Surly Megathread of destruction and doom. [BEWARE VERY DOOMY]

[MillerEP 30311]

Chicago, aggy infringement, they should sue (second video):

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by MillerEP

[washparkhorn 9931]

Some of you act as angry as the ChiCom's when confronted with pro-democracy demonstrators. Hmmm . . . 

Freedom. Do you speak it . . . 

[markstanco 12464]

[/url] Chicago, aggy infringement, they should sue (second video):  

Those are pro democracy demonstrators.

[Bill Brasky 1438]

shoot the first person that lights the first molotov cocktail in the head.   shoot the person throws the first brick at another human in the head.   that will end this riot nonsense pretty quick.  

[markstanco 12464]

Yea, you can't do that.

[washparkhorn 9931]

18 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

shoot the first person that lights the first molotov cocktail in the head.   shoot the person throws the first brick at another human in the head.   that will end this riot nonsense pretty quick.  

Is that you Chairman Mao?

[markstanco 12464]

Is that you Chairman Mao?

Lolol

[Bill Brasky 1438]

1 minute ago, washparkhorn said:

Is that you Chairman Mao?

Saigon fell because I lost it to the Viet Cong in a poker game 

[bolverk 29261]

19 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said:

shoot the first person that lights the first molotov cocktail in the head.   shoot the person throws the first brick at another human in the head.   that will end this riot nonsense pretty quick.  

Or, alternatively, shoot the first cop who shoots someone in the back seven times. That will end this police brutality nonsense pretty quick.

See how that sounds? You need Jesus.

[Brisketexan 104226]

Brisket seems like the type of guy just sitting at home watching riots on tv unfold just wrestling the bald headed champ non stop until he passes out  

I actually don’t watch any of it. I’ve seen it before, I saw it coming here, same shit different day/week/year.

Human nature doesn't destroy other people's belongings that had noting to do with cause of the rage. You are better than that, or at least I hope.

Humans are not better than that. We are still animals - I mean, we literally are. We react in consistent and predictable ways to certain stimuli. Rage is a human reaction and emotion. Again, for the dozenth time, it is irrational. That’s part of the definition of rage.

Burning cars at a Kenosha dealership that makes a huge political snafu by alienating some potential buyers by literally having a sign above a car burning that says "black lives matters".

Do your thing on anger and rage though, brisket.

Peaceful demonstration.

I mean...it’s not my fault that you keep asking “why are people in the throes of an irrational emotional response not acting rationally?” Ask a stupid question....

[Bill Brasky 1438]

38 minutes ago, bolverk said:

Or, alternatively, shoot the first cop who shoots someone in the back seven times. That will end this police brutality nonsense pretty quick.

See how that sounds? You need Jesus.

if the shooting was unjustified i'm all for it

you need balls 

[markstanco 12464]

WOW!
QUOTE: Humans are not better than that. We are still animals - I mean, we literally are. We react in consistent and predictable ways to certain stimuli. Rage is a human reaction and emotion. Again, for the dozenth time, it is irrational. That’s part of the definition of rage

Brisket you are unbelievably incorrect here.

When you rage hard about something do you burn down your neighbors house? I understand (as everybody else) your political views but this is shocking to me that you think it is understandable and justified.

As mentioned above....if some antifa group was to burn your house down and threaten death to your family, you are cool with it yes?

[XYZ 2154]

It seems that y’all are talking past each other here. I don’t think that Brisket is saying that anything is cool. He’s saying when people get mad, they break shit.

[Enchubben 5502]

1 hour ago, bolverk said:

Or, alternatively, shoot the first cop who shoots someone in the back seven times. That will end this police brutality nonsense pretty quick.

See how that sounds? You need Jesus.

Why not both?

[Incredulity 11440]

47 minutes ago, markstanco said:

WOW!
QUOTE: Humans are not better than that. We are still animals - I mean, we literally are. We react in consistent and predictable ways to certain stimuli. Rage is a human reaction and emotion. Again, for the dozenth time, it is irrational. That’s part of the definition of rage

Brisket you are unbelievably incorrect here.

