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3rd Democratic Debate - Houston


Hank Kingsley

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Just now, Hugo Stiglitz said:

He was bad but still exceeded everyone’s low bar expectations.  His eye did burst, he managed to keep his teeth in his mouth, and savagely butchered an answer on a slavery question.  

Very presidential 

He started out fine (for him). But after that first break, Biden began to decline noticeably which led to those rambling records-at-night and losing-his-dentures moments.

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Bernie actually was more likable for me tonight.  Maybe it’s being so grateful he finally dislodged that loogie.  That and I caught that junkyard dog giving a warm side smile or two.

If I had to share a foxhole with one of those, it’d be Booker.  Genuinely good man and I’d prefer to die next to that optimism.

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I missed the first half of the debate due to a conflict and haven't sat down to view it yet, but my short take on the second half was still very pro Warren. All the rest had good and bad moments, I like Buttigieg, angry Beto, and if Klubuchar didn't put me to sleep, she was okay. I wish the candidates had more time per question because sometimes one would say something interesting but then never explain 'why' it (programs they had implemented) worked.

 

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2 minutes ago, David Dennison said:

After watching the highlights of this debate, I'm glad I've already made my decision so that they have no bearing on my primary vote. These things serve no purpose.

With 10 people on the stage, I agree that these debates are pretty worthless. A candidate can basically plan out everything they want to say in advance.

Get it down to 5-6 people and it becomes more interesting. 

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9 hours ago, BradInATX said:

Biden did a lot better than a lot of you want to talk yourselves into believing. Warren was solid. Bernie was Bernie. I think all of the top 3 probably feel good with their performances.

Biden isn't going anywhere but down and I'm afraid that is the same for Bernie.  They'll make it a slog but it won't be either.  Would be much more productive if it is sooner rather than later.

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26 minutes ago, Js1 said:

It was a 3 hour debate with 10 people.  I'd rather each candidate got 18 minutes - 6 pre-chosen topics, 3 min to say your shit for each: 

Healthcare

Guns

Women's rights

Climate change

SCOTUS

Race / CJ reform

Corruption needs to be its own topic since it’s the underlying roadblock to literally every issue listed. 

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Beto with a home run tonight.

Biden did a lot better than a lot of you want to talk yourselves into believing. Warren was solid. Bernie was Bernie. I think all of the top 3 probably feel good with their performances.

Pete had a couple of great points but came off as too wonky. Nothing memorable. Hillaryesque.

Harris and Castro both probably ended their campaigns.

Booker, Klobuchar and whoever I'm forgetting.. eh. Forgettable.
Agree with all except Biden. He looked senile, and unable to articulate much more than " I was VP for Obama". All the Hillary entitlement none of the articulated policy. He got murdered. He needs to withdraw.

Trans Am meme Biden is the only good Biden.
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Biden - JFC, start strong, fizzle out.  At least he didn't 30330 his diaper this time.  But his debate performance is basically mirroring his campaign - strong start, slowly degrading over the course of the campaign.  He's not mentally well enough to sustain this for another 14 months. 

Bernie - was there, yelling a lot

Liz - was there in the beginning during the M4A discussion.  then she kinda left in the middle.  then she came back 

Harris - too many canned lines.  a few landed (opening, closing).  more didn't (yes we can joke).  I like turning it back on Trump during the healthcare debate - HELLO REPUBLICANS WANT TO REPEAL OBAMACARE WITH NO REPLACEMENT.  can we continue to talk more about that?  

Pete - he was there?

Beto - man he really is fucking pissed off and everyone knows it

Booker - for someone polling in 8th, he sure got a lot of time to talk.  he says a lot of things.

Castro - god he's suck an entitled douche canoe. go away.

Yang - UBI, UBI, Asian joke, UBI, UBI, UBI.  The Asian joke was his best moment.  

Klobuchar - stop trying to make female Biden happen, it's not going to happen

 

The only takeaway after 3 debates is if you are a person of color going after Joe Biden (Harris, Booker, Castro), prepare for the mainstream establishment media to turn on you.  The white-knighting for Uncle Joe will continue until his polling improves. 

