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7 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

And why don't they want to go to work? Is it, and I'm just spitballing here, because they are afraid of getting sick during a fucking pandemic? How in the blue fuck is that an ulterior motive? Maybe you could convince me that it is irrational (or at least not rational based on current evidence). But it still isn't an "ulterior" or wrongful motive. What is wrongful is attempt to cast it as such. So go fuck yourself. 

It's not my job to make your smarter or more knowledgeable.  There is ample evidence out there that schools are safe - go find it yourself.  Is the risk Zero?  Of course not.  But you are an emotional child completely untethered to reality if Zero risk is the goal.

If you still believe that schools are a main source of spread after a year, there's nothing that will convince you and others on Team Apocolypse otherwise.

In the meantime, kids (primarily minority kids in the big cities) will continue to languish without any learning for no reason while wealthy kids enjoy private schools, charter schools, learning pods, and uninterrupted internet access.  Sounds pretty systemically racist to me.

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11 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

Now, separately, overt racism does still exist. When it occurs, it should be pointed out and derided, including by you. If you (the royal you) feel attacked when an actual racist is called racist, then perhaps you need to take a long look in the mirror. 

Overt racism should be rightly be publicized and squashed.  (Being in a mixed-race marriage and as an ethnic minority in every country we’ve lived, we’re not un-attuned to this stuff?).


In cases of overwhelmingly color-blind processes (e.g. mortgage lending), if you (the royal you) insist on ascribing race to differences in outcome, then perhaps you need to look in the mirror...

 

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1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

It's not my job to make your smarter or more knowledgeable.  There is ample evidence out there that schools are safe - go find it yourself.  Is the risk Zero?  Of course not.  But you are an emotional child completely untethered to reality if Zero risk is the goal.

If you still believe that schools are a main source of spread after a year, there's nothing that will convince you and others on Team Apocolypse otherwise.

In the meantime, kids (primarily minority kids in the big cities) will continue to languish without any learning for no reason while wealthy kids enjoy private schools, charter schools, learning pods, and uninterrupted internet access.  Sounds pretty systemically racist to me.

I didn't say I believed that. In fact, I said I could be convinced the fear is irrational based on existing evidence. Although, saying school's aren't source of substantial spread doesn't mean that the teachers of those schools arent subject to an elevated risk. And it certainly doesn't make it an ulterior or wrongful motive. 

1 hour ago, 52-80 said:

Overt racism should be rightly be publicized and squashed.  (Being in a mixed-race marriage and as an ethnic minority in every country we’ve lived, we’re not un-attuned to this stuff?).


In cases of overwhelmingly color-blind processes (e.g. mortgage lending), if you (the royal you) insist on ascribing race to differences in outcome, then perhaps you need to look in the mirror...

 

I'm not ascribing race to anything. I'm pointing at the objective fact that after controlling for other factors, race is still associated with a differential in treatment. I'm sorry that upsets you. It should. It sucks. Let's fix it. 

Edited by Dahobbs
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1 hour ago, Message Board User said:

It's not my job to make your smarter or more knowledgeable.  There is ample evidence out there that schools are safe - go find it yourself.  Is the risk Zero?  Of course not.  But you are an emotional child completely untethered to reality if Zero risk is the goal.

If you still believe that schools are a main source of spread after a year, there's nothing that will convince you and others on Team Apocolypse otherwise.

In the meantime, kids (primarily minority kids in the big cities) will continue to languish without any learning for no reason while wealthy kids enjoy private schools, charter schools, learning pods, and uninterrupted internet access.  Sounds pretty systemically racist to me.

The disconnect is the teachers do not want to be forced into a situation where they might die, however infinitesimal that might be. Schools are safe, the science says there’s not much spread. But as you yourself stated, the risk is not zero. You’re arguing to force people to do something? Because the kids will be affected? 

Will you force people to get vaccines? 

The point is, yes, schools should be open, if teachers don’t want to teach yet, then let them stay at home, hire other people, but you are accosting people for making a personal safety decision. 

