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TEXAS QB TALK


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3 hours ago, Longhorn94 said:

go watch Card's senior game against North Shore. kid was under duress the whole game and he was nails. same for his senior year game against Westlake. he is a grinder. he battles and competes and never gives up. 

i know yall havent seen it yet but just wait. the kid is the real deal. he is excellent from the pocket but even better on the move. wait till he gets comfortable and then he will be a machine carving up the defense with accurate flat throws and then punishing them with his sub 4 sec shuttle when the pocket breaks down and he has to use his legs. 

i want what is best for UT. and i will be honest, after the Colorado game, i thought that was probably Casey. but now, im starting to think the Colorado game was fool's gold. I still think Casey is really good but just maybe not as good as he looked in the bowl game.

I think Sark is playing this right. But at this point, I would be surprised if Card doesnt win the job outright. Either way, I am confident Sark will actually let them earn/win the job and we will be successful with whomever that is.

You were also convinced that Garrett Wilson would be a Horn.  I think you're a bit slanted when it comes to LT players. 

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26 minutes ago, Run Run Run Punt said:

You were also convinced that Garrett Wilson would be a Horn.  I think you're a bit slanted when it comes to LT players. 

There is NO DOUBT your statement is 100% true but it doesnt mean i am wrong about Card.

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Card's ability to throw WRs open will be the difference at the end of the day. A subpar WR group will look miles better when the QB artificially creates a couple yards of separation. 

Can you define “throw(ing) WRs open?” Does a back shoulder throw fall into that definition?

And then let’s extrapolate from the spring game. Is that 5% or less of throws? If so, that won’t make a difference.

All QBs with any amount of throws have many completions in which the WR is not really open.

That Farve guy probably has the all time record of throwing guys open. He also threw lots on INTs.

I’m just not sure how one can artificially create separation. It’s ultimately a calculated risk. Is Card a bigger risk taker and will this staff allow that risk to be taken? To me that’s the question.
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6 minutes ago, BurntOrange&White said:

He means throwing to a spot where the receiver will be and in a location the defender can't get to.

Yep. Knowing when and where windows will open is essential. Even WRs that fail to separate are open all the time just need somebody to put it in there. 

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5 hours ago, Had Enough said:


Can you define “throw(ing) WRs open?” Does a back shoulder throw fall into that definition?

And then let’s extrapolate from the spring game. Is that 5% or less of throws? If so, that won’t make a difference.

All QBs with any amount of throws have many completions in which the WR is not really open.

That Farve guy probably has the all time record of throwing guys open. He also threw lots on INTs.

I’m just not sure how one can artificially create separation. It’s ultimately a calculated risk. Is Card a bigger risk taker and will this staff allow that risk to be taken? To me that’s the question.

Connecting on 5% more throws where the receiver is thrown open would seem to be a difference maker in a race where both QB’s are essentially equal otherwise. 

Casey threw Brewer open in the Alamo Bowl. He seems to see and execute a layered passing attack quite well. That pairs nicely with a strong rushing attack. Card, otoh, seems to see and anticipate holes of the defense in a more on schedule manner.

it may be that Casey’s escapability and layered passing is needed more than Card’s more structured ability this year, but I think Card’s game wins out once pass pro tightens up and we have more toys at the skill positions. 

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Well sure that 5% matters if they are otherwise equal. So I guess we’re saying Card has better “arm talent.” Card may win the job but it will be the totality of his game. Even if he is capable of fitting the ball into tight windows, the rest of his game must be on par with Thompson. Just an opinion but I don’t think it comes down to that.

Tom Brady pretty much sucks in several accuracy categories per pro football focus. His bad ball percentage and accuracy rates were amongst the worst in the league last year. Like Carson Wentz/Drew Lock level. Infer of that what you will.

My inference is that a lot goes into the QB play. But many fans, even today, view Brady as a very accurate Qb.

Would you rather have the 65% accurate guy with none thrown open or the the 65% guy with 5% thrown open with a 1% higher INT rate?

