So, our defense is garbage

[Nueces River Rat 5485]

According to Scipio, and he seems fairly prescient on these sorts of things, Orlando's scheme requires players to know a bunch of different calls for different looks on defense.  And learning this system strips players of instinct and fundamental play.
In that sense, he's much like Diaz, too smart for his own good.  And, like Diaz, the system functioned better with players that didn't "grow up" in his system and still had remnants of fundamental position play and instinct.

He’s miles ahead of Diaz. If you recall when Diaz hit the exit, our D couldn’t tackle a brick wall. While we had way too many moments yesterday where shit hit the fan, it was mainly due to coverage packages and a couple of weak links. Manny’s defense was all of the above

[TwiceHorn 30715]

The point isn't that he's DIaz 2.0 or even that similar.  But he's so obsessed with his tricks and "calls" that he sacrifices training in fundamentals, and strips his players of instinct and ability.

 

[MaybeACoordinator 8349]

7 hours ago, Newy25 said:

I knew you would come here to defend the Strong recruit. CJ is not a first round pick or even an elite WR no matter how much you like Strong. 

That's just your opinion, man.

https://247sports.com/college/texas/Article/Texas-Longhorns-Football-WR-Collin-Johnson-2020-first-round-pick-NFL-mock-draft-131678468/

[Texasrocks 2110]

18 minutes ago, MaybeACoordinator said:

That's just your opinion, man.

https://247sports.com/college/texas/Article/Texas-Longhorns-Football-WR-Collin-Johnson-2020-first-round-pick-NFL-mock-draft-131678468/

[Bruh Man 3160]

Fucking Orlando ruined an amazing moment for this program & Sam.

 

[Bruh Man 3160]

Can someone post the Scipio article? 

@Machinator

[NowThis 931]

1 hour ago, longhornmatt said:

Diaz preferred to outsmart himself with twists and stunts and bizarre alignments - I remember one play against either BYU or the year before against Ole Miss when he lined up the entire DL on the right side of the center, so the offense just checked to a run left and took free yardage.   Orlando’s fetish is for blitzing tiny people into 320 pound walls and “tricking” QBs with telegraphed delayed pressure combined with soft cushions and bad numbers in coverage.  

“They’d never expect the 4th rusher to be this safety lined up 8 yards deep on the far hash.”  Yeah, there’s a reason they wouldn’t expect you to do that, Orlando. Because it won’t work. And, btw, you tipped it off anyway when your secondary obviously shifted around and switched assignments after looking to the sideline and the blitzer has been pointed toward the QB for the last 10 seconds.

One makes the run more vulnerable, the other the pass, but they are both derived from the same root cause of a DC trying to design a fancy Rube Goldberg machine instead of a simple boring system that doesn’t make said DC look brilliant and cutting edge when it works.

bj foster had 2 sacks tho.  Although he does take too many risks, so does OC -- it boils down to the gambling philosophy and mindset of Herman. 

[Steamboat1874 4008]

Blah blah blah.....

If you want to be DBU you do not play zone where guys are running wide fucking open over the middle all night (see La Tech and LSU highlights)

Play man and put pressure on the QB

We are stuffing the run and getting good pressure.

We are not covering receivers over the middle and we are getting torched there.

[6th Street 6245]

This is probably Orlando's last year here. Defense is embarrassingly bad, and a major liability.

[SKA the boss 729]

I wonder what this thread will read like in November.

[horngasm19 104]

Mensa is too much of a stubborn pussy to fire his friends, no matter how bad they suck at coaching. He is Mackovic lite (without the championships)

[n64ra 1072]

The defensive play calling was garbage too.

[TwiceHorn 30715]

1 hour ago, Bruh Man said:

Can someone post the Scipio article? 

@Machinator

It's on Barking Carnival, https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2019/9/8/20855692/final-thoughts-lsu-45-texas-38-todd-orlando-3rd-17-texas-football but it makes reference to something written up in Thinking Texas Football, which can't be posted.  https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/947268

[CurlyDumps 4408]

3 hours ago, Nueces River Rat said:

He’s miles ahead of Diaz.

Is he though? Numbers don't tell the whole story, but Texas' defensive S+P rankings in each of their first two years are awfully similar.

2011: 13.0 - #5

2012 - 23.4 #43

2013: Gave up 40+ to an SEC team, got fired

 

2017 - 16.3 #14

2018 -  24.4 #44

2019: Gave up 40+ to an SEC team...