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4 hours ago, Dahobbs said:

That's your problem. You think discussing a problem is an "terse accusation" aimed at you. It isn't. Systemic racism isn't generally about overt or even conscious racism. No one person is at fault. You aren't being accused of doing anything wrong. But, the fact remains that problem exists and has an observable effect on society. The first step to addressing the problem is recognizing it. I've discussed earlier that part of the solution is criminal justice reform, particularly avoiding the creation another generation if black children without available father figures. I don't know enough about the lending system to know what specific aspects of that system need reform, if any. 

is this what all those woke people call white fragility

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48 minutes ago, Celery Man said:

is this what all those woke people call white fragility

Who knows.  I don’t think it’s any more fragile than posters continually shrieking for a year because someone isn’t gung ho to man their socialized daycare.  

Edited by Judge Roybeanbag
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4 hours ago, Message Board User said:

Sounds pretty systemically racist to me.

Not every disparate outcome is the result of systemic racism.  

For example, COVID regulations regarding opening or not opening schools aren't racist.

But there are inequalities in schools that are a result of past systemic racism and its artifacts in the form of white flight and related phenomena, and when something extraordinary like COVID occurs, the ill effects on racial minorities will be disproportionate.

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44 minutes ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

Who knows.  I don’t think it’s any more fragile than posters continually shrieking for a year because someone isn’t gung ho to man their socialized daycare.  

and guess who not manning the "socialized daycare"(which by the way has been part of the country for over 100 years, not some new phenomena) affects the most?

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3 minutes ago, dcar00 said:

and guess who not manning the "socialized daycare"(which by the way has been part of the country for over 100 years, not some new phenomena) affects the most?

The people who rely on it the most.  Probably disproportionately minority populations.  Maybe we should have a draft for teachers, to go fight that war for us.  

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3 hours ago, Judge Roybeanbag said:

The people who rely on it the most.  Probably disproportionately minority populations.  Maybe we should have a draft for teachers, to go fight that war for us.  

Didn't mean to bring you in, but oh well. 

3 hours ago, dcar00 said:

and guess who not manning the "socialized daycare"(which by the way has been part of the country for over 100 years, not some new phenomena) affects the most?

I'd be okay to never have people go back to socialized schools. 

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7 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Didn't mean to bring you in, but oh well. 

I'd be okay to never have people go back to socialized schools. 

Of course you would, Tiny Devos. Eliminate schools altogether, it creates more uneducated and easily manipulated hordes to join your fascist cause. Next you’ll tell us you’d be perfectly happy to re-segregate races because, hey, we just don’t get along and would be happier. 

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8 hours ago, workswithseed said:

Didn't mean to bring you in, but oh well. 

I'd be okay to never have people go back to socialized schools. 

Yeah lets listen to the incel with no kids on how we should school our kids. Brilliant.

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1 hour ago, SydneyCarton said:

Of course you would, Tiny Devos. Eliminate schools altogether, it creates more uneducated and easily manipulated hordes to join your fascist cause. 

Dude don't even try that. If democrats were actually interested in teaching  they'd take a different tack than what they've been trying for decades now.  As it is because they get support from the teachers unions status quo is just fine with them.  They aren't gonna rock that boat, and lose votes and dollars.

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5 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

Dude don't even try that. If democrats were actually interested in teaching  they'd take a different tack than what they've been trying for decades now.  As it is because they get support from the teachers unions status quo is just fine with them.  They aren't gonna rock that boat, and lose votes and dollars.

Listen, I’ve avoided you and your posts to this point, as a courtesy. If you want that to stop, by all means I’ll be happy to engage you. 
 

nice false illustration. It fails for two reasons. The “they don’t care about it narrative,” even if it were true which I’m not conceding at all, doesn’t address that the status quo is still better than Betsy devos and the Republican Party actively trying to make it worse. Is your status quo daily life the same as someone putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger? 
 

Second, your proposal here is that the actual teachers and their union telling you their preferred politicians acting in their best interests just dont know what they’re doing and are wrong? Ok. 
 

finally, your post had literally nothing to fucking do with my comment to Tiny Hitler, who’s happy to see the erosion of education and public schooling continue. Feel free to source any and all of the significant strides and the wide support Devos’s policies have with educators. Or just go ahead and fuck off

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3 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Listen, I’ve avoided you and your posts to this point, as a courtesy. If you want that to stop, by all means I’ll be happy to engage you. 
 

nice false illustration. It fails for two reasons. The “they don’t care about it narrative,” even if it were true which I’m not conceding at all, doesn’t address that the status quo is still better than Betsy devos and the Republican Party actively trying to make it worse. Is your status quo daily life the same as someone putting a gun to your head and pulling the trigger? 
 