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3 minutes ago, Had Enough said:

Well sure that 5% matters if they are otherwise equal. So I guess we’re saying Card has better “arm talent.” Card may win the job but it will be the totality of his game. Even if he is capable of fitting the ball into tight windows, the rest of his game must be on par with Thompson. Just an opinion but I don’t think it comes down to that.

Tom Brady pretty much sucks in several accuracy categories per pro football focus. His bad ball percentage and accuracy rates were amongst the worst in the league last year. Like Carson Wentz/Drew Lock level. Infer of that what you will.

My inference is that a lot goes into the QB play. But many fans, even today, view Brady as a very accurate Qb.

Would you rather have the 65% accurate guy with none thrown open or the the 65% guy with 5% thrown open with a 1% higher INT rate?

You’re conflating throwing guys open, ie anticipating when a receiver makes his move and will create separation with forcing passes into tight windows. Sark and draft analysts talk about how Mac Jones anticipates and throws to open space instead of waiting until his recovers actually get open to throw. That’s what we’re talking about with Card. Doing that will actually reduce picks and sacks. 

If one QB throws guys open and the other doesn’t, then there’s no chance they’ll have the same completion percentage. 

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I’m really not. Anticipating guys coming open has always been an element of QBing. It always will be. But risk is absolutely an element of anticipating. More anticipation equals more risk. Risk will entail a greater interception rate but potentially bigger rewards. Often stronger armed guys are bigger risk takers so ultimately they will have more of these wow throws.

But it is impossible to quantify that so yeah my scenario is bogus to an extent. Ultimately it’s just a catch phrase that isn’t well defined because it’s merely based on a feel and includes some but not all anticipated throws with some wow factor added in.
I’ve heard it used often. It’s not universally used or again quantified. PFF probably has something close but it’s not really used by announcers and talking heads.

But that’s fine. Y’all win. Not worth a debate.

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It’s just something some QBs have and some don’t. Can’t put numbers on it but it’s what separates the average from good and good from great. Brees is exceptional at it and so was Manning

I ain’t debating nothing but Brees rated high even to the very end of his career on those pff accuracy ratios. My guess is that would be the case every year of his career.
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On 2/17/2021 at 8:32 AM, TreatyOak said:

Our Chaps put a lot of pressure on him in 2017 & 2018. He is very fast and elusive, but he was sacked repeatably and threw INTs in both those games, which were losses for LT. He also was under a tremendous amount of pressure during their two playoff losses to North Shore. In the first game, he never was able to get going, as the game was a total beat-down. In the second, after falling into a really deep hole, he did an outstanding job of bringing the team back. His greatest performance by far was in a state championship loss his freshman or sophomore year vs Allen, in which he had to come into the game after the starter went down and after a rough start, managed to bring LT all the way back and nearly pull off an amazing victory. His scrambling ability vs North Shore and Allen kept LT in the games.

I remember watching that game vs. Allen now... I feel better.

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In the state championship game this year, Ewers showed an incredible pure throwing ability the likes of I’ve never seen before by a HS QB. He could make all the throws but was not as mobile as Klubnick. Westlake knew they could tee off on him and he would win some battles (dude was great) but was static enough to throw two picks that were the difference. 

Klubnick has a better team (Go Chaps - #sorrynotsorry) around him but his deadly combination of mobility and controlled throwing game resulted in him deservedly being named the MVP. He was 18-20 and ran all over the mullet weirdos from Southlake Carroll. 
 

I think this is a fair analogy for Thompson and Card. Thompson’s game might be more valuable for Texas. He may not be as good a pure thrower as Card but this ain’t the pros.

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7 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

In the state championship game this year, Ewers showed an incredible pure throwing ability the likes of I’ve never seen before by a HS QB. He could make all the throws but was not as mobile as Klubnick. Westlake knew they could tee off on him and he would win some battles (dude was great) but was static enough to throw two picks that were the difference. 