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I missed the first hour of the debate, but thoughts after sleeping on it.  

Kamala - She went from hardcore prosecutor bulldog in the 1st debate to aloof wine mom cracking jokes in the 3rd debate. It all comes off as an undisciplined campaign in disarray that focuses on strategy more than authenticity. 

Pete - didn't move the needle. He needs fewer people on the stage to stand out. 

Klobuchar - Seeing positive reviews from people. I don't get it. She does nothing for me. 

Beto - very good performance. I appreciate his focus on gun control but not sure if voters will re-engage him seriously as a presidential candidate yet. 

Castro - Bold move to channel the Big Smug Asshole Energy. Whoops. He's done. 

Yang - Good dude but hard for me to take him seriously. 

Booker - another passionate and solid performance but I just don't fully buy it. He's got some political skeletons in the closet that no one has really paid attention to due to his low polling numbers. 

Warren - Solid as usual

Bernie - Another authentic performance. Love him. 

Biden - shouldn't be running. Period. 

 

 

IMO the biggest takeaway from the night is Kamala's really fading. 

 

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6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

I’m liking Castro more as someone that could take on Trump in a debate.  He’s such an asshole but emotionally sophisticated enough to transition from policy wonk to infuriating dick head without skipping a beat. 

He has no shot at the nomination but the dude can make hay on a debate stage. 

Yeah, hard fucking pass. 

The last thing we need is a D candidate trying to out asshole Donald Trump. 

 

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1 hour ago, David Dennison said:

After watching the highlights of this debate, I'm glad I've already made my decision so that they have no bearing on my primary vote. These things serve no purpose.

These things may serve no purpose for you.  But as someone who is genuinely undecided, they're very helpful for me.

After the first debate, I was very pro-Harris.  I'm still ok with Harris on the theory that I think the primary issue facing America over the next four years is ridding Washington of the corruption that Trump has brought.  And I wouldn't mind having Kamala the Cop leading the charge on that, because I think she will do so ruthlessly.  And I'm in the mood for ruthlessness.

That's why I don't support Biden.  I think he plays by the old rules.  I think he'd pardon Trump.  And I can't abide that.

But look--last night left me feeling that Biden wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.  I'm far from sold on him.  I remain skeptical of his stamina and his want-to that is needed for a long campaign against a vicious campaigner.  But I think he's still probably win.  And he'd probably be an ok president.

Boy, doesn't that sound nice just now.

I was out on Beto.  Now I'm back in.  Passionate Beto is best Beto.  I might throw him a few bucks.

I remain interested in Booker and Klobuchar.  The characterization of Klobuchar as a "female Biden" isn't a bad one.  And actually, that sounds kind of good.  She wins the general election easily.  And I think she would be a fine president.  She may not deliver the full progressive wet dream.  But here's a secret--neither will Elizabeth Warren.

I like Elizabeth Warren personally.  I just don't like a lot of her policies.  Her sidestepping of the questions about where the money is going to come from for her proposals was telling.  And concerning.  She doesn't seem to have a plan for that.

Julian Castro is finished.  His political career is over.  I've previously said "fuck him" for not running in 2018.  But now I'm revising that.  Now I thank him for not running in 2018, because his an insufferable douche.  He would have hurt the ticket had he run for governor or lt. governor in 2018.  The Texas Democratic Party is better off without him.

 

 

So that's where I am today.  That'll probably all change after the next debate.

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Watched most of each debate so far. Did we learn anything new tonight about any candidate's positions other than Beto's proposed forced buy back? If there were few points to be made with new substance, I thought Booker at least showed a decent sense of humor and likability. 

 

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10 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

These things may serve no purpose for you.  But as someone who is genuinely undecided, they're very helpful for me.

...

But look--last night left me feeling that Biden wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.  I'm far from sold on him.  I remain skeptical of his stamina and his want-to that is needed for a long campaign against a vicious campaigner.  But I think he's still probably win.  And he'd probably be an ok president.

Boy, doesn't that sound nice just now.

...