Second, your proposal here is that the actual teachers and their union telling you their preferred politicians acting in their best interests just dont know what they’re doing and are wrong? Ok. 
 

finally, your post had literally nothing to fucking do with my comment to Tiny Hitler, who’s happy to see the erosion of education and public schooling continue. Feel free to source any and all of the significant strides and the wide support Devos’s policies have with educators. Or just go ahead and fuck off

The status quo in so many cities (the majority being democrat held) is crumbling schools, and falling graduation rates. Our capitol city run by democrats wanted to spend hundreds of millions on a sports arena (and a token amount on the school system) when the city schools were literally falling on kids heads, with less than 75% graduation rates, and the highest salaries for school admins anywhere in the state.

You wanna make blanket statements about what all republicans want when the physical evidence of what cities have become under long time democrat admins is staring everyone in the face.

A city or county that's been democrat held for decades, where the schools continue to get worse, Is that a dem. issue our a republican issue?  

Fuck Betty Devos. She doesn't represent everyone who considers themselves republican/ conservative.

Teachers unions act in their best interests at the cost of the best interests of students.  They have been firmly in the democrat camp for many decades. What have democrats done to improve the situation (other than say we need more tax dollars) or force the unions to adopt better policies  ?  

It's so much more complex than just democrat vs. republican, but that's what it gets turned into here. That get's so lame, the us vs. them card played to great effect here.

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You guys bring up an interesting subject.  It seems that we could have simply hired replacement teachers as if it the teachers who didn't want to come in were engaged in an unfair labor practice strike (as opposed to economic strike).  The teachers who want to sit this out would have the right to reinstatement.

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Just now, Onboard 2.0 said:

The status quo in so many cities (the majority being democrat held) is crumbling schools, and falling graduation rates. Our capitol city run by democrats wanted to spend hundreds of millions on a sports arena (and a token amount on the school system) when the city schools were literally falling on kids heads, with less than 75% graduation rates, and the highest salaries for school admins anywhere in the state.

You wanna make blanket statements about what all republicans want when the physical evidence of what cities have become under long time democrat admins is staring everyone in the face.

A city or county that's been democrat held for decades, where the schools continue to get worse, Is that a dem. issue our a republican issue?  

Fuck Betty Devos. She doesn't represent everyone who considers themselves republican/ conservative.

Teachers unions act in their best interests at the cost of the best interests of students.  They have been firmly in the democrat camp for many decades. What have democrats done to improve the situation (other than say we need more tax dollars) or force the unions to adopt better policies  ?  

It's so much more complex than just democrat vs. republican, but that's what it gets turned into here. That get's so lame, the us vs. them card played to great effect here.

Are you seriously attempting to say that cities control school funding ahead of state and legislatorial and even federal mandates? Just like what happens when Harris county tells abbot to fuck off about mask mandates right? 
 

and let me be real fucking clear. I wasn’t making any blanket statements in my OP, I was making a very specific statement to one fucking poster. So take that shit outta here.

yes, it’s a very complex issue. And school boards and and systems have been full of corruption and embezzlement since time immemorial. But it’s hilarious for you to tell me to not paint all republicans with the same brush, while you paint all teachers with a brush of “fuck the kids I care only about me.”

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19 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

Are you seriously attempting to say that cities control school funding ahead of state and legislatorial and even federal mandates? Just like what happens when Harris county tells abbot to fuck off about mask mandates right? 
 

and let me be real fucking clear. I wasn’t making any blanket statements in my OP, I was making a very specific statement to one fucking poster. So take that shit outta here.

yes, it’s a very complex issue. And school boards and and systems have been full of corruption and embezzlement since time immemorial. But it’s hilarious for you to tell me to not paint all republicans with the same brush, while you paint all teachers with a brush of “fuck the kids I care only about me.”