Klubnick has a better team (Go Chaps - #sorrynotsorry) around him but his deadly combination of mobility and controlled throwing game resulted in him deservedly being named the MVP. He was 18-20 and ran all over the mullet weirdos from Southlake Carroll. 
 

I think this is a fair analogy for Thompson and Card. Thompson’s game might be more valuable for Texas. He may not be as good a pure thrower as Card but this ain’t the pros.

You know Ewers wasn’t 100% right?

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Thing is Card forced fewer throws and took care of the ball better than Thompson, without the supposed "1s" around him.  Casey looked about the same as vs Colorado, except Jamison actually held on to the pick six unlike the CU db that had the ball bounce off his chest.

I don't see how that equates Casey to Klubs and Card to Ewers

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1 hour ago, BurntOrange&White said:

You know Ewers wasn’t 100% right?

Yes, I know he had put off surgery for the game, but he isn't close to being the runner that Klubnick is, who was a standout in track and field this spring. If you watch the highlights, Klubnick shows some really impressive speed and was able to outrace defenders time and time again. Ewers s a traditional pocket passer (and a damn good one). 

 

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On 4/26/2021 at 1:26 PM, Longhorn94 said:

There is NO DOUBT your statement is 100% true but it doesnt mean i am wrong about Card.

And according to a family member of his who happens to be a friend of mine, Garrett would’ve been a Longhorn if we offered earlier 

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10 hours ago, TreatyOak said:

Yes, I know he had put off surgery for the game, but he isn't close to being the runner that Klubnick is, who was a standout in track and field this spring. If you watch the highlights, Klubnick shows some really impressive speed and was able to outrace defenders time and time again. Ewers s a traditional pocket passer (and a damn good one). 

 

No, he literally was coming off surgery about midway through the playoffs, missed quite a few game last year because of it. Watch his sophmore highlights and compare. Ofc he doesn't have the straight line speed Klubnick has but he's quick in the pocket and has more speed than he showed in the title game. 

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2 hours ago, BurntOrange&White said:

No, he literally was coming off surgery about midway through the playoffs, missed quite a few game last year because of it. Watch his sophmore highlights and compare. Ofc he doesn't have the straight line speed Klubnick has but he's quick in the pocket and has more speed than he showed in the title game. 

Thanks for the clarification. I was comparing Ewers as Card and Klubnick as Thompson to make the point that the lesser-thrower-but-better-runner may be better for our system. 

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3 hours ago, TreatyOak said:

Thanks for the clarification. I was comparing Ewers as Card and Klubnick as Thompson to make the point that the lesser-thrower-but-better-runner may be better for our system. 

are we not running the same system Bama did last year?

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6 hours ago, hookem48 said:

are we not running the same system Bama did last year?

I honestly have no idea what we are running. But based on our current offensive line, “running” is something I think our QB is going to have to be doing a lot of if he values his health. 

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9 minutes ago, TreatyOak said:

I honestly have no idea what we are running. But based on our current offensive line, “running” is something I think our QB is going to have to be doing a lot of if he values his health. 

I’m not sure that analogy works anyway but it’s flawed from the jump if you are assuming that Thompson is on a different level as a runner compared to Card. Athletically they profile pretty similarly. 

Regardless, all evidence from his career points to Sarkisian looking for the guy that can get the ball out quickly and to the right read in the face of pressure. Not the guy who can run for his life and improvise better.

 

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Thx for this TARS...

WHERE THINGS STAND WITH TEXAS' QB COMPETITION

By FUCK CHIP BROWN          6 hours ago

Talked to several team sources this week about what to take away — and what NOT to take away — about where things stand with the quarterback competition between Casey Thompson and Hudson Card following UT’s 15 spring practices.

Those I talked to said there was a lot to like about the springs of both quarterbacks.

When you ask about the arm talent of Card and his ability to throw with anticipation (like we saw when Card threw Marcus Washington open on a 6-yard touchdown pass in the Orange-White game), team sources say they saw those kinds of passes from Card all throughout the spring.

When it comes to making short and intermediate throws through windows from a clean pocket, Card is hard to beat. The guy throws spiraled strikes.

