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Evangelical Christians


Washpark

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10 hours ago, NameAlreadyInUse said:

I hope you are right. And I don’t belong to the church anymore, don’t know this Greear guy from a hole in the wall. I’m saying that I’ve seen enough from the SBC in the past not to trust they are going to change until I actually see real change. Here’s hoping. 

To be clear, I don't expect a huge change either. But it does seem like they are breaking away from the fundamentalists controlling the convention and by their declarations, are resigning as the Republican mouth piece.

These were the guys that issued a convoluted justification for war for Bush when every other major Christian denomination, including the Pope, said preemptive war is unjustified. They've been supportive of the Trump administration, now if they start shutting their trap publicly, that will be huge step forward.

 

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On 6/15/2018 at 6:18 PM, Bozo_Casanova said:

I mean, sure. That seems like the essence of what it means to be Omnipotent. Or, put another way, what’s a universe? Serious question.

A universe or world in modal logic is defined in a number of ways:  an independent set of logically consistent rules that can be actualized, a collection of entities & substances that can coexist without contradiction, or "a collection of compossibles," etc.  In other words, "a world is a kind of collection of things that God could bring into existence."  For example, a universe like ours could exist in which our solar system only has 6 planets, or with the earth having two moons, or with the gravitational constant slightly different, or in which you or I do not exist.  These are all possible worlds.  But there cannot be a world in which the earth simultaneously has two moons and also does not have two moons, "for not even God can bring into existence a world in which there is some contradiction among its members or their properties."  This subject was first discussed in rigorous detail by Leibniz (quotes from this linked article).  

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/leibniz-modal/

 

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Defined? I think a better word is "described". But thank you. That being said - the notion of an omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, infinite God inherently asserts either 1) the circumvention or suspension of consistent rules or 2) an existence outside of/above them altogether. Once you take that on faith, things that defy description or definition such as a black white raven or an earth that simultaneously has one and two moons stops being a question of observable fact and more just an exercise in thinking about the possible.

 

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The optimist in me says that the likes of Bannon, Miller and Gorka have overplayed their hands here with the immigrant kids thing. I don't think any of them really understand Evangelicals -- two of them are Catholics and one of them is Jewish. Bannon is kinda sorta Southern, but Irish Catholic Southern. Yeah, there is the Westboro crowd, and many more who are not quite as deranged, but losing the Southern Baptist Convention is huge. 

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33 minutes ago, Bozo_Casanova said:

Defined? I think a better word is "described". But thank you. That being said - the notion of an omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, infinite God inherently asserts either 1) the circumvention or suspension of consistent rules or 2) an existence outside of/above them altogether. Once you take that on faith, things that defy description or definition such as a black white raven or an earth that simultaneously has one and two moons stops being a question of observable fact and more just an exercise in thinking about the possible.

 

I’m not following the point on description vs definition.  Provide a format that meets your standard of a proper definition and I’ll give it in that form. 

Regarding the two options on what must follow from the existence of an omnipotent being, I disagree and don’t see why that assertion should be accepted.  But even if it is we can just go with option (2) and claim that even if God exists outside any rules, then it doesn’t follow that any universe does and it is still the case that all possible worlds must be consistent.  So I do not see how your premise gets around consistency. 

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Obviously, Likud and Islamic Terrorists have no power to impose anything. 
There was a time when then entire country was christian. As in 100%, every single person, everybody loddy doddy. Naturally, given this hegemonic advantage, these evangelicals, when given the opportunity to write a constitution, wrote into it's first amendment "freedom of religion". Not freedom to practice christianity. Freedom for all religions of any kind. Total freedom.
Liberals are out of their minds. Getting Roseanne fired was hatefulness, not kindness. If a jewish baker doesn't want to bake a Nazi cake, they shouldn't have their entire life destroyed. If a muslim baker doesn't want to make a "Mohammed was a pedophile" cake, they shouldn't have their life destroyed. If you think this you are literally out of your mind. You stand for hate, not love. You are wrong and you should feel bad.
The human heart cries out for God. And when people turn away, they simply create new false idols. The most common one is government, and it's why people cling with such passionate irrationality to their crazy beliefs.
 


