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5 HPD Officers Shot

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And Art is being a bitch. Talking ‘bout he doesn’t want to discuss the couples criminal records. Probably because they don’t have one, asshole.

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i read the warrant, and the affidavit:

http://dig.abclocal.go.com/ktrk/PICS/JANUARY19/013019-ktrk-hpd-drug-house-warrant.pdf

it was based on a confidential informant supposedly buying heroin from the guy at the house.

the thing that stands out to me: "substance is packaged in a large number of plastic baggies."

the warrant was served on the 29th?

you telling me that the dude in the house sold all his heroin in a couple of days after the 27th? no respectable dealer is going to be tapped out, and only have a small amount of pot and maybe (?) some fentanyl.

i reckon that the cops want this story to quietly go away, and that they won't confirm or deny that the white powder is fentanyl.

however, even if it is, the city of houston just incurred a large medical expense, and the expense of the no-knock raid, to put a little pot and some white powder on the table with a 3-4 guns.

the other thing that stands out to me: the affidavit asking for the arrest warrant is awfully scant on details. how much cash did the confidential informant receive? how much did the "boy" cost? did the confidential informant provide change? are you sure that what you got was even heroin? were there any tests performed?

that you can muster up a squadron of officers to no-knock raid a house after a supposed two week investigation, based on the vague act of an unnamed confidential informant is horrifying. 

 

Edited by hayden_horn

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30 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

the city of houston just incurred a large medical expense, and the expense of the no-knock raid

Don't forget the cost of the civil suit by the heirs of the homeowners, should they decide to pursue it. 

I realize that these affidavits involve a fair amount of cutting and pasting, but it is still pretty lazy to continuously refer to the owner of the premises as "a white male whose name is unknown". Two weeks of investigation, and they never bothered to just look at the HCAD records to see who owned the property, and then cross reference the DPS? 

If the confidential informant alleges "there were a large number of plastic baggies", then where are they? I don't recall Art mentioning the recovery of them or other paraphernalia that might be used for distribution. And if the homeowner was dealing small quantities of heroin in plastic baggies, then surely the CI wasn't the only customer who bought at the house during the 2 weeks when the investigation was active. Where are the surveillance pics from those transactions?  Why is there no reference to them in the affidavit? The neighbors who have lived by these people for 30 yrs didn't say anything about strangers coming and going at all hours. I think they would've noticed, especially since they seem to interact with the homeowners on a regular basis. 

This thing stinks to high heaven.

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Yeah, they can lie about anything just to get a warrant. Do judges really look at those things? Or do they give it a glance and stamp it?

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19 minutes ago, mycox said:

Yeah, they can lie about anything just to get a warrant. Do judges really look at those things? Or do they give it a glance and stamp it?

 

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Confidential Informant? So no undercover buy at the location? You figure they would do at least one buy on video or audio.

If the police didn’t lie, maybe it was someone else that lived at the house?

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Municipal judges and criminal magistrates, who are not elected , probably need to be stripped of search warrant jurisdiction.

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 2:12 PM, the said:

Oh and what's with the personal attacks? Are you six? 

"I'd neg you again! You're stupid!!" 

Grow up. LOL.

Quit threadshitting, please.

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9 minutes ago, bernorange said:

Fuck no-knock raids.

But they're so fantastic!  They offer a convenient all-in-one package where we get to 1) shit all over the 4th amendment, 2) needlessly get civilians killed, and 3) needlessly get cops killed.  What's not to love?

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Between no-knock raids, civil asset forfeiture, "border/immigration" checkpoints 100 miles from any border, non-consensual blood draws, etc. we are so far off the reservation on the ethos of liberty that I weep for this country.  These are just LEO issues - I'm not even considering issues related to the draconian and growing surveillance state. 

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10 hours ago, bernorange said:

Between no-knock raids, civil asset forfeiture, "border/immigration" checkpoints 100 miles from any border, non-consensual blood draws, etc. we are so far off the reservation on the ethos of liberty that I weep for this country.  These are just LEO issues - I'm not even considering issues related to the draconian and growing surveillance state. 

Preach.

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Between no-knock raids, civil asset forfeiture, "border/immigration" checkpoints 100 miles from any border, non-consensual blood draws, etc. we are so far off the reservation on the ethos of liberty that I weep for this country.  These are just LEO issues - I'm not even considering issues related to the draconian and growing surveillance state. 