If we were to make comparisons to a baseball pitcher, Card has an excellent fastball - best on the team. He can touch every part of the field with his arm.

But one of the things on Card’s to-do list for the summer is throwing with more touch on deep balls and on throws against zone coverage that require dropping the ball over a linebacker and in front of a safety.

Card had a wildly overthrown deep ball in the Orange-White game “because he threw a fastball through the window when he needed to drop one in the bucket,” a source said.

The throw that impressed UT coaches most from Thompson was the 34-yard strike to Joshua Moore that Moore couldn’t hang onto in the end zone on the Orange team’s first drive, because Thompson saw the safety make a false step and immediately let go of the ball.

"Both of these guys have put in a ton of work, learning not only the offense, but the technique and details of the position within the offense," a source said.

Right now, Thompson is doing a better job of making plays when the pass rush forces him to reset or when he gets completely flushed from the pocket.

Thompson had a couple plays in the Alamo Bowl in which he had to reset in the pocket because of the pass rush - and Thompson was able to keep his eyes downfield and find tight end Cade Brewer for a nice gain (just outside the reach of a defender, where only Brewer could catch it) and again when he stepped up and hit Kelvontay Dixon in stride on a 73-yard deep strike touchdown.

We saw that again in the Orange-White game when Thompson got flushed to his right on third-and-8 in the second quarter, and Thompson completed a throw on the run for 23 yards to Jordan Whittington.

Card and Thompson can both be elusive athletes in the open field, but being elusive is a double-edged sword when it comes to leaving the pocket.

Both quarterbacks need to do a better job of stepping up in the pocket, and if there’s no checkdown available and a lane to run out of the front of the pocket, then it’s OK to take off.

But feeling pressure and going out the back of the pocket increases the probability of a negative play, and is not acceptable. It can be a hard habit to break for a young quarterback. Sam Ehlinger committed that mistake numerous times as a freshman at Texas - and usually paid for it with a negative play. Heisman Trophy winner Johnny Manziel never learned that lesson. He got away with it in college, but it caught up to him in the NFL.

Card has to break that habit. In the Orange-White game, Card sensed a rush that got picked up, fled the back of the pocket and ran right into a sack. Card suffered the majority of sacks in the spring, sources said.

Sources said Thompson and Card both finished the spring with about six interceptions during team situations. Card threw two pick-sixes (one to Josh Thompson, the other to Luke Brockermeyer) and Thompson threw the 92-yard pick-six to D’Shawn Jamison in the Orange-White game.

But coaches felt the good far outweighed the bad for both QBs over the entirety of the spring.

When it comes to field generalship, Thompson is naturally more outgoing and vocal. Coaches are trying to get Card, who is quiet by nature, to be more vocal. Both Thompson and Card are on Steve Sarkisian’s player leadership council, and Thompson speaks up in those meetings quite often, while Card mostly observes.

None of this is deal-breaking stuff that can’t be improved or rectified.

This is merely a snapshot in time of where the quarterback competition is at this moment.

And when Sarkisian says, “I think we’re in a good spot” when it comes to his quarterbacks coming out of the spring, he means it.

And when Sarkisian says, “Both have made tremendous strides with plenty of room for both of those guys to grow,” he means it.

The bottom line is the coaches feel like the current trajectory both quarterbacks are on — with all summer and fall camp to get more comfortable with ALL the offense and technique they’ve been introduced to — will result in high-level play from both Thompson and Card.

Sarkisian will wait until the Monday before the season opener to announce a starter if the competition is that close, and he won’t be swayed by arm talent or plays off schedule, he’ll be swayed by consistency.

The quarterback who has gotten the most comfortable - and consistent - in running the offense by September will be the starter.

Alabama fans thought Sarkisian would pick early enrollee, five-star freshman Bryce Young to be the starting quarterback last year, and Sarkisian went with three-year guy Mac Jones, because Jones was the most consistent. Of course, Jones ended up a Heisman Trophy finalist, national champion and likely first-round draft pick.