[Nueces River Rat 5485]

18 minutes ago, CurlyDumps said:

Is he though? Numbers don't tell the whole story, but Texas' defensive S+P rankings in each of their first two years are awfully similar.

2011: 13.0 - #5

2012 - 23.4 #43

2013: Gave up 40+ to an SEC team, got fired

 

2017 - 16.3 #14

2018 -  24.4 #44

2019: Gave up 40+ to an SEC team...

Our offense hasn’t been as inept as it was during the Diaz years.  Sad to say, but defensive coordinators get a pass for the most part if the W/L record is good or heading in the right direction.   Now, if a team gets blown out a few times or loses a series of winnable games because the defense went MIA like it did against LSU, the DC deserves the scrutiny.  If we have issues against Okie State in a couple of weeks and then a not so hot West Virginia, then let the “Fire Orlando.”  talk commence.  Hell if Rice put 400 yards on us, then start the talk in the 4th qtr. 

[RoyalBevo21 707]

2 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Blah blah blah.....

If you want to be DBU you do not play zone where guys are running wide fucking open over the middle all night (see La Tech and LSU highlights)

Play man and put pressure on the QB

We are stuffing the run and getting good pressure.

We are not covering receivers over the middle and we are getting torched there.

Typically when crossing routes are open it's because the D is in man. However they burned us a lot when they would line up in trips and the inside receiver would run a drag behind the linebackers. Unfortunately the inside linebackers are quite poor in coverage. We're really missing Gary Johnson in that department. 

[Goodman 3271]

1 hour ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's on Barking Carnival, https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2019/9/8/20855692/final-thoughts-lsu-45-texas-38-todd-orlando-3rd-17-texas-football but it makes reference to something written up in Thinking Texas Football, which can't be posted.  https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/947268

Scipio is dead on right with this one.

[Burt Macklin 18960]

2 hours ago, CurlyDumps said:

Is he though? Numbers don't tell the whole story, but Texas' defensive S+P rankings in each of their first two years are awfully similar.

2011: 13.0 - #5

2012 - 23.4 #43

2013: Gave up 40+ to an SEC team, got fired

 

2017 - 16.3 #14

2018 -  24.4 #44

2019: Gave up 40+ to an SEC team...

[Loco 3752]

I don't know who had the idea for the DBU shirts, but that shit didn't work at all.   Were the players confident (perhaps overly confident) or was it the coaches trying to instill some swagger and hype?  Either way, after each seemingly uncontested completion, I was wondering about the mindset of a kid that wore a troll shirt and got rolled vs some coach who hyped his kids and put them in a bad spot.

 

[XYZ 2154]

29 minutes ago, Loco said:

I don't know who had the idea for the DBU shirts, but that shit didn't work at all.   Were the players confident (perhaps overly confident) or was it the coaches trying to instill some swagger and hype?  Either way, after each seemingly uncontested completion, I was wondering about the mindset of a kid that wore a troll shirt and got rolled vs some coach who hyped his kids and put them in a bad spot.

 

Huff

[bschoolprof 6219]

Let's let the Big 12 schedule play out before we completely hit the panic button.

 

But really we should probably hit the panic button.  

[ClubWhatever 12066]

49 minutes ago, Loco said:

I don't know who had the idea for the DBU shirts, but that shit didn't work at all.   Were the players confident (perhaps overly confident) or was it the coaches trying to instill some swagger and hype?  Either way, after each seemingly uncontested completion, I was wondering about the mindset of a kid that wore a troll shirt and got rolled vs some coach who hyped his kids and put them in a bad spot.

 

Worrying about the effect of shirts is voodoo.  Either you can execute your coverage assignment or you can't.  Now how much of that is a deficiency in athletic ability, experience, or proper coaching is another story.  I think our guys have the athletic ability to be a good unit.  There is an experience deficit on the edges that will slowly get erased over the year.  However, the shit taking place in the middle of the field seems like mostly a coaching deficit.  Guys are not being put in a position to make a play.

[Sock Drawer 214]

This is an honest observation, not a back-handed defense of Orlando: There was a time, not too long ago, when the universal opinion was that Orlando was the absolute key to our successes and we feared--no, prayed--that some mid-major didn't come and scoop him up to be their HC. We publicly begged Del Conte to pay him whatever it takes to keep him--$2mm, $3mm, anything. Now we've loosed the hounds and every poster on here is calling for blood. 