Nonsense the government is a false idol. That’s insane. The secular world is full of necessary government. The most prosperous nations in the history of the world provide welfare for their citizens. The US is at the bottom of that list for healthcare. Education is necessarily public and requires the government to tax and spend. Wanting all people to have equal protection is an ideal worth fighting for. Demanding humane prison and immigration systems and reforms is not some sort of perverse worship of a false god, it’s common sense and the right thing to do. Get outta here with that false idol mumbo jumbo.
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Nonsense the government is a false idol. That’s insane. The secular world is full of necessary government.

Of course it is. And nobody argues that we should not have border control, highways, national defense, or a police force. The areas under discussion are things like "should the government be your health care provider, which is by no means "necessary".

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The most prosperous nations in the history of the world provide welfare for their citizens.

Apparently you don't realize that our government spends trillions of welfare every year. You should maybe go read about it.

In all seriousness, these countries are failing. They failing culturally, they are going bankrupt, and it is happening now. They serve as your Potemkin Village, but there are not a good role model. 

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The US is at the bottom of that list for healthcare.

This is just anti-American propaganda. You're better than that. 

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Education is necessarily public and requires the government to tax and spend.

As I previously referenced, the public debate is not about whether kids get educated, it is about whether we should keep kids locked into failing schools because government monopoly. The Democrat position is completely inhumane. They are cruelly indifferent to the misery they are inflicting on children.

You just completely undermined your pretense that you are the only one who cares about actual people and everyone is just a mouth breathing knuckle dragger.

Quote

Wanting all people to have equal protection is an ideal worth fighting for.

Now you are a small government conservative like me. I'm impressed. Again, I would reference the Constitution, which I believe in quite strongly. You should read it, it's been the law of the land for many years.

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Demanding humane prison and immigration systems and reforms is not some sort of perverse worship of a false god, it’s common sense and the right thing to do.

I can't even begin to understand what the disagreement is here. Your just virtue signaling. Everyone has to be your enemy because you're the hero of the drama playing out inside your head.

I'm sorry Tropheus but you are the perfect example of what I am talking about.

 

nw_052112_domcvr.jpg

Edited by Thetexashammer
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4 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Of course it is. And nobody argues that we should not have border control, highways, national defense, or a police force. The areas under discussion are things like "should the government be your health care provider, which is by no means "necessary".

Apparently you don't realize that our government spends trillions of welfare every year. You should maybe go read about it.

In all seriousness, these countries are failing. They failing culturally, they are going bankrupt, and it is happening now. They serve as your Potemkin Village, but there are not a good role model. 

This is just anti-American propaganda. You're better than that. 

As I previously referenced, the public debate is not about whether kids get educated, it is about whether we should keep kids locked into failing schools because government monopoly. The Democrat position is completely inhumane. They are cruelly indifferent to the misery they are inflicting on children.

You just completely undermined your pretense that you are the only one who cares about actual people and everyone is just a mouth breathing knuckle dragger.

Now you are a small government conservative like me. I'm impressed. Again, I would reference the Constitution, which I believe in quite strongly. You should read it, it's been the law of the land for many years.

I can't even begin to understand what the disagreement is here. Your just virtue signaling. Everyone has to be your enemy because you're the hero of the drama playing out inside your head.

I'm sorry Tropheus but you are the perfect example of what I am talking about.

 

nw_052112_domcvr.jpg

You're a fucking moron and you don't believe in shit you fucking pussy.

Edited by Brian Fantana
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23 hours ago, Rex Kramer said:

The pastoral prayer and sermon today were all about the separated border children, and helping the oppressed. It would probably shock 90% in this forum.

I don't find it shocking at all - you go to a United Methodist church and the UMC has been pretty clear about their message on this one.

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2 hours ago, sidis said:

so can we expect to see you leaving the inside of 610...headed to the border to volunteer to help these people?

No. I don’t live in Houston. 

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On 6/17/2018 at 10:33 AM, Rex Kramer said:

The pastoral prayer and sermon today were all about the separated border children, and helping the oppressed. It would probably shock 90% in this forum. 

Happy Father’s Day to you dads. 

Look at you, bragging about some shit y'all are supposed to do.

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Not bragging. Merely stating. I am proud that that is the denomination’s take. What is occurring shouldn’t be and our reaction to it should not fall down party lines. 

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18 hours ago, Thetexashammer said:

Of course it is. And nobody argues that we should not have border control, highways, national defense, or a police force. The areas under discussion are things like "should the government be your health care provider, which is by no means "necessary".

Apparently you don't realize that our government spends trillions of welfare every year. You should maybe go read about it.

