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2020 Baseball Cheaters vs the World Thread of Hate

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On 2/21/2020 at 1:48 PM, Mez2 said:

Facing yu dervish twice helped us

Especially since you were stealing his signs. 

 

 

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On 2/21/2020 at 3:49 PM, runthebone said:

Yes, I am looking forward to non-Astros fans joining when their team's method of stealing signs electronically is revealed.

You should definitely do this. That'll show em!

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Who?

I mean, I know the Keuchel dude, but why is a minor leaguer threatening the Astros?

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22 minutes ago, Iceman said:

Who?

I mean, I know the Keuchel dude, but why is a minor leaguer threatening the Astros?

You mean the guy who won the AL batting title last season?

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There are at least seven lawsuits filed against the Houston Astros in the wake of the sign-stealing scandal, and until late Friday the team had not legally responded. Given the scorn that rained down earlier this month on Astros players and owner Jim Crane for seemingly downplaying the cheating, the club’s legal counter-arguments are also likely to garner little affection outside of Houston.

The Astros’ initial legal response came in a lawsuit first filed last month by daily fantasy sports (DFS) players who claim the cheating corrupted their paid games. The 26-page Astros response states, among other arguments, that cheating is part of sports, and notes the team hit better on the road than at home in the infamous Minute Maid Park trash can year of 2017.

“It is well established…that attendees or viewers at sporting events have no express or implied right to an event free of penalties, undisclosed injuries, rules violations, cheating, or similar conduct, and claims asserting such a right have been repeatedly dismissed,” the team’s legal brief said. “Even accepting the Complaint’s allegations as true, the alleged sign-stealing does not in itself render false any statement about the team’s strengths and successes. 

“If there is any implied understanding of fans, it is that rule infractions will occur during the games,” the team argued. 

The Astros’ legal response also made a seeming effort to minimize how important a role the sign-stealing scheme played in the team’s World Series success.

“Plaintiff’s allegations that DraftKings users were disadvantaged by the Astros ‘not performing as well as expected in away games… as a result of not having access to the Trash Can Scheme or Replay Room Scheme,’ do not reflect publicly available information concerning the Astros player statistics,” the team said. “In 2017, for example, the Astros scored 395 runs at home (4.88 runs per game), while scoring 501 runs on the road (6.19 runs per game). In addition, the Astros hit 115 home runs while at home, yet were able to hit 123 home runs on the road. Furthermore, the Astros’ batting average improved from .279 at home to .284 on the road.”

The Astros’ response in New York federal court followed replies late Friday from MLB and the Boston Red Sox, which are also named in the lawsuit. The three entities filed separate responses using different attorneys (MLB is planning a report soon on alleged cheating by the Red Sox during their 2018 World Series campaign).

Like the Astros, MLB and the Red Sox in their legal responses contend cheating is part of the game.

“Rules violations — large and small, intentional and unintentional, technical and game-changing — are a never-ending source of sports television, talk radio, web and elevator commentary by sports pundits and fans alike,” MLB wrote. “And fans’ general awareness of the potential for infractions is underscored in this case by the fact that clubs were publicly disciplined for electronic sign-stealing violations during the 2017 regular season.”

The DFS plaintiffs claim statements made by the teams touting their skills is legal fraud. But the Red Sox termed such comments by club officials as “puffery.”

“(E)ven if those statements did address the causes of the team’s performance, it is clear on their face that, as a matter of law, they constitute the sort of vague, generic, opinion-based puffery that uniformly has been held inactionable as fraud,” the Red Sox wrote. 

All three defendants cited the Third Circuit Court of Appeals 2010 Spygate decision when a Jets fan sued in the wake of the New England Patriots videotaping scandal. The court ruled that fans cannot sue based on alleged cheating.

“In Mayer v. Belichick, 605 F.3d 223, 230 (3d Cir. 2010), a class action brought by an aggrieved New York Jets season ticket holder against the New England Patriots and the NFL based on the Patriots’ surreptitious use of videotape to capture their opponents’ signals, the court concluded that the plaintiff class did not have a cognizable legal interest in disclosure of anything about the methods of game play, even where they were in violation of NFL rules,” the Red Sox wrote.

The teams and MLB also cited a similar fan lawsuit in boxing. The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals last year dismissed a lawsuit brought by consumers against Manny Pacquiao and Floyd Mayweather for concealing that Pacquiao was injured before their fight that Mayweather easily won.