I heard NFL analyst Greg Cosell of NFL Films talking about Sarkisian’s offense while talking about Jones in the leadup to this week’s NFL Draft, and Cosell talked repeatedly about what a well-thought-out, conceptually strong offense Jones played in under Sarkisian.

Whoever wins this quarterback competition — and even the guy who will be one play away — they both are learning to operate an offense from a coach who has a history of elevating quarterback play.

Sarkisian has the distinction of being the quarterbacks coach at USC under one of his key mentors — offensive coordinator Norm Chow when Matt Cassel was a backup to Carson Palmer in 2002 and then to Matt Leinart in 2003. Despite completing only 20 of 33 passes for 192 yards with no touchdowns and one interception — in Cassel’s entire four years at USC — Cassel ended up being drafted by the New England Patriots and played 14 seasons in the NFL (reaching the Pro Bowl in 2010).

Just like quarterbacks who have played for Oklahoma coach Lincoln Riley tend to elevate and become high NFL draft picks, so do QBs who have worked under Sarkisian. That’s why you can probably feel confident Thompson, Card and the Longhorns’ offense will only get better from here.

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21 hours ago, UncleSonny said:

I’m not sure that analogy works anyway but it’s flawed from the jump if you are assuming that Thompson is on a different level as a runner compared to Card. Athletically they profile pretty similarly. 

Regardless, all evidence from his career points to Sarkisian looking for the guy that can get the ball out quickly and to the right read in the face of pressure. Not the guy who can run for his life and improvise better.

 

I am aware that Card is also very athletic, as I watched him play in person several times in HS. Based on what I have seen from them both so far, I rate Thompson a superior runner. And yes, I don’t understand Sark’s offense. Okay, I’ll go back to posting my stupid photo-compositions.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thx to TARS for this...

IT:  More from online coaching clinics

By: Eric, Gerry, and Justin

AJ Milwee explained the #AllGasNoBrakes philosophy and quarterback development. "We don't use drills like you'd see at the Elite11; all our drills are designed to help our players execute our offense."

Like Joseph, he emphasized teaching the broader concept of a play. Teach the quarterback 1) What to do 2) How to do it 3) Why it's important to do it that way.

They're looking for all the normal traits everyone else is looking for in a quarterback. Competitiveness, decision-making, accuracy, etc. Milwee did put particular emphasis on mental and physical toughness and then guys with quick hands. He mentioned multi-sport players often have quicker hands which makes a big difference in the RPO game or in getting the ball out against pressure. Athleticism and arm strength were emphasized as being important only to a certain baseline. They want guys who can make the throws the offense needs to make and who aren't totally immobile targets in the pass-rush.

While they have a thorough run game and play-action there's a lot of RPOs in the offense and Milwee went over some of the RPOs and how they give their quarterbacks as many reps as they can to master them.

”All gas no brakes means score as many points as we possibly can," Milwee said of the offensive approach to attacking defenses.

He went over some of their drills for quarterbacks and how they'll give the quarterback a normal looking drill but be telling them the concept and formation so they can practice getting their eyes to the right spots before throwing the practice toss based on an imagined progression.

Milwee would give guys a few different tools like Joseph to throw the football and talked about letting the quarterback decide if a 5-step drop and plant was more comfortable or if they needed to use a 3-step and hitch approach to help them drive the ball. Hudson Card used the former, Casey Thompson started with the 5-step but switched to the 3-step later in spring practice because it was easier for him.

Both quarterbacks were sharp in the RPO cut-ups and it didn't look like they were holding anything back from the Alabama days. They'd even give them full field RPO reads and Milwee had some clips of Hudson Card throwing RPOs to the opposite side of the mesh with the running back, often on glance routes to the boundary. He’d turn to the running back on the field side, then flip his hips all the way back to throw a glance to the opposite side of the field.