Land of the free.....

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so, any news on that white powder? any news on those numerous baggies of black tar heroin? any proof that this was a clearing house of drugs? what about cash recovered from the house?

oh, nothing new?

okay.

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35 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

so, any news on that white powder? any news on those numerous baggies of black tar heroin? any proof that this was a clearing house of drugs? what about cash recovered from the house?

oh, nothing new?

okay.

....yeah.

Let's do a quick run-down of who the losers are in no-knock raids like this, while we await further news.

LOSERS:

1) the Constitution.  The 4th amendment has been totally hosed by the standard of "I heard there's some drugs in that house, so let me bust down their door with the 101st airborne and the 1st Armored Division and destroy the place and everything in it.  Trust me, I've got the right address."

2) the citizens who live in or may otherwise be in the house at the time.  Kids killed by flashbangs, homeowners killed by armed intruders who bust in without sufficiently identifying themselves as cops, etc.  These raids kill people.  You know, the people who law enforcement is supposed to protect and serve.

3) the cops who get injured/killed in a pointless pseudo-military operation.  In Houston, 4 cops got shot.  In Killeen, a cop was killed.  That's a bad outcome, for all of us.  Even if we dislike law enforcement tactics, these are our fellow citizens, and they ARE doing a job for us.  We should want them to be safe, if possible.  We should want them NOT to take foolish risks that are unnecessary and counter-productive.  We should never want to see a cop hurt or killed on the job.  Yet these raids often create a heightened risk of just that.

Damned no-knock raids are a whole lot like the war on drugs that fuels them -- a shitload of downside, without much upside.

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On 1/30/2019 at 6:55 PM, mchookem said:

2 years later, he's found not guilty of attempted murder of a peace officer, but guilty of agg assault. 

Catching up on this thread - this is disgusting. Especially in a castle doctrine state. 

There's no way that kid would KNOWINGLY shoot and kill a police officer over a couple of misdemeanor drug charges. They killed his dog, woke up the whole house, kicked his door down, and his reaction in the heat of the moment is to pick up a gun and defend his family. When he realizes what he's done, he immediately drops the gun and gives himself over. 

Just fucking ridiculous. 

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Brisket - don’t forget the innocent bystanders who may not even be in the house when the raid goes down - i.e., the neighbors.

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2 minutes ago, Player said:

Brisket - don’t forget the innocent bystanders who may not even be in the house when the raid goes down - i.e., the neighbors.

EVERYBODY LOSES!!!

ConventionalElaborateDromaeosaur-size_re

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1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

....yeah.

Let's do a quick run-down of who the losers are in no-knock raids like this, while we await further news.

LOSERS:

1) the Constitution.  The 4th amendment has been totally hosed by the standard of "I heard there's some drugs in that house, so let me bust down their door with the 101st airborne and the 1st Armored Division and destroy the place and everything in it.  Trust me, I've got the right address."

2) the citizens who live in or may otherwise be in the house at the time.  Kids killed by flashbangs, homeowners killed by armed intruders who bust in without sufficiently identifying themselves as cops, etc.  These raids kill people.  You know, the people who law enforcement is supposed to protect and serve.

3) the cops who get injured/killed in a pointless pseudo-military operation.  In Houston, 4 cops got shot.  In Killeen, a cop was killed.  That's a bad outcome, for all of us.  Even if we dislike law enforcement tactics, these are our fellow citizens, and they ARE doing a job for us.  We should want them to be safe, if possible.  We should want them NOT to take foolish risks that are unnecessary and counter-productive.  We should never want to see a cop hurt or killed on the job.  Yet these raids often create a heightened risk of just that.

Damned no-knock raids are a whole lot like the war on drugs that fuels them -- a shitload of downside, without much upside.

I will take slight issue with you here.  I don't think "no-knock" really has a constitutional dimension, it's just a bad idea.

This search appears to be lawful.  The cops made the right kind of noises and went through the proper steps to secure a search warrant.  What's alarming, though, is how skimpy the warrant affidavit is, and how easily it could be erroneous, shaded, or even outright fabricated at either the informant or attesting officer level.  And also how deferential the judge was to the skimpy, uncorroborated facts set forth in the affidavit.