Are we overreacting to last Saturday, or is it like comfortably thinking Japan is our friend and then that pesky ol' Pearl Harbor thing happened?

[Burt Macklin 18960]

1 minute ago, Sock Drawer said:

This is an honest observation, not a back-handed defense of Orlando: There was a time, not too long ago, when the universal opinion was that Orlando was the absolute key to our successes and we feared--no, prayed--that some mid-major didn't come and scoop him up to be their HC. We publicly begged Del Conte to pay him whatever it takes to keep him--$2mm, $3mm, anything. Now we've loosed the hounds and every poster on here is calling for blood. 

Are we overreacting to last Saturday, or is it like comfortably thinking Japan is our friend and then that pesky ol' Pearl Harbor thing happened?

I struggle to believe he’s just bad now, or anything like Diaz. He fielded 3 good to great defenses in a row from 2015-2017, then all of Charlie’s shitty recruiting came home to roost last year and this year. We have serious personnel deficiencies and holes in our depth chart this year. I think people read all these offseason practice reports and forget that we have serious talent issues on the defense. I mean we only have like 2 good players from the 2016 and 2017 classes in Jones and Shark. It’s really hard to field a good defense with only 2 above average upperclassmen.I don’t count either of Roach or Graham as good and lack of DL talent is a big part of what’s hurting us. Charlie didn’t leave us a single really good upperclassman at DL or CB, and unsurprisingly, those two positions are hurting us the most. Now Orlando/Herman should’ve done more to fix that in the last two years, but the talent issues are there. 

Maybe it’s that Orlando over schemes and paralyzes his players, or maybe he just doesn’t have enough talent and is screwing up by trying to run his full system instead of just simplifying his defense and accepting that a slightly above average defense is good enough this year. 

I still think next year we’ll have more talent and way less holes on defense and our D will be much improved, but the more games I see like LSU, it gets harder and harder to keep thinking that. 

[XYZ 2154]

3 minutes ago, Sock Drawer said:

This is an honest observation, not a back-handed defense of Orlando: There was a time, not too long ago, when the universal opinion was that Orlando was the absolute key to our successes and we feared--no, prayed--that some mid-major didn't come and scoop him up to be their HC. We publicly begged Del Conte to pay him whatever it takes to keep him--$2mm, $3mm, anything. Now we've loosed the hounds and every poster on here is calling for blood. 

Are we overreacting to last Saturday, or is it like comfortably thinking Japan is our friend and then that pesky ol' Pearl Harbor thing happened?

Not overreacting to last Saturday. Last four losses have been to teams with good passing offenses that we couldn’t stop. Our pass rush is ineffectual, and our backfield is a Benny Hill sketch. At this point I expect that OSU and OU will score plenty on our D.

[Burt Macklin 18960]

13 minutes ago, ClubWhatever said:

Worrying about the effect of shirts is voodoo.  Either you can execute your coverage assignment or you can't.  Now how much of that is a deficiency in athletic ability, experience, or proper coaching is another story.  I think our guys have the athletic ability to be a good unit.  There is an experience deficit on the edges that will slowly get erased over the year.  However, the shit taking place in the middle of the field seems like mostly a coaching deficit.  Guys are not being put in a position to make a play.

Foster has like 9 tackles and 2 sacks. Guys are being put in positions to make a play, but you can’t take everything away without a solid rush and CBs that are bad in man.

 If Green can grow into a guy who can be left on an island, then everything changes but for now, Orlando needs to learn that he’s going to have to give up some things instead of trying to be a dominant defense this year.  He goes for the home run play way too much as a DC. We don’t need that without offense.

[6th Street 6245]

Definitely has parallels to the Diaz team in 2013 where the defense was overly complex and players were frequently out of position. 

Greg Robinson came in and simplified things to more base type coverages, with a focus on fundamentals and keeping things in front of you. The result was an immediate improvement.

Question is can Orlando swallow his pride or will we continue to allow his defense to get destroyed like it has against Maryland, WVU, Ok State, OU x2, and LSU. 

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

I keep writing and rewriting this because I’m having a hard time articulating what I’m trying to get across.  But here’s my best shot at it. 

I would like Orlando to explain the defensive scheme and concept at a very high, no details, basic level.  Because it doesn’t look like there is one.  Just a sheet of plays. Some of them genius level but not based off any central idea.