In all seriousness, these countries are failing. They failing culturally, they are going bankrupt, and it is happening now. They serve as your Potemkin Village, but there are not a good role model. 

This is just anti-American propaganda. You're better than that. 

As I previously referenced, the public debate is not about whether kids get educated, it is about whether we should keep kids locked into failing schools because government monopoly. The Democrat position is completely inhumane. They are cruelly indifferent to the misery they are inflicting on children.

You just completely undermined your pretense that you are the only one who cares about actual people and everyone is just a mouth breathing knuckle dragger.

Now you are a small government conservative like me. I'm impressed. Again, I would reference the Constitution, which I believe in quite strongly. You should read it, it's been the law of the land for many years.

I can't even begin to understand what the disagreement is here. Your just virtue signaling. Everyone has to be your enemy because you're the hero of the drama playing out inside your head.

I'm sorry Tropheus but you are the perfect example of what I am talking about.

 

nw_052112_domcvr.jpg

thats a whole bunch of words and pics to say nothing. two posts in a row of nothing too. 

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In age of Trump, evangelicals back self-styled top U.S. pimp

Evangelicals warned against Antichrist for decades. So when he shows up they vote for him. 

He styles himself as America's best-known pimp, a strip-club owner who runs multiple brothels and looks set to win a seat as a Republican in the Nevada legislature with the blessing of many conservative Christian voters. 

Meet Dennis Hof, whose political rise reflects fundamental changes in electoral norms that have roiled the Republican Party and upended American politics during the era of President Donald Trump. 

“This really is the Trump movement,” Hof, 71, told Reuters in an interview at Moonlite BunnyRanch, his brothel near Carson City in northern Nevada that was featured on the HBO reality television series "Cathouse." 

“People will set aside for a moment their moral beliefs, their religious beliefs, to get somebody that is honest in office," he said. "Trump is the trailblazer, he is the Christopher Columbus of honest politics." . . .

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/age-trump-evangelicals-back-self-styled-top-u-112721399.html 
 

 

 

 

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Texas Republican Party doubled down on their “Biblical” views recently. Easy to sum up... God hates fags and trannies, and so do we.

Politicizing the Gospel might be the most heinous thing to happen in our country in my lifetime. Believe or don’t but if you do, stick the the red letter text in the New Testament, we will all be better for it.

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It's funny to me that these same opinions do not apply to Islam when negotiating issues in the middle east.  In short, they dont compromise.  

We aren’t middle easterners. We are outsiders negotiating with them. This country is ours and we are letting one party turn into the Christian version. Two different examples, one we control and one we don’t. What are we going to do about the one we do control?
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12 hours ago, troph said:

Texas Republican Party doubled down on their “Biblical” views recently. Easy to sum up... God hates fags and trannies, and so do we.

Politicizing the Gospel might be the most heinous thing to happen in our country in my lifetime. Believe or don’t but if you do, stick the the red letter text in the New Testament, we will all be better for it.

"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."

This is nothing new. It's been going on for hundreds of years.

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"You can safely assume you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do."
This is nothing new. It's been going on for hundreds of years.


Solid phrase.

But it’s longer and more specific than ever before. Used to be 1-2 then 3-4 now it’s 2 dozen provisions.
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2 hours ago, ScottishHorn said:

It's funny because Pelosi defended MS-13

False

Spoiler

At a May 17 press conference, the day after Trump’s "animals" comment, Pelosi said"calling people animals is not a good thing" and defended "undocumented immigrants." She did not mention MS-13 gang members.

Pelosi said "we're all God's children" and spoke about "a spark of divinity in every person on Earth."

"And so when the president of the United States says about undocumented immigrants, ‘These aren't people. These are animals,’ you have to wonder, does he not believe in the spark of divinity, the dignity and worth of every person? ‘These are not people. These are animals.’ The president of the United States," Pelosi said.

White House spokesman Steven Cheung said in an emailed statement, "Pelosi either is peddling an out-of-context quote that mainstream media outlets have corrected or retracted (AP and CNN), or defending MS-13 gang members whose motto is rape, control, and kill."

The White House said the "animals" term is language Trump has used before when talking about MS-13 gang members.

Still, Pelosi did not defend MS-13 gang members or come out in their favor, as Trump claimed. She centered her comments on "undocumented immigrants" and rebuked using the word "animals" to refer to people.

Our ruling

Trump said Pelosi "came out in favor of MS-13."