And this is what's worrisome:  the people are too deferential to the prosecutors, who in turn are too deferential to the cops, and the judge is probably too deferential to everyone at every stage.  Everyone except the defendant, that is.  And that deference has grown into something that might be considered actual, wait for it, collusion.

Edited by TwiceHorn

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

I will take slight issue with you here.  I don't think "no-knock" really has a constitutional dimension, it's just a bad idea.

This search appears to be lawful.  The cops made the right kind of noises and went through the proper steps to secure a search warrant.  What's alarming, though, is how skimpy the warrant affidavit is, and how easily it could be erroneous, shaded, or even outright fabricated at either the informant or attesting officer level.  And also how deferential the judge was to the skimpy, uncorroborated facts set forth in the affidavit.

And this is what's worrisome:  the people are too deferential to the prosecutors, who in turn are too deferential to the cops, and the judge is probably too deferential to everyone at every stage.  Everyone except the defendant, that is.

Point well-taken.  Perhaps my point is more of a hip bone connected to the leg bone thing.  Almost all of the no-knock warrants are drug raids.  The war on drugs and the culture of no-knock warrants go hand-in-hand.  And the war on drugs has lent itself to a massive dumbing-down of the warrant process as a whole.  All you have to do is state the rote, standard stuff, and you get your warrant.  It's damned near the equivalent of the cop who pulled you over saying in his statement "I smelled the distinct odor of marijuana, as I am trained to do" in order to justify searching your vehicle.  The WOD provides an excuse for a deluge of nearly identical warrants.  Because of that, they aren't scrutinized for shit.  And, cops love asking for those to be no-knock warrants, because apparently, no drug dealer in history has ever been arrested as he goes outside to get his mail.

So, the no-knocks are an appurtenance to the overall buttfucking of the 4th amendment.

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Just now, Brisketexan said:

Point well-taken.  Perhaps my point is more of a hip bone connected to the leg bone thing.  Almost all of the no-knock warrants are drug raids.  The war on drugs and the culture of no-knock warrants go hand-in-hand.  And the war on drugs has lent itself to a massive dumbing-down of the warrant process as a whole.  All you have to do is state the rote, standard stuff, and you get your warrant.  It's damned near the equivalent of the cop who pulled you over saying in his statement "I smelled the distinct odor of marijuana, as I am trained to do" in order to justify searching your vehicle.  The WOD provides an excuse for a deluge of nearly identical warrants.  Because of that, they aren't scrutinized for shit.  And, cops love asking for those to be no-knock warrants, because apparently, no drug dealer in history has ever been arrested as he goes outside to get his mail.

So, the no-knocks are an appurtenance to the overall buttfucking of the 4th amendment.

No argument there at all.  As exemplified by the warrant affidavit and the countless movies and TV shows, drugs are probably more easily and quickly disposable/flushable than any other type of contraband or evidence.

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1 minute ago, TwiceHorn said:

No argument there at all.  As exemplified by the warrant affidavit and the countless movies and TV shows, drugs are probably more easily and quickly disposable/flushable than any other type of contraband or evidence.

Yes and no.  A small personal amount?  Maybe.  A supply for dealing?  That takes a minute.  You don't have to knock and wait an hour for an answer -- you just need to announce your presence as cops.  Or, like I said....nab the guy when he's walking his damned dog, as he did every day.

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Yeah, whatever could go wrong with busting down someone's door, many times in the dead of night which wakes them from sleeping, and yelling "Police!" once or twice only giving them half a second to process what the fuck is going down.  That could never turn out to be a shit show.

Anyone remember this poor son of a bitch?  Has no idea what's going on and blasted into oblivion holding a golf club.

Or how about Jose Guerena?  An Iraq War veteran who had his wife and kid at home while the po-po unloaded 71 bullets into his home, killing him.  And he was completely innocent.

This no-knock bullshit is unconstitutional and, surprise, dumb as fuck.  It just leads to people getting killed for no good reason.  The police need to learn how to do, ya know, fucking police work and stop it with playing gung-ho dress up so they can get their rocks off.

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1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes and no.  A small personal amount?  Maybe.  A supply for dealing?  That takes a minute.  You don't have to knock and wait an hour for an answer -- you just need to announce your presence as cops.  Or, like I said....nab the guy when he's walking his damned dog, as he did every day.

"numerous plastic bags" per the arrest affidavit. takes time to empty all those bags and flush the contents.

of course, i guess they must have done so, since none of that kind of drug was recovered from the raided house. with two dead residents. so senseless.