School systems are funded locally, in Va. at least (the majority of funding).  My initial comment to you was in response to what seemed like just another lame "republicans are bad democrats are good post" that has its own life here.  The democrat held city here wanted to spend huge dollars on a new sports arena, and spent a million or so on a study to that end, but has left the failing schools to continue failing.  How would you call that a support of education, and student interests ?

You ignore the fact that so many failing systems are in long time democrat held enclaves, that have millions at their disposal. So who is to blame for that long time slide into failure ?  The party in power or the party not in control.  I'm not making blanket statements about all teachers, I'm calling out the lockstep union support they and democrats share with one another thru donations, and block voting '9and unions do influence their members voting), but never seem to make things better.  Why is that ? 

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2 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Of course you would, Tiny Devos. Eliminate schools altogether, it creates more uneducated and easily manipulated hordes to join your fascist cause. Next you’ll tell us you’d be perfectly happy to re-segregate races because, hey, we just don’t get along and would be happier. 

the democrat party is doing just fine handling this.

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4 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotHollywoodColt said:

“THE US VERSUS THEM CARD IS SO LAME BUT IT’S DEFINITELY THEM AND NOT US!”

No it happens from both camps, I can be as guilty of it as anyone at times. Selective plucking of facts, and ignoring of facts goes on daily.  

Someone show me the glowing records of success of school systems in long time democrats held cites with huge sums of money at their disposal (when they want it for their pet projects) (to at least build schools that are in good working order).

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Anyone trying to lay blame for any failing of the public school system in urban cities on any one thing doesn’t have the bandwidth to understand dynamic problems. 

poverty, drugs, systemic racism, culture, white flight, safety, nuclear family, etc. 

You can’t just sprinkle money dust on the problem and it goes away. 
 

Also, there are companies out there with some of the most highly educated, well paid people, and all the capital you could dream of, and the company sucks and is poorly run. Competent well run things are hard. 

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10 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

School systems are funded locally, in Va. at least (the majority of funding).  My initial comment to you was in response to what seemed like just another lame "republicans are bad democrats are good post" that has its own life here.  The democrat held city here wanted to spend huge dollars on a new sports arena, and spent a million or so on a study to that end, but has left the failing schools to continue failing.  How would you call that a support of education, and student interests ?

You ignore the fact that so many failing systems are in long time democrat held enclaves, that have millions at their disposal. So who is to blame for that long time slide into failure ?  The party in power or the party not in control.  I'm not making blanket statements about all teachers, I'm calling out the lockstep union support they and democrats share with one another thru donations, and block voting '9and unions do influence their members voting), but never seem to make things better.  Why is that ? 

The same way its done in Texas? Where they pass a bond where the parents pay for the stadium via taxes/bonds while not having to address any of the issues with educational funding? Wait, are you talking about an actual pro sports arena? And you’re comparing that to education at a local level? Please tell me you at least meant a HS arena. 
 

you’re in VA? Until very recently a red state. So I’d say they’ve been in control for the majority of the slide. I’m in Texas. Where red has been in control at every level for I dunno, let’s say 100% of the last 20-30 or so years. So where are you suggesting I direct my blame? The cities are overruled by state rules. You know that right?

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The status quo in so many cities (the majority being democrat held) is crumbling schools, and falling graduation rates. Our capitol city run by democrats wanted to spend hundreds of millions on a sports arena (and a token amount on the school system) when the city schools were literally falling on kids heads, with less than 75% graduation rates, and the highest salaries for school admins anywhere in the state.
You wanna make blanket statements about what all republicans want when the physical evidence of what cities have become under long time democrat admins is staring everyone in the face.
A city or county that's been democrat held for decades, where the schools continue to get worse, Is that a dem. issue our a republican issue?  
Fuck Betty Devos. She doesn't represent everyone who considers themselves republican/ conservative.
Teachers unions act in their best interests at the cost of the best interests of students.  They have been firmly in the democrat camp for many decades. What have democrats done to improve the situation (other than say we need more tax dollars) or force the unions to adopt better policies  ?  
It's so much more complex than just democrat vs. republican, but that's what it gets turned into here. That get's so lame, the us vs. them card played to great effect here.

So it is not a Democratic Party vs. Republican Party issue but it is all the Democratic Party’s fault. And you take no responsibility at all for the Republican Party members you voted for, appointments.