When you rage hard about something do you burn down your neighbors house? I understand (as everybody else) your political views but this is shocking to me that you think it is understandable and justified.

As mentioned above....if some antifa group was to burn your house down and threaten death to your family, you are cool with it yes?

No, no, no, protesting is absolutely forbidden on his block.

[Brisketexan 104226]

It seems that y’all are talking past each other here. I don’t think that Brisket is saying that anything is cool. He’s saying when people get mad, they break shit.

Yeah...I’m not appreciating the straw man bullshit. That’s what I’m saying.

I’m not saying it’s ok, it’s cool, it’s justified, or any of that.

I’m just saying that it is human, natural, and predictable. When people become enraged enough, they lash out indiscriminately and violently. I’ve been plenty mad, but I’ve never been that enraged. But plenty of people have. This isn’t exactly controversial, it’s observed human psychology. There are literally books written about it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/api.nationalgeographic.com/distribution/public/amp/news/2016/02/160207-brain-violence-rage-snap-science-booktalk

Now, I AM saying that if we want to avoid this shit, the smartest play is to have our employees stop fucking shooting people in the back.

[VABuckeye 2472]

3 hours ago, RomaVicta said:

That's some fun irony there. Aren't you and others dismissing a very potent expression of outrage as will to lawlessness? Aren't you dismissing these persons whom you don't know as morally inferior to you?

 

Potent expression of outrage?   So you think it’s ok to loot or burn or destroy someone’s business when they did nothing to harm you?

[washparkhorn 9931]

 

12 minutes ago, VABuckeye said:

So you think it’s ok to loot or burn or destroy someone’s business when they did nothing to harm you?

 

 

Samuel Adams wants a word with you. 

Why do you hate America?

Couch-burner. 

[bad_teammate 13115]

"Cancer kills by screwing up normal body functions and cell reproduction."

- "OH SO I GUESS YOU FUCKING LOVE CANCER HUH!?"

[Rougarou 594]

I see Brisket is back, with his usual solipsism. I actually admire your conviction in the many, many attempts to tell your truth and story in as many different ways as possible, in the hopes that people just don't understand or get what you are trying to convey, but that what you are saying is necessary and right and poignant and needs to be heard...instead of the obvious reality that everyone hears you, considers (or, rather, considered months ago) your position, and then rejects it and then dismisses it. And then comes the confusion with the vanity of your repetition.

It's like a comic who keeps telling the same joke, but nobody laughs, but the comic is convinced it's a really great joke. There is a beauty in it-- in the absurd. There is an artistic integrity in it, too. 

Keep telling your joke, Brisket. I'm here for it.

[Brisketexan 104226]

I see Brisket is back, with his usual solipsism. I actually admire your conviction in the many, many attempts to tell your truth and story in as many different ways as possible, in the hopes that people just don't understand or get what you are trying to convey, but that what you are saying is necessary and right and poignant and needs to be heard...instead of the obvious reality that everyone hears you, considers (or, rather, considered months ago) your position, and then rejects it and then dismisses it. And then comes the confusion with the vanity of your repetition.
It's like a comic who keeps telling the same joke, but nobody laughs, but the comic is convinced it's a really great joke. There is a beauty in it-- in the absurd. There is an artistic integrity in it, too. 
Keep telling your joke, Brisket. I'm here for it.

Cool. So you think I’m in favor of rage-filled protests, and think they are a great outcome.

Gaslight much?

[clapclapclap 9000]

Burning Looting Marxists are rioting again tonight in Kenosha:

 

 

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by clapclapclap
I guess if Brisket and BT are continually spewing their political bullcrap on this thread then I can accurate describe this organized insurrection.

[clapclapclap 9000]

One of several live feeds:

 

[Rougarou 594]

24 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

Cool. So you think I’m in favor of rage-filled protests, and think they are a great outcome.

