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Posted
3 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

The Israelis have crippled the entire economy of Yemen because the Houthis, who, as I understand it, are fighting the government of Yemen, fired a missile at Israel.

sounds like the houthis are playing chess not checkers. 

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, futureman said:

you talking about the USS Liberty?

Excellent call. Most likely don't know what youire talking about.

Outrageous attack by Israel on US Navy ship.

 

Quote

The USS Liberty incident was an attack on a United States Navy technical research ship (spy ship), USS Liberty, by Israeli Air Force jet fighter aircraft and Israeli Navy motor torpedo boats, on 8 June 1967, during the Six-Day War.[2] The combined air and sea attack killed 34 crew members (naval officers, seamen, two marines, and one civilian NSA employee), wounded 171 crew members, and severely damaged the ship.[3] At the time, the ship was in international waters north of the Sinai Peninsula, about 25.5 nautical miles (47.2 km; 29.3 mi) northwest from the Egyptian city of Arish.[1][4]

Israel apologized for the attack, saying that the USS Liberty had been attacked in error after being mistaken for an Egyptian ship.[5] Both the Israeli and U.S. governments conducted inquiries and issued reports that concluded the attack was a mistake due to Israeli confusion about the ship's identity.[6] Others, including survivors of the attack, have rejected these conclusions and maintain that the attack was deliberate.[7][8]

...

During the attack, antennas were severed, gas drums caught fire, and the ship's flag was knocked down. McGonagle sent an urgent request for help to the Sixth Fleet, "Under attack by unidentified jet aircraft, require immediate assistance".

The Mirages left after expending their ammunition, and were replaced by a flight of two Dassault Super Mystères codenamed Royal flight. The Mysteres were armed with napalm bombs, and were flown by Captain Yossi Zuk and his wingman, Yaakov Hamermish. The Mysteres released their payloads over the ship and strafed it with their cannons. Much of the ship's superstructure caught fire.

...

[These boats arrive as Liberty is a flaming wreck.]

After coming under fire, the torpedo boats returned fire with their cannons, killing Liberty's helmsman.[45] The torpedo boats then launched five torpedoes at the Liberty.[46] At 12:35Z (14:35 local time)[45] one torpedo hit Liberty on the starboard side forward of the superstructure, creating a 39 ft (12 m) wide hole in what had been a cargo hold converted to the ship's research spaces and killing 25 servicemen, almost all of them from the intelligence section, and wounding dozens.[45] It has been said the torpedo hit a major hull frame that absorbed much of the energy; crew members reported that if the torpedo had missed the frame the Liberty would have split in two. The other four torpedoes missed the ship.[citation needed]

The torpedo boats then closed in and strafed the ship's hull with their cannons and machine guns.

Quote

A communication to the Israeli ambassador on 10 June, by Secretary Rusk stated, among other things:

At the time of the attack, the USS Liberty was flying the American flag and its identification was clearly indicated in large white letters and numerals on its hull. ... Experience demonstrates that both the flag and the identification number of the vessel were readily visible from the air ... Accordingly, there is every reason to believe that the USS Liberty was identified, or at least her nationality determined, by Israeli aircraft approximately one hour before the attack. ... The subsequent attack by the torpedo boats, substantially after the vessel was or should have been identified by Israeli military forces, manifests the same reckless disregard for human life.[50][51]

...

The Senate Foreign Relations Committee...the senators were dismayed about the attack, as expressed by Senator Bourke B. Hickenlooper: "From what I have read I can't tolerate for one minute that this [attack] was an accident." There was concern about obtaining more information on the attack, as expressed by Committee chairman J. William Fulbright: "We asked for [the attack investigation report] about two weeks ago and have not received it yet from Secretary Rusk. ... By the time we get to it we will be on some other subject." Secretary McNamara promised fast delivery of the investigation report, "... you will have it in four hours", and concluded his remarks by saying: "I simply want to emphasize that the investigative report does not show any evidence of a conscious intent to attack a U.S. vessel."[70]

Quote

Some intelligence and military officials dispute Israel's explanation.[77] Dean Rusk, U.S. Secretary of State at the time of the incident, wrote:

I was never satisfied with the Israeli explanation. Their sustained attack to disable and sink Liberty precluded an assault by accident or some trigger-happy local commander. Through diplomatic channels we refused to accept their explanations. I didn't believe them then, and I don't believe them to this day. The attack was outrageous.[78]

...