And that really would work if the defensive players all. know how to play defense already.  But if they don’t you’d better hope it all goes just the way he whiteboarded it or they will rightly not know what they’re supposed to do.

It seems to me that if this is true the problem will get worse as the defense transitions to more and more of “his guys” rather than players who learned some type of scheme first and absorbed some of his plays into that.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Liquor and Poker

[6th Street 6245]

Beating Orlando's defense is easy - there are wide open areas in the middle of the field because of all the random blitzing and DBs playing soft zone coverage. That's an easy 10-20yd pickup every time as the blitz rarely results in a QB pressure.

[Pogo 280]

Lincoln Riley watching LSU torch our secondary...

[AnTiM 1629]

We can analyze to no end, but there is no logical explanation for rushing three and constantly having receivers with no defender within ten yards of them.  Our DBs looked like they had never defended a pass in their entire careers.  The mind boggles.

[LTtxfan 48688]

11 hours ago, TwiceHorn said:

It's on Barking Carnival, https://www.barkingcarnival.com/2019/9/8/20855692/final-thoughts-lsu-45-texas-38-todd-orlando-3rd-17-texas-football but it makes reference to something written up in Thinking Texas Football, which can't be posted.  https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/947268

Thx @Machinator    Scipio got this right:

"Final Thoughts: LSU-45, Texas-38 "

By Scipio Tex  Sep 8, 2019, 1:24pm CDT

Photo by Tim Warner/Getty Images

The Longhorns didn’t lack for competitiveness, effort, or a phenomenal crowd. Rallying from a 20-7 deficit took belief, guts and fitness in brutal conditions. And the offensive brain trust delivered, particularly in the 2nd half.

There was one glaring outlier to the Texas effort and he is to defensive coordinators against the hurry up spread as his namesake is to the rankings of great American cities.

Marrying a bag of pressures doesn’t constitute a coherent defense. Football players are more than mindless Xs running to spots. They have to be taught the game - from the position up. Not from the whiteboard down.

You cannot stop modern offenses without individual player agency and basic fundamentals. That begins at the position level.

It’s called the Call Matching Fallacy and if you read the 2019 Thinking Texas Football guide, you learned all about it. I thought experience in the system would give Texas the chance to improve on last year’s failed performance against comparable offenses (Tech, OSU, WVU, OU) as we could concentrate less on mindless call execution and lining up right and more on player positional development, but when you accept that there really is no system, just a bunch of calls on a play sheet, you have some sobering conclusions to consider.

After an entire game of getting out-coached by a 29 year old passing game coordinator and singlehandedly propelling LSU QB Joe Burrow into the Heisman race, that 3rd and 17 call was the piece de resistance.

There are layers of incompetence in that crap cake call so sticky that they are almost impossible to tease out. It defies Football 101. It defies basic probability analysis. It defies game situation: the success of the Texas offense, the time on the clock. It defies the reality of what LSU had been doing in the passing game. It defied the individual strengths of our players. A six man blitz with a safety mirror is zero coverage. 4 men in man coverage on LSU’s 4 excellent WR’s. Our weakest link vs. their team strength. On 3rd and 17. 2:38 on the clock. With the Texas offense dominating.

It’s indefensible football.

Props to Longhorn Nation, the Longhorn players, and several Longhorn coaches for showing up. Including Yancy McKnight. It was clear who the better conditioned team was.

There was a game right there to be stolen away.

On to Rice.

Edited September 9, 2019 by LTtxfan

[MonkeyDoughnut 9944]

I'm certainly not against poaching Jon Heacock from Iowa State.. dude currently makes less than half of what Orlando makes yet still performs better with lesser players. Our defense should not require 5-stars across the board to be good.

[ATLLonghorn 821]

It's simple to me. Orlando has a month to get the defense ready for OU. If it's another disaster like this week was, you move on. Herman won't do that because he's too arrogant to admit his guy isn't doing his job right, but it's three straight years our defense has been woefully unprepared to play a power 5 non-conference opponent. LSU is  a lot more talented than Maryland, but the point remains. Our defense looked lost. Joe Burrow is getting a lot of praise, but the defense didn't challenge him at all. If they're going to play marquee non-conference opponents every year the defense has to be prepared to play them. In Herman's tenure they've yet to be ready for a power 5 opponent in September.