Gaslight much?

No.

Your bit seems to be more of the wizened message board sage whose "gather 'round and let me unpack the human condition for you all, and tell you about RULE OF LAW and BASE ANIMAL INSTINCTS, a tale as old as time..." who is allegedly above the riotous and looting fray (though, understands it very deeply, you will have us know) and just wants to explain it, as a trusted advisor and expert on these matters, you see.

I don't mean to gaslig-- oop. You're up, your turn on stage-- and I think by the looks of the sophisticated draw of a Monday night, your joke is gonna slay!

Edited August 25, 2020 by Rougarou

[clapclapclap 9000]

 

[fattyflattie 4636]

1 hour ago, Brisketexan said:

I’m just saying that it is human, natural, and predictable. When people become enraged enough, they lash out indiscriminately and violently.

I’m not certain I buy this.  The VAST majority of people don’t. Small subsets obviously do.  I think we are seeing 5% rage, and 95% nihilist  opportunists. 

[immortal13 4059]

6 hours ago, DigglerontheHoof said:

I never have been a Democrat; used to be a Republican but never again. 

Newsflash: no one gives a fuck

[RomaVicta 29704]

2 hours ago, VABuckeye said:

Potent expression of outrage?   So you think it’s ok to loot or burn or destroy someone’s business when they did nothing to harm you?

I think it's petty to focus on a detail within a much broader expression of outrage just to support a person's desire to believe the overall expression is merely general lawlessness. Actually, it's more than petty. It's dishonest.

It's my belief that you are seeing what you're looking for.

[clapclapclap 9000]

 

[BabaYaga 15190]

8 hours ago, Rougarou said:

I see Brisket is back, with his usual solipsism. I actually admire your conviction in the many, many attempts to tell your truth and story in as many different ways as possible, in the hopes that people just don't understand or get what you are trying to convey, but that what you are saying is necessary and right and poignant and needs to be heard...instead of the obvious reality that everyone hears you, considers (or, rather, considered months ago) your position, and then rejects it and then dismisses it. And then comes the confusion with the vanity of your repetition.

It's like a comic who keeps telling the same joke, but nobody laughs, but the comic is convinced it's a really great joke. There is a beauty in it-- in the absurd. There is an artistic integrity in it, too. 

Keep telling your joke, Brisket. I'm here for it.

Or you could have just gone with 'narcissistic twat'.....you booshie summbitch.  

[clapclapclap 9000]

From the first night, another convenient pile of debris:

Also, for those claiming this is totally organic and local, and can't possibly have anything to do with Chicago, Kenosha is actually an edge suburb of Chicago, 50 miles north of downtown and connected by a commuter rail line and continuous suburbs in between.  Less than an hours drive.  It's also 30 miles from Milwaukee with similar commuting patterns.  About the same distance as San Marcos from Austin.

Edited August 25, 2020 by clapclapclap

[Armybrat 40648]

9 hours ago, washparkhorn said:

 

 

 

Samuel Adams wants a word with you. 

Why do you hate America?

Couch-burner. 

So, where’s the beer?

[clapclapclap 9000]

Remember the mostly peaceful protester caught on video stabbing someone at one of the Portland riots?  He got bailed out by one of the GoFundMe groups created to get 'protesters' released (after it had already been revealed that he was previously convicted of possessing child porn.)

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/convicted-pedophile-antifa-member-bailed-out-in-portland/

[Onboard 2.0 9083]

11 minutes ago, clapclapclap said:

Remember the mostly peaceful protester caught on video stabbing someone at one of the Portland riots?  He got bailed out by one of the GoFundMe groups created to get 'protesters' released (after it had already been revealed that he was previously convicted of possessing child porn.)

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/convicted-pedophile-antifa-member-bailed-out-in-portland/

Peaceful pedophiles ?