Other survivors run several additional websites. Citing Ennes's book, Lenczowski notes: Liberty's personnel received firm orders not to say anything to anybody about the attack, and the naval inquiry was conducted in such a way as to earn it the name of "coverup"

Quote

In 2002, Captain Ward Boston, JAGC, U.S. Navy, senior counsel for the Court of Inquiry, said that the Court of Inquiry's findings were intended to cover up what was a deliberate attack by Israel on a ship that the Israelis knew to be American. In 2004, in response to the publication of A. Jay Cristol's book The Liberty Incident, which Boston said was an "insidious attempt to whitewash the facts", Boston prepared and signed an affidavit in which he said that Admiral Kidd had told him that the government ordered Kidd to falsely report that the attack was a mistake, and that Boston and Kidd both believed the attack was deliberate.

But why?

Quote

Several books and the BBC documentary USS Liberty: Dead in the Water argued that Liberty was attacked in order to prevent the U.S. from knowing about the forthcoming attack in the Golan Heights, which would violate a cease-fire to which Israel's government had agreed.[89] However, Syria did not accept the cease fire until 9 June, after the attack on Liberty.[90] Russian author Joseph Daichman, in his book History of the Mossad, states Israel was justified in attacking the Liberty.[91] Israel knew that American radio signals were intercepted by the Soviet Union and that the Soviets would certainly inform Egypt of the fact that, by moving troops to the Golan Heights, Israel had left the Egyptian border undefended.

But why?

I recollect reading that the reason was to shield their attack on the Golan Heights. The above said the Israelis were avoiding being caught violating a ceasefire which had not even been agreed upon yet. The cease fire stuff is specious.

Still, Israel wanted to obscure their move against the Golan Heights because Israel had said they would not make that attack. They didn't want to be restrained by the American objections. Better to seek forgiveness than permission.

The observation by the Russian author is new to me and makes sense. I sort of admire the Russian pragmatism of saying the attack was therefore justified as, presumably, it was in the national interests of Israel.

Johnson was president at the time. He was a pragmatist. I don't think he wanted the hot potato of getting in the middle of this.

I am outraged everytime I dig into this story. There's nothing to be done now. The captain of the Liberty received the Medal of Honor but was awarded the medal at a base instead of the White House. Shame all around except for the captain and crew of the Liberty who refused any aid by the Israelis after the attack ended. He knew the score. 

The tail is wagging the biggest dog in the world. I hate that. 

To be clear, I mean Israel not persons of Jewish faith. It's a shame that I have to add that clarification.

Edited by RomaVicta
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Posted
On 7/16/2024 at 1:42 AM, PRONG HORN said:

 

 

I would think that having tunnel openings in UNRWA buildings might have something to do with it.  

 

 

 

7 hours ago, PRONG HORN said:

giphy-13.gif

Two remarkably insightful posts. Keep 'em coming.

 

Posted
9 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

The Israelis have crippled the entire economy of Yemen because the Houthis, who, as I understand it, are fighting the government of Yemen, fired a missile at Israel. In wikipedia, I just read that the Houthis are Iran-backed. Does this make any sense to anyone? I truly don't know a great deal about the area other than the war is ruthless and we're participating in making things worse there.

But that's how we roll.

Hey but they did it with F15s, so cool man.

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Posted
40 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

To be clear, I mean Israel not persons of Jewish faith. It's a shame that I have to add that clarification.

It's the same thing to Prong and all the other antisemites on the board.

Posted
9 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

It's the same thing to Prong and all the other antisemites on the board.



I do enjoy dating/banging Jewish chicks, but I’ve never been to Israel.  
 

 

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Posted
2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

I see now we’ve moved on to feeling bad for the Houthis for getting their shit pushed in after fucking around and finding out.

 

2 hours ago, 956 Worldwide said:

lol, so much butthurt for the poor Houthi fuel storage facilities. 

Maybe take a lap and a nap, champ, and stop lying about what everyone else is saying. God you're such a fucking pussy about this topic.

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Posted
3 hours ago, Biff Tannen said:

Just want to say it is preposterous that bibi is getting a free forum in OUR FUCKING CONGRESS to sit there and spew his bullshit without any repercussions. 

Wonder if he packed a suitcase full of his dirty undies for Matt Miller to dry clean while he was here. 

Posted
2 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

 

Maybe take a lap and a nap, champ, and stop lying about what everyone else is saying. God you're such a fucking pussy about this topic.