Trump’s claim is based on Pelosi’s criticism of Trump for using the word "animals" during an immigration meeting with California officials. Trump used that term after a sheriff spoke about MS-13 gang members.

A day after Trump’s comment, Pelosi said "calling people animals is not a good thing" and defended "undocumented immigrants." Pelosi did not mention MS-13 gang members in her comments.

While Trump blasted media reports and others for missing the context of his remarks, he did just that with Pelosi’s comment. We rate it False.

 

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11 hours ago, troph said:


We aren’t middle easterners. We are outsiders negotiating with them. This country is ours and we are letting one party turn into the Christian version. Two different examples, one we control and one we don’t. What are we going to do about the one we do control?

I was making a comment about Goldwaters perception of evangelicals as he perceives their core values. I dont necessarily disagree with it.  It applies to all sorts of groups.  I was just implying that it us strange that government officials dont have the same perception toward those that practice Islam.   They are similar

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Fear, Power, and Nostalgia

https://www.alternet.org/evangelical-historian-explains-how-christians-came-put-trump-ahead-jesus

Spoiler

Evangelical Historian Explains How Christians Came to Put Trump Ahead of Jesus

“How do we reconcile the white evangelical politics of fear with the scriptural command to ‘fear not’?”
June 24, 2018, 10:13 AM GMT

John Fea is an evangelical Christian and a historian. When Donald Trump was elected with 81 percent of the self-described white evangelical vote, Fea was both stunned and surprised. “As a historian studying religion and politics, I should have seen this coming,” he notes. Yet he did not. Which was why Fea ended up writing his new book, “Believe Me: The Evangelical Road to Donald Trump.”

On its own terms, the book clearly succeeds in making sense for Fea and others like him, with potential for reaching wavering Trump supporters as well. He identifies and lucidly explores three fundamental flaws in evangelical thinking that have led them to embrace a leader who is wholly unfit by their own once-cherished moral standards, in pursuit of ends they cannot possibly achieve — restoring 1950s America via government action. In a key passage, Fea explains:

For too long, white evangelical Christians have engaged in public life through a strategy defined by the politics of fear, the pursuit of worldly power, and nostalgia for a national past that may never have existed in the first place. Fear. Power. Nostalgia. These ideas are at the heart of this book, and I believe they best explain the 81 percent.

 

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9 hours ago, pyrohornIII said:

Fear, Power, and Nostalgia

https://www.alternet.org/evangelical-historian-explains-how-christians-came-put-trump-ahead-jesus

  Reveal hidden contents

Evangelical Historian Explains How Christians Came to Put Trump Ahead of Jesus

“How do we reconcile the white evangelical politics of fear with the scriptural command to ‘fear not’?”
June 24, 2018, 10:13 AM GMT

John Fea is an evangelical Christian and a historian. When Donald Trump was elected with 81 percent of the self-described white evangelical vote, Fea was both stunned and surprised. “As a historian studying religion and politics, I should have seen this coming,” he notes. Yet he did not. Which was why Fea ended up writing his new book, “Believe Me: The Evangelical Road to Donald Trump.”

On its own terms, the book clearly succeeds in making sense for Fea and others like him, with potential for reaching wavering Trump supporters as well. He identifies and lucidly explores three fundamental flaws in evangelical thinking that have led them to embrace a leader who is wholly unfit by their own once-cherished moral standards, in pursuit of ends they cannot possibly achieve — restoring 1950s America via government action. In a key passage, Fea explains:

For too long, white evangelical Christians have engaged in public life through a strategy defined by the politics of fear, the pursuit of worldly power, and nostalgia for a national past that may never have existed in the first place. Fear. Power. Nostalgia. These ideas are at the heart of this book, and I believe they best explain the 81 percent.

 

Quote

Between the summer of 2015 and start of the primary season in early 2016, they were able to diagnose the crisis that the United States was facing in a way that brought great anxiety and concern to American evangelicals. But their strategy backfired. … The evangelical candidates stoked fears of a world they seemed unfit to train. Desperate times call for a strongman, and if a strongman was needed, only Donald Trump would fit the bill.

Perfectly observed.  When you stoke such a fire of pure fear, the masses will see just one solution -- a cartoonish strongman.  Enter DOTUS.

 

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8 minutes ago, jw4381 said:

This part is pretty scathing.

 

The Evangelicals’ Jesus is satanic, and those who hustle this demon are “false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve” (2 Cor. 11:13-15, NIV).