[Tex Long 4264]

I always liked John Wooden's take: every year, you get the best players you can get, then teach them fundamentals, then use whatever system fits the best players in the best way. 

Yeah, basketball, but, regardless,  you can't recruit to your system if you don't have one. Even if you do (we don't seem to) have one, sometimes you can't recruit the parts you need, so you might as well go with the Wooden Plan.

[Newdoc 3421]

12 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Blah blah blah.....

If you want to be DBU you do not play zone where guys are running wide fucking open over the middle all night (see La Tech and LSU highlights)

Play man and put pressure on the QB

We are stuffing the run and getting good pressure.

We are not covering receivers over the middle and we are getting torched there.

Yeah, pretty much this.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

45 minutes ago, LTtxfan said:

Marrying a bag of pressures doesn’t constitute a coherent defense. Football players are more than mindless Xs running to spots. They have to be taught the game - from the position up. Not from the whiteboard down.

You cannot stop modern offenses without individual player agency and basic fundamentals. That begins at the position level.

It’s called the Call Matching Fallacy and if you read the 2019 Thinking Texas Football guide, you learned all about it. I thought experience in the system would give Texas the chance to improve on last year’s failed performance against comparable offenses (Tech, OSU, WVU, OU) as we could concentrate less on mindless call execution and lining up right and more on player positional development, but when you accept that there really is no system, just a bunch of calls on a play sheet, you have some sobering conclusions to consider.

Yeah - this is pretty damn spot on to what I was trying to say, especially the bold parts.

[Burt Macklin 18960]

1 hour ago, 6th Street said:

Definitely has parallels to the Diaz team in 2013 where the defense was overly complex and players were frequently out of position. 

Greg Robinson came in and simplified things to more base type coverages, with a focus on fundamentals and keeping things in front of you. The result was an immediate improvement.

Question is can Orlando swallow his pride or will we continue to allow his defense to get destroyed like it has against Maryland, WVU, Ok State, OU x2, and LSU. 

I think it’s pretty obvious based on his history that Orlando won’t on his own, but this is where Herman needs to step in as the HC. This is Herman’s job to correct more than anyone else, even Orlando.

1 hour ago, 6th Street said:

Beating Orlando's defense is easy - there are wide open areas in the middle of the field because of all the random blitzing and DBs playing soft zone coverage. That's an easy 10-20yd pickup every time as the blitz rarely results in a QB pressure.

We played man plenty on Saturday and Jalen Green played press coverage a ton. Most of the holes in the middle of the field were due to playing man coverage with no one getting to the QB.  If we were playing zone, those middle crossers wouldn’t have been there, but we also would’ve been giving Burrow 8 seconds per drop back and we would’ve got beat in a different way.

Our defense definitely has issues, but this post is about as Joe Schmoe fan who doesn’t know what he’s talking about as you can get.

1 hour ago, Liquor and Poker said:

I keep writing and rewriting this because I’m having a hard time articulating what I’m trying to get across.  But here’s my best shot at it. 

I would like Orlando to explain the defensive scheme and concept at a very high, no details, basic level.  Because it doesn’t look like there is one.  Just a sheet of plays. Some of them genius level but not based off any central idea.

And that really would work if the defensive players all. know how to play defense already.  But if they don’t you’d better hope it all goes just the way he whiteboarded it or they will rightly not know what they’re supposed to do.

It seems to me that if this is true the problem will get worse as the defense transitions to more and more of “his guys” rather than players who learned some type of scheme first and absorbed some of his plays into that.

This is an absolutely fair question at this point. I tend to think the Scipio line of thinking re Diaz is over the top. Orlando has a system, and he’s shown he coaches it fairly well throughout the course of his career. I don’t see players who show no understanding of their position. Guys like Shark, Ossai, Foster, etc. are asked to do a lot of different things and they’ve done them pretty well while showing an understanding of their responsibilities in the overall defense. However, he is trying to call the perfect blitz/counter to very offensive play and it’s killing us. His play calling is too rigid and he needs to rely on the talent he does have, instead of trying to win every single play through scheme/play calling. You’re just not going to do win that way against the offenses we face, and now that our O Is becoming elite, we don’t need dominating defensive performances. 