Spider-Man.meme.jpg

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Posted
Quote

 

"You're saying that children in Gaza are being shot by snipers?" asked Smith.

"Definitively," said Dr. Perlmutter. "I have two children that I have photographs of that were shot so perfectly in the chest, I couldn't put my stethoscope over their heart more accurately, and directly on the side of the head, in the same child. No toddler gets shot twice by mistake by the 'world's best sniper.' And they're dead-center shots."

In fact, more than 20 doctors recently in Gaza also told "Sunday Morning" about gunshot wounds to children.

One American doctor told us he even reviewed CT scans to confirm what he saw because he "didn't believe that this many children could be admitted to a single hospital with gunshot wounds to the head." Some shootings have been captured on video.

 

Quote


Some medical professionals who spoke to "Sunday Morning" requested their identities be kept private, as some plan to return again to Gaza. A Virginia-based doctor told us, "We all see gunshots in the U.S., but we have never seen anything like the gunshots to kids in Gaza." Another Virginia-based anesthesiologist told CBS News that, over his two weeks in Gaza, he saw single gunshot wounds to kids on a daily basis (he guessed at least 30 total).

One Chicago-based doctor told us, "I thought these kids were in the wrong place at the wrong time, like sadly, some of the kids we treat in Chicago. But after the third or fourth time, I realized it was intentional; bullets were being put in these kids on purpose."

Dr. Perlmutter noted that he saw, for dozens of miles, 18-wheelers parked bumper-to-bumper, their engines off or idling, outside of Gaza. "Food or health care could not get in," he said.

Smith asked, "How many kids are in danger of starvation in Gaza?"

"All of them," he replied. "Absolutely all of them."

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/children-of-gaza/

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Posted

The drone strike in Tel Aviv last week, where an Iranian-supplied drone sneaked through Israeli air defense, is a good example why Israel cannot allow Iran to have nukes. Iran is the nation that seems to feel that its rason d’etre is to fire bombs at Israel, through proxies all around it. 
 
Israel has bombed Iranian nuclear facilities. With the U.S., they have cyber-attacked their research facilities. They have even targeted Iranian physicists (only the good ones) for assassination. 
 

Now, Iran’s ally, Russia, may be helping them get over the finish line in developing nukes. I don’t know what Israel’s next step is, but if you’re shocked by it, you haven’t been paying attention. 

Posted
34 minutes ago, statsman said:

I don’t know what Israel’s next step is, but if you’re shocked by it, you haven’t been paying attention. 

No doubt it likely involves more dead children and expended us bombs. 

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Posted
1 minute ago, Beantown Express 2.0 said:

Are they part of that caravan in Mexico I keep hearing about?

Just good ole Americans concerned about Palestine, but definitely not supportive of Hamas or antisemitic in any way.

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Posted

By far the most annoying and transparent thing the surly Make Israel Great Again crowd does is constantly try to paint everyone who is anti-Zionist as antisemitic. It's annoying because normies won't push back on it because they don't know any better, and transparent because it actually belies their deep-rooted antisemitism that has been grown and tended by shitty Western media outllets for decades which they refuse to recognize.

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Posted
2 hours ago, MC Fresh Breath said:

vandalism totally justifies sniping children, starving a population and you know a genocide. but Hamas!

so you support vandalism?

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Posted (edited)

Vandalism bad. Flag burning, I really don't care. It's a constitutionally protected way to protest your government. 

Edited by mdmost
Posted (edited)
On 7/23/2024 at 7:48 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

I see now we’ve moved on to feeling bad for the Houthis for getting their shit pushed in after fucking around and finding out.

 

On 7/23/2024 at 8:00 PM, 956 Worldwide said:

lol, so much butthurt for the poor Houthi fuel storage facilities. 

 

Woo-hoo! Israel doubles down on crimes against humanity! I've usually thought of you as a little deeper, 956 Worldwide. You're coming across a little war-mongery.

Someone attacked us! Let's go destroy and starve everybody adjacent!

The target:

image.png.442bbeb52e4ef6fa6223ea560d916af2.png

I concur:

On 7/23/2024 at 10:20 PM, Brian Fantana said:

 

Maybe take a lap and a nap, champ, and stop lying about what everyone else is saying. God you're such a fucking pussy about this topic.