[Hmmm 155]

9 hours ago, fattyflattie said:

I’m not certain I buy this.  The VAST majority of people don’t. Small subsets obviously do.  I think we are seeing 5% rage, and 95% nihilist  opportunists. 

This is where I'm at.  Though, I might suggest better words than "nihilist opportunists" if I could think of a few.   Rage, as defined by many, is violent and uncontrollable anger.  I'd estimate more than 90% of this is controllable, premeditated anger.  If it weren't premeditated, there would be no planning at all.  And while the planning is minimal for the most part, there is still some sort of planning.

[BNB 100]

[Hmmm 155]

12 hours ago, Brisketexan said:

Humans are not better than that. We are still animals - I mean, we literally are. We react in consistent and predictable ways to certain stimuli. Rage is a human reaction and emotion. Again, for the dozenth time, it is irrational. That’s part of the definition of rage.
 

I wouldn't say rage is predictable by any means.  How can you predict the irrational?  Maybe you're contesting that the result of rage is predictable, which I would argue, is still very unpredictable.  Comparing human to animals is well... short-sighted.  Also, very racist.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Hmmm

[fattyflattie 4636]

2 minutes ago, Hmmm said:

This is where I'm at.  Though, I might suggest better words than "nihilist opportunists" if I could think of a few.   Rage, as defined by many, is violent and uncontrollable anger.  I'd estimate more than 90% of this is controllable, premeditated anger.  If it weren't premeditated, there would be no planning at all.  And while the planning is minimal for the most part, there is still some sort of planning.

I think my figures were off.  I think its less than 5% pure rage.  I also think there is a subset of bad actors trying to demean the cause (umbrella man).  But I think the most are people who have nothing better to do, for various reasons and societal issues, that also dgaf about not burning shit.  Most people can get pissed and not loot.  Most can be pissed and not set things on fire.  I'm certain most of these people believe insurance is going to either pick up the bill, or they just haven't thought about what this is doing to their neighbors.  No one is thinking ahead.  It doesn't hurt Louis Vuitton when a store gets looted in Chicago, in the grand scheme of things.  It hurts the black community.  Their peers are going to be the ones profiled in that shop for the next 10 years, and like that, we are no longer moving forward.  

[Brisketexan 104226]

1 minute ago, Hmmm said:

I wouldn't say rage is predictable by any means.  Maybe you're contesting that the result of rage is predictable, which I would argue, is still very unpredictable.  Comparing human to animals is well... short-sighted.  Also, very racist.

Sure rage is predictable.  You can purposefully provoke people into rage, knowing what buttons to push.  The result is both predictable and unpredictable -- it's predictably violent/lashing out, but you're right, the direction of that lashing out is indeed unpredictable.

And as for comparing humans to animals, there's not comparison -- we literally ARE animals.  All of us, regardless of race.  We have certain stimulus/response features that aren't particularly intellectual.  It's why beer ads feature women with big boobs.  That features isn't intended to appeal to or intellect.  

Which all just takes me back to the only point I tried to make at the beginning: repeatedly treating people like shit will inevitably provoke a rage response, which will inevitably include violence/lashing out in some direction.  So, as a society, our best path is to work to make sure that our institutions and employees don't repeatedly treat people like shit.  Vabuckeye and I seemed to be making some progress on that discussion.

[BabaYaga 15190]

1 minute ago, BNB said:

 

 

 

 

 

It's just rehashed critical theory/pedagogy, neo-marxist nonsense baked in with a set of binary absolutes.  Dr James Lindsay breaks this nonsense down quite nicely.  

 

[Hmmm 155]

1 minute ago, Brisketexan said:

Sure rage is predictable.  You can purposefully provoke people into rage, knowing what buttons to push.  The result is both predictable and unpredictable -- it's predictably violent/lashing out, but you're right, the direction of that lashing out is indeed unpredictable.

And as for comparing humans to animals, there's not comparison -- we literally ARE animals.  All of us, regardless of race.  We have certain stimulus/response features that aren't particularly intellectual.  It's why beer ads feature women with big boobs.  That features isn't intended to appeal to or intellect.  