I remain interested in Booker and Klobuchar.  The characterization of Klobuchar as a "female Biden" isn't a bad one.  And actually, that sounds kind of good.  She wins the general election easily.  And I think she would be a fine president.  She may not deliver the full progressive wet dream.  But here's a secret--neither will Elizabeth Warren.

I like Elizabeth Warren personally.  I just don't like a lot of her policies.  Her sidestepping of the questions about where the money is going to come from for her proposals was telling.  And concerning.  She doesn't seem to have a plan for that.

Julian Castro is finished.  His political career is over.  I've previously said "fuck him" for not running in 2018.  But now I'm revising that.  Now I thank him for not running in 2018, because his an insufferable douche.  He would have hurt the ticket had he run for governor or lt. governor in 2018.  The Texas Democratic Party is better off without him.

 

 

So that's where I am today.  That'll probably all change after the next debate.

FTFM... The more I see Klobuchar, the more I like her. 

 

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2 minutes ago, bad_teammate said:

Attacking the front-runner is a common play. I don't think anyone in the race cares enough about Castro to coordinate with him.

You're most likely correct. But since Castro and the LaBolt both worked in the Obama administration it caught my attention. 

 

Edited by Hank Kingsley
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I support some plan to contain/reduce college tuition and helping younger generations not be saddled with student loan debt for their adult lives, but individuals should have to qualify for student loan debt/reduction.  That can take a lot of different forms.  Most of us probably know people who accessed student loans simply to get their hands on a cash stream to make ends meet without any real intent to pursue a college degree or any real concept of/intent to how they'd pay off the debt (I've encountered this multiple times).  So no, some number of folks should not be bailed out for living off borrowed cash until it runs out then folding.

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37 minutes ago, Ghost of LL said:

Her sidestepping of the questions about where the money is going to come from for her proposals was telling.  And concerning.  She doesn't seem to have a plan for that.

It’s interesting you interpret it that way.  That you think she’s what?, just winging it?  

She explains how she is going to pay for every plan she has.  It’s kinda hard to explain sophisticated tax policy when you have only 60 seconds to respond and try to resonate with voters on national television.  

As far as MFA, the media repeatedly try to bait her into saying taxes are going to go up on the middle class when the reality is healthcare costs will go down and quality of care will go up.  She focuses on the latter and refuses to give the media the sound byte they’re desperately looking for.  You read that as a failure on her part when she explicitly says the wealthy are going to pay more and the middle class are going to pay less for healthcare, which is the whole fucking point, the bottom line and reducing costs. 

This is the typical republican scare mongering framing of Q&A on healthcare.  

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Just now, triplehorn said:

I support some plan to contain/reduce college tuition and helping younger generations not be saddled with student loan debt for their adult lives, but individuals should have to qualify for student loan debt/reduction.  That can take a lot of different forms.  Most of us probably know people who accessed student loans simply to get their hands on a cash stream to make ends meet without any real intent to pursue a college degree or any real concept of/intent to how they'd pay off the debt (I've encountered this multiple times).  So no, some number of folks should not be bailed out for living off borrowed cash until it runs out then folding.

Financial Aid regulations have changed a lot the last few years. They've gotten a lot more strict on you having to follow your degree plan and only those on your degree plan to receive aid. You have to maintain a 2.0 and you have to successfully complete 67% of your credits. So you can't sign up for four classes and drop a couple or even one and fail another one. They also monitor degree progress. Not as easy to get FA to just live off of now.

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6 minutes ago, Hugo Stiglitz said:

It’s interesting you interpret it that way.  That you think she’s what?, just winging it?  

She explains how she is going to pay for every plan she has.  It’s kinda hard to explain sophisticated tax policy when you have only 60 seconds to respond and try to resonate with voters on national television.  

Call it "sophisticated" if you want.  I think she knows that raising the taxes necessary to pay for her spending is not going to be popular.  Hence the dodge.

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I’m going to make a wild prediction. Warren will back-off Bernie’s Medicare for All plan, introduce her own that includes preserving a private insurance option, and sail her way to the nomination. She will still talk about the great potential benefits of M4A but will position her plan as a near-term solution.

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