And again what is the proof that our schools are failing in the first place?
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6 minutes ago, SydneyCarton said:

The same way its done in Texas? Where they pass a bond where the parents pay for the stadium via taxes/bonds while not having to address any of the issues with educational funding? Wait, are you talking about an actual pro sports arena? And you’re comparing that to education at a local level? Please tell me you at least meant a HS arena. 
 

you’re in VA? Until very recently a red state. So I’d say they’ve been in control for the majority of the slide. I’m in Texas. Where red has been in control at every level for I dunno, let’s say 100% of the last 20-30 or so years. So where are you suggesting I direct my blame? The cities are overruled by state rules. You know that right?

Richmond has been democrat held for 50 plus years, it was a city run sports arena. It wouldn't matter if it were HS or not. The cities gov't deemed a sports arena a more pressing issue than a school system that has the lowest graduation rate in the state, and the highest cost to operate that system. The state only requires min. funding levels like any state does, red or blue.

Any school system that puts sports above the educational mandate is immoral, and unethical.  I could not care less which party controls a state house or regional local/gov't, but do your fucking job, and stop playing to your party.

 

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2 minutes ago, Nivek said:


So it is not a Democratic Party vs. Republican Party issue but it is all the Democratic Party’s fault. And you take no responsibility at all for the Republican Party members you voted for, appointments.

And again what is the proof that our schools are failing in the first place?

I'm citing a Va. example of a city with 76% graduation rate, the lowest in the state, and the city gov't running that school system wanted to spend on a sports arena, not address the school problem.

Again my comment goes back to the false notion that democrats care about education more than republicans.  Sydney made that comment "Eliminate schools altogether, it creates more uneducated and easily manipulated hordes to join your fascist cause." and that's what I responded to that's what this comes down to. One party allegedly wanting to keep a population illiterate, and ignorant.

 

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4 minutes ago, Nivek said:

So cities are now in charge of education?

Schools are funded locally in Va. at the county or city level. They are their own funding entity, they're not part of counties because we are a commonwealth (that's part of the distinction of being a commonwealth). So cities are stand alone funding entities for the most part.

When a city that's responsible for the funding of all its municipal responsibilities picks a sports arena over a failing school system that is at least anecdotally a city choosing to ignore its childrens education, yes or no ? That seems to shows the party in control cares less about an educated population, and more about a possible revenue gain or a mayors name on a building.  How does that not counter Sydney's comment that republicans don't care, and democrats do  ? 

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I'm citing a Va. example of a city with 76% graduation rate, the lowest in the state, and the city gov't running that school system wanted to spend on a sports arena, not address the school problem.
Again my comment goes back to the false notion that democrats care about education more than republicans.  Sydney made that comment "Eliminate schools altogether, it creates more uneducated and easily manipulated hordes to join your fascist cause." and that's what I responded to that's what this comes down to. One party allegedly wanting to keep a population illiterate, and ignorant.
 

I believe that was a snarky comment directed at one of the many idiotic statement by workswithseed. Not intended as a discussion point.
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11 minutes ago, Nivek said:


I believe that was a snarky comment directed at one of the many idiotic statement by workswithseed. Not intended as a discussion point.

Ohh ok so snarky comments about one party here are to be ignored (was it snarky ?  sounded pretty matter of fact, that's the way it is to me)  ?  If I made a  comment about democrats not really caring about education, it would be just ignored ?  Cause see I did do that, and Sydney, and you came right back to me saying "nuhh uhhh, we caaaaare, yer the you old dumbhead, republican, meany head...  snarky enough for ya ?

 

I guess we need disclaimers here ??:  This is a snarky comment ignore, ignore, ignore....

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Schools are funded locally in Va. at the county or city level. They are their own funding entity, they're not part of counties because we are a commonwealth (that's part of the distinction of being a commonwealth). So cities are stand alone funding entities for the most part.
When a city that's responsible for the funding of all its municipal responsibilities picks a sports arena over a failing school system that is at least anecdotally a city choosing to ignore its childrens education, yes or no ? That seems to shows the party in control cares less about an educated population, and more about a possible revenue gain or a mayors name on a building.  How does that not counter Sydney's comment that republicans don't care, and democrats do  ? 