Which all just takes me back to the only point I tried to make at the beginning: repeatedly treating people like shit will inevitably provoke a rage response, which will inevitably include violence/lashing out in some direction.  So, as a society, our best path is to work to make sure that our institutions and employees don't repeatedly treat people like shit.  Vabuckeye and I seemed to be making some progress on that discussion.

I get where you're coming from.  I just think rage is more immediate.  Is there a word for where people gather around and their energy amps each other up to where it gets uncontrollable?  Because that's what I'm seeing and maybe that is rage.  But it's not immediate reaction, which I tend to think of rage.  And by immediate, I mean not premeditated.

[Brisketexan 104226]

4 minutes ago, Hmmm said:

I get where you're coming from.  I just think rage is more immediate.  Is there a word for where people gather around and their energy amps each other up to where it gets uncontrollable?  Because that's what I'm seeing and maybe that is rage.  But it's not immediate reaction, which I tend to think of rage.  And by immediate, I mean not premeditated.

I'm certainly not aware of the terminology, but sure, "the mob" is a thing.  What an individual wouldn't do, a mob might.  Two guys together and pissed off probably won't torch a building.  An angry mob of 500 is a lot more likely to do so.  It's layers upon layers.  

You start with people who don't feel particularly vested in society because society isn't vested in them.  When society looks at you and treats you like shit, then you don't think too much of society to begin with.  So, when a trigger event happens, you don't have far to travel in your head to a "fuck the whole fucking world" conclusion.  I mean, it's a lot like coming home to see your wife already in a bad move and pissed off because the kids have been shits all day.....you tread carefully, because you know that if you do ANYTHING to piss her off, she's gonna blow the fuck up.

Then, you add on the frustration of the triggering event being the same thing they've been pissed off about, year after year, only to be told repeatedly to shut the fuck up, back the blue, etc.  That amps up the frustration and anger.

Then, you add in a group dynamic -- the mob feeds on itself and its energy, especially if that energy is anger/rage.

It's still not "premeditated," even though it's not as immediate as a reflexive swing of the fist.  It's got its own momentum and energy.

Where I come from is this: we all seem to agree that having mobs run around town and lighting shit on fire is bad.  So, what's the most effective way to keep that from happening?  It sure seems like the smartest thing would be to 1) reduce the flammability of the tinder, and 2) get our employees/institutions to stop tossing matches at the pile of tinder.  If your interest is in domestic peace and tranquility, you should have a greater interest than anyone in getting our police to stop fucking provoking these reactions, over and over, with complete predictability.  You should have a greater interest than anyone in working to build a dynamic where poor and minority communities don't look at the police as a dominating, cruel enemy, but rather as a force for good that can be trusted.  If we did those things, then the fire danger goes way down.  And an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and all that.

[MillerEP 30311]

 

[Incredulity 11440]

surprised it took this long to come to that.

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

6 minutes ago, MillerEP said:

 

It wasn't a warning shot.  He shot one of those people in the face.  There is a longer video.

[Incredulity 11440]

7 minutes ago, Brisketexan said:

I'm certainly not aware of the terminology, but sure, "the mob" is a thing.  What an individual wouldn't do, a mob might.  Two guys together and pissed off probably won't torch a building.  An angry mob of 500 is a lot more likely to do so.  It's layers upon layers.  

You start with people who don't feel particularly vested in society because society isn't vested in them.  When society looks at you and treats you like shit, then you don't think too much of society to begin with.  So, when a trigger event happens, you don't have far to travel in your head to a "fuck the whole fucking world" conclusion.  I mean, it's a lot like coming home to see your wife already in a bad move and pissed off because the kids have been shits all day.....you tread carefully, because you know that if you do ANYTHING to piss her off, she's gonna blow the fuck up.