In the DFS cases (there are two separate yet similar lawsuits), the three baseball defendants each contend the fantasy players are tenuously linked to the clubs, and thereby don’t have legal standing. In other words, it’s another way of saying the cheating scandal is none of their legal business.

The other lawsuits targeting the Astros are filed by plaintiffs seemingly not as legally tenuous as DFS contestants. In Texas state court there are three separate cases brought by Astros season-ticket holders. Given the arguments made in the DFS cases, the Astros are likely to contend that fans, even if they are season-ticket holders, don’t have the legal standing to sue and that they already knew rules infractions are bread and butter matters in sports.

“So they are going to say, there’s no implied promise not to cheat,” said Bob Hilliard, the attorney for two season ticket holders suing in separate cases. “They say, ‘Yeah we cheated. So what?'”

Perhaps the most notable lawsuit is one filed by former MLB pitcher Mike Bolsinger, who claims he lost his job due to the Astros cheating. That case is filed in California state court. As the only non-fan lawsuit, so far, the team can’t rely on the Spygate and Mayweather fan litigant precedents. But the team in arguing in the DFS litigation that it did better on the road than at home, where the cheating occurred, perhaps is a glimpse at a defense.

“Finally, their on-base slugging percentage improved from .812 at home to .834 on the road,” the team wrote in the response to the DFS lawsuit. “Because the Astros player performance statistics form the basis of…(the) allegations, these publicly available statistics are incorporated by reference into the Complaint and may be considered on a motion to dismiss.”

 

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2 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

You mean the guy who won the AL batting title last season?

For which team again?

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15 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

You mean the guy who won the AL batting title last season?

Image result for tim anderson

Yeah but can he do it without that obvious buzzer over his right shoulder smh

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7 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

...4efd9905127f08754035f86f64a101f3.jpg

Like those limp dick White Sox ever had a chance. Can’t wait to see which Astro steps up and pounds these loudmouth do nothings.

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26 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Image result for tim anderson

Yeah but can he do it without that obvious buzzer over his right shoulder smh

How the fuck do you know, he could of had a buzzer up his ass for all you know.

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I don’t get it.  Are we supposed to be hand wringing because Astros opponents are gonna try this time?

 

LOLz.  That’s what should always be expected of your opponents.

The biggest regret is that the Reds aren’t on the slate for a NL rules game.  Would LOVE to have mouthy boy Bauer having to face Astros pitchers.

Edited by Iceman

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9 hours ago, immortal13 said:

Especially since you were stealing his signs. 

 

 

Yup, just like the Nats stole the sign that won them the world series. I am sure the guy swinging the bat had not a fucking thing to do with hitting the foul pole. 

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11 minutes ago, Alien Octopus said:

Yup, just like the Nats stole the sign that won them the world series. I am sure the guy swinging the bat had not a fucking thing to do with hitting the foul pole. 

Beltran's niece told me that the Nationals actually had a device implanted in the ball and someone (Davey Martinez??) controlled the flight of that hit off of Kendrick's bat.  I take no pleasure in reporting this, but I regret to inform the baseball community that I have done extensive analysis (>5 mins) of the physics of the trajectory of that home run, and the math confirms the allegation.  The title MUST BE STRIPPED.  @jomboy @jeffpassan @god  

Edited by Chuckie Finster

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5 minutes ago, Chuckie Finster said:

Beltran's niece told me that the Nationals actually had a device implanted in the ball and someone (Davey Martinez??) controlled the flight of that hit off of Kendrick's bat.  I take no pride in reporting this, but I regret to inform the baseball community that I have done extensive analysis (>5 mins) of the physics of the trajectory of that home run, and the math confirms the allegation.  The title MUST BE STRIPPED.  @jomboy @jeffpassan @god  

Your cunt is bleeding.

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1 hour ago, Iceman said:

I don’t get it.  Are we supposed to be hand wringing because Astros opponents are gonna try this time?

 

LOLz.  That’s what should always be expected of your opponents.

Interesting take.  Would be more appropriate in the Astros thread where you and I both have seen numerous similar comments such as " I can't think of a team with more motivation to win this year than the Houston Astros," and "The more they attack the Astros and call them out the more confident it makes me this team will play the entire season with a chip on their shoulder. Every team need something to fuel them over 162 games plus the playoffs and this is it."