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2 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Yes and no.  A small personal amount?  Maybe.  A supply for dealing?  That takes a minute.  You don't have to knock and wait an hour for an answer -- you just need to announce your presence as cops.  Or, like I said....nab the guy when he's walking his damned dog, as he did every day.

I'm not saying it necessitates "no knock," just that it is an easily imagined, kind of "no-thought" justification for it that is a direct result of the drug war, which is a very good point.

 

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21 minutes ago, hayden_horn said:

"numerous plastic bags" per the arrest affidavit. takes time to empty all those bags and flush the contents.

of course, i guess they must have done so, since none of that kind of drug was recovered from the raided house. with two dead residents. so senseless.

Yeah, and probably suspiciously in a box labeled "ziploc." Obviously only criminals would keep that kind of material around!

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Yeah, and probably suspiciously in a box labeled "ziploc." Obviously only criminals would keep that kind of material around!


Kept within a few paces of the foil, spoons, lighters, and kitchen matches! Oh shit, Sarge, found twist-ties over here in the back of this drawer! Obviously a distributer.

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On 1/28/2019 at 5:50 PM, thestud said:

 

 


For being such a little cunt you sure are a big fuckstick.

 

 

Just getting back to this thread. This bunch really sounds like heroes.

Edited by Deej

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On 1/30/2019 at 6:55 PM, mchookem said:

this discussion reminds me of a similar event that happened to a family we are best friends with here in Austin.

and yes, it was when Acevedo was still here. 

no-knock warrant served pre-dawn...dad was working, mom and son were home alone. he did have some sketchy friends and was running with a questionable crowd. an 'anonymous' tip said he was a cartel-level drug dealer. 

anyway, when door was busted in and flash bangsthrown, they both wake from dead sleep, mom screaming, kid grabs gun (because Texas, hunters, big 2nd amend supporters, etc) and proceeds to fire. shot one cop in the knee. mom realizes it's police, yells at him to stop, he does immediately, they lay on floor and he's taken into custody. 

2 years later, he's found not guilty of attempted murder of a peace officer, but guilty of agg assault. 

oh, and their dog was also killed.  blown up with a flash bang in their kitchen. 

that officer,  ANY of those officers could have been killed. our friends could have been killed. the dog WAS killed.

for an ounce of pot and some xanax. and several legal firearms, which were returned to the family. 

i was in the courtroom for much of the trial.  neighbors testified they hid in the closet bc they did not hear it was APD. APD surveilled the house for a week and admitted in court that they observed no suspicious activity. they did trash raids and found baggies and a container from a dispensary in CO. and empty ammunition cartridges...which came from the dad going to shooting range. that and the tip is what they based the no-knock warrant on. kid did not have a record.

kid went to school every day at 730. why the couldn't have waited,  just stopped him on the street, i will never understand. they didn't even charge him for the drugs, just the shooting.

which, in my not so humble opinion, THEY instigated. 

he got 13 years. completely illogical to me.

 

Total and absolute bullshit that this kid 13 years. 

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19 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Point well-taken.  Perhaps my point is more of a hip bone connected to the leg bone thing.  Almost all of the no-knock warrants are drug raids.  The war on drugs and the culture of no-knock warrants go hand-in-hand.  And the war on drugs has lent itself to a massive dumbing-down of the warrant process as a whole.  All you have to do is state the rote, standard stuff, and you get your warrant.  It's damned near the equivalent of the cop who pulled you over saying in his statement "I smelled the distinct odor of marijuana, as I am trained to do" in order to justify searching your vehicle.  The WOD provides an excuse for a deluge of nearly identical warrants.  Because of that, they aren't scrutinized for shit.  And, cops love asking for those to be no-knock warrants, because apparently, no drug dealer in history has ever been arrested as he goes outside to get his mail.

So, the no-knocks are an appurtenance to the overall buttfucking of the 4th amendment.

We agree but sadly you and I both know these are just the tip of the proverbial fucking of the 4th and 5th by the WOD 

Asset seizure, car searches, on street shake downs, etc.

And the worst part is it's predominantly poor people that are subject to these violations. What does that mean in regards to race issues? I think we all know that answer. I would argue that our political environment has fostered race issues between citizens to remove focus on the real monster in Machiavellian move to distract people from focusing on the real problem. However, that discussion doesn't belong in this sub.