Then, you add on the frustration of the triggering event being the same thing they've been pissed off about, year after year, only to be told repeatedly to shut the fuck up, back the blue, etc.  That amps up the frustration and anger.

Then, you add in a group dynamic -- the mob feeds on itself and its energy, especially if that energy is anger/rage.

It's still not "premeditated," even though it's not as immediate as a reflexive swing of the fist.  It's got its own momentum and energy.

Where I come from is this: we all seem to agree that having mobs run around town and lighting shit on fire is bad.  So, what's the most effective way to keep that from happening?  It sure seems like the smartest thing would be to 1) reduce the flammability of the tinder, and 2) get our employees/institutions to stop tossing matches at the pile of tinder.  If your interest is in domestic peace and tranquility, you should have a greater interest than anyone in getting our police to stop fucking provoking these reactions, over and over, with complete predictability.  You should have a greater interest than anyone in working to build a dynamic where poor and minority communities don't look at the police as a dominating, cruel enemy, but rather as a force for good that can be trusted.  If we did those things, then the fire danger goes way down.  And an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and all that.

Hold people accountable for their actions.

[MillerEP 30311]

1 minute ago, Cousin Strawberry said:

It wasn't a warning shot.  He shot one of those people in the face.  There is a longer video.

I'll see if I can find it.

[Cousin Strawberry 1261]

Just now, MillerEP said:

I'll see if I can find it.

story

https://www.post-gazette.com/news/crime-courts/2020/08/25/Protest-marcher-shot-bedford-county-pennsylvania-frank-nitty/stories/202008250075

video

https://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhKOi32183cR1N586N

[Brisketexan 104226]

3 minutes ago, Incredulity said:

Hold people accountable for their actions.

That's certainly part of it.  I presume that you also mean hold police officers accountable for acts of brutality, lying, profiling, etc.....and those police officers who allow their fellow officers to commit such misconduct, hold them accountable, too.  And sure thing, hold accountable anyone who lights a building on fire and such.  But note that we already have a pretty effective system for dealing with those folks.  For dealing with the cops, not so much....thus, the fucking problem.

And even then, underneath that, if your entire system for creating a well-functioning group (whether that be society or an individual family unit) is "PUNISH ALL WRONGDOERS," you are in for a world of shit.  A high-functioning group builds peace and order not just through punishment -- which should actually be the LAST line of defense -- but by building a mutually beneficial unit (that is, everyone benefits from the structure, with some modicum of fairness), instilling collective values of respect, honesty, and ethics.  My kids are pretty well-behaved.  That's not because I will punish them if they do wrong (although I will, and I have).  It's because we did our best to build in the values of being part of a mutually beneficial group (our family), where everyone can depend on and trust each other.  It's not perfect, but it's significantly higher functioning than a group dynamic built almost entirely on "if you do wrong, you will be punished severely."

Instill decent values in your kids and don't treat them like shit, and you're a lot less likely to be dealing with rebellious shitheads later on.

Do the same with society as a whole, and we'll be a lot less likely to deal with civil unrest later on.

That doesn't mean that there will no longer be a need for law enforcement, consequences, and punishment, but it sure means that you can reduce the need, and keep outbursts relatively manageable.

[BabaYaga 15190]

Jacob Blake Video

Not sure if already posted, but we have significantly more information about how the events unfolded.  

1. He was in fact armed with a knife (you can hear in the video someone told him to drop the knife, which was why the cops were called in the first place)
2. They had attempted to restrain him on the other side of the car but the original edited video doesn't show that.  
3. They knew he was a violent felon with warrant for having a gun
4. Did not try to escape but tried reaching under his seat (where a lot of people store their guns)
5. He was not breaking up a fight, but was actively brandishing a knife, thus the police call.
6. A taser had been deployed but failed.

So when he had a knife, had a warrant for brandishing a gun before, and acted like he was going to get his gun?  Maybe don't do those three things before getting into a fight with a cop that was called on you.  They weren't just driving by and happened to see something and stopped.