So I guess I’d say I don’t think it’s as fundamental an issue as Diaz-coached teams and is much more easily correctable. However, it is still a huge problem and needs to be corrected.  Diaz teams at every stop show poor tackling and poor fundamentals and they get worse and worse. I don’t see the same fundamental flaws in our defense. We’re in year two of a two year depth/talent valley due to the Strong fallout. Orlando needs to simplify and minimize our weaknesses during this time and he’s not doing it well, but I’m not convinced that he’s just going to continue to get worse every single year like a Diaz team would. 

But it is certainly becoming more of a concern. Unless our defense severely craps the bed and gets worse this season, I expect Orlando to be our DC next year, and that’s probably when we’ll get our answer about Orlando. He’ll have no excuses from a personnel standpoint in 2021. If the defenses return to his 2015-2017 levels, then we’re in great shape and will be for a while because this roster won’t have talent/depth issues on defense for years after that. If not, then Herman probably kept TO 1-2 years too long and may have spoiled Sam’s chance at a title.

 

Edited September 9, 2019 by Burt Macklin

[Burt Macklin 18960]

13 hours ago, Steamboat1874 said:

Blah blah blah.....

If you want to be DBU you do not play zone where guys are running wide fucking open over the middle all night (see La Tech and LSU highlights)

Play man and put pressure on the QB

We are stuffing the run and getting good pressure.

We are not covering receivers over the middle and we are getting torched there.

 

39 minutes ago, Newdoc said:

Yeah, pretty much this.

Where are people getting this idea that all we do is play soft zone? We played a ton of man coverage and brought 4-5 to pressure the QB all the time. Our CBs cannot hold up in man against LSU who trotted our 3 NFL wide receivers every play. 

guys were open in the middle of the field because we played man, not because we played zone. If we could get pressure with 4 or leave the Boundary CB on an island, then Orlando would’ve had an extra man to play shallow zone in the middle and take away the crossers, but we don’t have the talent to do either of those things right now.

[Steamboat1874 4008]

5 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

I think it’s pretty obvious based on his history that Orlando won’t on his own, but this is where Herman needs to step in as the HC. This is Herman’s job to correct more than anyone else, even Orlando.

We played man plenty on Saturday and Jalen Green played press coverage a ton. Most of the holes in the middle of the field were due to playing man coverage with no one getting to the QB.  If we were playing zone, those middle crossers wouldn’t have been there, but we also would’ve been giving Burrow 8 seconds per drop back and we would’ve got beat in a different way.

Our defense definitely has issues, but this post is about as Joe Schmoe fan who doesn’t know what he’s talking about as you can get.

This is an absolutely fair question at this point. I tend to think the Scipio line of thinking re Diaz is over the top. Orlando has a system, and he’s shown he coaches it fairly well throughout the course of his career. I don’t see players who show no understanding of their position. Guys like Shark, Ossai, Foster, etc. are asked to do a lot of different things and they’ve done them pretty well while showing an understanding of their responsibilities in the overall defense. However, he is trying to call the perfect blitz/counter to very offensive play and it’s killing us. His play calling is too rigid and he needs to rely on the talent he does have, instead of trying to win every single play through scheme/play calling. You’re just not going to do win that way against the offenses we face, and now that our O Is becoming elite, we don’t need dominating defensive performances. 

So I guess I’d say I don’t think it’s as fundamental an issue as Diaz-coached teams and is much more easily correctable. However, it is still a huge problem and needs to be corrected.  Diaz teams at every stop show poor tackling and poor fundamentals and they get worse and worse. I don’t see the same fundamental flaws in our defense. We’re in year two of a two year depth/talent valley due to the Strong fallout. Orlando needs to simplify and minimize our weaknesses during this time and he’s not doing it well, but I’m not convinced that he’s just going to continue to get worse every single year like a Diaz team would. 

But it is certainly becoming more of a concern. Unless our defense severely craps the bed and gets worse this season, I expect Orlando to be our DC next year, and that’s probably when we’ll get our answer about Orlando. He’ll have no excuses from a personnel standpoint in 2021. If the defenses return to his 2015-2017 levels, then we’re in great shape and will be for a while because this roster won’t have talent/depth issues on defense for years after that. If not, then Herman probably kept TO 1-2 years too long and may have spoiled Sam’s chance at a title.

 

If that was man to man defense most of the time than our DB's really suck because there were multiple times receivers were running across the middle with nary an orange jersey in sight. 