 

15 hours ago, Anastasis said:

No doubt it likely involves more dead children and expended us bombs. 

image.png.7b08987765b879f392642cdeec83ee0a.png

Your Aggie is showing. "Oohhhh, look at the butthurt." Very manly.

Israel blows up and kills scores of Palestinians targeting a couple of Hamas leaders. Even had they killed them,

  • The cost to non-combatants was criminally high.
  • How much difference would it make? Sure, kill your enemies, but don't keep touting it as some huge blow to your enemy's capabilities.

The US started using the blowing up of guys like this as a scorecard indicating, "hey, look how good we're doing!" but nothing really changes. Again, kill these vile enemies all you want, just don't use this minor achievement to justify horrendous suffering inflicted on others.

Here, Israel seems to have retalliated out of all proportion. They use famine as a weapon once again. And we claim Israel as a close bossom buddy whom we just have to supply with the weapons they use to inflict famine, homelessness, and displacement on the innocent.

I wonder if Netanyahu is trying to trigger a massive showdown with the Arab world where he can rely on the US to help him win big. He can count on us not allowing Israel to be erased. He abuses that certainty.

Edited by RomaVicta
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Posted
22 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Vandalism bad. Flag burning, I really don't care. It's a constitutionally protected was to protest your government. 

But it's bad PR, so let's send another freighter full of 1000 pound bombs to Israel. The Palestinian civilians are paying for the Hamas outrage, they may as well pay for the flag burning and grafitti outrage as well.

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Posted
1 hour ago, RomaVicta said:

 

 

Woo-hoo! Israel doubles down on crimes against humanity! I've usually thought of you as a little deeper, 956 Worldwide. You're coming across a little war-mongery.

Someone attacked us! Let's go destroy and starve everybody adjacent!

The target:

image.png.442bbeb52e4ef6fa6223ea560d916af2.png

I concur:

 

image.png.7b08987765b879f392642cdeec83ee0a.png

Your Aggie is showing. "Oohhhh, look at the butthurt." Very manly.

Israel blows up and kills scores of Palestinians targeting a couple of Hamas leaders. Even had they killed them,

  • The cost to non-combatants was criminally high.
  • How much difference would it make? Sure, kill your enemies, but don't keep touting it as some huge blow to your enemy's capabilities.

The US started using the blowing up of guys like this as a scorecard indicating, "hey, look how good we're doing!" but nothing really changes. Again, kill these vile enemies all you want, just don't use this minor achievement to justify horrendous suffering inflicted on others.

Here, Israel seems to have retalliated out of all proportion. They use famine as a weapon once again. And we claim Israel as a close bossom buddy whom we just have to supply with the weapons they use to inflict famine, homelessness, and displacement on the innocent.

I wonder if Netanyahu is trying to trigger a massive showdown with the Arab world where he can rely on the US to help him win big. He can count on us not allowing Israel to be erased. He abuses that certainty.

The Houthis (who are not a party to Palestine), launched Iran-made ballistic missiles into Israel.  Those missiles are delivered by sea to the port that got bombed. They won’t be  Israel’s response was exactly proportional and relevant to what the Houthis did and will make it operational more difficult for the Houthis to get more ballistic missiles.

 

image.jpeg.ba01fe06c87d48ebf29ff6fedb6cc00e.jpeg

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Posted
6 minutes ago, 956 Worldwide said:

The Houthis (who are not a party to Palestine), launched Iran-made ballistic missiles into Israel.  Those missiles are delivered by sea to the port that got bombed. They won’t be  Israel’s response was exactly proportional and relevant to what the Houthis did and will make it operational more difficult for the Houthis to get more ballistic missiles.

No shit.

Where are you on the policy of crimes against humanity? Where are you on information one could find in wikipedia on why the port is critical to humane interests?

I don't have a problem understanding why Israel moved and how they (and you) justify their actions. I also understand why the white people of Tulsa decided to wipe out their black community. So?

You seem to be keeping your focus narrow to justify what appears to me to be bloodlust and the thrill of conventional weapons being used. You seem to defend wildly disproportionage responses to attacks on Israel.

A bank robber needed the money to feed a drug habit. Again, so? What about the act and its consequences? 

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Posted

Roma, your analogies are not apt at all. 
 
Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, all of the Iranian clients, are waging a war where civilian deaths are a feature, not a bug. They don’t imbed in populated areas for lack of remote regions for garrisons. They do so because they want the populace to either be a human shield, or sacrificial victims to create global support. 
 
