but QB is tied up...and the GM’s hands are tied.

 

woo-hoo. Happy times!!!

Dak has only gone 9-7 one year, and it was a year where EVERYTHING went wrong.  It wasn't just Zeke.  People forget that they had over the hill Dez, and super old Witten(which should concern us this year), and also how bad was the OL that year?  People continue to say "everything has to be perfect or Dak struggles" when that's not the case.  You take away Zeke, and credible receiving option that isn't white and 5'10, and has a revolving door at LG/LT and yeah...he'll struggle.  Most QB's will.

2 hours ago, slorch said:

“Proven guy with potential.”

lolz.  

“We know what his ceiling is, but he’s going to miraculously improve.”

Yeah he's PROVEN he can take this team to the playoffs and play well there.  And as a 3rd year QB, there's no doubt he has potential to get better.

 

C'mon Slorch, stop being a troll.

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not trolling one iota.

 

I love the Cowboys.  I don't think signing Dak for that money is the right move.  I do not believe in him as a game changer/ play maker.  trust me, being proven wrong will be ohhh so sweet; but deep down inside, we all know what is to come with this regime...

 

Jerrah is the troll you're looking for.  We are just the gluttons for punishment.

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7 hours ago, Newy25 said:

What exactly is your alternative? Let's say Dallas does not sign Dak. Who is your QB in that scenario?

 

6 hours ago, Gene Parmesan said:

FA QBs cost just as much and are worse than Dak. 

teddy bridgewater is a backup and much, much better than that dumb fullback we have taking snaps.  colt mccoy would be ten times the quarterback dak is if he played for the cowboys.  there are plenty of others as well.  half the backups in the league could put up better numbers throwing to our receivers behind our line with zeke commanding the attention that he does.  dak is in the absolute best possible situation in the entire NFL and he is a middle of the road quarterback.  he’s a goddamn fucking fraud and all of you fucking goddamn morons have swallowed the bullshit with big dumb goofy grins on your faces as though we aren’t heading deeper into the abyss.  fuck every last one of you.  except a few of you, you know who you are. 

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this team has one chance to not die on the vine.  one.  if jerry and his retarded son can put off paying dak until after the 2019 season it will give them time to see how bad dak really is and allow mike white to get some snaps and absolutely fucking torch opposing defenses.  once they see the better quarterback gives them two more years after this one of bargain qb prices it allows us to win super bowls with white leading this team while dak gets $15MM or so from some other poor team so he can go make them mediocre.  

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3 hours ago, HuntinHorn said:

Hopefully Witten is not trying to polish a turd here... and there is some good improvement with the help of Kitna.

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I mean, it’s the same thing that everyone covering mini camp had said. But I’ve heard so many things out of mini and training camp that just turned out to be flat out wrong (especially from Dave Hellman, and like Dave Hellman), that we’ll just have to see. That is encouraging though, because he’s never been a good practice player.

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On 6/12/2019 at 12:21 PM, slorch said:

Start over and draft one or sign a FA.

Overpaying for Dak will affect other positions too.

 

It bears repeating, I do not think Dak sucks.  I believe he’s not worth the spend of the amounts being suggested.

You seem like the type of guy who would end up with Case Keenum or Ryan Fitzpatrick as the team's QB.  You'd be doing a lot of due diligence on Blake Bortles because he'd be cheap.

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2 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

You seem like the type of guy who would end up with Case Keenum or Ryan Fitzpatrick as the team's QB.  You'd be doing a lot of due diligence on Blake Bortles because he'd be cheap.

Or maybe I'm not the guy who appreciates being charged $35 for a Whataburger.

 

It's a damned good meal, possibly better than average, as far as meals go... but it ain't worth $35.

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15 minutes ago, slorch said:

Or maybe I'm not the guy who appreciates being charged $35 for a Whataburger.

 

It's a damned good meal, possibly better than average, as far as meals go... but it ain't worth $35.

How about this, why don't you give some alternatives to what the Cowboys should do rather than re-sign Dak.  Try and be reasonable and as specific as one can.

 

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9 minutes ago, Patrick Bateman said:

How about this, why don't you give some alternatives to what the Cowboys should do rather than re-sign Dak.  Try and be reasonable and as specific as one can.

 

Cool, so I solve the Cowboys' problem in one post?  Easy ask, bro.

Franchise him after this contract runs out.  IF he bails, he bails.  You're still going to need to pay Zeke and the OL as well as the young Defensive studs coming up.