Fund raising is locally but how is the spending controlled? Are there Robinhood like plans in place? What percentage is raised locally?

Didn’t Oklahoma have to resort to
Onto the sports arena? Why did they choose to fund it? Was it sold to provide investment into the local community and increase travel and local services? Can it actually raise more money or will it be corrupted like so many investments. Are there plans to make it work for the benefit of the community at large?

These are all complicated issues. Just pointing it out that the D’s run a region with poor schools in one district is not teaching us anything.

Secondly, from the other thread I cited multiple studies from religious-students vs. secular-students (poorly worded admittedly), and several other studies which seem to demonstrate that education success is closely tied to wealth more than any other factor including politics, race, gender, etc.

What decision would you make then knowing this? Would you just toss money at the school? Or try to invest in the economy hoping it will improve the wealth of the community? Or something else?

Happy Easter. Time for me to deal with sugared up rascals.
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4 minutes ago, Nivek said:


Fund raising is locally but how is the spending controlled? Are there Robinhood like plans in place? What percentage is raised locally?

Didn’t Oklahoma have to resort to
Onto the sports arena? Why did they choose to fund it? Was it sold to provide investment into the local community and increase travel and local services? Can it actually raise more money or will it be corrupted like so many investments. Are there plans to make it work for the benefit of the community at large?

These are all complicated issues. Just pointing it out that the D’s run a region with poor schools in one district is not teaching us anything.

Secondly, from the other thread I cited multiple studies from religious-students vs. secular-students (poorly worded admittedly), and several other studies which seem to demonstrate that education success is closely tied to wealth more than any other factor including politics, race, gender, etc.

What decision would you make then knowing this? Would you just toss money at the school? Or try to invest in the economy hoping it will improve the wealth of the community? Or something else?

Happy Easter. Time for me to deal with sugared up rascals.

Controlled locally.

It's not just one district, and you know that.  It's a national problem with lots of complex issues related.

Yes, wealth plays a huge factor, we are in lockstep on that.  

I'd at least try to create facilities that are conducive to learning, and show them they have a value as students.  Just make the buildings safe for habitation would be a start.  I'd look very hard at why we have the highest paid admins, but the lowest success rate.

Yes, Happy Easter. Enjoy that time with the "rascals".  It's precious, fleeting time.

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4 hours ago, SydneyCarton said:

Of course you would, Tiny Devos. Eliminate schools altogether, it creates more uneducated and easily manipulated hordes to join your fascist cause. Next you’ll tell us you’d be perfectly happy to re-segregate races because, hey, we just don’t get along and would be happier. 

Hey, those kids can just learn everything from YouTube videos like he does. 

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17 minutes ago, mdmost said:

Hey, those kids can just learn everything from YouTube videos like he does. 

I think if you look around the country, people are saying open the schools back up, not keep them closed. I'd imagine that group swings to both sides of the aisle.

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On 3/30/2021 at 3:42 PM, Newdoc said:

Cops killed =  “shrug”. Anyone killed by cop = “jump to conclusions” headlines for two to three media cycles. Even more so if riots ensue.

Coverage based on msm slant. Fox for the former although the trooper ambush isn’t as juicy as kids in cages. 

When a psycho kills someone, including cops, I might get angry, or heartsick, but I don’t feel as personally liable as I do when police kill unarmed or mentally ill people.

 

And, I do not agree with those here who think a 13, or 15, year old should be treated as an adult. Even when they carjack and kill.

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1 hour ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

In the spirit of Easter, I hope a large rock covering a tomb rolls over your fucking foot.

What a randomly fucked up comment after I made a joke with another poster. Were you that offended by being associated with a "sugared up rascal?"

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44 minutes ago, Dahobbs said:

What a randomly fucked up comment after I made a joke with another poster. Were you that offended by being associated with a "sugared up rascal?"

And you weren't making one of those "snarky, no need to comment comments " ?

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19 minutes ago, Onboard 2.0 said:

And you weren't making one of those "snarky, no need to comment comments " ?

Again, did you take "sugared up rascal" to be a serious insult? It definitely wasn't intended that way. Snarky, sure. But also light hearted. Just a strange thing to take seriously.

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