[sith_horn 2320]

41 minutes ago, ATLLonghorn said:

It's simple to me. Orlando has a month to get the defense ready for OU. If it's another disaster like this week was, you move on. Herman won't do that because he's too arrogant to admit his guy isn't doing his job right, but it's three straight years our defense has been woefully unprepared to play a power 5 non-conference opponent. LSU is  a lot more talented than Maryland, but the point remains. Our defense looked lost. Joe Burrow is getting a lot of praise, but the defense didn't challenge him at all. If they're going to play marquee non-conference opponents every year the defense has to be prepared to play them. In Herman's tenure they've yet to be ready for a power 5 opponent in September.

Don't overlook Ok. St. They're QB is impressive and they have some real weapons on offense. Someone else said we'd not face any WRs as good as LSU has. I beg to differ on that one.

[Burt Macklin 18960]

Just now, Steamboat1874 said:

If that was man to man defense most of the time than our DB's really suck because there were multiple times receivers were running across the middle with nary an orange jersey in sight. 

It was man most of the time and yes, our CBs are pretty bad right now. We need to role with Cook and Green for the rest of the year and let them take their lumps. I think those two will be much improved by the end of the season if we stick with them. 

[scottsins 1921]

If that was man to man defense most of the time than our DB's really suck because there were multiple times receivers were running across the middle with nary an orange jersey in sight. 

We were in man on their 3rd and 17 conversion. Zero safety help. We rushed 6 and assigned a spy to someone.

WAY upthread, a poster noted the differences in our formations, etc. as the game progressed.

You’re dead on though when you state “If that was man to man defense most of the time than our DB's really suck...”

They are our weakness. The absolute worst way to mitigate that weakness is to go cover zero, which we did a lot.

[Bevo14 8196]

2 minutes ago, Burt Macklin said:

It was man most of the time and yes, our CBs are pretty bad right now. We need to role with Cook and Green for the rest of the year and let them take their lumps. I think those two will be much improved by the end of the season if we stick with them. 

This. This game came at a bad time for new corners, but they will get better.

Edited September 9, 2019 by Bevo14

[scottsins 1921]

Don't overlook Ok. St. They're QB is impressive and they have some real weapons on offense. Someone else said we'd not face any WRs as good as LSU has. I beg to differ on that one.

Actually, don’t overlook a lot of teams we face this year. We cannot to go cover zero with our personnel, and that’s not changing over the next few months.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

Just now, Burt Macklin said:

Orlando has a system, and he’s shown he coaches it fairly well throughout the course of his career. However, he is trying to call the perfect blitz/counter to very offensive play and it’s killing us. His play calling is too rigid and he needs to rely on the talent he does have, instead of trying to win every single play through scheme/play calling. You’re just not going to do win that way against the offenses we face, and now that our O Is becoming elite, we don’t need dominating defensive performances. 

So I guess I’d say I don’t think it’s as fundamental an issue as Diaz-coached teams and is much more easily correctable. However, it is still a huge problem and needs to be corrected.  Diaz teams at every stop show poor tackling and poor fundamentals and they get worse and worse. I don’t see the same fundamental flaws in our defense. We’re in year two of a two year depth/talent valley due to the Strong fallout. Orlando needs to simplify and minimize our weaknesses during this time and he’s not doing it well, but I’m not convinced that he’s just going to continue to get worse every single year like a Diaz team would. 

But it is certainly becoming more of a concern. Unless our defense severely craps the bed and gets worse this season, I expect Orlando to be our DC next year, and that’s probably when we’ll get our answer about Orlando. He’ll have no excuses from a personnel standpoint in 2021. If the defenses return to his 2015-2017 levels, then we’re in great shape and will be for a while because this roster won’t have talent/depth issues on defense for years after that. If not, then Herman probably kept TO 1-2 years too long and may have spoiled Sam’s chance at a title.

 

I keep seeing the problem we have had quite a few times on offense over the last two decades - coaching the "perfect play" regardless of the talents and skills of the players rather than coaching players to use their skills to their best ability.  Some of those "perfect" plays need to be scrapped for the time being because we don't have Derrick Johnson at MLB or Earl Thomas at SS.

Then again, that last TD - I don't know what group of players would have to have been suited up to make that play make sense.

However, to be totally fair, I think that losing 9 defensive starters or whatever it was is a tall order to fill, and this is game 2.  Just 2 seasons back we lost to Kansas in route to a third straight losing season, and here we are in the conversation, however briefly or deserved.  It's not like we're kicking off in both halves and the head coach has to have a timeout explained to him by an assistant.  So I'm not ready to pull the eject lever just yet.