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13 minutes ago, F250 said:

This part is pretty scathing.

 

The Evangelicals’ Jesus is satanic, and those who hustle this demon are “false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve” (2 Cor. 11:13-15, NIV).

It's perfect.  And actually, for those of us who actually look to the Gospels and scriptures as a meaningful place of guidance....it's kind of perfect that such on-point messages are sitting right there before us, with no ambiguity.

Evangelicals aren't just missing the point.  They actively work against it.

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3 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

Man, I don't know what to make of the new "woke" Baptist Church. 

These guys aren't affiliated with the Southern Baptists. They are the moderates living in exile after the SBC purges in the 80' and 90's.

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7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

It's perfect.  And actually, for those of us who actually look to the Gospels and scriptures as a meaningful place of guidance....it's kind of perfect that such on-point messages are sitting right there before us, with no ambiguity.

Evangelicals aren't just missing the point.  They actively work against it.

I like it because its accurate. A couple of weeks ago I had a conversation with some evangelicals where I said Trump is the antithesis to Christ, he is literally antichrist. I threw in some LeVayen Satanism comparisons for good measure. Trump is more representative of satanism than christianity and that isn't hyperbole. 

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9 minutes ago, Pescado_Rojo said:

ahh...that makes more sense. 

Still, these aren't "liberal" Baptists, they are religiously moderate. These guys aren't Episcopalian liberal, they are evangelical in the proper sense, so it is still a powerful statement.

 

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48 minutes ago, F250 said:

These guys aren't affiliated with the Southern Baptists. They are the moderates living in exile after the SBC purges in the 80' and 90's.

The SBC has been purging the old hard-liners and moving to a younger and more diverse makeup, so the moderates would, be welcomed back.   Well, not just because they are purging hardliners, but also because they’ve lost a million members in the past 10-15 years. 

My wife’s Sunday School groups, the past few weekends, have been having some pretty blunt discussions about the family separation issue.  Some of these people were Trump voters, and now they are furious with him. 

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1 hour ago, atomheartbevo said:

The SBC has been purging the old hard-liners and moving to a younger and more diverse makeup, so the moderates would, be welcomed back.   Well, not just because they are purging hardliners, but also because they’ve lost a million members in the past 10-15 years. 

My wife’s Sunday School groups, the past few weekends, have been having some pretty blunt discussions about the family separation issue.  Some of these people were Trump voters, and now they are furious with him. 

I think some would return but there will need to be some kind of apology. There was a lot of turmoil back then, a lot of people were hurt by the divisiveness. I am hopeful though, back then a lot of the youth spoke out against what was happening. However, the youth have no voice in the church but now those young people are the same people that are assuming control of the SBC as elders of the church.

 

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A group of religious leaders was arrested in downtown Los Angeles on Tuesday morning while protesting a visit by Atty. Gen. Jeff Sessions, who is scheduled to deliver a speech to a criminal justice organization in the afternoon.

The rabbis, pastors and other faith leaders were among a group of about 150 demonstrators gathered outside the federal courthouse on Spring Street who were targeting Sessions because of his role in defending President Trump’s “zero tolerance” border policy that recently led to thousands of immigrant children and parents being detained and separated indefinitely.

About two dozen people were arrested, authorities said.

Sessions is scheduled to give a speech at the Criminal Justice Legal Foundation’s annual luncheon at the Millennium Biltmore Hotel on Tuesday afternoon, according to the Department of Justice.

 

Dozens of demonstrators held hands about 8:30 a.m. and blocked Spring Street, chanting, “Kids belong at home! Not in cages!”

Sandra Olewine, 51, a pastor at First United Methodist Church in Pasadena, was the first person arrested Tuesday morning. She had been seated in a line of people blocking the roadway. As she was led away in handcuffs, people cheered.

“Sometimes you have to break the law,” Olewine said minutes earlier. “We are sitting down for the children.”

As Los Angeles police officers prepared to arrest others, the group started praying. By 10:30 a.m., the street was cleared.

Rabbi Jonathan Klein, who helped organize the protest, said it was spearheaded by an interfaith group. Demonstrating against Trump’s policies, he said, aligns directly with his faith.

“We are building a just and sacred society,” Klein said. “My faith says I have no choice but to be here.”

Klein said he felt the protest took on greater significance Tuesday morning after the U.S. Supreme Court upheld President Trump’s ban on foreign visitors and immigrants from six mostly Muslim-majority nations.

 

 

 

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