 

You're not paying everyone.  Have Dak prove he's worth the contract.   He has not done that to date.  Let him prove he's too valuable to let go.

 

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On 6/12/2019 at 2:36 PM, 'stache said:

Despite actual evidence, I think the perception of Wentz is that he's above Dak. I don't get it, at all, but the talking heads act like he's Dan fucking Marino. The same people discuss Dak's flaws ad nauseum. I think his agent will press hard for more than Wentz but I suspect he'll end up getting something very similar.

Wentz was a top 2 pick. That type of pedigree will go a long way towards elevating him in the minds of everyone.  Not to mention that his run of play before his knee injury was fairly high quality.  The fact is the stink that comes with being drafted that highly is hard to wash off.  Watch Winston have an average to decent season this upcoming year and end up signing a stupid contract.  Same thing happened to Tannehill a few years back and he wasn't even drafted as highly as Winston and Wentz.

 

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2 hours ago, Viper said:

This guy looks at Daks strengths and weaknesses

 

 

Very thorough analysis. He didn't mention much about Dak's footwork issues, but thorough nonetheless.  He's right though, and you hear that from Aikman, Broadus, Sturm, and a lot of guys who discuss him frequently,  Dak is hella prepared and if he can become more consistent with his downfield passing his ceiling suddenly raises into the elite stratosphere. But that's a big if.  

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6 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

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It's the same shit every year. Everyone here is Cowboys media either directly working for Jones (Broaddus) or for their flagship station. They're in mini camps with zero pads, zero hitting, just going through motions and these media fucks are blowing it up like you can tell shit about them from that setting. 

They'll kiss their ass now, kiss their ass at training camp, and in the regular season it's 50/50 whether the team will suck or not. 

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1 hour ago, totallynotabuttpirate said:

Yup. No way around it after wentz got his money. We’re kinda fucked, ladies. I’m finally crossing over. I think you have to play the franchise tag game until we’re all blue in the face. Or at least until he proves without a shadow of a doubt that he can carry this team if it came down to it. I love me some Dak. A lot more than most. Paying him $34 mil a year, at this stage in his career, with all the unknown would just be fucking stupid IMO. It might work out, it might not. But that’s the problem. If we pay him that much and he stays an 8-16ish qb like he is right now, we might as well be the Marvin Lewis Bengals. Good enough to stay in playoff contention every year, but not good enough to be taken seriously as an actual championship contender. I just can’t believe it’s gotten to this point. I feel like 28-30 mil would’ve gotten it done before wentz’s deal. Now we’re gonna drag this thing out, Goff might get paid, and the price will go up even more.

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A big part of the problem is that notion of the QB of the Cowboys being a marquee position in all of sports right up with Yankees shortstop. The media and Jones family perpetrate it and guys like Romo and Dak start thinking they should get top of the league money because they're in such a marquee spot even though they aren't top 10 in the league in their position. 

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5 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

A big part of the problem is that notion of the QB of the Cowboys being a marquee position in all of sports right up with Yankees shortstop. The media and Jones family perpetrate it and guys like Romo and Dak start thinking they should get top of the league money because they're in such a marquee spot even though they aren't top 10 in the league in their position. 

I think it has more to do with the fact that it’s the most scrutinized position in all of sports. Romo would be viewed a lot differently if he was the qb of the dolphins for his entire career. You’re viewed under a microscope unlike any other position in sports, and it really isn’t close. 

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29 minutes ago, slorch said:

These media reports are basically coming out saying, "Show me a loss..."

 

LOLz.   It's PRACTICE, man...

On paper, this is by far the most talented team Garrett has had. That’s why his contract hasn’t been renewed yet. This team seems to respond better when he’s on the hot seat for some reason. But the Jones family knows what they’ve built, and they know it’s as good if not better than the 07 roster. Now we all know how that turned out, but the talent is obviously there this year. 

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10 hours ago, Junior Miller said:

It's the same shit every year. Everyone here is Cowboys media either directly working for Jones (Broaddus) or for their flagship station. They're in mini camps with zero pads, zero hitting, just going through motions and these media fucks are blowing it up like you can tell shit about them from that setting. 

They'll kiss their ass now, kiss their ass at training camp, and in the regular season it's 50/50 whether the team will suck or not. 

Dude, the guys on 105.3 constantly bitch about how shitty Garrett-Top is at coaching, how annoying it is that Jerry wants to keep him around, and are split just like this board on Dak.  They don’t suck up to Jerry just because they’re the radio home

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