[Liquor and Poker 3659]

1 minute ago, scottsins said:

 

Actually, don’t overlook a lot of teams we face this year. We cannot to go cover zero with our personnel, and that’s not changing over the next few months.

 

Yeah, if I'm an opposing coach, I know what to do to give my team the best chance to beat Texas, and even if I'm Rice I'm gonna give it a shot.  Hell right now I'd expect Paul Johnson's Georgia Tech teams to come out in 5-wide against us.  

[sith_horn 2320]

2 minutes ago, scottsins said:

Actually, don’t overlook a lot of teams we face this year. We cannot to go cover zero with our personnel, and that’s not changing over the next few months.

Absolutely agree. But Ok. St. precedes OU, which is what I was responding to.

[Burt Macklin 18960]

6 minutes ago, Liquor and Poker said:

I keep seeing the problem we have had quite a few times on offense over the last two decades - coaching the "perfect play" regardless of the talents and skills of the players rather than coaching players to use their skills to their best ability.  Some of those "perfect" plays need to be scrapped for the time being because we don't have Derrick Johnson at MLB or Earl Thomas at SS.

Then again, that last TD - I don't know what group of players would have to have been suited up to make that play make sense.

However, to be totally fair, I think that losing 9 defensive starters or whatever it was is a tall order to fill, and this is game 2.  Just 2 seasons back we lost to Kansas in route to a third straight losing season, and here we are in the conversation, however briefly or deserved.  It's not like we're kicking off in both halves and the head coach has to have a timeout explained to him by an assistant.  So I'm not ready to pull the eject lever just yet.

Yeah. This many we starters was always going to hurt some, especially early. Playing OU and LSU in the first 5 games with this young of a defense is unfortunate scedhule-wide. 

Orlando needs to simplify and at least make the offense earn their TD drives. He made it way too easy on Burrow, especially on 3rd and 17. 

But I do think folks need to realize there is no perfect answer. This defensive personnel has Some serious flaws. The goal should just be to mitigate them as much as possible this year. 

[horn4life 3748]

Our defense isn't the best one we've ever had, but senior Burrows was tossing darts and Sam was playing corn hole.  No disrespect to Sam but Burrows was clearly the better QB.  I think Sam will likely be on a similar level next season, possibly even this season.  In my mind a LOT of the stress on our defense was the inability of the Offense to sustain drives, and for God's sake put up TD's when you find yourself standing at the 5 yard line.

Young Green got picked on as the weakest link in the defense, but LSU is pretty good.  Not expecting them to pick on a freshmen was never in the cards.  Their QB made decent coverage look shoddy, and good coverage meant you were still screwed by a great pass.  My biggest regret about the game is that we were unwilling on offense to simply pile up 5-8 yard plays underneath.  Sam throws better underneath than deep IMHO. Insteadwe kept insisting on pressing deep and then punting. Just take what they were giving.  Run their best players on the corners deep and dump underneath and let athleticisim take over.  Biggest play of the game was exactly this sort (after we dug a hole and had to go on 4th due to failed deep ball) for what I think may have been our longest play from scrimmage this season.  IF we keep LSU off the field and playing from behind there simply is no thread titled "So our defense, is garbage."

I might also point out that LSU's first TD drive was assisted by the inability of the referees to note that LSU substituted, and did not allow Texas to sub, resulting in offsides.  It was went ahead on a drive where 2nd and 9 at the 27 to 1st an 5 at our 22. Simply a clear error by the referees gave LSU 4 yards and a free play. We should have taken care of our business and made the referees a non-factor.  But none of Texas' scoring was aided by errant calls.  

Keep the weaker unit off the field and they won't look nearly as bad.  Perhaps instituting LSU's cramp time out and regroup method might have also helped our young unit.  Burrows was the guy who won the game for LSU.  His accuracy made our defense look weak. Again, LSU is pretty good. And sometimes in sports the other guy is pretty damn good too! I think we gave a strong effort and had our garbage defense been awarded the fumble late in the game, words like "garbage" would be "great," instead. So between LSU cramp time outs for the defense and a little zebra help for their offense our boys fell a hair short. Still a TD early from the five perhaps...

Edited September 9, 2019 by horn4life