This doesn't even get into our racist and classist penal system. Poor= rights violated and prison coming. Evidence and constitutional rights= who gives a fuck. WOD= nearly a return to debters prisons. Just for being poor, and some trying to profit like the pharmacy industry. Or you know, or government in Afghanistan or Columbia.

Then there is the militarization of our police forces which has created an environment of them being nearly an occupational force in poor neighborhoods. God knows they need tanks and APCs to protect themselves.

I wrote a "Thesis" in undergrad noting how the WOD was fast becoming the biggest social issue in the United States.

Well, I knew the basics and a lot of detail back then but the violations and issues have grown exponentially since that time.

Edited by BurntEyes

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1 minute ago, Lobwedgephil said:

Seems pretty clear, the informant "buy" was bullshit and there should have been zero reason for the raid. 

yes that is a potential answer for sure.  It does not "seem pretty clear" just yet, but I agree we might be moving towards that.  

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I'm pretty sure that the stink on this one is going to get worse and worse.....unless of course there's a coverup, intimidation/tampering with the "confidential informant," etc....so, yeah, nevermind, it's going to end up smelling like

710B7CVBBdL._SY355_.jpg

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According to three law enforcement sources, one focus of the investigation is about the validity of a purported controlled buy of suspected heroin in the 7800 block of Harding Street in southeast Houston. In a search warrant affidavit, the case agent wrote that a confidential informant purchased a brown powder substance known as “boy,” the street term for heroin, on Jan. 27.

so, uh, let's just put this one to bed and produce this sample of "boy" that the confidential informant bought. we can test it and determine if it is in fact heroin. let's do that. 

so, where is this sample that the CI bought? should be pretty easy to locate, right?

🙄

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According to three law enforcement sources, one focus of the investigation is about the validity of a purported controlled buy of suspected heroin in the 7800 block of Harding Street in southeast Houston. In a search warrant affidavit, the case agent wrote that a confidential informant purchased a brown powder substance known as “boy,” the street term for heroin, on Jan. 27.
so, uh, let's just put this one to bed and produce this sample of "boy" that the confidential informant bought. we can test it and determine if it is in fact heroin. let's do that. 
so, where is this sample that the CI bought? should be pretty easy to locate, right?

Goes to evidence room, comes back with heroin.

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The informant also warned police of a "large quantity" of drugs inside, packaged in plastic baggies, and a 9mm handgun, an investigator - whose name was redacted - wrote in the sworn statement.

When presented with the police affidavit on Jan. 28, a municipal court judge by an officer whose name was redacted by police — signed off on the warrant. Hours later, police crashed through the door, sparking a gun battle that left dead Tuttle, Nicholas and their dog. In the process, five officers were wounded, including four who were shot.

In the end, investigators found small amounts of marijuana and cocaine, but no heroin. They also found two 12-gauge shotguns, a 20-gauge shotgun, a .22-caliber rifle and a second rifle – but no 9mm handgun described in the warrant.

so, neither the described heroin, nor the described 9mm handgun were found.

great job, good effort HPD.

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Just now, Hank Scorpio said:

This thread is just begging for a VAPA appearance. I think if you say his name 3 times in a thread he will appear. 

Actually, I know that Constant will have professional courtesy and not comment here....but I'd actually really like to hear his unvarnished take.

As for what the investigative work of HPD is looking like at this point.....

MargeCarMeme.png

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Have y'all watched "Do Not Resist" documentary on Amazon Prime?  It's pretty good.  It's centered around the Ferguson riots, but also goes into the police training and no-knock raids.  The Dave Grossman hero-cop seminars make me mad enough to spit nails, talking about coming home and having the best sex of your life after shooting a bad dude on the job.  Seems like a lot of the militarized SWAT dudes doing these raids are glorified adrenaline junkies looking for their next fix.

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I love the little police officers’ union president saying that it’s no big deal. Nothing to see here at all. 

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On 2/4/2019 at 12:00 PM, TwiceHorn said:

No argument there at all.  As exemplified by the warrant affidavit and the countless movies and TV shows, drugs are probably more easily and quickly disposable/flushable than any other type of contraband or evidence.

if only there were some way to turn off the water to an individual house.  maybe located near the front, under a plastic cover. 

Edited by elfenix

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