 

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17 minutes ago, Beau Vine said:

Interesting take.  Would be more appropriate in the Astros thread where you and I both have seen numerous similar comments such as " I can't think of a team with more motivation to win this year than the Houston Astros," and "The more they attack the Astros and call them out the more confident it makes me this team will play the entire season with a chip on their shoulder. Every team need something to fuel them over 162 games plus the playoffs and this is it."

 

The problem for the Astros is that this may fuel them for a couple of months but after awhile it will get exhausting.  They will have to fight back for 162 games or at least 81 road games.  Other teams and fans only have to do it for a handful of games.  I see it wearing the Astros down more than fueling them to a championship.

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15 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:


Lol imagine being in this climate and whining that you can’t bash the Astros enough.

That's a mischaracterization of my post but I get you are a little sensitive right now.

Edited by pacman

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9 minutes ago, txhorns said:

The problem for the Astros is that this may fuel them for a couple of months but after awhile it will get exhausting.  They will have to fight back for 162 games or at least 81 road games.  Other teams and fans only have to do it for a handful of games.  I see it wearing the Astros down more than fueling them to a championship.

I still feel this all preseason bravado and it all dies down quickly. Naturally, I am beginning to feep more and more wrong about this as the Astro fans continue to double down and incite other fanbases.

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3 minutes ago, pacman said:

I still feel this all preseason bravado and it all dies down quickly. Naturally, I am beginning to feep more and more wrong about this as the Astro fans continue to double down and incite other fanbases.

It's going to die down eventually but the first time the Astros visit a new team this year they will get heckled pretty heavily.

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2 hours ago, Beau Vine said:

You mean the guy who won the AL batting title last season?

On the whole, Astros fans are the least knowledgeable about baseball of all the fanbases out there. The vast majority aren’t fans of the sport and have only been following the team itself for 4 years. Minute Maid will go back to being an empty wasteland in a couple years when the Astros run of competitiveness is over.

And say what you will about me, there’s a huge difference between not knowing who Tim Anderson is and not knowing who Adam Duvall (does he even play anymore?) is.

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10 minutes ago, Helobious said:

On the whole, Astros fans are the least knowledgeable about baseball of all the fanbases out there. The vast majority aren’t fans of the sport and have only been following the team itself for 4 years. Minute Maid will go back to being an empty wasteland in a couple years when the Astros run of competitiveness is over.

And say what you will about me, there’s a huge difference between not knowing who Tim Anderson is and not knowing who Adam Duvall (does he even play anymore?) is.

link?

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3 hours ago, Iceman said:

Who?

I mean, I know the Keuchel dude, but why is a minor leaguer threatening the Astros?

Minor leaguer? Lmao.

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1 hour ago, txhorns said:

The problem for the Astros is that this may fuel them for a couple of months but after awhile it will get exhausting.  They will have to fight back for 162 games or at least 81 road games.  Other teams and fans only have to do it for a handful of games.  I see it wearing the Astros down more than fueling them to a championship.

Assuming they give a fuck about what hecklers say.I imagine Springer cares more about his performance on his walk year.

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41 minutes ago, Helobious said:

On the whole, Astros fans are the least knowledgeable about baseball of all the fanbases out there. The vast majority aren’t fans of the sport and have only been following the team itself for 4 years. Minute Maid will go back to being an empty wasteland in a couple years when the Astros run of competitiveness is over.

And say what you will about me, there’s a huge difference between not knowing who Tim Anderson is and not knowing who Adam Duvall (does he even play anymore?) is.

Least knowledgeable fanbase, that is a pretty broad stroke. I think that I know plenty of Astros fans that know about baseball. I also know that most people who are baseball fans think they know more than anyone else, so I’ll take your nonsense with a grain of salt. I grew up and went to a shit load of games with one of the current Astros beat writers. He is an Astros fan and I am sure when he is signing his book about baseball for you he could tell you, you don’t know shit. Me I’ll just tell you that ankle biters are aggy.

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2 hours ago, Helobious said:

On the whole, Astros fans are the least knowledgeable about baseball of all the fanbases out there. The vast majority aren’t fans of the sport and have only been following the team itself for 4 years. Minute Maid will go back to being an empty wasteland in a couple years when the Astros run of competitiveness is over.