Yes, these are human tragedies. Yes, they are Hamas’, and Hezbollah’s and Houthis’s (and Iran’s) fault. 
 
On October 7, 2023, Hamas showed Israel what being their neighbor entailed. Claims that there is any other way to deal with them, of putting the mad dog down while avoiding civilian casualties, while Hamas’ strategy is to have lots of civilian casualties, are specious. 
 
Israel actually is trying to minimize civilian casualties, even though they will never get credit for it. Hamas is the side that sees civilian casualties as a feature, not a bug, of their strategy. 

Posted
10 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

 

Yes, we all agree. Destruction of property is not constitutionally protected speech. I don't know whether any were arrested for vandalism, but hopefully so.

Now, let's talk about what most are protesting (fuck the Hamas supporters):

  • 50+ year illegal occupation of the West Bank (30+ years of Gaza) and the subjugation of 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank.
  • Illegal theft of land and displacement of Palestinians into ghettos as settlers colonize stolen land (This is called ethnic cleansing).
  • 20-year blockade on Gaza, stunting the economic, social, and political growth of 2 million Palestinians.
  • 10 years of Netanyahu politically and financially supporting a terrorist organization to keep Palestinians divided.
  • That same terrorist organization then turned around and murdered 1,200 of Bibi's own people.
  • Righteous response becoming overkill, resulting in the deaths of 39,000+ Palestinians since October.
  • Continued refusal of ceasefire to bring remaining hostages home as Palestinians starve.
  • Continued refusal to recognize the right of a Palestinian state to exist.
  • Invited to speak in front of Congress as prosecutors for ICC seek arrest warrant for war crimes fast on the heels of ICJ declaring occupation of West Bank illegal.

You know, I feel pretty comfortable that a displeasure with Israel's actions is well within the mainstream.

 image.thumb.png.397c26af1393e1b1009eb9d5b68233fe.png

https://news.gallup.com/poll/642695/majority-disapprove-israeli-action-gaza.aspx

 

@Macklemore I see you name-checked me in the protest thread. If you care to address any of the points above, discussing the situation in the "free speech" portion of this site would be much more appropriate since this is essentially a cloak room discussion.

I'm not sure why you singled me out. You can search my posting history, and you'll never find a single post in which I justify or excuse political violence or vandalism during protests. In fact, I condemn it. Moreover, I've repeatedly said the protestors' actions have been counterproductive overall, but I still support their right to peacefully protest. Pretty sure that's a standard, middle-of-the-road stance.

Come to think of it, though, I don't believe I've ever seen your response to the violent attempted coup instigated by your favorite disgraced former president.

 

Posted (edited)

Bolverk, Didn’t Israel get the West Bank and Gaza after fighting back an unprovoked invasion? Is that wrong? How is that an illegal occupation? Whose laws?

Edited by statsman
Posted (edited)
On 7/25/2024 at 9:53 AM, statsman said:

Roma, your analogies are not apt at all. 
 
Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthis, all of the Iranian clients, are waging a war where civilian deaths are a feature, not a bug. They don’t imbed in populated areas for lack of remote regions for garrisons. They do so because they want the populace to either be a human shield, or sacrificial victims to create global support. 
 
Yes, these are human tragedies. Yes, they are Hamas’, and Hezbollah’s and Houthis’s (and Iran’s) fault. 
 
On October 7, 2023, Hamas showed Israel what being their neighbor entailed. Claims that there is any other way to deal with them, of putting the mad dog down while avoiding civilian casualties, while Hamas’ strategy is to have lots of civilian casualties, are specious. 
 
Israel actually is trying to minimize civilian casualties, even though they will never get credit for it. Hamas is the side that sees civilian casualties as a feature, not a bug, of their strategy. 

You think they killed a lot of Houthi combatants when the Israelis blew up a harbor that is a main lifeline to everybody there?

I will be insulted the next time someone presumes to tell me things that are obvious. Your response suggests that I don't understand how terrorists operate. Your response seems to indicate that I'm unaware of how this was started. You condescendingly accept that there are human tragedies but that I need to understand whose fault they are as though the people actually dropping the bombs, firing the tank shells, and pulling the triggers are absolved.

You also, naively state that Israel is "actually is trying to minimize civilian casualties." Really? Using 2000 pound bombs (until we really stood up to them and said that was too big) then 1000 pound bombs to obliterate neighborhoods and displace just about everybody in Gaza is the ticket for "minimizing civilian casualties?" 