After going over their RPOs, Milwee went into depth on how they use the "mesh" route combination everyone in football loves right now. "This is great for beating man coverage but we liked it in spring against zone as well if the quarterback uses his eyes right." It's a pure progression scheme for them, they ran the play from a lot of formations but the quarterback always reads the wheel route to the running back, then the mesh, then the over route, and finally the "oh s****, shallow-sit" route which makes up the fourth read in the progression. Apparently at Alabama they never made it all the way to the shallow-sit in the progression until the playoffs on a big third down.

Both quarterbacks looked good on mesh as well. Again, most of the clips showing a quarterback getting deeper into the progression involved Hudson Card, including one where he got to the third read in the spring game for a big gain to Al’vonte Woodard.

Sadly he ran out of time before he could dive into the play-action passing play he'd prepared.

Everyone on the staff is big on teaching team concepts and drilling them carefully, it was an impressive series of clinics.

 

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I DGAF who handles QB work, so long as he's successful. Both look pretty good so far, but we haven't seen much of Card yet, and "good" fails miserably to adequately describe Casey's half+ play against Colorado. 

I'm guessing that experience counts heavily with Sark, and Casey is first up as QB1. I'd think that all the praise for Card will result in us seeing him on the field for garbage time at the very least. And if Casey struggles, there is no doubt in my mind that we'll see Card sooner rather than later.

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9 hours ago, perfectchaos007 said:

I hope fall camp separates the two but I have a bad feeling we won't know our starter until our first offensive series against ULL

I think SARK will let the competition continue all the way till start of the season -- we need both Casey and Card on the 2021 Texas roster

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I will say that seeing Card run an option with a pitch, and actually turn up field a few strides to draw the D before pitching it, warmed  the cockles of what pass for my heart. Maybe I haven't been watching closely enough, but it seems like a long time since I've seen a QB do that - not quite all the way to Slick, but seems kinda like it. I'm sure Sam did it a couple of times, but mostly, it seemed like once he took that first step upfield, the D could forget about the pitch man.

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If this goes the way I think it will, Texas fans are going to have to get used to a couple of new concepts: 1) The ideal QB will be closer to Tom Brady than Vince Young. 2) The OC will have sent the offense onto the field with the tools to beat the defense.

All those QB camps that kids go to in middle school and high school teach them how to read a defense. They teach drop technique, arm angles, throwing open a receiver, etc. Hudson Card is a star graduate of all those camps. Sark's offense comes ready to beat a given defense, and it's the QB's job to see the win on every play, and properly execute it. Three months ago, I'd have said the job was almost certainly his. Casey Thompson just looked trained for a different type of game.

However, what I've seen out of Thompson this spring and summer told me he understands Sark's vision, and is ready to marry his formidable athletic potential to a clinical understanding of the game. He's gone and found guys that play with Brady and train like Brady build that part of his game. When the pads come on, I expect he'll be very difficult to dismiss.

 

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15 minutes ago, GoldAppleCorps said:

If this goes the way I think it will, Texas fans are going to have to get used to a couple of new concepts: 1) The ideal QB will be closer to Tom Brady than Vince Young. 2) The OC will have sent the offense onto the field with the tools to beat the defense.

All those QB camps that kids go to in middle school and high school teach them how to read a defense. They teach drop technique, arm angles, throwing open a receiver, etc. Hudson Card is a star graduate of all those camps. Sark's offense comes ready to beat a given defense, and it's the QB's job to see the win on every play, and properly execute it. Three months ago, I'd have said the job was almost certainly his. Casey Thompson just looked trained for a different type of game.

However, what I've seen out of Thompson this spring and summer told me he understands Sark's vision, and is ready to marry his formidable athletic potential to a clinical understanding of the game. He's gone and found guys that play with Brady and train like Brady build that part of his game. When the pads come on, I expect he'll be very difficult to dismiss.

 

I think both guys would start for many P5 programs this year so I'm really not concerned with the qb position. 

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Card will be a tough guy to hold off, Casey has had a hell of an off-season though. I think the talent differential is exaggerated, they’re both dynamic prospects with unique ability. My money is on Thompson leading the huddle week 1 in a sold out DKR.

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