And say what you will about me, there’s a huge difference between not knowing who Tim Anderson is and not knowing who Adam Duvall (does he even play anymore?) is.

I've been a lifelong baseball fan. The only reason I don't participate in baseball talk on this board is because baseball fans are the worst, closely followed by college football fans. I only have enough energy to argue with one or the other and I choose college football. It would be exhausting beyond belief to spend my time arguing about both.

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2 hours ago, Helobious said:

On the whole, Astros fans are the least knowledgeable about baseball of all the fanbases out there. The vast majority aren’t fans of the sport and have only been following the team itself for 4 years. Minute Maid will go back to being an empty wasteland in a couple years when the Astros run of competitiveness is over.

And say what you will about me, there’s a huge difference between not knowing who Tim Anderson is and not knowing who Adam Duvall (does he even play anymore?) is.

You do start threads with stupid douchebag titles 

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2 hours ago, Helobious said:

On the whole, Astros fans are the least knowledgeable about baseball of all the fanbases out there. The vast majority aren’t fans of the sport and have only been following the team itself for 4 years. Minute Maid will go back to being an empty wasteland in a couple years when the Astros run of competitiveness is over.

And say what you will about me, there’s a huge difference between not knowing who Tim Anderson is and not knowing who Adam Duvall (does he even play anymore?) is.

suck my dick GIF

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2 hours ago, Helobious said:

On the whole, Astros fans are the least knowledgeable about baseball of all the fanbases out there. The vast majority aren’t fans of the sport and have only been following the team itself for 4 years. Minute Maid will go back to being an empty wasteland in a couple years when the Astros run of competitiveness is over.

And say what you will about me, there’s a huge difference between not knowing who Tim Anderson is and not knowing who Adam Duvall (does he even play anymore?) is.

You don’t believe in WAR and think Giancarlo Stanton sucks. Pretty bold move to pretend you’re somehow a baseball expert.

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Astros fans definitely aren't the best.  They like to pick specific players to boo for years for stupid reasons and love starting the wave, especially when the other team is batting.  I doubt they're the least knowledgeable though.

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4 minutes ago, WBT said:

Astros fans definitely aren't the best.  They like to pick specific players to boo for years for stupid reasons and love starting the wave, especially when the other team is batting.  I doubt they're the least knowledgeable though.

I'd like to think we were ahead of the curve on Beltran.

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3 hours ago, Helobious said:

On the whole, Astros fans are the least knowledgeable about baseball of all the fanbases out there. The vast majority aren’t fans of the sport and have only been following the team itself for 4 years. Minute Maid will go back to being an empty wasteland in a couple years when the Astros run of competitiveness is over.

And say what you will about me, there’s a huge difference between not knowing who Tim Anderson is and not knowing who Adam Duvall (does he even play anymore?) is.

LOL. this coming from Harlingen Helo. You had Astros fans refute your stupid claim that Giancarlo Stanton sucks and you're calling us dumb? 

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4 hours ago, txhorns said:

The problem for the Astros is that this may fuel them for a couple of months but after awhile it will get exhausting.  They will have to fight back for 162 games or at least 81 road games.  Other teams and fans only have to do it for a handful of games.  I see it wearing the Astros down more than fueling them to a championship.

Nah.  Its only gonna be a big deal in the opening and closing months.  In the heart of the season, most of the shit will have died down.  The Astros will face hecklers on the road, but that really doesn't make a difference.  The Astros have been one of the top road draws for a couple years.  Does it make a difference whether drunk road fans are calling Altuve a cheater instead of insulting his mom?

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1 hour ago, Iconoclast Texan said:

LOL. this coming from Harlingen Helo. You had Astros fans refute your stupid claim that Giancarlo Stanton sucks and you're calling us dumb? 

Yes, I’m calling you dumb. I expect nothing else from Iranian Icono.

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2 hours ago, Chuckie Finster said:

I'd like to think we were ahead of the curve on Beltran.

Sure you were because you probably knew the curve was coming

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17 minutes ago, immortal13 said:

Sure you were because you probably knew the curve was coming

That didn’t help the Yankees. Or Cody Bellinger.

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2 hours ago, Vic Mackey said:

Hmmmm

'87394969_2538266422940872_60173495722615

Man that's crazy.

I mean it's not true, but it's crazy. Didn't even have to go to the second inning to find one.

 

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