All you have to prove that Israel is being careful are the statements of the war criminal executing the campaign. I suggest you use your eyes.

image.png.17aa2c61bd7590b4ed7ca06ecc5242b3.png

image.png.ae7dfbeb83b72d872d2cb2be32a7a6a2.pngimage.png.b5db4d71f256190d56dcf9eee385b7f7.png

image.png.eea9d7009cbb429d244e58caaebb08da.png

Thank goodness Israel is looking out for civilians. Imagine what it would look like if they were conducting a merciless and brutal campaign. 

I haven't even gotten into their closing of supply portals, shooting journalists, and having cruelty parties with captives.

A bloody response to the hideous attacks of last October was justified and expected. This is something else.

Please don't wrap yourself in a smug assumption that you have clearer ideas of all of this because you can point to a terrrible provocation and the statements of a monster. Just look. Just ask yourself, do I want my name associated with this?

I surely don't.

Edited by RomaVicta
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Posted
14 minutes ago, statsman said:

Bolverk, Didn’t Israel get the West Bank and Gaza after fighting back an unprovoked invasion? Is that wrong? How is that an illegal occupation? Whose laws?

Israel attacked first in 1967.

Not only is Israel a member of the United Nations, it is a creation of the UN. The UN Charter, which Israel signed, prohibits the acquisition of territory by force. The International Court of Justice has stated the Israeli occupation of Palestinian territory is illegal under international law.

Posted
56 minutes ago, RomaVicta said:

No shit.

Where are you on the policy of crimes against humanity? Where are you on information one could find in wikipedia on why the port is critical to humane interests?

I don't have a problem understanding why Israel moved and how they (and you) justify their actions. I also understand why the white people of Tulsa decided to wipe out their black community. So?

You seem to be keeping your focus narrow to justify what appears to me to be bloodlust and the thrill of conventional weapons being used. You seem to defend wildly disproportionage responses to attacks on Israel.

A bank robber needed the money to feed a drug habit. Again, so? What about the act and its consequences? 

I think that there’s a long history of terror organizations and governments mobilizing all of their assets and infrastructure in the service of attacking others, and then claiming that any potential response to their own aggression is unjustified.

The Houthis unloaded Iranian ballistic missiles and fired them at THE FUCKING U.S. EMBASSY in a country over 1,000 miles away, killing civilians.  In response, Israel bombed the cranes and docks so that there wouldn’t be more Iranian ballistic missiles unloaded there.

You are comparing that to the Tulsa massacre? That’s pure “anti-Zionist” brain rot.  The Houthis are not fighting for civil rights and the cranes and port facilities they use to unload ballistic missiles are not segregated Black neighborhoods. 

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Posted
14 hours ago, Brian Fantana said:

By far the most annoying and transparent thing the surly Make Israel Great Again crowd does is constantly try to paint everyone who is anti-Zionist as antisemitic. 

No one is painting anything, but everyone at that rally from the video absolutely supports terrorism and is antisemitic.  I'm sure there were some very fine people elsewhere, but in that particular video, there were no boos, no one stopping it.  Only cheers or silent approval.  Can only address the people there, but there was no separation from Hamas for the people there.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Israel attacked first in 1967.

Israel stated that they would view the closing of the strait as an act of war. Egypt massed its military on the border, and closed the strait. 
 
I am unpersuaded by your argument. 

Edited by statsman
Posted
1 minute ago, statsman said:

Israel stated that they would view the closing of the strait as an act of war. Egypt massed its military on the border, and closed the strait. 
 
I am unpersuaded by your argument. 

Until shots are fired, war is never a guarantee. Besides, the last time I checked a map, the West Bank isn't Egypt, which is at peace with Israel. The last time I checked, the Palestinian Authority recognized Israel's right to exist. When will Israel recognize the right of Palestine to exist?

I'm guessing you must also be a Putin apologist. You know, the guy who keeps talking about how Ukraine has no right to exist and that it's all really just historically Russian territory anyway.

Posted
7 minutes ago, Don Johnson said:

No one is painting anything, but everyone at that rally from the video absolutely supports terrorism and is antisemitic.  I'm sure there were some very fine people elsewhere, but in that particular video, there were no boos, no one stopping it.  Only cheers or silent approval.  Can only address the people there, but there was no separation from Hamas for the people there.

I agree, fuck them. I doubt you'll find disagreement here on Surly.

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